91 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

The game recognizes you as an apostate... That there isn't an immediate Templar retaliation whenever you cast a spell is simply because that wouldn't be a very enjoyable game.
Besides, you only ever cast a spell in front of Templars, who aren't hostile, once. So that entire argument kinda goes down the drain. And the one encounter we do have, can be explained by the Templar fighitng magical creatures, and being focused on fighting than seeing who chucked which spell.
And I can only think of a single encounter where you cast spells in front of guards aswell. Which is harder to justify, but perhaps the guard was simply grateful for being alive.

And the scene with Wynne was INTENTIONALLY disabled, while with Jowan it was caused by a bug. If you do not know the difference between the two, then I'm glad you aren't the one keeping track of the lore.

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The game recognizes you as an apostate... That there isn't an immediate Templar retaliation whenever you cast a spell is simply because that wouldn't be a very enjoyable game.
Besides, you only ever cast a spell in front of Templars, who aren't hostile, once. So that entire argument kinda goes down the drain. And the one encounter we do have, can be explained by the Templar fighitng magical creatures, and being focused on fighting than seeing who chucked which spell.
And I can only think of a single encounter where you cast spells in front of guards aswell. Which is harder to justify, but perhaps the guard was simply grateful for being alive.

And the scene with Wynne was INTENTIONALLY disabled, while with Jowan it was caused by a bug. If you do not know the difference between the two, then I'm glad you aren't the one keeping track of the lore.

Hawke casts spells in the Gallows, he casts spells in front of Ser Thrask, he casts spells in front of Cullen, and even Keran is present when Hawke is arguing with Carver about the fact that Hawke is a mage but seems to be completely deaf to what he's hearing.

And the scene was only disabled because it bugged the Landsmeet; both scenerios I addressed are bugged, except the developers intentionally disabled this aspect of the quest because of a bug.

[EmperorSahlertz]

A mage casting spells in the Gallows is hardly uncommon... And Cullen were the one I was talking about of the Templars. Which could be attributed to fighitng demons. Thrask is another case though, but perhaps he simply realzie the potential ally in Hawke, which could be of more use outside than inside the Gallows.
And, as is normally used in fiction, characters are almost always completely deaf to anything not directly affecting them, so Keran not hearing Carver, is not an inconsistency, but simply a habit within the media.

And Wynne's scene was removed before release, and was never intended to be incorporated into the game again. Jowan's scene was however intended to be a part of the game, however there were an unforseen bug. But no, Jowan's scene could also be considered non-canon, since no player has ever witnessed it, without using thirdparty addons.
Basically anything which isn't in the game, and can't be accessed without using a thirdparty modification of the game, can be considered non-canon.

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

A mage casting spells in the Gallows is hardly uncommon... And Cullen were the one I was talking about of the Templars. Which could be attributed to fighitng demons. Thrask is another case though, but perhaps he simply realzie the potential ally in Hawke, which could be of more use outside than inside the Gallows.
And, as is normally used in fiction, characters are almost always completely deaf to anything not directly affecting them, so Keran not hearing Carver, is not an inconsistency, but simply a habit within the media.

And Wynne's scene was removed before release, and was never intended to be incorporated into the game again. Jowan's scene was however intended to be a part of the game, however there were an unforseen bug. But no, Jowan's scene could also be considered non-canon, since no player has ever witnessed it, without using thirdparty addons.
Basically anything which isn't in the game, and can't be accessed without using a thirdparty modification of the game, can be considered non-canon.

I don't see any mages casting spells in the courtyard of the Gallows, so I don't see how you can claim it's common.

Cullen never identifies Hawke as a mage, Thrask never identifies Hawke as a mage, and even Keran never mentions that Hawke is a mage. There's an apostate POV for an illegal mage Hawke.

Wynne's blood mage scene was disabled because of a bug with the Landsmeet, it wasn't disabled because of the content of the dialogue.

[WidowMaker9394]

Saving Cullen by spamming fireballs and lightning.
No reaction.
Wtf.

[RangerSG]

WidowMaker9394 wrote...

Saving Cullen by spamming fireballs and lightning.
No reaction.
Wtf.

Been addressed, multiple times. He's surrounded by demons. Could he really be sure one of THEM didn't do it? 

And the Gallows scene's been addressed too. City Guards there at the time, not Templars. A guard whose life you saved and is quite grateful for said fact.

And Thrask had an apostate for a DAUGHTER. So he hardly is the type to bring in mages on his own initiative. So in fact, there's already a valid story reason for him NOT to turn you in. Oh, not to mention you had the evidence of his apostate daughter, and I'm sure his betraying your trust, when you're there to save his skin and dignity, would be grounds for revoking your little gentleman's agreement.

There are issues, but the scenes that are commonly brought up just aren't as difficult to hand wave as most claim.

[macrocarl]

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

A mage casting spells in the Gallows is hardly uncommon... And Cullen were the one I was talking about of the Templars. Which could be attributed to fighitng demons. Thrask is another case though, but perhaps he simply realzie the potential ally in Hawke, which could be of more use outside than inside the Gallows.
And, as is normally used in fiction, characters are almost always completely deaf to anything not directly affecting them, so Keran not hearing Carver, is not an inconsistency, but simply a habit within the media.

And Wynne's scene was removed before release, and was never intended to be incorporated into the game again. Jowan's scene was however intended to be a part of the game, however there were an unforseen bug. But no, Jowan's scene could also be considered non-canon, since no player has ever witnessed it, without using thirdparty addons.
Basically anything which isn't in the game, and can't be accessed without using a thirdparty modification of the game, can be considered non-canon.

I don't see any mages casting spells in the courtyard of the Gallows, so I don't see how you can claim it's common.

Cullen never identifies Hawke as a mage, Thrask never identifies Hawke as a mage, and even Keran never mentions that Hawke is a mage. There's an apostate POV for an illegal mage Hawke.

Wynne's blood mage scene was disabled because of a bug with the Landsmeet, it wasn't disabled because of the content of the dialogue.

Cullen identifies Hawke as a mage in Act 3. He doesn't have a pointy thing over him to know to go talk to him but if you 'catch up with him' (I think that's the phrasology) he says something to the effect that Mage Hawke is the only mage allowed to get so closedd to Meredith.

I'm certain Keran doesn't make mention about Hawke being a mage, but I'm not sure why he would story wise? What's interesting about Thrask is in Act 1 if you fake your way out of 'An Act of Mercy' by letting Varric come up with a phony story, you tell Thrask and other bad guy Templar man that you're from some other circle of mages on investigation. So you actually tell Thrask who then is super thankful to Hawke for avoiding a blood bath and he never brings up Hawke's apostate status again to the best of my knowledge.

[RangerSG]

macrocarl wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

A mage casting spells in the Gallows is hardly uncommon... And Cullen were the one I was talking about of the Templars. Which could be attributed to fighitng demons. Thrask is another case though, but perhaps he simply realzie the potential ally in Hawke, which could be of more use outside than inside the Gallows.
And, as is normally used in fiction, characters are almost always completely deaf to anything not directly affecting them, so Keran not hearing Carver, is not an inconsistency, but simply a habit within the media.

And Wynne's scene was removed before release, and was never intended to be incorporated into the game again. Jowan's scene was however intended to be a part of the game, however there were an unforseen bug. But no, Jowan's scene could also be considered non-canon, since no player has ever witnessed it, without using thirdparty addons.
Basically anything which isn't in the game, and can't be accessed without using a thirdparty modification of the game, can be considered non-canon.

I don't see any mages casting spells in the courtyard of the Gallows, so I don't see how you can claim it's common.

Cullen never identifies Hawke as a mage, Thrask never identifies Hawke as a mage, and even Keran never mentions that Hawke is a mage. There's an apostate POV for an illegal mage Hawke.

Wynne's blood mage scene was disabled because of a bug with the Landsmeet, it wasn't disabled because of the content of the dialogue.

Cullen identifies Hawke as a mage in Act 3. He doesn't have a pointy thing over him to know to go talk to him but if you 'catch up with him' (I think that's the phrasology) he says something to the effect that Mage Hawke is the only mage allowed to get so closedd to Meredith.

I'm certain Keran doesn't make mention about Hawke being a mage, but I'm not sure why he would story wise? What's interesting about Thrask is in Act 1 if you fake your way out of 'An Act of Mercy' by letting Varric come up with a phony story, you tell Thrask and other bad guy Templar man that you're from some other circle of mages on investigation. So you actually tell Thrask who then is super thankful to Hawke for avoiding a blood bath and he never brings up Hawke's apostate status again to the best of my knowledge.

Yep, Cullen does note that if you 'chat' with him between quests, or if you take a branch in one of the investigation lines during the Captain's quest.

You can't even be sure Keran is 'awake' to see Hawke casting spells from his cage. It's one of your companions who 'tests' him, and Cullen is quick not to pursue that line, because it does no one any good.

And you're right about Thrask, which also would provide Hawke cover until he's rich enough to cover himself. That's even if you think Thrask is the "turn people in" kind of Templar, all evidence to the contrary.

[LobselVith8]

RangerSG wrote...

WidowMaker9394 wrote...

Saving Cullen by spamming fireballs and lightning.
No reaction.
Wtf.

Been addressed, multiple times. He's surrounded by demons. Could he really be sure one of THEM didn't do it? 

That sounds like a pretty flimpsy excuse. How can you claim that Cullen couldn't see what's going on around him? He's being attacked by an abomination templar and demons, there's nothing wrong with his eyes. Cullen should be able to see an apostate Hawke using magic, as well as possible apostate companions using magic as well. To say that Cullen can't tell the difference would require Cullen to be unable to see what's going on around him, and that's clearly not the case since Cullen knows that Hawke helped save his life. Cullen is fighting alongside an apostate Hawke, and possibly other apostates as well, against a plethora of demons. There's no logical reason Cullen couldn't see a mage Hawke using magic right in front of him, or other apostates using magic.

RangerSG wrote...

And the Gallows scene's been addressed too. City Guards there at the time, not Templars. A guard whose life you saved and is quite grateful for said fact.

A number of city guards are there, as well as refugees and a store keeper, are present as well. You're telling me all of them simply kept quiet because one single guard owed Hawke his life?

RangerSG wrote...

And Thrask had an apostate for a DAUGHTER. So he hardly is the type to bring in mages on his own initiative. So in fact, there's already a valid story reason for him NOT to turn you in. Oh, not to mention you had the evidence of his apostate daughter, and I'm sure his betraying your trust, when you're there to save his skin and dignity, would be grounds for revoking your little gentleman's agreement.

The problem isn't that Thrask wouldn't turn Hawke in, it's that Thrask never even mentions that Hawke is an apostate like his daughter. He seems to be as blind to Hawke being an illegal mage as virtually everyone else is until Hawke is Champion of Kirkwall, where it no longer matters.

macrocarl wrote...

Cullen identifies Hawke as a mage in Act 3. He doesn't have a pointy thing over him to know to go talk to him but if you 'catch up with him' (I think that's the phrasology) he says something to the effect that Mage Hawke is the only mage allowed to get so closedd to Meredith.

Everyone knows that Hawke is a mage by Act III. The problem is that we're denied an apostate POV because virtually everyone seems to be blind to this fact until Hawke becomes Champion of Kirkwall, when it no longer matters that he's known to be a mage because he's a popular figure among the people of the city-state.

macrocarl wrote...

I'm certain Keran doesn't make mention about Hawke being a mage, but I'm not sure why he would story wise?

Keran says he thinks the mages all want to crush the templars when he's speaking to Cullen, and Hawke is the one who can argue against this line of thinking. Considering that Keran was captured and tortured by a group of insane mages, I don't see why Keran wouldn't at least be surprised that a mage rescued him.

[EmperorSahlertz]

If you have ever been in heavy combat, you would know how chaotic actual fighting is. Cullen was fighting something even more chaotic then I can imagine, so I won't say it is illogical for him not to realize everything going on.

Perhaps they did not notice. Perhaps the fighting in the Gallows weren't quite as grandoise as Varic made it out to be. Or perhaps their voices were amongst those bribed by whichever party got you inside. There are numerous different reasons for why they didn't speak up. For all we know, perhaps they even did speak up, but none of them got your name, so it is a moot point for the Templars. It would jsut be one of numerous apostates in Kirkwall, which they wouldn't even have a lead on.

And why would Thrask mention it? I agree a single line of acknowledgement could have been good, but Thrask simply got no reason to really speak about your talents.

The whole IDEA of an Apostate is that no one knows you are a mage... If everyone knew, you wouldn't be an apostate for long. Even then, they hear rumors about Hawke from act 1 and beyond, so they certainly got some clues on Hawke.

And how would Keran know Hawke were a mage? He was incapacitated during the fighting, and it wasn't Hawke who did any potential "test" on him, and if a mage did do a test on him, he got reasons to stay silent about it.

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

If you have ever been in heavy combat, you would know how chaotic actual fighting is. Cullen was fighting something even more chaotic then I can imagine, so I won't say it is illogical for him not to realize everything going on.

If Cullen realizes that Hawke is aiding him against the abomination templar and the demons, then he's clearly aware that he was aided by Hawke and his companions.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Perhaps they did not notice. Perhaps the fighting in the Gallows weren't quite as grandoise as Varic made it out to be. Or perhaps their voices were amongst those bribed by whichever party got you inside. There are numerous different reasons for why they didn't speak up. For all we know, perhaps they even did speak up, but none of them got your name, so it is a moot point for the Templars. It would jsut be one of numerous apostates in Kirkwall, which they wouldn't even have a lead on.

These issues could have been avoided by not having Hawke using his magical abilities in situations that suspend disbelief and the lore of the Dragon Age universe. Having Hawke using magic at the very center of Meredith's fortress is ridiculous.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

And why would Thrask mention it? I agree a single line of acknowledgement could have been good, but Thrask simply got no reason to really speak about your talents.

Considering what happened to his daughter, why wouldn't he?

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

And how would Keran know Hawke were a mage? He was incapacitated during the fighting, and it wasn't Hawke who did any potential "test" on him, and if a mage did do a test on him, he got reasons to stay silent about it.

Carver is clearly outing the deceased Bethany and Hawke right in front of Keran. Since it's clear that Keran can clear Hawke sufficiently well, it's another example of a character witnessing an event that should inform him that Hawke is a mage, but he seems incapable of registering that Hawke = illegal mage.

[TEWR]

An apostate point of view could've been done easily. Thrask could've noticed and he could've said he'd keep your status as a mage safe, and you could ask him why.

"I have my own reasons."

Later on you find out why.


We should've been given at least one quest that dealt with Apostate Hawke being plagued by demons.

"Dammit not this dream again.... why can't I have a dream that doesn't involve man-eating pork chops? Alright let's go."


well, maybe not like that. But something in the Fade. Maybe the demon using Hawke's sibling's death as a way to get him to accept the demon.

[RangerSG]

First of all, I never bring Carver on anything mage/templar related, because I know he's a loudmouth and unreliable. So that Keran line never comes up.

But even then, Keran is what? If you save him and he talks, he's right back to being Mr Demon Possessed ex-templar. He NEEDS the position, and the only way to keep it is with the PC vouching for him. So what motivation could he *possibly* have to talk?

And no, the Cullen issue isn't "flimsy." All he knows for sure is he got help. With a half-dozen Fade Creatures around, he has no way of knowing where spells are coming from unless you scream it at him, and why would you do that?

[RangerSG]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

An apostate point of view could've been done easily. Thrask could've noticed and he could've said he'd keep your status as a mage safe, and you could ask him why.

"I have my own reasons."

Later on you find out why.


We should've been given at least one quest that dealt with Apostate Hawke being plagued by demons.

"Dammit not this dream again.... why can't I have a dream that doesn't involve man-eating pork chops? Alright let's go."


well, maybe not like that. But something in the Fade. Maybe the demon using Hawke's sibling's death as a way to get him to accept the demon.

I don't disagree with this. There could've and should've been *someone* who threatens the PC in Act 1 or 2, and you have to bribe/cajole or silence the threat.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The game does not HAVE Hawke cast spells in eyesight of anyone. YOU do. That you can't suspend your own belief due to your own damn mistake is your own damn fault. If you want to roleplay an Apostate, then go ahead and do so, just don't cry about a game having had entertainment as a higher priority.
The game sets the stage perfectly for you to play an apostate, if you know how to. That you are unable to do so, only shows you didn't try hard enough.

[LobselVith8]

RangerSG wrote...

First of all, I never bring Carver on anything mage/templar related, because I know he's a loudmouth and unreliable. So that Keran line never comes up.

But even then, Keran is what? If you save him and he talks, he's right back to being Mr Demon Possessed ex-templar. He NEEDS the position, and the only way to keep it is with the PC vouching for him. So what motivation could he *possibly* have to talk?

And no, the Cullen issue isn't "flimsy." All he knows for sure is he got help. With a half-dozen Fade Creatures around, he has no way of knowing where spells are coming from unless you scream it at him, and why would you do that?

The problem is, Keran never mentions it. No one does. Everyone seems to be blind to the fact that Hawke is an apostate, and that's an issue for people who are deprived of an apostate POV when it should matter in a story that's supposed to explore the dichotomy between mages and templars.

If Cullen is aware enough to not attack Hawke or his companions, and recognize that Hawke aided with the defeat of the templar abomination and the demons who were summoned, there doesn't seem to be any problem with Cullen being aware of Hawke's role in these events. I don't see how Cullen wouldn't have noticed apostates using magic.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The game does not HAVE Hawke cast spells in eyesight of anyone. YOU do. That you can't suspend your own belief due to your own damn mistake is your own damn fault. If you want to roleplay an Apostate, then go ahead and do so, just don't cry about a game having had entertainment as a higher priority.
The game sets the stage perfectly for you to play an apostate, if you know how to. That you are unable to do so, only shows you didn't try hard enough.

The game ignores that Hawke is an apostate. Why should the fans should be blamed? You seem to be arguing that fans should be fan fic'ing reasons for these flaws, rather than addressing the problems with the storyline that ignores that Hawke is an apostate.

[Fidget6]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Game logic. Sometimes things just don't make any damned sense.

How come none of the characters age or change their clothes over the course of nearly ten years? Where DO they store all their looted items? How can everone last so long without going to the bathroom? Why do they walk so weird? The world may never know.....

Modifié par Fidget6, 22 juin 2011 - 11:22 .

[fn_outlaw]

I can offer something to this arguement.

Since no one else has said it...why does Ser Wesley know an apostate when he sees one, yet the Templars in Kirkwall seem to lack the same skill? I've always found it odd that Wesley points it out when you first meet him, but all of the templars in Kirkwal fail to notice same.

Ser Wesley > All the Templars of Kirkwall

[RangerSG]

fn_outlaw wrote...

I can offer something to this arguement.

Since no one else has said it...why does Ser Wesley know an apostate when he sees one, yet the Templars in Kirkwall seem to lack the same skill? I've always found it odd that Wesley points it out when you first meet him, but all of the templars in Kirkwal fail to notice same.

Ser Wesley > All the Templars of Kirkwall

Wesley is injured and inactive for much of the fight. So he reasonably COULD see Bethany & Hawke casting spells, especially since there weren't any Emissaries in that fight, so there was no one else TO cast spells. He doesn't recognize them from "the staff" (which is a common peasant weapon).

Cullen is surrounded by Fade creatures, any of which can and do use magic. And until Thrask, who has every reason to keep silent, there's no instance of casting "in front of" a Templar.

So this is false logic.

[IanPolaris]

Fenris notices your character is an apostate almost immediately and he is in the thick of combat as well. Fenris is the "super-templar"? By Kirkwall standards I guess so....

-Polaris

[RangerSG]

IanPolaris wrote...

Fenris notices your character is an apostate almost immediately and he is in the thick of combat as well. Fenris is the "super-templar"? By Kirkwall standards I guess so....
-Polaris

Fenris has several more chances to see it than one fight. And he's there 'before' the fight as well. So he can gage the party before and after. But even HE says he didn't see it right away.

[IanPolaris]

RangerSG wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Fenris notices your character is an apostate almost immediately and he is in the thick of combat as well. Fenris is the "super-templar"? By Kirkwall standards I guess so....
-Polaris

Fenris has several more chances to see it than one fight. And he's there 'before' the fight as well. So he can gage the party before and after. But even HE says he didn't see it right away.

Fenris sees it after fighting alongside Hawke and company for the first time.  He didn't see it in the Alienage because he was busy slaughtering Tevinter Slavers on his own that were lying in ambush. 

The POINT is that the game flouts willing suspension of disbelief.  Tossing Fireballs and Tempest spells around is pretty damned obvious as is petrify and a whole number of other spells.  Most people that fight along an apostate Hawke (and Co) see the magic almost immediately EXCEPT the Templars.

It's bad writing and there is no excuse for it.

-Polaris

[Sajuro]

I stand by my previous statement, when you are not murdering templars you are saving their armored butts. When you are murdering them, as they say: dead men tell no tales. When you are saving them, I'm sure they have enough honor to give the apostate that just saved them from abominations or criminals a chance by not reporting them. Varric could be bribing the other templars to stay away from Hawke, just like he pays off thugs so Merril can walk through dark alleys at night.
I think it is silly how people are demanding to have their hand held through letting people know that the templars acknowledge an apostate, when if they used some creative thinking they could come up with the logical explanations.
Moreover, I think the templars not hounding a Mage Hawke after Hawke saves their lives or the lives of their comrades goes to the greater theme I felt that Dragon Age 2 had: Even if both of the top people are crazy, the rank and file Templars and Mages are not evil people inherently and not all templars are 'pure templar' who attack all mages on sight just like not all Mages practice blood magic.

[IanPolaris]

Sajuro wrote...

I stand by my previous statement, when you are not murdering templars you are saving their armored butts. When you are murdering them, as they say: dead men tell no tales. When you are saving them, I'm sure they have enough honor to give the apostate that just saved them from abominations or criminals a chance by not reporting them. Varric could be bribing the other templars to stay away from Hawke, just like he pays off thugs so Merril can walk through dark alleys at night.
I think it is silly how people are demanding to have their hand held through letting people know that the templars acknowledge an apostate, when if they used some creative thinking they could come up with the logical explanations.
Moreover, I think the templars not hounding a Mage Hawke after Hawke saves their lives or the lives of their comrades goes to the greater theme I felt that Dragon Age 2 had: Even if both of the top people are crazy, the rank and file Templars and Mages are not evil people inherently and not all templars are 'pure templar' who attack all mages on sight just like not all Mages practice blood magic.

That's not consistant with the Templar Order I am familiar with.  OK, there may be a few templars that would be willing to look the other way if you saved their life (Emric comes to mind), but honestly I see most Templars to be like Wesley (who was far from evil).  I should think the typical Templar attitude, is "Thank you, but I have to turn you in now.  Because you saved my life, I will speak on your behalf before the knight commander and assume you aren't a Maleficar."

-Polaris

[Sajuro]

IanPolaris wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

I stand by my previous statement, when you are not murdering templars you are saving their armored butts. When you are murdering them, as they say: dead men tell no tales. When you are saving them, I'm sure they have enough honor to give the apostate that just saved them from abominations or criminals a chance by not reporting them. Varric could be bribing the other templars to stay away from Hawke, just like he pays off thugs so Merril can walk through dark alleys at night.
I think it is silly how people are demanding to have their hand held through letting people know that the templars acknowledge an apostate, when if they used some creative thinking they could come up with the logical explanations.
Moreover, I think the templars not hounding a Mage Hawke after Hawke saves their lives or the lives of their comrades goes to the greater theme I felt that Dragon Age 2 had: Even if both of the top people are crazy, the rank and file Templars and Mages are not evil people inherently and not all templars are 'pure templar' who attack all mages on sight just like not all Mages practice blood magic.

That's not consistant with the Templar Order I am familiar with.  OK, there may be a few templars that would be willing to look the other way if you saved their life (Emric comes to mind), but honestly I see most Templars to be like Wesley (who was far from evil).  I should think the typical Templar attitude, is "Thank you, but I have to turn you in now.  Because you saved my life, I will speak on your behalf before the knight commander and assume you aren't a Maleficar."

-Polaris

Really? I do not see any of that in Dragon Age 2 and that is what leads me to believe that the Templars (at least in Act 1) let Hawke slid by because they just got their lives saved. And bear in mind we see very few of the kirkwall templars given the armies they bring up in the final quest. They may not say "Welp, you saved my life so go ahead and play your apostate games" but that doesn't mean they don't notice Hawke is wearing furry shoulders, which seems to be exclusive to Mages for some reason, or is shooting fireballs. I understand where you are coming from, that it would be nice for cullen to say "Holy ****, you just shot fireballs, but you saved me so I will look at that pretty flower for a few minutes" or something to that effect. But I do not think it is needed to show an impact of being an apostate in Kirkwall and if you are in character, thinking about how your Hawke reacts to the acts of forcing tranquility on Harrowed mages.