288 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumikki]

Made Nightwing wrote...

No. What we've learned is that she's a good, capable NCO with over eight years of experience. If Captain Kirrahe dies, Ashley takes over the Salarian team and successfully leads them to complete their objective, despite heavy resistance.

Yes, but there is more than been able to finish the jobs, even if it's one of the most important feature. Problem with Asley is the judgement calls, when she has to make decisions. She doesn't really think through her decisions, she make them based fear and emotions. What cause her to make hasty conclusions.

[Lumikki]

Thiev wrote...

Lumikki wrote...
I never sayed Specter has to be diplomatic, but it's better if Specter is, because then situations can be solved with less violence.

There are different Spectres for different types of job, some may even act borderline of terrorism if the situation demands it (as long as they won't get caught in the act).

True that if situation demands it, but violence should not be first solution, it should be solution when situtions demands it, like you self sayed, because there isn't any better solution. So, it's also question did the Specter even try to find/think better solution or is violence then only solution to everyting.

Modifié par Lumikki, 19 juin 2011 - 12:24 .

[atheelogos]

Lumikki wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

because she was more the type shoot first ask question later.

There are many different kind of Spectres. Just look at Saren. He was open in his hatred of humans and killed people when he didn't have to and the Council still adored him.

Yes, but when Specter is acting behave all races, Specter should respect all races rights, not shoot others in sight because fear of what they can do later.

PS: Saren isn't good example, remember what he did.. But you are right, there is alot of different kind of specters.

Saren is the perfect example because he was ruthless before his indoctrination.

[Dragoncloud]

My problem with it is that somehow there suddenly is another human spectre, whereas Shepard him/herself was already a tough one to put into that position, I just don't see the other councilors being very happy about putting another human in so soon after the first one, especially since the first one more or nearly got everyone killed with sovereign. A human special ops person, yes, a spectre no, i just can't see the VS at a level on par with other spectres. (and its pretty silly that all they have going for them is what, less then a few weeks/months under shepards tutelage.)

[atheelogos]

Lumikki wrote...

Thiev wrote...

Lumikki wrote...
I never sayed Specter has to be diplomatic, but it's better if Specter is, because then situations can be solved with less violence.

There are different Spectres for different types of job, some may even act borderline of terrorism if the situation demands it (as long as they won't get caught in the act).

True that if situation demands it, but violence should not be first solution, it should be solution when situtions demands it

dude if a Spectre is involved then all other options have already been exhausted. I'm pretty sure they've said this before in ME1. Spectres are not the first option the Counci usually considers. They try peacful means first.

In short the Council sends them in to fix problems with force. Thats why they hire soldiers and not diplomats. I mean really name one mission the Council sends you on where you don't kill anyone...

Modifié par atheelogos, 19 juin 2011 - 12:36 .

[Lumikki]

atheelogos wrote...

Saren is the perfect example because he was ruthless before his indoctrination.

If you mean as what Asley can become, sure it's allmost perfect example, even if I don't think Asley is quite as rutless than Saren was. But where did this path lead as not thinking consequences as how you do something?

Modifié par Lumikki, 19 juin 2011 - 12:38 .

[atheelogos]

Dragoncloud wrote...

My problem with it is that somehow there suddenly is another human spectre, whereas Shepard him/herself was already a tough one to put into that position, I just don't see the other councilors being very happy about putting another human in so soon after the first one, especially since the first one more or nearly got everyone killed with sovereign. A human special ops person, yes, a spectre no, i just can't see the VS at a level on par with other spectres. (and its pretty silly that all they have going for them is what, less then a few weeks/months under shepards tutelage.)

It was hard for Shep because the Turians keep us out for as long as they could. For other human Spectres it will be easier since we now sit on the Council, and in some playthroughs we lead it.

[atheelogos]

Lumikki wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Saren is the perfect example because he was ruthless before his indoctrination.

If you mean as what Asley can become, sure it's allmost perfect example, even if I don't think Asley is quite as rutless than Saren was. But where did this path lead as not thing consequences as how you do something?

I'm surprised you think Ash is ruthless at all.

[Lumikki]

atheelogos wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Saren is the perfect example because he was ruthless before his indoctrination.

If you mean as what Asley can become, sure it's allmost perfect example, even if I don't think Asley is quite as rutless than Saren was. But where did this path lead as not thing consequences as how you do something?

I'm surprised you think Ash is ruthless at all.

I ques it's because she seem to solve problems with guns. How ever as personality, I don't think she is blood thirsty, more like she don't allways think situation from all angles and use the easyest solution.

Modifié par Lumikki, 19 juin 2011 - 12:45 .

[Siven80]

LeVaughnX wrote...

Alright slow down a second; I know I might be getting ahead of myself but I read (in Phaedon's Blog) that it's been confermed that the VS is a Spectre....I don't really see this as true for multiple reasons... I'll get them out of the way...

...RANT...
So mature comments only please

So you didnt like them or seem to talk to them in ME1 and got ashely to change her views (and she wasnt racist to begin with).

Ok, but the rant was just stupid and immature.

[LPPrince]

atheelogos wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

First off, the Spectre thing hasn't been confirmed. Its still just a rumor, albeit a rumor based on what we know thus far.

And I didn't get too far into your post and I apologize for that, but the moment I saw "racist" and "xenophobe" as factual remarks for Ash, I knew that it was best if I didn't continue reading.

Sorry about that.

I'm pretty sure its been confirmed with screen shots. You have seen Ashley with the Spectre logo on her new armor right? I doubt Bioware would put that on her without a reason.

No, I know about the screenshots. Hell, I believe they ARE Spectres.

But since it hasn't been stated as fact by the devs, I'm holding it as a rumor. Plus, a lot of things change over time.

I'm sure them being Spectres won't, but there you go.

[Dean_the_Young]

sevach wrote...

azerSheppard wrote...

Ash was not a racist, I do agree that at first she was xenophobic, but later in the game she really opened up. Also Pressley was xenophobic at first, but in the normandy crash site he made me cryu

Very late in the game she was saying and i quote.

"You can't risk human lives trying to save the council, what have they ever done for us???"


So yeah kind of a racist.

Uh, no. Not unless she wanted to leave the Council to burn because it was made up of aliens and not because, say, it was another organization with self-interest that had long contradicted and opposed the Alliance.

You can oppose a group on grounds other than the composition of the group, you know.

[Lumikki]

Wearing Specter armor doens't make someone specter. In ME1 hole my squad was wearing Specter armors.

[Dean_the_Young]

AquamanOS wrote...

Ashley only supports saving the Council if you convinced her to be more trusting of aliens during the many conversations with her. I don't remember the entire tree but it ends with her saying something like "Huh, I guess I never thought of it like that."

Kaidan's an opposite option where you can convince him to put humanity first. That's the only way to get him to support not saving the council.

Or put someone more paragon/renegade then them in the squad. Wrex and (Renegade) Garrus generally outweigh Renegade Ashley, just as Liara and (Paragon) Garrus generally outweigh Paragon Kaiden. It's only when you switch their alignment that they become all they can be.

[Dean_the_Young]

Lumikki wrote...

Wearing Specter armor doens't make someone specter. In ME1 hole my squad was wearing Specter armors.

Wearing Spectre armor doens't make someone a Spectre. Wearing a Spectre sigil generally denotes someone as Spectre... something that wasn't on the ME1 Spectre armors.

[Antivenger]

Lumikki wrote...

Yes, but there is more than been able to finish the jobs, even if it's one of the most important feature. Problem with Asley is the judgement calls, when she has to make decisions. She doesn't really think through her decisions, she make them based fear and emotions. What cause her to make hasty conclusions.

Where did you get that impression?

Lumikki wrote...

Wearing Specter armor doens't make someone specter. In ME1 hole my squad was wearing Specter armors.

SpecTRe armour doesn't exist. What are you talking about?

EDIT: Dean mentions the symbol, so yeah they're SpecTRe. I still don't know about the existence of SpecTRe armour, though. Can anyone link it from the wiki or something?

Modifié par Antivenger, 19 juin 2011 - 01:05 .

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Lumikki wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Saren is the perfect example because he was ruthless before his indoctrination.

If you mean as what Asley can become, sure it's allmost perfect example, even if I don't think Asley is quite as rutless than Saren was. But where did this path lead as not thinking consequences as how you do something?

Um, pretty sure they were talking about BEFORE he became.... INDOCTRINATED. He didn't turn into a baddie b/c he was a ruthless spectre. *facepalm*

[Lumikki]

Antivenger wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Yes, but there is more than been able to finish the jobs, even if it's one of the most important feature. Problem with Asley is the judgement calls, when she has to make decisions. She doesn't really think through her decisions, she make them based fear and emotions. What cause her to make hasty conclusions.

Where did you get that impression?

Examples:
 -ME1 Rachni queen situation.
- ME2 when met in Horizon

Lumikki wrote...

Wearing Specter armor doens't make someone specter. In ME1 hole my squad was wearing Specter armors.

SpecTRe armour doesn't exist. What are you talking about?

EDIT: Dean mentions the symbol, so yeah they're SpecTRe. I still don't know about the existence of SpecTRe armour, though. Can anyone link it from the wiki or something?

If so, then it's my mistake. I was thinking the armor what I buyed from Spectre shop in ME1 as final best armor, what was it's name, Colossus.

Modifié par Lumikki, 19 juin 2011 - 01:19 .

[atheelogos]

LPPrince wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

First off, the Spectre thing hasn't been confirmed. Its still just a rumor, albeit a rumor based on what we know thus far.

And I didn't get too far into your post and I apologize for that, but the moment I saw "racist" and "xenophobe" as factual remarks for Ash, I knew that it was best if I didn't continue reading.

Sorry about that.

I'm pretty sure its been confirmed with screen shots. You have seen Ashley with the Spectre logo on her new armor right? I doubt Bioware would put that on her without a reason.

No, I know about the screenshots. Hell, I believe they ARE Spectres.

But since it hasn't been stated as fact by the devs, I'm holding it as a rumor. Plus, a lot of things change over time.

I'm sure them being Spectres won't, but there you go.

I feel ya^_^

[ashlover mark 2]

LeVaughnX wrote...

Alright slow down a second; I know I might be getting ahead of myself but I read (in Phaedon's Blog) that it's been confermed that the VS is a Spectre....I don't really see this as true for multiple reasons... I'll get them out of the way...

-----
Ashley

1.) Is a racist.

2.) Is a xenophobe.

3.) Was completely incapable of handling two Geth in Mass Effect 1.

4.) Showed no ability to lead or command respect other than being a wannabe "Ripley".

5.) Is overly Emotional.
-----
Kaiden

1.) Is easily bothered.

2.) Is overly Emotional but to a lesser degree as Ashley.

3.) Didn't really care for the council but he wasn't a racist.

4.) Argued a little with authority?
-----
Both

1.) Couldn't handle their jobs alone in Mass Effect 1 causing the other to die; where as Shepard basically is a one man army.

2.) Neither over-came over-whelming odds.

3.) Both screwed up on Horizon (sp?).

4.) Neither seemingly collected any rational data on Horizon.

5.) Neither are capable of rational thought or logic.
-----

Now there is also one major thing that bothered me about this... They've said already that a "Luke I am your Father" type twist is going to be in the game...Well my guess is that the VS (considering the Collectors/Reapers basically left them on Horizon but took nearly everyone else) has been secretly implanted with some form of control device or implanted with some cyborgnetics in general by the Collectors and or Reapers during their time in Stasis on Horizon. So if its true that they are a Spectre (but neither really deserves it above anyone else...Zaeed should be the second Human Spectre if anything hah) then this could be the big twist.

In any-case; what do you guys think about this information? What are your opinions? I'm not looking for a rage-war or a flame-war; though the fanboys will start something I'm sure.

So mature comments only please

WOW......this is just....wow. *sigh* ok,here we go.

1. ash is not a rascist.never once in the entire game dose ash say she dose not like aliens beacuse they are aliens.she may find them weird looking and odd but thats beacuse before eden prime and meeting shepard she had never seen or meet any.

on virmire ash dose not kill wrex beacuse he is a krogan and she dosnt like him,ash kills wrex beacuse he is a tank with a shotgun pointed at her commander (and possible boy friend) not to mention shepard tells ash "be ready" which pretty much says to me "hey watch my back if i get into trouble with this guy help me out".
id say a pissed off krogan battlemaster fireing shotgun blasts into the water,is pretty damn dangerous.
not to mention during that same mission if you send williams with the salarian STG team ash clearly says that she is uncomfortable working under someone elses command and that she has gotten used to working with shepard and his team including the aliens.

onboard the normandy when ash tells shepard that she dosnt think that garrus and wrex should be allowed into vital and restricted systems,isnt out of racism its because she dosnt KNOW these ppl.shepard lets random ppl who he litarly picked up off the street onto the most advanced warship in the galaxy and lets them poke around where ever they like.she dosnt know if she can trust these ppl not to run off and betray their trust in any number of ways,shes only known them for like 3 days maybe more.in the end all she did was voice a concern about a possible security risk and BLATANT security breach.

2. now onto xenophobia,ash dose NOT HAVE A IRRATIONAL FEAR OF ALIENS! she is not affraid that humanity will lose itself by intergrating into the council nor dose she say that humanity should go it alone and screw the rest of the alien races,nor dose she belive that humans are surperior.

ash has a cynical view that alot ppl tend to have even in todays society.she belives that the council will always do whats best for itself and if the alliance ever needs there help in a dire situation the council will not come to the rescue.thats not a racist view or a xenophobic view its the view of a patriotic soldier who wants whats best for her ppl.its not as if the the council and the alliance were buddy buddy anyway they had numerous issues with one another at any moment a war could have broken out over any number of things.

her dog and the bear analogy simply says that if the council is the owner humanity is the dog and a great threat against the galaxy is the Bear.the owner in a bid to survive will let the dog loose to fight the bear while they run away from danger.not beacuse of racesim but beacuse humanity is not their own.it is not racism to care about your own ppl over others.its not as if the council dosent have a history of doing this in the first place they used the krogan to wipe out the rachni they used the turians to decimate the krogan and when the geth invaded the attican traverse they used the alliance to shield them from the geth.

in short you want a true and clear view at racsim and xenophobia i suggest you read Mass effect retribution and pay attention to TIM and Kai leng they are obviously affraid of alien cultrue and influences and share a great distaste for aliens.ash shares nothing in common with these two.

3. ashley not being capable of handiling those two geth in that one 20 second cutscene on eden prime....are you serious......this example is the sillest thing i ever heard.what exactly in those 20 seconds gave you the impression that ash couldnt kill those geth?ashley had been fighting on Eden prime for hours before sehp and the normandy showed up she may have killed dozens of geth before this scene you dont know.the thing that makes this so silly is that it was a 20 second or more scene that just showed ash behind cover getting ready to attack.the fact that you would even use this as a reason to say she cant handle herself enough to be a spectre beacuse of that scene makes me take your post even  less seriously than i had before.

4. uggghhh,are you serious.you really know nothing about this charecter at all.sooo the FACT that ash can lead a highly elite salarian STG  team in a sucidal frontal charge on sarens base full of geth and krogan isnt a good enough example of how effective she can lead troops into battle.how about the fact that shepard and anderson comment on how awsome a soldier ash is so awsome thats the reason why she was reasigned to the normandy in the first place.or the fact that in traing runs ash was hailed as a good leader by her squad.

5.ummm ok shes human,theirs no rule book stateing that all spectres have to be calm and collected.we havent even properly met any other spectres.we knew nihuls for like 10 minutes and only had one conversation with him and we had to kill vasir and saren so they dont really count.plus saren wasnt all that level headed if you even mentioned humanity or the alliance he would lose his mind.

[mopotter]

LeVaughnX wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

First off, the Spectre thing hasn't been confirmed. Its still just a rumor, albeit a rumor based on what we know thus far.

And I didn't get too far into your post and I apologize for that, but the moment I saw "racist" and "xenophobe" as factual remarks for Ash, I knew that it was best if I didn't continue reading.

Sorry about that.

It's a game and fictional thing; I can't see why you fanboys get so pissed about these things. In anycase she may not be a "super" racist/xenophobe but she is a low tier one. It's kind of the difference between a racist supporter group (Cerberus) vs a person who just dislikes aliens due to their up-bringing. Either way it still makes them sound like an ass when they say anything.

Either way - this thread/topic isn't about "who said what" or "who did what" - this is a "Why is the VS a Spectre" thread/topic. So don't get your panties in a bunch.

I don't consider myself an Ash "Fanboy".  I like her, but Ash and Kaidan take turns dying in my games no matter who Shepard is or who the LI is.  Shepard has left his LI behind if it's what needs to be done.  

I do take issue with the idea that she's racist or xenophobe.  These would be reasons she would not make a good Spectre so they are revelent and they are wrong.

When you talk to her she admits she has never worked or been around other races.  She does not trust them and higher ups have the same doubts and Shepard can fuel those doubts are help get rid of them.

If she were either a racist/xenophobe she would not have volunteered to help the Salarians.  She would have gone if ordered to, but she would not have volunteered.    If she were eithe racist/xenophobe she would be encouraging Shepard to support terra firma , not call them a bunch of Jackels.  

That 3rd one -  "Was completely incapable of handling two Geth in Mass Effect 1"  I agree BW should have had more than 2 and we should have seen her killing one, at the time we come along, but she was still fighting and had survived, probably would have survived like Shepard, if you picked the sole survivor background. 

4th - .) Showed no ability to lead or command respect other than being a wannabe".     Drill Instructor Gunnery Chief Ellison noted her steadfast endurance and aggressive instincts, and promoted her to squad leader, and subsequently to platoon guide after observing her effective tutelage of the less skilled members of her training unit. Her platoon had logged unanimous positive feedback on her leadership in the recent fitness review cycle. Private Nirali Bhatia praised her focus on team-building exercises and "tough but fair" discipline. -me wiki

5 - "too emotional"  This one made me laugh.  There is nothing wrong with emotion and she is not too emotional.

She has all of the qualities a good Spectre needs and she will do a good job.  

So will Kaidan. 

[mopotter]

LeVaughnX wrote...

shnizzler93 wrote...

You mean to tell me you never heard that humans are capable of change?

My, my, I was wrong all this time...

I saw a change in Ash/Kaiden on Horizon; Ashley became a simple minded emotionally driven asswipe and Kaiden similar but at least he seems more apologetic than she did.

Horizon had so many things wrong with it, it's depressing, and one of the few thing I have trouble forgiving the writers for.  

But vs were right to question Shepards motives for being with Cerberus.  

[AresXX7]

Antivenger wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Wearing Specter armor doens't make someone specter. In ME1 hole my squad was wearing Specter armors.

SpecTRe armour doesn't exist. What are you talking about?

Actually, if you have ME1 on the PC, I heard you can get it.

Here's what it looks like:

[mopotter]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

LOL @ OP

They are Spectres as shown in demo's and screenshots

OK  this did make me smile.  Love the shades.