288 réponses à ce sujet

[Ianamus]

both Ashely and Kaidan helped Shepard defeat the Geth, and played a large role in destroying Sarena base on Virmire. That's enough to make them spectre material in my opinion.

As for Ashley, she's not a "Xenophobe" she just mistrusts aliens, and believes humanity should look out for itself first. Hopefully becomming a spectre could mean that she has put her prejudices aside and believes that humanity needs to work with alien species to defeat the reapers.

[Destroy Raiden_]

See the problem is now that people think she's a spector but then Anderson callers her Lieutenant so now the issue is are they or aren't they? I would rather they both be LTs it makes sense. For them to be sepctors its kind of insulting to them because they would've just been a political stunt like space shep's mom was. Spaceshep dies and his/her mom is offered to become an Admril and she turns it down to be a Captain or something like that. To me it just screams political puppet and not well deserved promotion. LT is more deserved promotion then political stunt.

And she's not a racist or Xenophobe her opinions rub some people the wrong way she lived on a colony that wasn't the happening place to be her comments reflect this different view of the larger world and I agree with her on some of her comments not being able to tell if an Elcor is a person or a thing wanting to eat you is a big deal once you establish said Elcor is a person then no more fear or concern is needed.

I think Ash's lines were written to reflect some of their players fears or likes some players don't play these space games and so seeing all these aliens in one space for the first time can be quite a sight for new players some of her lines are made to reflect this.

[jbblue05]

If Ash's racist, What about Wrex, Garrus, Tali, Mordin?
These characters never get flak for their racist comments.

Just because Ash is a realist, doesn't love aliens and isn't perfect like you doesn't make her racist

[1136342t54_]

Paulinius wrote...
Seeing that there are at least 11.4 billion humans during the time frame of ME1 and assuming at low-ball figure of 1% of them being in the military, that gives us a total military force of 114,000,000 humans. Statistically speaking, sheer probability says one of them would be better than the VS.

But now that you mention it and I think about it some more, if the Council was going to add another SPECTRE and for whatever reason they decide to get a human one (maybe to balance things out a bit) they would must likely ask the human councilor his opinion. For most people, that would be Anderson and he would probably recommend the VS due to the recent events from ME1.

That logic kind of doesn't work since there a spectres who would lose in a straight combat situation against most Asari Justicars and even possibly some Salarian STG. What makes a spectre isn't just because they are good in combat but there survivability, competence and determination. The fact Ashley and kaidan has lived through Shepard's antics and possibly even more dangerous missions in the Alliance (They were doing classified ops during the years between ME1 and ME2) it would likely make them Spectre worthy.

Also I doubt Spectres start off extremely badass (Shepard exluded) many of them would have to learn through missions with other Spectres.

[1136342t54_]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

See the problem is now that people think she's a spector but then Anderson callers her Lieutenant so now the issue is are they or aren't they? 

Shepard is a spectre but is constantly called Commander.

[Paulinius]

1136342t54 wrote...

Paulinius wrote...
Seeing that there are at least 11.4 billion humans during the time frame of ME1 and assuming at low-ball figure of 1% of them being in the military, that gives us a total military force of 114,000,000 humans. Statistically speaking, sheer probability says one of them would be better than the VS.

But now that you mention it and I think about it some more, if the Council was going to add another SPECTRE and for whatever reason they decide to get a human one (maybe to balance things out a bit) they would must likely ask the human councilor his opinion. For most people, that would be Anderson and he would probably recommend the VS due to the recent events from ME1.

That logic kind of doesn't work since there a spectres who would lose in a straight combat situation against most Asari Justicars and even possibly some Salarian STG. What makes a spectre isn't just because they are good in combat but there survivability, competence and determination. The fact Ashley and kaidan has lived through Shepard's antics and possibly even more dangerous missions in the Alliance (They were doing classified ops during the years between ME1 and ME2) it would likely make them Spectre worthy.

Also I doubt Spectres start off extremely badass (Shepard exluded) many of them would have to learn through missions with other Spectres.

The logic is sound. If you randomly select one person out of a population of 114,000,000 and compare that one person to the rest of the population, odds are there will be at least one other person that is stronger, smarter, more experienced, better social skills, better trained, et cetera.

But as I said, upon further review it is fine that the VS becomes a Spectre. Although they are most likely not the best in any one given field or fields, their experience makes them qualified in a general sense. Combine that with their high visibility due to the events in ME1 and their personal contact and affiliation with the human councilor makes their selection as a Spectre a logical decision.

[Oblivious]

I'm always shocked and slightly disappointed that people would continue a thread after 5 pages when its obvious the TC is either a troll or somebody who's so confident in his own sphere that they'll ignore any opinions that do not agree with him. In this case it is the latter =/

[Mathias]

jbblue05 wrote...

If Ash's racist, What about Wrex, Garrus, Tali, Mordin?
These characters never get flak for their racist comments.

Just because Ash is a realist, doesn't love aliens and isn't perfect like you doesn't make her racist

It's the way our American society works. Only the white man can be a racist. While anyone who isn't white can say whatever racist comments they want and not get in trouble. Same thing applies here. The aliens can say whatever they want about humans but not get flak for it, while one human (ashley) says something and suddenly she's the devil in people's eyes.

It's a splendid hypocrisy.

[1136342t54_]

Paulinius wrote...
The logic is sound. If you randomly select one person out of a population of 114,000,000 and compare that one person to the rest of the population, odds are there will be at least one other person that is stronger, smarter, more experienced, better social skills, better trained, et cetera.

But as I said, upon further review it is fine that the VS becomes a Spectre. Although they are most likely not the best in any one given field or fields, their experience makes them qualified in a general sense. Combine that with their high visibility due to the events in ME1 and their personal contact and affiliation with the human councilor makes their selection as a Spectre a logical decision.

It doesn't work when choosing spectres thats what I meant. I thought you were disagreeing with the decision of them allowing for Kaidan or Ashley to be a spectre because of there combat capabilities. 

[Morroian]

EJ107 wrote...

both Ashely and Kaidan helped Shepard defeat the Geth, and played a large role in destroying Sarena base on Virmire. That's enough to make them spectre material in my opinion.

Helped being the operative word, neither showed enough competence or command material to be spectre candidates in ME1 or ME2.

[Morroian]

1136342t54 wrote...

Also I doubt Spectres start off extremely badass (Shepard exluded) many of them would have to learn through missions with other Spectres.

Given what spectres are they should actually be badasses at the start. They should be chosen as spectres precisely because they're badasses.

[1136342t54_]

Morroian wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Also I doubt Spectres start off extremely badass (Shepard exluded) many of them would have to learn through missions with other Spectres.

Given what spectres are they should actually be badasses at the start. They should be chosen as spectres precisely because they're badasses.

There is a difference between badass and extremely badass bordering on Mary Sue. Shepard, Saren and Kai Leng are extreme badasses able to kick all ass. Ashley, Kaiden and Jacob are badasses but not on the level of Shepard. Hell Nihlus had to be trained by Saren in some aspects of being a Spectre.

[crimzontearz]

The Twilight God wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

even if all they had was a platonic friendship she still chooses him over me....and he is, for all she knows, already dead....I'm her lover and I am ALIVE

to me that stung more than the VS BS on Horizon 

She chose herself. She assumes Feron is dead so it is her own personal desire for vengence that she chose over going on a supposed suicide mission and letting the Shadow Broken get away with it. Personally, I wouldn't want to bring someone I was romantically involved with to a suicide mission (including squadmate LIs). It makes the ME2 LIs seem more like end of the world last peice of tail before I die flings. Especial femshp and Garrus. He's a great guy, but he looks like a cross between a raptor, a cat and a coachroach. Give me a break.

and by extension she chose him

I'd rather have my love with me on a suicide mission than "the last piece of tail"....and she should  want to be with me given I might very well die.......again. Still all was forgiven after LOTSB

[1136342t54_]

crimzontearz wrote...

and by extension she chose him

I'd rather have my love with me on a suicide mission than "the last piece of tail"....and she should  want to be with me given I might very well die.......again. Still all was forgiven after LOTSB

Wow. Even though someone risked there life for you twice nearly dying many times just for you somehow this person wanting to get revenge and remove a threat (The Shadow Broker) is selfish? Actually its pretty smart since the Shadow Broker supported an enemy that wanted to take Shepard's body. In many ways the Shadow Broker is possibly more dangerous then the Collectors and if the Reapers came and fooled the Broker again then they will have asset that could destroy shepard.

[JayhartRIC]

1136342t54 wrote...

Morroian wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Also I doubt Spectres start off extremely badass (Shepard exluded) many of them would have to learn through missions with other Spectres.

Given what spectres are they should actually be badasses at the start. They should be chosen as spectres precisely because they're badasses.

There is a difference between badass and extremely badass bordering on Mary Sue. Shepard, Saren and Kai Leng are extreme badasses able to kick all ass. Ashley, Kaiden and Jacob are badasses but not on the level of Shepard. Hell Nihlus had to be trained by Saren in some aspects of being a Spectre.

Plus Shepard really wasn't all that badass when he received Spectre status.  It is possible that the only thing Shepard did of note up til that point is survive a thresher maw attack.  Plus now that humanity is on the Council, they are looking for more human Spectres.  It makes sense for the VS to be at the top of the list.

[1136342t54_]

JayhartRIC wrote...

Plus Shepard really wasn't all that badass when he received Spectre status.  It is possible that the only thing Shepard did of note up til that point is survive a thresher maw attack.  Plus now that humanity is on the Council, they are looking for more human Spectres.  It makes sense for the VS to be at the top of the list.

Being the ultimate survivor is pretty useful though. It means that you are hard as hell to kill and I would send someone like that against a Killing machine like Saren.

[JayhartRIC]

1136342t54 wrote...

JayhartRIC wrote...

Plus Shepard really wasn't all that badass when he received Spectre status.  It is possible that the only thing Shepard did of note up til that point is survive a thresher maw attack.  Plus now that humanity is on the Council, they are looking for more human Spectres.  It makes sense for the VS to be at the top of the list.

Being the ultimate survivor is pretty useful though. It means that you are hard as hell to kill and I would send someone like that against a Killing machine like Saren.

Yea, let's make Corporal Toombs a Spectre too.

[K_Tabris]

OK, I apologize in advance if any of this has already been said.


I think you (OP)have some good points, but I would like to point out a few things:

LeVaughnX wrote...

Alright slow down a second; I know I might be getting ahead of myself but I read (in Phaedon's Blog) that it's been confermed that the VS is a Spectre....I don't really see this as true for multiple reasons... I'll get them out of the way...

-----
Ashley

1.) Is a racist.

2.) Is a xenophobe.

3.) Was completely incapable of handling two Geth in Mass Effect 1.

4.) Showed no ability to lead or command respect other than being a wannabe "Ripley".

5.) Is overly Emotional.

~Saren was also a xenophobe, and he was stated as being one of the Council's best Agents.
~Ashley was not a racist or a xenophobe, she instead displayed a caution of working with other alien races due to ignorance and lack of experience with them
~While leadership was limited, she would have to display some time of leadership qualities to be promoted to Gunnery Chief in the military

LeVaughnX wrote...
Kaidan

1.) Is easily bothered.

2.) Is overly Emotional but to a lesser degree as Ashley.

3.) Didn't really care for the council but he wasn't a racist.

4.) Argued a little with authority?

Kaidan was third or fourht? command on the Normandy, according to his military rank.  He is a strong leader, his character is very consistent and solid.  He goes by the book and is not afraid to do the right thing regardless of the opinions of others.  He saw aliens as other sentient beings, not xenophobic, etc. (not that that matters anyway).  He was not afraid to voice his concerns with authority, not afraid to question wha tleaders were doing, their motives.  He was not an aumaton, blindly following orders.  
Kaidan has only displayed overemotional in ME2 during Horizon, and I think everybody has chalked that scene up to atrocious writing.

LeVaughnX wrote...
Both

1.) Couldn't handle their jobs alone in Mass Effect 1 causing the other to die; where as Shepard basically is a one man army.

2.) Neither over-came over-whelming odds.

3.) Both screwed up on Horizon (sp?).

4.) Neither seemingly collected any rational data on Horizon.

5.) Neither are capable of rational thought or logic.
-----

I really don't agree with any of these statements here, and are not sure where you get your basis for these opinions. Kaidan was an L2, by definition that is overcoming overwhelming odds. Both seemed like fairly rational individuals throughout the first game 

LeVaughnX wrote...
Now there is also one major thing that bothered me about this... They've said already that a "Luke I am your Father"type twist is going to be in the game...Well my guess is that the VS (considering the Collectors/Reapers basically left them on Horizon but took nearly everyone else) has been secretly implanted with some form of control device or implanted with some cyborgnetics in general by the Collectors and or Reapers during their time in Stasis on Horizon. So if its true that they are a Spectre (but neither really deserves it above anyone else...Zaeed should be the second Human Spectre if anything hah) then this could be the big twist.

In any-case; what do you guys think about this information? What are your opinions? I'm not looking for a rage-war or a flame-war; though the fanboys will start something I'm sure.

So mature comments only please 

At the same time, I don't find it realistic that they are going to be Spectres in the third game.  I can see Kaidan being a good candidate, but not Ashley.  She is too inexperienced, and therefore a little bit too ignorant for that role.  Unfortunately, Horizon has set the stage for the V.S. to play interchangable roles, even though they are such different characters. (Ugh!)
 Also, not really sure about your cybernetic injection theory, but nothing is for certain at this point. My guess is no.

It is most likely true that they will play a significant role in the beginning linking Shepard to the Alliance.  Perhaps they are going to be present at Shepard's trial, bringing evidence for or against him/her, or vouching for Shepard;s character.  Maybe V.S. will help SHepard bust out of prison when the Reapers start to arrive.  

[mopotter]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

See the problem is now that people think she's a spector but then Anderson callers her Lieutenant so now the issue is are they or aren't they?

I would rather they both be LTs it makes sense. For them to be sepctors its kind of insulting to them because they would've just been a political stunt like space shep's mom was. Spaceshep dies and his/her mom is offered to become an Admril and she turns it down to be a Captain or something like that. To me it just screams political puppet and not well deserved promotion. LT is more deserved promotion then political stunt.

They called Shepard by alliance rank also.  Not Spectre Shepard it was always Comander Sheoard.  I just think a lot of players don't want anyone on the team to be of equal rank or power    For me they deserve it.  Both of them.  

edit quotes and also see someone else mentioned this.  

Modifié par mopotter, 20 juin 2011 - 01:45 .

[1136342t54_]

JayhartRIC wrote...

Yea, let's make Corporal Toombs a Spectre too.

Actually Corporal Toombs in ME2 created a merc band that hunt and kill Cerberus Commandos. He's not spectre material but he isn't a mook either.

Also Shepard mentally survived in situation that would have broke most civillians and military personnel. Thats not something every soldier has but they train for that.

[BloodyTalon]

Wow you do realized that nearly every alien is racist if you cfall it that against another race

But to put it how ash would put, when your facing a bear and the only way to get away is to sic your dog on it you do it, its not racism the dog just isn't human. I most likely got that quote wrong, but you get the point. she doesn't do it on purpose she just lacked experiences dealing with aliens in the first one.

[The Twilight God]

JayhartRIC wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Morroian wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Also I doubt Spectres start off extremely badass (Shepard exluded) many of them would have to learn through missions with other Spectres.

Given what spectres are they should actually be badasses at the start. They should be chosen as spectres precisely because they're badasses.

There is a difference between badass and extremely badass bordering on Mary Sue. Shepard, Saren and Kai Leng are extreme badasses able to kick all ass. Ashley, Kaiden and Jacob are badasses but not on the level of Shepard. Hell Nihlus had to be trained by Saren in some aspects of being a Spectre.

Plus Shepard really wasn't all that badass when he received Spectre status.  It is possible that the only thing Shepard did of note up til that point is survive a thresher maw attack.  Plus now that humanity is on the Council, they are looking for more human Spectres.  It makes sense for the VS to be at the top of the list.

The thresher maw surival is the most harcore because it was on foot against multiple thresthers.

War Hero basically sats at a choke point and held a highly defensible spot. Kinda llike what Garrus did on Omega. Great work, but nothing compared to sole survivor. I think holding out in Arrival was a more impressive show of combative skill as the place wasn't all that defensible and there was a heavy mech thrown in to boot.

Ruthless went in with a bunch of guys and killed a bunch of other guys and got most his guys killed. That's less impressive than what he does now which is run in with 2 guys, kill a bunch of guys and suffer no casualties.  


Each one represents an important SPECTRE trait:

Resourcefulness and surival against all odds

Bravery, heroism and prowess

Willingness make the hard decisions and do whatever it takes.

[Lukertin]

bobobo878 wrote...
A wanna be Ripley?  Really? She always struck me as more of a wannabe "Vasquez"

so...all hispanics look the same to you?

[Rulid]

I don't know why the VS being a spectre is a problem.

Honestly, that goofball Nihlus was a spectre.

Even that chick from LotSB was a spectre.

It may be difficult to be the First spectre, but can anyone name the second team to land on the moon? Once Shep gets his foot in the door, I don't suppose that all too much scrutiny is given to making a second human spectre.

Moreso, since Shep is effectively KIA/MIA then somewhat rogue, the council will no doubt grant a second spectre as a replacement filler. If so, why not one of Shep's team?

It would have been, in fact, more out of the blue if there was a new human spectre and the VS were just recurring characters.