140 réponses à ce sujet

[Malanek]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

hehe all I would like to know is if you are working to solve the issue there was in ME2 where you had 2 viable point spread distributions (for shepard....and only 1 for the squaddies) and everything else left you with un-used points because you just did not have enough to buy an even extra level of one of the non maxed skills

From what I've seen, there's a lot more depth in terms of the customization of abilities and powers. So you have a lot more options in terms of where you want to put your points.

I haven't really taken a close look at all the options, but I'm fairly certain you should have a lot more options in terms of viable builds for both Shep and for the party.

Thanks for your input Brenon. While on this suject I feel compelled to make a suggestion

Has the dev team considered removing the pre-requisites for squad points? I don't know of anybody who likes them. Simply removing them would open up more viable character builds for virtually no work and, in ME2 at least, it would not have unbalanced anything.

[FERMi27]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

I think there's a misunderstanding. They're context sensitive...

"Playing with them off because I know what I'm doing" isn't really very likely... unless you've memorized the complete graph of movements between all cover in all levels.

How do you know you can swat turn between two pieces of cover? You can't just blindly trust that there's an acceptable piece of cover off to the side... You'd probably have to turn the camera over to look. And is that cover close enough? Hard to tell just by eyeballing it... Then you would have to turn the camera back and initiate the action...

The icons are there to let you know you can do something, because it's not really feasible for people to "just know" that they can do a specific cover action (beyond some of the basic ones, like cover slip).

And yes... there could be an option in ME3 to disable them... but I think people should understand their actual use before disparaging their utility. :happy:

With all due respect, man, but you have no idea what is it like being a high level player. For instance, I get constantly accused of all kinds of cheats when I play Left 4 Dead 2 on public servers. Wallhack, aimbot, even innocent bunnyhopping is classified as cheating, in the eyes of those average players you are talking about. Simply because they cannot comprehend what a motivated player is capable of.
Aside of that, I always choose the hardest gameplay mode available at the first playthough of nearly any game I get my hands on. So please, do not be so sure in what you're saying

[onelifecrisis]

/facedesk

[sp0ck 06]

FERMi27 wrote...

Brenon Holmes wrote...

I think there's a misunderstanding. They're context sensitive...

"Playing with them off because I know what I'm doing" isn't really very likely... unless you've memorized the complete graph of movements between all cover in all levels.

How do you know you can swat turn between two pieces of cover? You can't just blindly trust that there's an acceptable piece of cover off to the side... You'd probably have to turn the camera over to look. And is that cover close enough? Hard to tell just by eyeballing it... Then you would have to turn the camera back and initiate the action...

The icons are there to let you know you can do something, because it's not really feasible for people to "just know" that they can do a specific cover action (beyond some of the basic ones, like cover slip).

And yes... there could be an option in ME3 to disable them... but I think people should understand their actual use before disparaging their utility. :happy:

With all due respect, man, but you have no idea what is it like being a high level player. For instance, I get constantly accused of all kinds of cheats when I play Left 4 Dead 2 on public servers. Wallhack, aimbot, even innocent bunnyhopping is classified as cheating, in the eyes of those average players you are talking about. Simply because they cannot comprehend what a motivated player is capable of.
Aside of that, I always choose the hardest gameplay mode available at the first playthough of nearly any game I get my hands on. So please, do not be so sure in what you're saying

/facepalm

[Someone With Mass]

FERMi27 wrote...
With all due respect, man, but you have no idea what is it like being a high level player. For instance, I get constantly accused of all kinds of cheats when I play Left 4 Dead 2 on public servers. Wallhack, aimbot, even innocent bunnyhopping is classified as cheating, in the eyes of those average players you are talking about. Simply because they cannot comprehend what a motivated player is capable of.
Aside of that, I always choose the hardest gameplay mode available at the first playthough of nearly any game I get my hands on. So please, do not be so sure in what you're saying

You do realize that this game is meant to appeal to as many as possible, including the average player (by the way, there's nothing hardcore about playing a video game), right?

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 19 juin 2011 - 09:21 .

[FERMi27]

Someone With Mass wrote...

FERMi27 wrote...
With all due respect, man, but you have no idea what is it like being a high level player. For instance, I get constantly accused of all kinds of cheats when I play Left 4 Dead 2 on public servers. Wallhack, aimbot, even innocent bunnyhopping is classified as cheating, in the eyes of those average players you are talking about. Simply because they cannot comprehend what a motivated player is capable of.
Aside of that, I always choose the hardest gameplay mode available at the first playthough of nearly any game I get my hands on. So please, do not be so sure in what you're saying

You do realize that this game is meant to appeal to as many as possible, including the average player (by the way, there's nothing hardcore about playing a video game), right?

Since mr. Holmes said there would be an option to turn off the discussed features, I have nothing more to complain about in this sector.

[Clonedzero]

the people that are against the cover movement indicators don't really seem to understand why they're there. they call it handholding when its not.

taking them out would be like not showing any indication of health, or any ammo indication either. they are part of the gameplay mechanic so know what you're actually going to do. if i push right and A am i going to swat turn into that next piece of cover or am i going to do a combat roll into the open and get killed? oh great a handy indicator that tells me. fantastic.

taking them out wouldnt add real challenge, it would only add challenge in the form of badly designed mechanics where you're control scheme isnt clear. with them, you have a fluid cover to cover system.

i'm 100% positive that if you played for 10 minutes you'd realize how necessary they are for proper gameplay. anyone who turned them off would die many many times due to not knowing what they're doing at any given moment and would turn them back on.

its like squad command markers. you need an actual indicator to show you where you're actually sending garrus, sure it'd be possible to use the orders without the indicators, but it'd be really really easy to make mistakes and unclear on what each command would actually do. same concept.

i really hate when people suggest stuff like this because they don't know what they;re talking about and they're wasting the dev's time by having them look into stupid stuff like this.

[Brenon Holmes]

FERMi27 wrote...

Since mr. Holmes said there would be an option to turn off the discussed features, I have nothing more to complain about in this sector.

I said we'd look into it. No promises. Subtle difference. :happy:

[Babli]

Clonedzero wrote...
i really hate when people suggest stuff like this because they don't know what they;re talking about and they're wasting the dev's time by having them look into stupid stuff like this.

Yes, they should delete whole forum or we should be allowed to make threads only about good things.

Forums are here to express our opinions, deal with it.

Also, as was said numerous times in this very thread, other TPS have option to turn these things off or dont have these arrows at all, so your whole post is just your assumption.

See, if I demanded to devs to get rid of arrows permanently, I would understand this attitude of yours and others like you, but the only thing I want is the option to turn it off. Is it really that much to ask? Oh wait...I am on the internet..nvm.

[Wolf_in_the_Meadow]

Clonedzero wrote...

the people that are against the cover movement indicators don't really seem to understand why they're there. they call it handholding when its not.

taking them out would be like not showing any indication of health, or any ammo indication either. they are part of the gameplay mechanic so know what you're actually going to do. if i push right and A am i going to swat turn into that next piece of cover or am i going to do a combat roll into the open and get killed? oh great a handy indicator that tells me. fantastic.

taking them out wouldnt add real challenge, it would only add challenge in the form of badly designed mechanics where you're control scheme isnt clear. with them, you have a fluid cover to cover system.

i'm 100% positive that if you played for 10 minutes you'd realize how necessary they are for proper gameplay. anyone who turned them off would die many many times due to not knowing what they're doing at any given moment and would turn them back on.

its like squad command markers. you need an actual indicator to show you where you're actually sending garrus, sure it'd be possible to use the orders without the indicators, but it'd be really really easy to make mistakes and unclear on what each command would actually do. same concept.

i really hate when people suggest stuff like this because they don't know what they;re talking about and they're wasting the dev's time by having them look into stupid stuff like this.

I know you were generalising and weren't refering to me, but since I am in general one of the ones agianst it I feel the need to respond.

I'm not against it becasue I want a challenge or because I don't undertstand what it's for - I'm against it 'cos from what we've seen it's a series of big fecking glowing arrows whenever you're in a fight.

All I'm asking for is a little more subtlety.

[Olwydd]

Hmm, I'm fine with the arrows as aids - I'd just prefer them to be less blatant/obtrusive. Maybe stick them in a lower/upper corner or something, rather than the middle of the screen so they're less of a distraction.

But that's just my personal preference.

[Lumikki]

Clonedzero wrote...

i really hate when people suggest stuff like this because they don't know what they;re talking about and they're wasting the dev's time by having them look into stupid stuff like this.

I have to disagree.

What you say here that you think they are neccassary for gameplay.
How ever, they may not be neccassary for everyone.

Example who says everyone needs health bar for they gameplay?
My point is don't assume what you need and want, is same for everyone

That's why they suggested it as menu options, so everyone gets what they want. There are people who wants more information in HUD and some who likes to keep it as minimal as possible. These are all different people preference how to play games. On the biggest issue has allways been, assume everyone is like me. In my opinion game companies should use menu options as much they can and not assume everyone likes something some ways.

Modifié par Lumikki, 19 juin 2011 - 09:46 .

[Clonedzero]

it just seems extremely nitpicky to complain about something you'd get used to and wouldnt be bothered by at all after playing for 2 seconds.

also, name a well received third person shooter with the options to turn cover mechanic indicators off, cus i think you're making that up lol i mean you obviously didnt seem to understand what they were for before.

trust me, having played many a third person shooter, they are necessary HUD elements for proper fluid control. you would not want them off and you'd get used to them being in the game and thankful they're int he game after a minute of playing. im 100% positive on this.

EDIT- i'm just really glad none of you actually have any real say in this and that actual game designers are working on it. they'll be in the game and i HIGHLY doubt they'd allow you to turn them off as they're necessary for proper gameplay.

Modifié par Clonedzero, 19 juin 2011 - 09:46 .

[Ahglock]

Clonedzero wrote...

the people that are against the cover movement indicators don't really seem to understand why they're there. they call it handholding when its not.

taking them out would be like not showing any indication of health, or any ammo indication either. they are part of the gameplay mechanic so know what you're actually going to do. if i push right and A am i going to swat turn into that next piece of cover or am i going to do a combat roll into the open and get killed? oh great a handy indicator that tells me. fantastic.

taking them out wouldnt add real challenge, it would only add challenge in the form of badly designed mechanics where you're control scheme isnt clear. with them, you have a fluid cover to cover system.

i'm 100% positive that if you played for 10 minutes you'd realize how necessary they are for proper gameplay. anyone who turned them off would die many many times due to not knowing what they're doing at any given moment and would turn them back on.

its like squad command markers. you need an actual indicator to show you where you're actually sending garrus, sure it'd be possible to use the orders without the indicators, but it'd be really really easy to make mistakes and unclear on what each command would actually do. same concept.

i really hate when people suggest stuff like this because they don't know what they;re talking about and they're wasting the dev's time by having them look into stupid stuff like this.

Or we understand and disagree.  I'm 100% positve that after playing the game at most once I would not need the icons at all.  7-8 context sensitive moves? Yeah I'm sure that wont be a issue at all.  Annoying blue arrows on the other hand I do find to be an issue.  

[MonkeyLungs]

Clonedzero wrote...

it just seems extremely nitpicky to complain about something you'd get used to and wouldnt be bothered by at all after playing for 2 seconds.

also, name a well received third person shooter with the options to turn cover mechanic indicators off, cus i think you're making that up lol i mean you obviously didnt seem to understand what they were for before.

trust me, having played many a third person shooter, they are necessary HUD elements for proper fluid control. you would not want them off and you'd get used to them being in the game and thankful they're int he game after a minute of playing. im 100% positive on this.

EDIT- i'm just really glad none of you actually have any real say in this and that actual game designers are working on it. they'll be in the game and i HIGHLY doubt they'd allow you to turn them off as they're necessary for proper gameplay.

It seems really narrow minded to argue against including more options. Just make an ADVANCED USERS tab in the gameplay options and give us pages and pages of checkboxes full of options that we can choose to turn ON or OFF. Let the gamer tailor the experience to their wants needs.
 
I would like to turn the little arrows off.

[Clonedzero]

ok, advocate for unnecessary options out of ignorance, fine by me. if a bunch of people who have no idea what they're talking about want options to turn them off, i guess thats cool, i just respect the dev's time more than that since i KNOW everyone advocating for them to be off will want them back on once they realize what they really are.

[Ahglock]

Clonedzero wrote...

ok, advocate for unnecessary options out of ignorance, fine by me. if a bunch of people who have no idea what they're talking about want options to turn them off, i guess thats cool, i just respect the dev's time more than that since i KNOW everyone advocating for them to be off will want them back on once they realize what they really are.

Right, we are the ignorant ones.  The all knowing Clonedzero has spoken, he knows all.  

[Babli]

Clonedzero wrote...

ok, advocate for unnecessary options out of ignorance, fine by me. if a bunch of people who have no idea what they're talking about want options to turn them off, i guess thats cool, i just respect the dev's time more than that since i KNOW everyone advocating for them to be off will want them back on once they realize what they really are.

Indeed, how ignorant we are. lol

[MonkeyLungs]

Dear Clonedzero,

No I actually enjoy turning that kind of stuff off. You really don't know what you are talking about. Options are, like, optional man. Once you play the game past the tutorial that kind of context sensitve handholding crap is just annoying.

I also hate mini maps.

Modifié par MonkeyLungs, 19 juin 2011 - 10:05 .

[Clonedzero]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

Dear Clonedzero,

No I actually enjoy turning that kind of stuff off. You really don't know what you are talking about. Options are, like, optional man. Once you play the game past the tutorial that kind of context sensitve handholding crap is just annoying.

I also hate mini maps.

i'd like you to name me a well received third person shooter where the cover mechanic indicators can be turned off. if you know what you're talking about that should be easy right?

[Son of Illusive Man]

I don't mind them, but it's always good to have choices...not just in a morality or story way

[Jazharah]

A suggestion regarding the symbols:

I understand the need for them after reading your responses so far, Brenon; and I can agree. With what I have seen so far in the gameplay vids they do make sense to me. My big gripe with them is that they show up right in the middle of the screen, blocking out the crosshair, obscuring the vision.

Instead I would suggest to have a *small* spot at the top of the screen where these movement options appear, or maybe at the edges of the screen depending on direction, not unlike when you get hit with enemy fire, (though that is right around the character as I remember, but the concept still is the same).

[Leaser]

Clonedzero wrote...

ok, advocate for unnecessary options out of ignorance, fine by me. if a bunch of people who have no idea what they're talking about want options to turn them off, i guess thats cool, i just respect the dev's time more than that since i KNOW everyone advocating for them to be off will want them back on once they realize what they really are.

Since you obviously are the "I'm Right, You're Not" kind of person, it's pointless to explain why ADDING an option to turn those arrows on/off it's better, you wouldn't understand it.
Some people will use those arrows, and some people don't want them. It's simple and adding that option would make everyone happy.
They aren't asking for a completely new combat system, they are asking only to be able to turn them off.

[Wolf_in_the_Meadow]

It's like you don't read what we're typing, Clonedzero.

We KNOW what they are but don't LIKE THEM. They're intrusive.