91 réponses à ce sujet

[yaw]

Why is it that you can make a name for yourself in Kirkwall due to your wealth, set yourself all cosy in a Hightown mansion, interact with templars of varying ranks and attitudes all over the place without them raising an eyebrow, all without being caught and dragged off to the Circle?

Even if we imagine that the robes, huge staff and fireballs wern't an obvious giveaway, of all the enemies you make in each act (or the people you just ****** off), noone thinks to alert the Templars and have them take you in?

I can understand avoiding them in Act 1 - you're just a refugee, living in Lowtown, and noone really knows who you are. But afterwards? Bethany doesn't manage to get to Act 2 before being dragged away to the circle. Yet you never face any sort of opposition?  Carver mentions that you're running from the Templars, but there's 0 evidence of this.

Anders and Merill I can forgive - Anders is very much aware he's in danger of being caught, and Merill keeps to herself and the mirror in the Alienage. But it makes no sense for mage Hawke. 

Perhaps in Act 3, as the Champion, the Templars turn a blind eye to you. But in Act 2, when you're simply a rich guy who's been busy in the city, there's no reason you're shouldn't be a hunted apostate. 

Did the devlopers simply decide to skip over this issue? I thought in a game that is ultimatly about Mages vs Templars, being a mage would have an impact on the story.

I won't even start about the issue of being able to be a blood mage without any commentary on it whatsoever.

[quaresma_Pt]

yaw wrote...

Why is it that you can make a name for yourself in Kirkwall due to your wealth, set yourself all cosy in a Hightown mansion, interact with templars of varying ranks and attitudes all over the place without them raising an eyebrow, all without being caught and dragged off to the Circle?

Even if we imagine that the robes, huge staff and fireballs wern't an obvious giveaway, of all the enemies you make in each act (or the people you just ****** off), noone thinks to alert the Templars and have them take you in?

I can understand avoiding them in Act 1 - you're just a refugee, living in Lowtown, and noone really knows who you are. But afterwards? Bethany doesn't manage to get to Act 2 before being dragged away to the circle. Yet you never face any sort of opposition?  Carver mentions that you're running from the Templars, but there's 0 evidence of this.

Anders and Merill I can forgive - Anders is very much aware he's in danger of being caught, and Merill keeps to herself and the mirror in the Alienage. But it makes no sense for mage Hawke. 

Perhaps in Act 3, as the Champion, the Templars turn a blind eye to you. But in Act 2, when you're simply a rich guy who's been busy in the city, there's no reason you're shouldn't be a hunted apostate. 

Did the devlopers simply decide to skip over this issue? I thought in a game that is ultimatly about Mages vs Templars, being a mage would have an impact on the story.

I won't even start about the issue of being able to be a blood mage without any commentary on it whatsoever.

 Man everbody knows, bioware had some newbie problems. Like that one. .

 what can we say?

  Mage or warrior it s the same.

[LobselVith8]

yaw wrote...

Did the devlopers simply decide to skip over this issue? I thought in a game that is ultimatly about Mages vs Templars, being a mage would have an impact on the story.

I won't even start about the issue of being able to be a blood mage without any commentary on it whatsoever.

Pretty much. The developers didn't provide any effort into giving an apostate POV for an illegal mage Hawke, and we never get to experience what it's like for a mage living outside the Circle of Magi since Hawke is an "invisible mage" throughout Acts I and II, and has the plot provide him with the title of Champion to have everyone ignore that he's now known as a mage.

The Mage Pack has attire that was once worn by Malcolm Hawke, which makes Hawke look less obvious if he (or she) is a mage. It could be inferred that Malcolm taught Hawke martial skills to hide his magical ability, but this is never made explicit in the storyline, which would have helped explain how Hawke is defeating enemies in the middle of the Gallows without guards or templars giving too much concern.

[Huntress]

I have many questions aswell, yes some things are just wierd.

Exemple:
how come a noble-blood-mage live in the best part of high town and yet never been caught.. You have to find him help or kill him.. BUT the templars never care for him... isn't that wierd?

Mages can't have titles I know that, but Hawke still has an uncle and Mother, so magehawke can live in high town and Meredith said: she over looked at you been a mage because you were helping? If am wrong then me sorry! I thought that was she said to my mages.

Any way, yes I found many things that make no sense at all in this life or the next. lol!

[Torax]

Cullen wouldn't report Hawke since Hawke was helping to root out the Blood Mage Infiltration attempts on the Order. Meredith would have been informed of this as well. Initially it is implied that the first year it's Athenril or the Mercs who pay a lot to keep you out of the scrutiny of the Order. It probably also helps that you have a close friend with in the Guards who even becomes the Captain mid Act 1. Yes Hawke kills many people but it's generally in self defense and they're criminals. So I think that would put Hawke as one of the lesser issues for the Meredith. Granted she probably hated herself in Act 3 for calling Hawke "Champion" in Act 2.

Since Av was in the guard before your year was up. It could even be assumed that she put efforts into making sure the Guards knew that Hawke was doing them a favor. Lets not forget many of the sarcastic comments you can give Aveline about her being a guard and not letting you have fun.

[caradoc2000]

It would make playing the game a bit more problematic if your character was locked up in the Gallows.

[JamieCOTC]

Game logic. Sometimes things just don't make any damned sense.

[dragonflight288]

Varic is bribing the templars.

[Nightwriter]

I feel like if they had made playing mage Hawke as personal and engaging as I felt it deserved, playing a non-mage Hawke would lose all value for me.

[haroldhardluck]

yaw wrote...
Why is it that you can make a name for yourself in Kirkwall due to your wealth, set yourself all cosy in a Hightown mansion, interact with templars of varying ranks and attitudes all over the place without them raising an eyebrow, all without being caught and dragged off to the Circle?

For the same reason that Charlie Sheen can openly use coke without ever being arrested. Or why Mariska Hargitay had a get out of jail free card for playing a policewoman on TV that she once used to get out of a speeding ticket.

Rank has its privileges. And friends in high places are good to have.

In act 2,  he has the favor of the Vicount.

By act 3 everyone knows Hawke is an apostate but he is also the Champion who saved the city. The head cleric is his friend. Many nobles owed their lives to him. He helped Meredith defeat the Qunari. Too many people owe Hawke their lives.

There are plenty of examples in real life where people get away with acts that most people would get arrested for. Recently a local news station reported that legislators in California regularly only get cited when caught DUI when it is normal to arrest ordinary people for the same crime. So this aspect of the game is very realistic.

Harold

[Nerevar-as]

Yet Eamon is one of the most influencial people in Ferelden, depending on the game even the king´s right hand, and he must send Connor to the Circle anyways. In much stricter Kirkwall, Hawke has hardly any problems. DA2 has the worst lore - gameplay segregation I´ve come across.

[EmbryMay]

I don't think favour of the Viscount would be enough - it's basically said, as you arrived in Kirkwall, that the Viscount never does anything against Meredith - he doesn't dare. So maybe, yes, you could argue Hawke 'saved' his son from the non-existant threat of Qunari (and the much more real threat of that merc after the bounty) but can you imagine that if Meredith wanted Hawke imprisoned, the Viscount could dare stand up to her?

I think the problem is, to have made the game indepth enough that as a Mage Hawke did have to run from the templars, it would have messed it up when you were playing as a Warrior or a Rogue. I do think it's one of the sad things, I adored the game, I'm not bashing it, but maybe it should have been considered. I mean, I openly used magic in front of Cullen to rescue him from abominations, he has never met my character before and she's wielding a staff and casting spells - and yet there is no comment. Even a 'I shall say nothing, as I am in your debt, you saved my life' might have made it marginally more believable. Instead, Cullen failed to notice the two mages involved in that battle (Anders was there too) - which maybe explains it.

Templars are really really dumb. And blind.

[Morroian]

yaw wrote...

Why is it that you can make a name for yourself in Kirkwall due to your wealth, set yourself all cosy in a Hightown mansion, interact with templars of varying ranks and attitudes all over the place without them raising an eyebrow, all without being caught and dragged off to the Circle?

There are hints that Varric is paying off the templars. 

[blaidfiste]

It would have been nice if your group was attacked by templars while travelling. Not just because of apostate Hawke but also Anders and Merrill. Cullen, Emeric and Thrask should recognize the group's mages in combat and say why they will leave you alone.

Casting blood magic with Merrill, Fenris, Anders or Carver should trigger a conversation resulting in max rivalry or friendship.

Until then, you're better off rogue or warrior rp wise.

[FieryDove]

EmbryMay wrote...

Templars are really really dumb. And blind.

I do believe this is mostly true.

Not just with mage hawke but no one but me noticed in act 3 Merediths sword of doom complete with evil looking skull.

[Nightdragon8]

the way i see is this. Warning Text wall. (scroll down for short answer)

Act 1 really the "real" fight with Cullen around you didn't use your magic at all. Just used the staff like a Quarterstaff. And if you did use any magic it was only to incress your STR by a small amount. So they are none the wiser about you being a mage. Also during Act 1 while you may have used magic in front of him I think he was too much in shock really to care that you are using magic to kill people. He also understands you are doing it to save his life. So mainly during Act 1 your under the radar.

Now with a Non-mage PC, Beathany gets halled away because I suspect that Varric was helping her stay hidden. As he said "your secert is safe with me," I also get the feeling that Varric Liked Beathany or at least had a soft spot for her. So I wouldn't doubt he would have set up a web to keep her out of the templars eyes. Maybe only enough for the trip, and maybe Barten had a hand in that or maybe an unknowing hand. As it seems Bartreand packed up and left in a hurry, which means he took people Varric would use for his bribes and misdirects. Anders was protected by the Freladans and probably most of darktown. It seems its the kind of place you can disapper without too much problem.

Act 2: Hawke really had no reason to use magic. The clothes can be played off as the "style of clothes of rich forealdans wear. The staff could be told as a weapon useing one of Varrics stories. (the power of rumors is not to be underestmated) Also the Estate allowed them status to give Hawke a sheild to hide behind. Because I don't think the nobles would like to give the Templars a legal reason to just randomly enter someone's house. I mean look at the letters that Depreae got as an apology for the guards and the templar storming in and searching the house. So if anything the guard and the templars and Meradith herself would put a hold on raiding peoples houses, explecly the rich.

Meredith didn't "mind" you being a mage when she
found you staggering in the street. And she said she would look over it
for the moment. Bigger problems at hand and all. Then you go in and able to save the day.

Act 3 you are the big hero of the generation. Any move on Meredith's part to hall you to the gallows to lock you up would be a political "mealstorm" You would have nobles on the street demanding the release of the Champion. And you may end up getting some factions taking arms and killing Templars "Just doing there job" over 1 mage. Also that mage in question while have done some "illegal" things isn't shown himself to be a bloodmage, and in general has helped more than hurt the city. So now you are proteceted by the title Champion.

EP: Now depending if you picked Mages or Templar side. If you pick Templar even a mage hawke can become a Vicount. And Cullan is the first to kneel before you.

Short Answer: You in the "real" fight didn't use magic with Templar's around and everyone else who could tell died to your magic use.  Anders protected because of the "Low people" that he have been giving free care. Meriall because she keeps to herself, and no one really vists the Alienage anyway. Beath gets locked up because Varric wasn't there to save her.

[Chiramu]

I wish I could've played a Mage Hawke that constantly teased the templars, by using magic in front of them and then playing hide and seek XD.
I so wish I could play with the templars lolz.

But it doesn't make much sense at all in game.

[macrocarl]

Meredeth says she will overlook the fact that MageHawke is an Apostate right before you go in and deal with the Arishok in Act 2. Before that you're not really doing any fighting out in front of people who would care/ live after the battle and starting in Act 3, especially if you start backing the Templars, they totally leave you alone. Which makes sense because they're trying to regain order and having the Champion on your side is good PR. It would've been cool to mess with the Templars if you were being that kind of mage. But I think it works, RP-wise, for the type of character who wants revenge on the crazy lunatics that murdered Hawke's mom. (Not to mention Anders going full frontal terrorist at the end). 

[Torax]

Varric would have helped keeping Hawke out of the Circle/Chantry's cross hairs. The Chantry overall woudln't harass Hawke. The Revered Mother knew Hawke's family well and seemed to acknowledge the good deeds Hawke does despite the violence. Hawke does what to a point the Chantry cannot. Aveline is with the Guard and generally the Guards would like someone going around killing gangs and criminals at night so they don't have to. The Templars have enough angry Blood Mages out for them. They would give Hawke a pass for helping root out Tarohne and her ilk as an example. Before you even meet Varric, your previous employer paid the bribes and made the measures so their favorite apostate could keep doing a great job that their current workers are not able to match up to.

btw, Varric looks out for many of the companions. It's to his benefit and in general he likes most of them. He would have a harder time keeping the Templars, Circle and Couterie off Anders than just the Templars/Circle from Hawke. He tries to help Bethany, Aveline does to. I wager even Isabela would have done some measures. Varric is the one who does the most. Like looking out for Fenris, Merrill and so on. He's just a nice guy really. Who could even rivalry him?

[haroldhardluck]

EmbryMay wrote...
I don't think favour of the Viscount would be enough - it's basically said, as you arrived in Kirkwall, that the Viscount never does anything against Meredith - he doesn't dare.
 

And Meredith doesn't do anything against the Vicount either. Note that it is not until the vicount is dead that Meredith dares to start taking over the government. They are too equal in power and any confrontation risks mutual destruction. Furthermore the vicount is the rightful ruler of Kirkwall and a naked power play by Meredith risks the other city state rulers coming to the aid of the vicount  to preserve their independence.

Given the qunari presence, Meredith certainly is not going to risk open war with the vicount. Act 2 is all about the qunari threat and even Meredith knows that is a threat that must be dealt with first.

Harold

[Faust1979]

 you could go through the Mage circle in the first Dragon Age with Morrigan and the templars don't do anything 

[Aradace]

Because no one wants to play a Hawke that gets dragged off to the circle. Because no one wants to play a Hawke that has to "hide" his/her abilities. Because I dont know about you, the moment a templar even so much as thought about dragging me off to the cirlce, I'd incinerate him, and every templar in Kirkwall that attempted to do the same.

If you want a game that pays THAT much attention to detail, then perhaps Dragon Age isnt for you and perhaps you need to find a game that does. In fact, might I suggest Morrowind or Oblivion? "Factions" in Dragon Age would just be stupid IMO. There are games where factions work but Dragon Age is not one of them.

[TJPags]

Because people want to play as a mage. And it would have been too much trouble to actually, you know, put consequences on playing that type of character.

So, Kirkwall just ignores Hawke being a mage. Go rescue Cullen with 3 mages in your party . . .his lack of comment about it is thunderous.

[Torax]

If we're talking about Origins.

The Player is a Grey Warden. They are basically trusted Guardians. The Templars would not question a Grey Warden or their companions as long as they do not witness them doing something inherently vindictive or evil. Think of them as a neutral protector of all living beings as many would see them. The Grey Wardens sacrifice greatly so that life can continue to exist despite the darkspawn. Mages have been in the Grey Wardens before and this is not a secret. So Morrigan would not be questioned because of her affiliation with the Warden. Just like they don't question a giant talking Golem that keeps wanting to smash fleshy people...

Cullen doesn't complain in DA2 because you helped him kill a Templar who turned into an abomination right in front of him. You were going there to investigate the same thing he was. You were on the same side from his point of view. Even though you and your party are mages, he has no reason to bother you. Especially if you offer to go to the brothel to find out what happened there...

Modifié par Torax, 20 juin 2011 - 11:24 .