157 réponses à ce sujet

[Brenon Holmes]

Mister Mida wrote...

Universally loved...

Riiight.

Sarcasm. Perhaps I should have used a different emoticon? Was supposed to be funny... maybe my humor button is broken...

(I do read the forums a fair bit and am aware of the... topics... regarding "overheat")

Modifié par Brenon Holmes, 23 juin 2011 - 08:44 .

[turian councilor Knockout]

Who need thermal clips, we have omni blade now.

[Mister Mida]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

Universally loved...

Riiight.

Sarcasm. Perhaps I should have used a different emoticon? Was supposed to be funny... maybe my humor button is broken...

(I do read the forums a fair bit and am aware of the... topics... regarding "overheat")

Sorry, mister Holmes. It's kinda hard to read sarcasm in text.

[Brenon Holmes]

Dave of Canada wrote...

As somebody who liked Cerberus, does this mean I'll be frowning for 40% of the enemies?

Depends... can you admire someone while shooting them in the face? :happy:

Mister Mida wrote...

Sorry, mister Holmes. It's kinda hard to read sarcasm in text.

 No worries, let's just pretend that it's super late at night and we're not all at peak capacity. :happy: If it helps... I typed that with a sarcastic flair. Even put a bit of spin on the enter key... didn't come through the text even a little?

Modifié par Brenon Holmes, 23 juin 2011 - 08:48 .

[Dave of Canada]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

As somebody who liked Cerberus, does this mean I'll be frowning for 40% of the enemies?

Depends... can you admire someone while shooting them in the face? :happy:

I could try but it would lead to a half-frowny and half-admiration look that would scare people who'd look on as I played.

[Brenon Holmes]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I could try but it would lead to a half-frowny and half-admiration look that would scare people who'd look on as I played.

hahaha

[Mister Mida]

Brennon Homes wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

Sorry, mister Holmes. It's kinda hard to read sarcasm in text.

 No worries, let's just pretend that it's super late at night and we're not all at peak capacity. :happy: If it helps... I typed that with a sarcastic flair. Even put a bit of spin on the enter key... didn't come through the text even a little?

Not really. But that's just me.

Modifié par Mister Mida, 23 juin 2011 - 08:52 .

[Praetor Knight]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

You would of course be referring to the universally loved system that was introduced in ME2 that we mentioned (somewhat frequently) will be making a return in ME3... yes? :happy:

For the record, I like Thermal Clips, and ME2 Combat in general.

But there have been many threads about the clips, and as a result I've probably spent way too much time thinking about improvements and/or compromises with my fellow gamers that don't like them.

I simply wonder if anything has been tossed about with Thermal Clips; like being able to refill the weapons like shields, after taking out a room full of baddies without being required to find Thermal Clips, a Power Cell, or a Weapon Locker immediately after before facing the next roomful.

I'm just curious if there would be some minor tweak like that.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 23 juin 2011 - 08:53 .

[Brenon Holmes]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

For the record, I like Thermal Clips, and ME2 Combat in general.

But there have been many threads about the clips, and as a result I've probably spent way too much time thinking about improvements and/or compromises with my fellow gamers that don't like them.

I simply wonder if anything has been tossed about with Thermal Clips; like being able to refill the weapons like shields, after taking out a room full of baddies without being required to find Thermal Clips, a Power Cell, or a Weapon Locker immediately after before facing the next roomful.

I'm just curious if there would be some minor tweak like that.

I guess it depends on the problem you're trying to solve. If the issue is that you don't like running around after a fight to fill up on clips... there are probably a bunch of ways to address that.

Hopefully that's the problem... because that's what I'll be responding to... if it isn't... uh, ignore everything after this sentence.

So personally I like the fact that if you do extremly well in a given fight, you have an advantage versus someone who did extremely poorly in a given fight. It means there is incentive for getting better at the game, using powers better, using your weapons better, employing better tactics. I think the amount of ammunition you have coming out of a given fight is a small reflection of that.

Refilling all of your ammunition would feel a bit like we'd be taking away some of that persistence, I think.

Alternatively, while we could just "give you" all the clips that are on the ground, that's also something that personally I kind of dislike. I dislike it when games try to help me by doing a lot of stuff for me, but that's more of a personal preference.

All that said... I'll bring it up tomorrow and see what everyone else on the gameplay team thinks. :happy:

Modifié par Brenon Holmes, 23 juin 2011 - 09:15 .

[Mister Mida]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

So personally I like the fact that if you do extremly well in a given
fight, you have an advantage versus someone who did extremely poorly in a
given fight. It means there is incentive for getting better at the
game, using powers better, using your weapons better, employing better
tactics. I think the amount of ammunition you have coming out of a given
fight is a small reflection of that.

Refilling all of your ammunition would feel a bit like we'd be taking away some of that persistence, I think.

But... you are already doing this with the regenerating health. Is that different?

Modifié par Mister Mida, 23 juin 2011 - 09:20 .

[Brenon Holmes]

Mister Mida wrote...

But... you are already doing this with the regenerating health. Is that different?

It depends on how many different resources you want the player to manage... So no it's not really different in kind... It is another lever that we could use to reward or incentivize skillful play and persistence as you move through a level...

However... health is a bit different in that it has a much larger impact than ammunition. Ammunition is dropped by every enemy in the game... medi gel is not.

Going into a fight with low health drastically increases your chances of hearing that lovely DUN DUN DUN DUN death music... whereas I would suggest that going into a fight with low ammunition simply provides an interesting strategic constraint... since you're not bound by having to find a medi gel dispenser (and hoping desperately that the level designer wasn't a ****** and didn't put any in until the end of the level). :happy:

Modifié par Brenon Holmes, 23 juin 2011 - 09:41 .

[Praetor Knight]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

I guess it depends on the problem you're trying to solve. If the issue is that you don't like running around after a fight to fill up on clips... there are probably a bunch of ways to address that.

Hopefully that's the problem... because that's what I'll be responding to... if it isn't... uh, ignore everything after this sentence.

So personally I like the fact that if you do extremly well in a given fight, you have an advantage versus someone who did extremely poorly in a given fight. It means there is incentive for getting better at the game, using powers better, using your weapons better, employing better tactics. I think the amount of ammunition you have coming out of a given fight is a small reflection of that.

Refilling all of your ammunition would feel a bit like we'd be taking away some of that persistence, I think.

Alternatively, while we could just "give you" all the clips that are on the ground, that's also something that personally I kind of dislike. I dislike it when games try to help me by doing a lot of stuff for me, but that's more of a personal preference.

All that said... I'll bring it up tomorrow and see what everyone else on the gameplay team thinks. :happy:

Awesome that works for me, I'm actually surprised it's such a popular topic sometimes.

I'd rather focus on other things, like my armor or who's gonna be the main enemies in ME3.


But, I need to explain the context a bit more, about the idea I put in my earlier post.
It was more a compromise idea, between having "infinite" ammo in ME1, to "finite" ammo in ME2, since that point comes up so often around here regarding weapons. I'm fine with how ME2 has it setup either way.


The only thing that I'd like to know is how do the numbers in the HUD represent the total shots you have? I've assumed those numbers represent what's stored inside of the guns, [which is also why I assume that one can not transfer capacity from your SMG to Pistol, for example];

I also figure that a Thermal Clip carries some form of many small heat sink 'thingys' that are transferred to the weapons (and that Thermal Clips might not actually go inside the guns, like a stripper clip speedloader, that idea comes from reading the SMG and Shotgun ammo upgrade :innocent:).
Anyway enough of that



And thanks, rock on!

[Seeker Sparrow]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Going into a fight with low health drastically increases your chances of hearing that lovely DUN DUN DUN DUN death music... whereas I would suggest that going into a fight with low ammunition simply provides an interesting strategic constraint... since you're not bound by having to find a medi gel dispenser (and hoping desperately that the level designer wasn't a ****** and didn't put any in until the end of the level). :happy:

I'm assuming medi-gel is going to play a similar role as it did in ME2? Also liking the idea of using the rest of your talents in order to win certain battles and having to earn those ammo pickups.

Excitement meter is rising today.

[onelifecrisis]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

For the record, I like Thermal Clips, and ME2 Combat in general.

But there have been many threads about the clips, and as a result I've probably spent way too much time thinking about improvements and/or compromises with my fellow gamers that don't like them.

I simply wonder if anything has been tossed about with Thermal Clips; like being able to refill the weapons like shields, after taking out a room full of baddies without being required to find Thermal Clips, a Power Cell, or a Weapon Locker immediately after before facing the next roomful.

I'm just curious if there would be some minor tweak like that.

I guess it depends on the problem you're trying to solve. If the issue is that you don't like running around after a fight to fill up on clips... there are probably a bunch of ways to address that.

Hopefully that's the problem... because that's what I'll be responding to... if it isn't... uh, ignore everything after this sentence.

So personally I like the fact that if you do extremly well in a given fight, you have an advantage versus someone who did extremely poorly in a given fight. It means there is incentive for getting better at the game, using powers better, using your weapons better, employing better tactics. I think the amount of ammunition you have coming out of a given fight is a small reflection of that.

Refilling all of your ammunition would feel a bit like we'd be taking away some of that persistence, I think.

Alternatively, while we could just "give you" all the clips that are on the ground, that's also something that personally I kind of dislike. I dislike it when games try to help me by doing a lot of stuff for me, but that's more of a personal preference.

All that said... I'll bring it up tomorrow and see what everyone else on the gameplay team thinks. :happy:

Any chance you could tell us a little about what's being done (if anything) with sniper rounds? In ME2 you very quickly run out of ammo with a Mantis, a problem exacerbated by the fact that each clip only restores 1 bullet. It's almost as if the game is trying to prevent snipers from being able to snipe all the time.

[Apollo Starflare]

Putting it simply what I am getting the impression of here is that Cerberus will big the main opponant for just under the first half of the game, whilst we are running scared from the Reapers barely able to harm them anyway, whereaupon we will get to the bottom of the Cerberus plotline and resolve it in a set piece at roughly the mid way point. Leaving a more than sizable chunk of the game dominated by presumably Reaper spawn and their other allies (Heretics we have already seen, mercs have been mentioned).

I do still want to know a good reason why Cerberus is so messed up, but at this point I've accepted having to wait for the game. Ever since they were revealed as an enemy I pretty much presumed it would have the relative composition shown in this thread.

[Akizora]

Keeping empty thermal clips and allowing to "refill" them with whatever material or chemical is used to keep the weapon cool at various "ammo stations" that show up more frequently than gunlockers, would be a solution to the problem of running out of ammo.

Or allowing each weapon a counterpart where you have unlimited ammo but weaker ammo, meaning you cannot use ammo powers on it and it takes more bullets to kill. That way a player with little skill in aiming that often wastes a lot of ammo spraying and praying can still be able to play the game with one advantage and one disadvantage (like myself).

[matt-bassist]

maybe TIM will contact you and you can still work for Cerberus, just a large portion of the group is indoctrinated?

oooo maybe a squaddie will get indoctrinated and youll be forced to kill them?

[rft]

From the demo I saw, they were killing Husks, geth, cerberus agents, cannibles and many more that we haen't saw yet.

[Wulfram]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

And here I thought people would be excited about enemy composition...

I suspect that most "discontent" stems from incorrect assumptions about game enemy composition.

I just preferred it in ME1, when Cerberus hadn't taken over the entire setting.  There are so many cool things in Mass Effect, so it's a shame you seem determined to focus on something that rather bores me.

Modifié par Wulfram, 23 juin 2011 - 02:55 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

I can't remember quite off the top of my head... but I think Cerberus accounts for 40-ish percent?

Is that 40% of the enemies total, or 40% of the levels/missions? And is that the primary story missions, or story and side missions both?

The distinction could matter in the same sense of the Geth in ME1. While you fought Geth in every story mission, they also weren't the only enemies around: they shared space with husks, krogan, Rachni, turrets, and other enemies in the levels they were in. So the % of missions with Geth was probably a fair bit higher than the actual number of geth enemies in the game.

[MadLaughter]

40% also seems like a huge number. I guess you could say that in ME2 you fought mercenaries about 50% of the time, with geth, bots, husks and collectors making up the other 50%, so maybe the variety will be fine. Still, all of the mercenaries were different factions. Cerberus is just one faction, I hope it doesn't get redundant. There was something to be said for all the different colored mercenaries you could fight.

[Eurhetemec]

MadLaughter wrote...

40% also seems like a huge number. I guess you could say that in ME2 you fought mercenaries about 50% of the time, with geth, bots, husks and collectors making up the other 50%, so maybe the variety will be fine. Still, all of the mercenaries were different factions. Cerberus is just one faction, I hope it doesn't get redundant. There was something to be said for all the different colored mercenaries you could fight.

Yeah, it seems absolutely gigantic to me. I suspect the ME2 figure was more like 60% Mercs, but as you say, there were three very distinct groups of Mercs, each with it's own look, outfits, and most importantly - gameplay. Fighting Blood Pack with their armour, regen, Krogan charges, varren and so on is very different to fighting Blue Suns with their shields, rocket-launcher-obsession, and the like.

Even with the info that there are more different kinds of Cerberus enemy than there were Mercs (certainly in any two Merc factions), it seems like, visually, it would get pretty boring. Here are yet more guys in black/white armour!

I know ME1 got away with it with the Geth, but I don't think that was a good thing. Hopefully there will be different Cerberus sub-groups at least, and that by the time all the ME3 DLC is done, it's down to more like 25% of the total fights in the game.

Brenon Holmes wrote...

However... health is a bit
different in that it has a much larger impact than ammunition.
Ammunition is dropped by every enemy in the game... medi gel is not.

In ME3, I presume you mean? Because that's explictly not the case in ME2. Only humanoid, gun-using enemies have a *chance* to drop ammo in ME2. And I'm not sure if Collectors do, either. Husks, varren, and the like certainly don't.

Hell,
this is an important factor in the design of several levels, most
obviously the Derelict Reaper, where BioWare's level designers had to
put in lots of little regenerating "ammo dumps".

These don't, I'd
suggest "reward good play and doing well in combat". They reward
back-tracking and slow progress. Someone who keeps going back for ammo
(which seems to regen regularly) will do better, ammo-wise than someone
who fights superb-ly, but doesn't backtrack. In other places it's impossible to recover the ammo that drops, like in the "Get Archangel" mission, where again, ammo dumps through Archangel's base are used.

Hopefully this won't be as frequent an occurrence in ME3.

[MadLaughter]

Yeah, 60% is probably closer to right. I originally had it at 80% and then went "Wait a minute, no way!"

[Bluko]

Well 40% Cerberus enemy composition to me says 4 out of 10 missions will feature Cerberus. Seems a bit much. I mean sure I don't want to fight 60% Husks, but do the Reapers really not having any kind of infantry? I mean yeah they got Indoctrination towards that end, but still you'd think they'd have some sort of intial ground troops. How else do they magically round up people and turn them into Husks in the first place?

I dunno perhaps it will make more sense in context. I suspected Cerberus would be an enemy in ME3, but one that is very elusive and maybe only shows up to make surprise attacks (so 20-30% of the time).

Brenon Holmes wrote...

I guess it depends on the problem you're trying to solve. If the issue is that you don't like running around after a fight to fill up on clips... there are probably a bunch of ways to address that.

Hopefully that's the problem... because that's what I'll be responding to... if it isn't... uh, ignore everything after this sentence.

So personally I like the fact that if you do extremly well in a given fight, you have an advantage versus someone who did extremely poorly in a given fight. It means there is incentive for getting better at the game, using powers better, using your weapons better, employing better tactics. I think the amount of ammunition you have coming out of a given fight is a small reflection of that.

Well my main problem with Thermal Clips is even if I manage to successfully headshot every Vorcha that comes my way with a Sniper Rifle I have to spend a lot more time looking for clips (and it's rare I can actually get full ammo doing so after an encounter). With an Assault Rifle/SMG I only have to pick a couple clips and I'm fully replenished. The other "secondary" weapons are bit more greedy on clips.

I really don't find ammo capacity a measure of skill. It's merely a limitation. One that is often indicative also of how many enemies I'll be expected to fight at a given time. Even if make every single round contact I'll still need to look for ammo at some point. Really all the ammo limitation does is enforce the idea that you shouldn't miss. And while for some games that's good (Survival Horror) it's really rather pointless in most others. Either the enemies are dangerous enough that you need to kill them ASAP or they aren't.

I'd much rather die in a game then ever run out of ammo. Better to die fighting being overwhelmed because I can't aim fast enough or hit anything, rather then simply run out of ammo and do nothing as I watch the game screen. Challenge players, but don't make it so there are circumstances where they are potentially helpless. That's not fun. And it's not really a challenge of skill then, but rather management. (Which seems counter to the idealogy you guys have with the game in general.)

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Anyone else afraid that Cerberus/TIM will be ME3's First enchanter Orsino?