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Non recruited allies...


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#1
Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien
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Wondering what the situation will be for non recruited allies, am initially referring to squadmates but possibly looking at if we get the choice to not bother going to certain races if we don't want.

Yes, I am fully aware there is the potential for less content and more bloodshed, we already know that from ME2. But just what could potentially have happened to them or to us as far as ME3 is concerned.

I also just want to point out that I don't dislike any squadmates personally, but some of my Shepards do and so some of the points I'll be making are more focussed on their opinion than mine.

I'll start with Wrex seeing as he is one of the first we can decide not to recruit.

Basically, we know that not recruiting Wrex is almost similar to killing him on Virmire other than the import page states he survived it and for some silly reason when talking to TIM at the start you can ask where he is even though he wasn't 'part of the team'. I've always assumed he is dead, but I suppose he could still be out there somewhere doing bounty hunter stuff still, it'd be intriguing if we come across him in ME3 doing some more bounty hunter work then in this instance, but I'm more of the belief they treat it as him dead and out the story.

Next obvious one is Garrus who could be avoided for the most part other than the initial chat in the Council tower and also at the lift in C-Sec when he asks if can join the team.

As much as I like Garrus, this situation bugs me a bit because when Shepard meets him in ME2 they talk as if old friends. Either way we know he is going to be in ME3 if he survived the Suicide Mission, so any 'Turian hating' Sheps would need to kill him off in ME2 for him to be a no show. Now if those Sheps were to be true they just wouldn't bother talking to him on the Normandy which could result in the death of either him or Thane or someone else on the ship run due to cannon not being upgraded.

Tali non-recruitment ensures the death of a squadmate, found this out on my first playthrough with my Shep who never wanted Tali on the original Normandy so there was no way she would go recruit her from Haestrom either. Personally I think it will be silly if Tali appears in ME3 if she wasn't recruited because she should be dead on Haestrom if Shepard hadn't intervened. The other interesting point which will kind of tie up with the 'ME3 allies' scenario is that non recruitment of Tali also means Shepard never meets the Admirals of the Quarian fleet and I'm intrigued as to whether we'll be forced to go talk to the Quarians in ME3, but I'll go into that more when I get to the subject of ME3 allies.

Thane if recruited stated how he didn't expect to come out of the mission to kill Nassana alive, sure he expected to kill her but presumed he would die on the way out. I think just as with Tali on Haestrom this should be another case where he is a no show (basically making him and Tali the Wrex of ME2). No recruitment of Thane would also mean that Kolyat will have killed Joram Talid if things were to turn out as I expect.

Samara, simplest one I think in that she will still be searching for Morinth, only she might've killed the asari cop on Ilium in the process and we possibly won't hear much of her other than that.

Legion, obvious way of non-recruitment is selling to Cerberus, the other is to leave him inactive on the Normandy. I've done the latter on 1 playthrough just to see what happens with regards to him. As for the former, it'll be interesting to see if a combination of that and Overlord is what leads to us fighting against some Geth who are alongside Cerberus troopers in ME3 as seen in some of the footage. I know people like to think of his AI being transferred to another mobile platform and so we end up with Legion 2.0, but I just think that is silly and destroys the point of him being killable. I also want to see if they do basically set it so no recruitment of Legion ensures that all geth are now heretics.

Grunt can be left in his lifepod, it'll be interesting to see how this is handled and could potentially make him another 'ME2 equivalent of Wrex'.

Zaeed and Kasumi, am not one for believing the 'they are DLC so they won't have any relevance' point of view, but I've tagged them together simply because I agree that if we didn't recruit them we possibly won't hear anything of them other than some story of them having done some mission. I imagine Zaeed will have gone and done the mission to take out Vito but probably died in the process. As for Kasumi it'll be interesting if she decided to go do the mission to recover Keiji's greybox solo. I imagine that won't have worked out well in that instance unless she got someone to help her in placement of Shepard.

With regards ME3 allies, I can see us most likely needing to go rally people and most likely we will be railroaded into getting some of them at least even if our Shepard wouldn't go to them if they were the last allies they had left. I just hope it doesn't play out too much like the DAO story. For 2 reasons, one for the silliness of not being able to have both factions if there is a way to settle things amicably, the second is for their not being the choice to tell them to go fight their own petty little battle or just not even bother visiting them and Shep'll go do it with the rest they have.

Allies I see are...

Alliance - obviously permanent, sort of like Redcliffe army.
Quarians/Geth - This is a scenario I'd like to see as either a potential walk away or not bother dealing with at all. As well as both siding with one or getting them to make peace if possible.
Krogan/Salarians - As above
Turians - If the Turian councillor is on Palaven... I soooo want the option with at least one of my Shepards to go "Ahh yes... *airquotes* reapers *close airquotes* DEAL WITH IT!" and let the Turians try to deal with the issues they have on Palaven themselves besides the obvious get them to join us even if we didn't save the council but obviously they be a bit more frosty to us in that scenario.
Batarians - Meh, I got a few of my Sheps that consider the events of Arrival 'a good start' (in reference to the 'lawyers at bottom of the sea' joke). But I got some Sheps that like to think that there are some ok Batarians out there and that something can be done so they can side with us. But definitly another 'optional' choice.
Asari - To some a wonderful species whom are respected and envied, to others a bunch of mind raping aliens. In Mass Effect you could have Shepard seeing the whole mindmeld thing as them messing with his/her mind, you could avoid Crescent Nebula and Ilium altogether in ME2 if you decided to have your Shepard having a dislike for Asari, so it'll be interesting if we can decide not to have their aid in ME3.

Now before anyone jumps on me stating "You humans are all racist" I'll re-itterate my earlier point that am looking at it from Shepard's PoV. Another thing is that am expecting that if you don't gain the help of at least half of the above I sure hope to expect to see casualties, just like it was possible in ME2 with reference to specific people not being recruited/made loyal.

Basically put, a human only playthrough I expect to end badly and before any 'Human-only' crowd start yelling "This is an outrage!" or "Humans are superior" I say this... look what happened to the Protheans? I got to thinking the other day how it is interesting how we only know of the Protheans back from their time, were they really the only race in the whole galaxy or did the races then decide to refer to themselves as one collaboration? Maybe they were the last race to get wiped out because they had been more prepared and maybe us rallying the other races is what will set us apart from the Protheans in that we managed to do what they failed to do. Although you could easily argue that the Protheans will have played a part in our success too.

Anyway am interested to see what other peoples views are on the potential non-recruits and the other things I've mentioned :)

#2
Dantexr3

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Magic can do everything.

#3
Knight of Dane

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I don't have big thoughts on this, but i hope that there will be alternative results when crewmates died or weren't recruited, no matter who's in question.

#4
BubbleSauce

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I don't have the heart not to recruit any squad mate, same way I don't have the heart not to reply when someone who wrote a 1521 word thread is getting mostly ignored as far as I can see. (come on people that takes dedication.)

One thing I did notice is the scenario you raised in which you would have to choose between two races, (eg. the geth or the quarians) this is something I would absolutely adore to have in the game, because it turns the whole meaning of paragon and renegade on it's head. For instance, take the geth and the quarians, the geth would be far more of an asset to Shepard than the quarians, but then there is the whole moral implication of the quarians having their world taken from them. You either help the minority (ie. the quarians) or the majority (ie. Increasing the likelihood of organic life continuing to exist) but at the cost of some morals. See what I mean?

#5
shadowreflexion

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Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...
Anyway am interested to see what other peoples views are on the potential non-recruits and the other things I've mentioned :)

For non recruited allies I'm going to reach a bit. If Tali wasn't recruited in ME1 then it's more than likely that she was killed by Fist on orders from the SB. The Quarians would then have no real contact or friendship with Shep unless the three Quarians that you may choose to help in ME2 are given Tali's role. (The one accused on the Citadel, the one being sold on Illium, and the one you can help on Omega.)

As for Wrex and Garrus, I believe that Wrex would have continued being a Merc. Garrus would have become a much darker individual and the only end I can see for him would be death, labeled a murderer and put to death, or he just embraces what he became on Omega, a vigilante which results in his death.

Liara would be dead from starvation. from staying in that forcefield in ME1.

Killing the Council further alienates other aliens from helping.

Now if you're keeping with a totally human crew then in ME2, Miranda are Jacob would've died failing to keep the barrier active.
Even though recruiting the other alien races in ME2 can still result in their deaths, I think by the time ME3 hits, then everything is in chaos and the battle may still be winnable but will be extremely difficult.

A game with a human only squad would be chaotic. The list of possible alien allies shrink. The Geth and Quarians go to war resulting in the Quarians being destroyed, the Geth side with the Heretics increasing in strength and numbers. The Krogan are at war with the Salarians because you sided with Mordin about destroying the cure before you got him killed during the SM, so their race is in conflict. The Asari might be the only race really willing to try and help. The Batarians grow as terrorists and make life even harder.

I have to stop, my head is swirling. I never really noticed how much thought BW has to really put into these variables. It's easier for me to just let them do their jobs and hope for the best. LOL Good topic though. I'm going to the garage and shoot a game of pool to clear my head.

Modifié par shadowreflexion, 20 juin 2011 - 09:03 .


#6
Son of Illusive Man

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BubbleSauce wrote...

I don't have the heart not to recruit any squad mate, same way I don't have the heart not to reply when someone who wrote a 1521 word thread is getting mostly ignored as far as I can see. (come on people that takes dedication.)

One thing I did notice is the scenario you raised in which you would have to choose between two races, (eg. the geth or the quarians) this is something I would absolutely adore to have in the game, because it turns the whole meaning of paragon and renegade on it's head. For instance, take the geth and the quarians, the geth would be far more of an asset to Shepard than the quarians, but then there is the whole moral implication of the quarians having their world taken from them. You either help the minority (ie. the quarians) or the majority (ie. Increasing the likelihood of organic life continuing to exist) but at the cost of some morals. See what I mean?


Then again, "paragon" is subjective here. Of course, I'd like to broker peace if possible, but even from a moral standpoint, I'd have to choose the geth in this situation.  They were made by the quarians, then they became sentient - effectively slaves, and they left, after using only necesary force.  Since then, they've only attacked when trespassers have come to their world.  Every quarian I have talked to whines about their stupid mistake and tries to shift the blame on others.  They did something stupid and paid for it.  Meanwhile, the only geth I've had a problem with are the heretics, who I've dealt with already.  They're simply machines, and friendly at that.

My main Shepard will try to make a peace agreement, but I also have another Shepard who is mostly paragon with a renegade streakwho couldn't get Tali freed.  That Shepard is going to make the Quarian council pay, even at the cost of innocent (as much as you can call creators of a rouge species) Quarian lives.  And if Tali complains, I can show her the door, because she shouldn't give a crap about the Migrant fleet anymore.  They've turned their back on her and would do the same, so she can shut