78 réponses à ce sujet

[T0rin3]

Spyndel wrote...

I killed her because I hate Captain Janeway and Voyager sucked.

Species 8472 my arse!

Haha, that was exactly why I chose to kill her! She almost convinced me not to, but to hell with Janeway!

[cOcOpopZ]

any ideas on how to kill her, and at what level you would recommend i be at? maybe armor and spells i could use and also who to use since morri is not there with me?

[T0rin3]

I'd say somewhere in the 10-15 range, depending on the items you've collected. The kill itself is very routine if you have a good tank.

[Bane]

I didn't kill Flemeth because she was voiced by Kate Mulgrew. For that reason alone I thought for sure she would play a larger role in the game before the end and I didn't want to miss any story. Sadly, that's not the case.

PS: Janeway was a fine captain and Voyager was a great show (second favorite behind Picard/TNG). I'm Netflixing it now and about to start season seven. Unimatrix Zero part 2 is up next!

[panic686original]

Lyrandori wrote...

She rescues you so that Morrigan can go with you and ask for the Archdemon-Baby deal, to me Flemeth is just as evil and unscrupulous than Palpatine, she [Flemeth] knew what was at stake and what was worth "preserving" for the future, her goal just as much as Morrigan learned from her is to survive, she's a practical being, she "saves" you to serve her own purpose and she's even using her own "daughter" (let's assume Morrigan really is so) as a vehicle and intermediate.

I hate Flemeth and I despise Morrigan as well, just listen to what she has to propose before the end, you really need to play as an evil character to even consider agreeing with such a deal, letting her raise an Old God?! Hello?! No freakin' way as long as I am the one playing. So, yeah, I kill Flemeth each time Morrigan gives me the quest and I refuse Morrigan's offer each time I get to that point in each of my Origins.

I played as a good character and had no problem with it because who's to say the old gods were wrong. You sound pretty biased otherwise.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Biased? Both Morrigan or Flemeth arne't nice people. You pretty much pick that up from talking to them and theri actions. I prolly won't kill Flemeth..or maybe I will.

She did save me, but she's doesn't give the impression of a good person..and her voice so conjures up the image of Janeway..urge to kill...rising.

[cOcOpopZ]

T0rin3 wrote...

I'd say somewhere in the 10-15 range, depending on the items you've collected. The kill itself is very routine if you have a good tank.

thanks TOrin, but what items do you have in mind or suggest?

[Zamav]

I killed her and I killed Archdemon, on my character sheet Flemeth is still the most powerful thing I've killed. That includes High Dragon if you're wondering.



I did killed her. Possessing her daughters to preserve her own life is not something my character would stand by and watch. No matter what she did for my character.

[montana_boy]

Spyndel wrote...

I killed her because I hate Captain Janeway and Voyager sucked.

Species 8472 my arse!

Normal
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Captain Janeway???

 

Isn't she the Star Ship Captain chick that got her entire
crew hopelessly lost during her very first mission?

 

If you have noticed this post has absolutely nothing
to do with DAO

[MICHELLE7]

lasmori wrote...

Svancara wrote...

I don't believe Morrigan or Flemeth would support the further existence of the Darkspawn in terms of a new Archdemon, otherwise Flemeth would have never rescued you.
Flemeth also states that she pretty much only cares for self-preservation (the subplot of the daughter-possession thing aside), which is one of the reasons she sents out Morrigan with you to help the Grey Warden.

Yeah I agree.

Following the dialog with Morrigan, Flemeth stays alive by taking over her 'daughters' as hosts. Morrigan also states that Flemeth desires her new host to be as powerful as possible before doing so. Talking with Flemeth after Morrigan asks you to kill her... Flemeth makes a point to state that while Morrigan might know her true intentions, YOU likely don't. (Morrigan has not told you the whole story)

Talking with Morrigan just before she sleeps with you / Allistar... she states that this child was always Flemeth's plan. So I really doubt Flemeth ever intended Morrigan herself to be the next host.

Morrigan likely didn't even know what Flemeth intended to DO with the child, but once she learned of Flemeths ability to take on a new host, she likely realized that Flemeths plan was to use this new child as such.

Morrigan has a lot of reverence for traditional magic, and old powers. Things most modern people don't give a lot of respect to, or activly subjigate. It would mean a lot to her to preserve the uncorrupted essence of an old god... explaining very much why Morrigan wanted Flemeth killed, and why she continued with the ritual of saving the old god even after she sent you to kill Flemeth.

Of course, she could have just wanted to use Flemeth's magic on the child herself... but I'd wager thats part of the mystery .

It might be that whether or not you choose to kill Flemith or not determines which one of them uses the child.

Morrigan also says that the archdemon will enter the child...if Flemith is not the archdemon itself does she intend to share as host with it in the child?

I read somewhere that they might do Dragon age the same way as Mass Effect...carrying the choices over to the sequel. If that turns out to be true there may not be a single canon answer.

[TheGreenLion]

If we take Kreia from KotOR as an example, She was the uber evil baddy in the end but helped you along the entire time...but she was a Jedi, not a shapeshifter.



However Morrigan clearly states that she's not really sure Flemeth CAN be killed, so technically you may have struck her down....made her bleed excessively and blah blah, but she's probably not dead.

[Armiece]

I didn't kill her since my basically good character a) owes her his life, and doesn't trust a word out of Morrigan's mouth.



I probably wouldn't kill Flemeth even on an evil character, though; if Morrigan is so confident in her abilities and her amazing ability to be smarter than everyone else, she can solve her own issues. I'm not playing errand boy to her.

[Sean0883]

Spoiler in the title man. Spoiler in the title.

[salbine]

Armiece wrote...

I didn't kill her since my basically good character a) owes her his life, and doesn't trust a word out of Morrigan's mouth. 

Same. If Flemeth wants Morrigan, be my guest. That's what Morrigan gets for being a miserable cow to everyone.

[Costello_Anasazi]

First play through I had to let her live I was far too low to fight a dragon. But it did feel like a bit cowardly.



But this play through she died like a giant over ripe lizard, and it was for the best. Firstly she is evil and second killing things is what heroes do. Which is also why I'll agree to the baby route another evil to kill. I imagine the canon ending will be letting the lizard live but have the baby so there is a greater evil you have to fight in any additional games.

[MassEffect762]

I agree with KilrB , Morrigan is being played big time.



Keep repeating conversations(chat spots) with Zevran and Morrigan only and you'll get the sense of just how "brained-washed" morrigan is.

[Brass_Buckles]

Has anyone considered the possibility that maybe Flemeth IS an Old God? What with the dragon form (the Old Gods of the Tevinter Imperium were dragons). In this case, her self-interest of keeping the Blight at bay makes a lot more sense. The darkspawn seek out the Old Gods and corrupt them to create archdemons.  It even makes Morrigan's deal at the end make more sense--if Flemeth is an Old God, then she stands to gain much by freeing another Old God from the taint.  In truth, so does humanity, even if aiding humanity isn't her primary goal.

As for me, I killed Flemeth, though the fact that she saves you makes me wonder if that was the right thing. Sure, she and Morrigan hide things from you, but hiding information doesn't necessarily make them evil. Neither does having an unpleasant disposition. They've been hunted, and most people are strict Chantry adherents. Would things really go well for them if they told everything they knew? I killed Flemeth because no matter how nasty and unpleasant Morrigan might be, no one would deserve the fate she claimed. And, depending what you say to Flemeth, she will even admit that she does in fact raise daughters to possess. Though I suspect that's only part of the story. Like a commenter mentioned above, Zevran does mention Witches of the Wild in Antiva. Maybe only the strongest become hosts--the rest may serve other functions or even just stave off Flemeth's loneliness. Which, if she's an Old God as I suspect, must be great (she has no worshipers any longer after all nor any companions at all).

Modifié par Brass_Buckles, 25 novembre 2009 - 06:15 .

[Zamav]

Darkspawn are drawn to old gods like a moth drawn into the fire. If she was an old god, you can bet they (meaning all darkspawn, including the arch-demon) would go for her first.

We know majority of the old gods have already been surfaced and tainted by darkspawn, Only 2 remains, Razikale, the Dragon of Mystery and Lusacan, the Dragon of Night. If the 2 of them are somehow capable to hide their powers even from Old Gods, than yes, she might be an actual old god. Still, but's are too big to ignore, we have to assume she somehow got away from her prison, or never even been prisoned.

Personally, I think her plan was to make Morrigan bear the child of the Grey Warden and then possess Morrigan, when her daugther comes to age, possess her as well. If such a thing is possible, you can bet Flemeth can do it.

At any rate, if she can preserve herself after her pysical body is destroyed, she has to be something a lot more than some witch with a demon to preserve her life. Come to think of it, that isn't something a demon would do, and she's not benevolent enough for being a spirit host either. Something fishy is going on

[Zem_]

I did choose to kill her first time through, but mostly for gameplay reasons.  As a rogue main character, I was relying on Morrigan and Wynne for magic and Morrigan was the more effective of the two at the time.  Didn't know if she would have a way of knowing whether I'd really killed Flemmeth or not and didn't want to risk losing her.

Thinking back on it though, it wasn't really the in-character thing to do.  Far as I knew she saved the last two wardens in Ferelden and is the only reason there was any chance at all to defeat this Blight.  Whatever her motives, killing her is pretty ungrateful.  In hindsight, however, she probably is the one pulling Morrigan's strings.  I don't think she IS Morrigan or anything like that but it seems obvious she wanted Morrigan to have her grimoire without KNOWING that Flemmeth wanted her to have it.  So you either "kill" her and take it or she just gives it to you, happily in fact.  It's too easy.  Probably knew that Morrigan would study the book and learn about the "opportunity" offered by the death of the archdemon and think it was all her own idea.  And then when it's all done, naturally, Flemmeth swoops in.

And we all know swooping... is.... bad.

[Brass_Buckles]

Zamav wrote...

Darkspawn are drawn to old gods like a moth drawn into the fire. If she was an old god, you can bet they (meaning all darkspawn, including the arch-demon) would go for her first.

We know majority of the old gods have already been surfaced and tainted by darkspawn, Only 2 remains, Razikale, the Dragon of Mystery and Lusacan, the Dragon of Night. If the 2 of them are somehow capable to hide their powers even from Old Gods, than yes, she might be an actual old god. Still, but's are too big to ignore, we have to assume she somehow got away from her prison, or never even been prisoned.

Personally, I think her plan was to make Morrigan bear the child of the Grey Warden and then possess Morrigan, when her daugther comes to age, possess her as well. If such a thing is possible, you can bet Flemeth can do it.

At any rate, if she can preserve herself after her pysical body is destroyed, she has to be something a lot more than some witch with a demon to preserve her life. Come to think of it, that isn't something a demon would do, and she's not benevolent enough for being a spirit host either. Something fishy is going on

You're right about the darkspawn being drawn to old gods, and Flemeth was very good at hiding.  But what if that's because of her power?  I don't recall what was said, exactly, but for some reason the hut was safer than most places.  Who's to say that the Korcari Wilds weren't Flemeth's prison?  It would even make sense for Flemeth to be the Dragon of Mystery.

It's precisely because Flemeth's situation was so fishy that I came to suspect she's an Old God.  Or if not, then she's something eerily similar.  However, it is said at one point in the game that an abomination will retain consciousness if the mage has willingly partnered with the demon.  Of course that would generally shorten rather than lengthen one's lifespan, but if given the opportunity to switch bodies whenever one became too drained... After all, Flemeth looks much too old to be of an age for Morrigan's mother--grandmother, more likely.  While she's not Morrigan's biological mother, could it be that she's actually aging at an accelerated rate?  Or does she only take in children when she becomes old?

In further support of Flemeth being an Old God, how precisely is Morrigan supposed to hide the child with the soul of an Old God from the darkspawn if she hasn't already somehow learned how to do so?

Or maybe Flemeth herself is a demon or spirit and nothing about her is human any longer.  Why go to the trouble of rescuing the soul of an Old God from the taint if she meant to possess the child herself otherwise?  Even so, you'd think only the body would be of use to her, unless somehow she retains the soul of whomever/whatever she possesses.  In which case, had Flemeth possessed Morrigan, she'd still be Morrigan but also Flemeth.  Without the soul of the Old God, the child 's body doesn't strike me as being particularly useful, but now, being in control of an Old God, through Morrigan's body as its mother?  That might potentially be something Flemeth would do.  Or perhaps Flemeth just wants to be a mother, period.

It struck me as evil to use a child in this way, even unborn, especially when the "false gods" were supposed to be scorned by the Maker and all.  But, if you read the information about the Old Gods, up until they were tainted, most of them didn't seem to be evil (of course we can't be sure that they weren't taking human sacrifices or something, either).  If there were some nasty human-devouring or anything going on, I haven't read it yet (I have yet to read all of the codex info).

Maybe some of the others are right and we'll figure out what's going on with Flemeth when they make a sequel--if they make a sequel.

[Vicious]

The Dragon is Flemeth's real form. I always found it odd that she goes from merely being 'Flemeth' to 'Flemeth the Shapeshifter'



My guess. And yes that opens up a very nasty can of worms.

[PatT2]

A few folks appear to have not read the entire codex....

The Old Gods ARE dragons.
The Arch demons are TAINTED dragons.

They don't start out tainted.
Morrigan wants to have an old god without the taint, and is using you to do so (her mother...hmmm....saved you because....um...)

I believe Flemeth's true form is not human. I think there is a lot of stuff in the codex that points to the idea she's trying to save her own line...

there's so many reasons, most of which you will find in the codex. Maybe Flemeth is the *mother* of the old gods, trying to save her children from the taint? Flemeth was obviously very troubled by the blight. At the mere mention of it, she got Morrigan into line as well. There's something there;....

Modifié par PatT2, 26 novembre 2009 - 04:46 .

[Endurium]

I spared Flemeth but it had no lasting effect as far as the non-mention in the epilogue went. Do what you want, it means nothing in this game. (But imagination is fun.)

[Brass_Buckles]

PatT2 wrote...

A few folks appear to have not read the entire codex....

The Old Gods ARE dragons.
The Arch demons are TAINTED dragons.

They don't start out tainted.
Morrigan wants to have an old god without the taint, and is using you to do so (her mother...hmmm....saved you because....um...)

I believe Flemeth's true form is not human. I think there is a lot of stuff in the codex that points to the idea she's trying to save her own line...

there's so many reasons, most of which you will find in the codex. Maybe Flemeth is the *mother* of the old gods, trying to save her children from the taint? Flemeth was obviously very troubled by the blight. At the mere mention of it, she got Morrigan into line as well. There's something there;....

Um, I don't think I said anything about the Old Gods not being dragons, if you are talking to me?  Only the codex implies that they may have been something more than dragons, much as archdemons look like dragons but no one's 100% sure that's what they really are (maybe because it's not clear if the Old Gods were powerful dragons or something closely related to dragons--perhaps, in fact, truly gods?).  Wasn't at least one of the Old Gods male?  And yet, only female dragons attain that massive size and have wings.  The codex also implies that most of the Old Gods, despite being dragons, were rather cultured, rather than rampaging like High Dragons.  Evil?  Maybe.  The only Old God we know of for sure is the archdemon, and it's hardly in any state to comprehend its original personality.

But yes, without the taint, the soul of an Old God should theoretically still draw darkspawn, unless Flemeth and/or Morrigan knew a way to prevent this.  The darkspawn taint the Old Gods and make them into archdemons.  We know this.  Morrigan and Flemeth do not appear to be on the side of the darkspawn, so therefore it follows that they know some way to prevent the child from being tainted if this were their original plan.  What could Flemeth stand to gain if she's not an Old God herself?  Others suggest that she might have possessed that form.  Maybe she could, but it's the soul that would be powerful; the body would most likely still be human (or half-elf or half-dwarf if you played a male and were the one Morrigan slept with).

As for Flemeth's dragon form name, it's just as possible that it only refers to her as a human shapeshifter as it is that she is a dragon.  My idea that she may be an Old God is pure speculation, though it does make a certain amount of sense.  You could also be right about her being the mother of the Old Gods.  Or, not knowing how old she really is, she could even somehow be the original source of the taint.  It's hard to say, and I suppose we won't know until it's answered with more DLC or a sequel.

[Skellimancer]

I not only didn't kill flemeth but i also destroyed the grimoire.