301 réponses à ce sujet

[mopotter]

Fan service, probably since you can romance her no matter how you treated her in ME1.

But I remember on Illium you can overhear a Quarian and Turian talking about her dating life so they do date other races and it's not a stretch to see them dating a human. I just wish there had been a way to have the romance dependent on how you treated her in ME1, but it's not.

[Alienmorph]

makalathbonagin wrote...

there is a lot of butthurt arrogant talimancers in these threads. What's going on xDD

If you say so 

mopotter wrote...

I just wish there had been a way to have
the romance dependent on how you treated her in ME1, but it's not.

That would have been a nice touch, like happens with
Garrus, who can't be romanced if he wasn't recruited in ME1. For Tali
the trigger may have been the geth datas. It's a quite hidden quest, so I
understand why it wasn't made as trigger, but at least if Shepard
explicitally refused to help her with the pilgrimage, considered that
she refuses to talk with you anymore after that, should have blocker the
chance of 'mance her in ME2..

[CroGamer002]

^Actually that quest can be triggered without talking to Tali.

Admiral Hackett will tell you about Geth forces when you go to that system.

[Alienmorph]

Mesina2 wrote...

^Actually that quest can be triggered without talking to Tali.

Admiral Hackett will tell you about Geth forces when you go to that system.

I know. The idea was that in case Shepard refused to gave her the data she won't consider him any thing more than a good Commander. After all, if you accepted to give her the datas there's the extra dialogues on Freedom's Progress that makes her immediately more friendly. Why it could'nt have worked in the opposite way too?

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

ShadowLordXXX wrote...

Er if that's how you want to play it, then you CAN play it like that. Whereas if someone does not want to play as 100% military professional they can. Hell there are a lot of opportunities to either play as a very strict military Shepard or as one who's well not so military.

In ME2 especially, regardless of the reasons why fraternization is discouraged in the military, Shepard is NOT military at this point and as such is not bound by military rules, whether or not he continues to abide by them well, that's his decision.

It's less being bound by military rules and more being bound by ethics and common sense, IMO 

I can't imagine ParaShep doing something that unethical, and even ReneShep isn't one to potentially compromise the mission just to get his rocks off. Shepard's a bit of an established character even given the multiple choice aspect, and this sort of behavior really isn't consistent with that character.

[jshadow]

Seriously OP, you're making it sound as if people fall in love just because they want babies. =P

[KainrycKarr]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

ShadowLordXXX wrote...

Er if that's how you want to play it, then you CAN play it like that. Whereas if someone does not want to play as 100% military professional they can. Hell there are a lot of opportunities to either play as a very strict military Shepard or as one who's well not so military.

In ME2 especially, regardless of the reasons why fraternization is discouraged in the military, Shepard is NOT military at this point and as such is not bound by military rules, whether or not he continues to abide by them well, that's his decision.

It's less being bound by military rules and more being bound by ethics and common sense, IMO 

I can't imagine ParaShep doing something that unethical, and even ReneShep isn't one to potentially compromise the mission just to get his rocks off. Shepard's a bit of an established character even given the multiple choice aspect, and this sort of behavior really isn't consistent with that character.

Bull.

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

KainrycKarr wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

ShadowLordXXX wrote...

Er if that's how you want to play it, then you CAN play it like that. Whereas if someone does not want to play as 100% military professional they can. Hell there are a lot of opportunities to either play as a very strict military Shepard or as one who's well not so military.

In ME2 especially, regardless of the reasons why fraternization is discouraged in the military, Shepard is NOT military at this point and as such is not bound by military rules, whether or not he continues to abide by them well, that's his decision.

It's less being bound by military rules and more being bound by ethics and common sense, IMO 

I can't imagine ParaShep doing something that unethical, and even ReneShep isn't one to potentially compromise the mission just to get his rocks off. Shepard's a bit of an established character even given the multiple choice aspect, and this sort of behavior really isn't consistent with that character.

Bull.

This is hardly Morrowind or Dragon Age: Origins. The writers wrote Shepard as flexible, but not flexible enough to have an incompetent or corrupt Shep. It's not good and evil, it's Picard and Jack Bauer.

[KainrycKarr]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

ShadowLordXXX wrote...

Er if that's how you want to play it, then you CAN play it like that. Whereas if someone does not want to play as 100% military professional they can. Hell there are a lot of opportunities to either play as a very strict military Shepard or as one who's well not so military.

In ME2 especially, regardless of the reasons why fraternization is discouraged in the military, Shepard is NOT military at this point and as such is not bound by military rules, whether or not he continues to abide by them well, that's his decision.

It's less being bound by military rules and more being bound by ethics and common sense, IMO 

I can't imagine ParaShep doing something that unethical, and even ReneShep isn't one to potentially compromise the mission just to get his rocks off. Shepard's a bit of an established character even given the multiple choice aspect, and this sort of behavior really isn't consistent with that character.

Bull.

This is hardly Morrowind or Dragon Age: Origins. The writers wrote Shepard as flexible, but not flexible enough to have an incompetent or corrupt Shep. It's not good and evil, it's Picard and Jack Bauer.

So Shepard taking an interest and following it up with a crewmate of a non-military vessel is corrupt?

In the renegade romance with Jack, I'd say that's true. Shep's just getting his rocks off.

The main romances...no. That's not corrupt. People do that all the time, and it's pretty normal.

Modifié par KainrycKarr, 21 juin 2011 - 06:14 .

[ShadowLordXXX]

KainrycKarr wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

ShadowLordXXX wrote...

Er if that's how you want to play it, then you CAN play it like that. Whereas if someone does not want to play as 100% military professional they can. Hell there are a lot of opportunities to either play as a very strict military Shepard or as one who's well not so military.

In ME2 especially, regardless of the reasons why fraternization is discouraged in the military, Shepard is NOT military at this point and as such is not bound by military rules, whether or not he continues to abide by them well, that's his decision.

It's less being bound by military rules and more being bound by ethics and common sense, IMO 

I can't imagine ParaShep doing something that unethical, and even ReneShep isn't one to potentially compromise the mission just to get his rocks off. Shepard's a bit of an established character even given the multiple choice aspect, and this sort of behavior really isn't consistent with that character.

Bull.

This^

Shepard is NOT an established charactrer, no matter HOW you play him. A renegade doesnt always have to make renegade decisions, a paragon doesn't always have to make "paragon" decisions.

Hell you're assuming even that Shepard has the same thought process about fraternization as you do. Why couldn't Shepard consider it the same way Turians do? Turians, arguably the most militant and disciplined force in the game, don't have rules against fraternization(iirc from what Garrus says, not certain if that applied to officers though), so why is it hard to imagine that someone could play as a Shepard who sees nothing wrong with it?

Oh and furthermore, technically ANY emotional connection at ALL could cause Shepard to make a mistake in order to protect someone(for example even without romancing Tali Shepard may care more for her, do to her being part of his original team, than, say, Jacob, and could decide not to send her to do a task she's arguably better suited for in order to protect her[the vents anyone?])

Now I'm not going to say fraternization is necessarily never a bad thing or anything but you seem to put a little bit too much weight on it and also assume Shepard is some kind fo super human who would never even think of doing something that may/may not be immoral.

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

KainrycKarr wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

ShadowLordXXX wrote...

Er if that's how you want to play it, then you CAN play it like that. Whereas if someone does not want to play as 100% military professional they can. Hell there are a lot of opportunities to either play as a very strict military Shepard or as one who's well not so military.

In ME2 especially, regardless of the reasons why fraternization is discouraged in the military, Shepard is NOT military at this point and as such is not bound by military rules, whether or not he continues to abide by them well, that's his decision.

It's less being bound by military rules and more being bound by ethics and common sense, IMO 

I can't imagine ParaShep doing something that unethical, and even ReneShep isn't one to potentially compromise the mission just to get his rocks off. Shepard's a bit of an established character even given the multiple choice aspect, and this sort of behavior really isn't consistent with that character.

Bull.

This is hardly Morrowind or Dragon Age: Origins. The writers wrote Shepard as flexible, but not flexible enough to have an incompetent or corrupt Shep. It's not good and evil, it's Picard and Jack Bauer.

So Shepard taking an interest and following it up with a crewmate of a non-military vessel is corrupt?

In the renegade romance with Jack, I'd say that's true. Shep's just getting his rocks off.

The main romances...no. That's not corrupt. People do that all the time, and it's pretty normal.

Of course it's corrupt to jeapordize the mission for personal reasons, and it's inconsistent with the way they wrote both Paragon and Renegade versions of Shepard. (Of course, Renegade Shepard isn't exactly well-written to begin with, but that's a topic for a different day.)

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

ShadowLordXXX wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

ShadowLordXXX wrote...

Er if that's how you want to play it, then you CAN play it like that. Whereas if someone does not want to play as 100% military professional they can. Hell there are a lot of opportunities to either play as a very strict military Shepard or as one who's well not so military.

In ME2 especially, regardless of the reasons why fraternization is discouraged in the military, Shepard is NOT military at this point and as such is not bound by military rules, whether or not he continues to abide by them well, that's his decision.

It's less being bound by military rules and more being bound by ethics and common sense, IMO 

I can't imagine ParaShep doing something that unethical, and even ReneShep isn't one to potentially compromise the mission just to get his rocks off. Shepard's a bit of an established character even given the multiple choice aspect, and this sort of behavior really isn't consistent with that character.

Bull.

This^

Shepard is NOT an established charactrer, no matter HOW you play him. A renegade doesnt always have to make renegade decisions, a paragon doesn't always have to make "paragon" decisions.

Hell you're assuming even that Shepard has the same thought process about fraternization as you do. Why couldn't Shepard consider it the same way Turians do? Turians, arguably the most militant and disciplined force in the game, don't have rules against fraternization(iirc from what Garrus says, not certain if that applied to officers though), so why is it hard to imagine that someone could play as a Shepard who sees nothing wrong with it?

Oh and furthermore, technically ANY emotional connection at ALL could cause Shepard to make a mistake in order to protect someone(for example even without romancing Tali Shepard may care more for her, do to her being part of his original team, than, say, Jacob, and could decide not to send her to do a task she's arguably better suited for in order to protect her[the vents anyone?])

Now I'm not going to say fraternization is necessarily never a bad thing or anything but you seem to put a little bit too much weight on it and also assume Shepard is some kind fo super human who would never even think of doing something that may/may not be immoral.

Not at all - Shepard (at least Renegade, and occasionally Paragon) does immoral stuff all the time - in service of the mission. Given the way they wrote both versions of Shepard, it does not make sense to have her/him jeapordize the mission for personal gain. That's what makes the romances fall flat in Mass Effect 2 - they're inconsistent with the different character pathways Bioware has written.

[The Baconer]

Not any more or less believable than the others.

[ShadowLordXXX]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

ShadowLordXXX wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

ShadowLordXXX wrote...

Er if that's how you want to play it, then you CAN play it like that. Whereas if someone does not want to play as 100% military professional they can. Hell there are a lot of opportunities to either play as a very strict military Shepard or as one who's well not so military.

In ME2 especially, regardless of the reasons why fraternization is discouraged in the military, Shepard is NOT military at this point and as such is not bound by military rules, whether or not he continues to abide by them well, that's his decision.

It's less being bound by military rules and more being bound by ethics and common sense, IMO 

I can't imagine ParaShep doing something that unethical, and even ReneShep isn't one to potentially compromise the mission just to get his rocks off. Shepard's a bit of an established character even given the multiple choice aspect, and this sort of behavior really isn't consistent with that character.

Bull.

This^

Shepard is NOT an established charactrer, no matter HOW you play him. A renegade doesnt always have to make renegade decisions, a paragon doesn't always have to make "paragon" decisions.

Hell you're assuming even that Shepard has the same thought process about fraternization as you do. Why couldn't Shepard consider it the same way Turians do? Turians, arguably the most militant and disciplined force in the game, don't have rules against fraternization(iirc from what Garrus says, not certain if that applied to officers though), so why is it hard to imagine that someone could play as a Shepard who sees nothing wrong with it?

Oh and furthermore, technically ANY emotional connection at ALL could cause Shepard to make a mistake in order to protect someone(for example even without romancing Tali Shepard may care more for her, do to her being part of his original team, than, say, Jacob, and could decide not to send her to do a task she's arguably better suited for in order to protect her[the vents anyone?])

Now I'm not going to say fraternization is necessarily never a bad thing or anything but you seem to put a little bit too much weight on it and also assume Shepard is some kind fo super human who would never even think of doing something that may/may not be immoral.

Not at all - Shepard (at least Renegade, and occasionally Paragon) does immoral stuff all the time - in service of the mission. Given the way they wrote both versions of Shepard, it does not make sense to have her/him jeapordize the mission for personal gain. That's what makes the romances fall flat in Mass Effect 2 - they're inconsistent with the different character pathways Bioware has written.

Sigh...

You keep saying they "jeopardize" the mission, as if that's the only consideration Shepard could possibly have, and he must be some kind of automaton who would never ever do ANYTHING which MIGHT have a negative effect on the mission. And MIGHT is a big point here. The only way for fraternization to actually effect the mission is if Shepard lets it. It does not directly affect the mission, it may indirectly if Shepard allows it to.

Hell Shepard can do plenty of things which can actually jeopardize the mission, Paragon Shepard  for example could be considered to be jeopardizing the mission if he tries to save the factory workers in Zaeed's loyalty mission as having a squadmate who doesn't trust you could easily cause problems with the mission. Renegade Shep betraying Samara for Morinth also could endanger the mission(and his own life!) since he really doesn't know whether or not Morinth won't simply attack him after he takes out Samara. Hell even releasing Grunt or waking up Legion has the potential to negatively impact the mission, both Legion and Grunt are of unknown loyalties and from a perspective of something that might compromise the mission, waking up a Krogan in the cargo hold without backup seems pretty high up there.

Anyways your assumption again is that Shepard has to follow a "path" and that Renegade Shep and Paragon Shep are the only ones that exist and that the player does not get to determine Shepard's thought process, which I don't think there is ANY evidence of that being the case.

Modifié par ShadowLordXXX, 21 juin 2011 - 06:42 .

[78stonewobble]

Well the lack of detail in the romance minigame doesn't necessarily have anything to do with whether aliens plus humans are good/bad.

It's decisions with limits ... otherwise I'd have made myself dictator of the galaxy instead of choosing an ambassador.

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

ShadowLordXXX wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

ShadowLordXXX wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

ShadowLordXXX wrote...

Er if that's how you want to play it, then you CAN play it like that. Whereas if someone does not want to play as 100% military professional they can. Hell there are a lot of opportunities to either play as a very strict military Shepard or as one who's well not so military.

In ME2 especially, regardless of the reasons why fraternization is discouraged in the military, Shepard is NOT military at this point and as such is not bound by military rules, whether or not he continues to abide by them well, that's his decision.

It's less being bound by military rules and more being bound by ethics and common sense, IMO 

I can't imagine ParaShep doing something that unethical, and even ReneShep isn't one to potentially compromise the mission just to get his rocks off. Shepard's a bit of an established character even given the multiple choice aspect, and this sort of behavior really isn't consistent with that character.

Bull.

This^

Shepard is NOT an established charactrer, no matter HOW you play him. A renegade doesnt always have to make renegade decisions, a paragon doesn't always have to make "paragon" decisions.

Hell you're assuming even that Shepard has the same thought process about fraternization as you do. Why couldn't Shepard consider it the same way Turians do? Turians, arguably the most militant and disciplined force in the game, don't have rules against fraternization(iirc from what Garrus says, not certain if that applied to officers though), so why is it hard to imagine that someone could play as a Shepard who sees nothing wrong with it?

Oh and furthermore, technically ANY emotional connection at ALL could cause Shepard to make a mistake in order to protect someone(for example even without romancing Tali Shepard may care more for her, do to her being part of his original team, than, say, Jacob, and could decide not to send her to do a task she's arguably better suited for in order to protect her[the vents anyone?])

Now I'm not going to say fraternization is necessarily never a bad thing or anything but you seem to put a little bit too much weight on it and also assume Shepard is some kind fo super human who would never even think of doing something that may/may not be immoral.

Not at all - Shepard (at least Renegade, and occasionally Paragon) does immoral stuff all the time - in service of the mission. Given the way they wrote both versions of Shepard, it does not make sense to have her/him jeapordize the mission for personal gain. That's what makes the romances fall flat in Mass Effect 2 - they're inconsistent with the different character pathways Bioware has written.

Sigh...

You keep saying they "jeopardize" the mission, as if that's the only consideration Shepard could possibly have, and he must be some kind of automaton who would never ever do ANYTHING which MIGHT have a negative effect on the mission. And MIGHT is a big point here. The only way for fraternization to actually effect the mission is if Shepard lets it. It does not directly affect the mission, it may indirectly if Shepard allows it to.

Hell Shepard can do plenty of things which can actually jeopardize the mission, Paragon Shepard  for example could be considered to be jeopardizing the mission if he tries to save the factory workers in Zaeed's loyalty mission as having a squadmate who doesn't trust you could easily cause problems with the mission. Renegade Shep betraying Samara for Morinth also could endanger the mission(and his own life!) since he really doesn't know whether or not Morinth won't simply attack him after he takes out Samara. Hell even releasing Grunt or waking up Legion has the potential to negatively impact the mission, both Legion and Grunt are of unknown loyalties and from a perspective of something that might compromise the mission, waking up a Krogan in the cargo hold without backup seems pretty high up there.

Anyways your assumption again is that Shepard has to follow a "path" and that Renegade Shep and Paragon Shep are the only ones that exist and that the player does not get to determine Shepard's thought process, which I don't think there is ANY evidence of that being the case.

If Bioware intended to make Shepard a blank slate, they would have made Shepard a blank slate. None of those examples you mentioned work, because in each example, Bioware wrote Shepard as taking calculated risks that improve her/his ability to save the galaxy in the long run or acting on an ethical code. How do we know this? Because Shepard often explicitly says so. In Mass Effect 2, you can't really find a rationale for the LIs because there isn't one. It's not a particularly well-implemented or well-written part of the game.

[S.A.K]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

ShadowLordXXX wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

ShadowLordXXX wrote...

Er if that's how you want to play it, then you CAN play it like that. Whereas if someone does not want to play as 100% military professional they can. Hell there are a lot of opportunities to either play as a very strict military Shepard or as one who's well not so military.

In ME2 especially, regardless of the reasons why fraternization is discouraged in the military, Shepard is NOT military at this point and as such is not bound by military rules, whether or not he continues to abide by them well, that's his decision.

It's less being bound by military rules and more being bound by ethics and common sense, IMO 

I can't imagine ParaShep doing something that unethical, and even ReneShep isn't one to potentially compromise the mission just to get his rocks off. Shepard's a bit of an established character even given the multiple choice aspect, and this sort of behavior really isn't consistent with that character.

Bull.

This^

Shepard is NOT an established charactrer, no matter HOW you play him. A renegade doesnt always have to make renegade decisions, a paragon doesn't always have to make "paragon" decisions.

Hell you're assuming even that Shepard has the same thought process about fraternization as you do. Why couldn't Shepard consider it the same way Turians do? Turians, arguably the most militant and disciplined force in the game, don't have rules against fraternization(iirc from what Garrus says, not certain if that applied to officers though), so why is it hard to imagine that someone could play as a Shepard who sees nothing wrong with it?

Oh and furthermore, technically ANY emotional connection at ALL could cause Shepard to make a mistake in order to protect someone(for example even without romancing Tali Shepard may care more for her, do to her being part of his original team, than, say, Jacob, and could decide not to send her to do a task she's arguably better suited for in order to protect her[the vents anyone?])

Now I'm not going to say fraternization is necessarily never a bad thing or anything but you seem to put a little bit too much weight on it and also assume Shepard is some kind fo super human who would never even think of doing something that may/may not be immoral.

Not at all - Shepard (at least Renegade, and occasionally Paragon) does immoral stuff all the time - in service of the mission. Given the way they wrote both versions of Shepard, it does not make sense to have her/him jeapordize the mission for personal gain. That's what makes the romances fall flat in Mass Effect 2 - they're inconsistent with the different character pathways Bioware has written.

Jeapordize you say? I don't know about you but my whole team survived. Anyway if you don't like romance don't do it, simple as that. But everyone don't have to play like you because its their choice and what every you say those choices are in ME2 and they will be in ME3 and there is nothing you can do about it!

Modifié par S.A.K, 21 juin 2011 - 06:58 .

[Dean_the_Young]

I find the Tali fatuation entire believable, if not exceptionally admirable by either party.

[mopotter]

Alienmorph wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

^Actually that quest can be triggered without talking to Tali.

Admiral Hackett will tell you about Geth forces when you go to that system.

I know. The idea was that in case Shepard refused to gave her the data she won't consider him any thing more than a good Commander. After all, if you accepted to give her the datas there's the extra dialogues on Freedom's Progress that makes her immediately more friendly. Why it could'nt have worked in the opposite way too?

Yep.  Tali doesn't talk to you about it, other than just what it is, until after you wipe the geth out and then when you talk to her she mentions it would be a nice thing to take back for her pilgrimage and you can decide whether or not to give it to her.   It would have made more sense to use something like this to trigger the romance option, totally agree Alienmorph.  

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

S.A.K wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

ShadowLordXXX wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

ShadowLordXXX wrote...

Er if that's how you want to play it, then you CAN play it like that. Whereas if someone does not want to play as 100% military professional they can. Hell there are a lot of opportunities to either play as a very strict military Shepard or as one who's well not so military.

In ME2 especially, regardless of the reasons why fraternization is discouraged in the military, Shepard is NOT military at this point and as such is not bound by military rules, whether or not he continues to abide by them well, that's his decision.

It's less being bound by military rules and more being bound by ethics and common sense, IMO 

I can't imagine ParaShep doing something that unethical, and even ReneShep isn't one to potentially compromise the mission just to get his rocks off. Shepard's a bit of an established character even given the multiple choice aspect, and this sort of behavior really isn't consistent with that character.

Bull.

This^

Shepard is NOT an established charactrer, no matter HOW you play him. A renegade doesnt always have to make renegade decisions, a paragon doesn't always have to make "paragon" decisions.

Hell you're assuming even that Shepard has the same thought process about fraternization as you do. Why couldn't Shepard consider it the same way Turians do? Turians, arguably the most militant and disciplined force in the game, don't have rules against fraternization(iirc from what Garrus says, not certain if that applied to officers though), so why is it hard to imagine that someone could play as a Shepard who sees nothing wrong with it?

Oh and furthermore, technically ANY emotional connection at ALL could cause Shepard to make a mistake in order to protect someone(for example even without romancing Tali Shepard may care more for her, do to her being part of his original team, than, say, Jacob, and could decide not to send her to do a task she's arguably better suited for in order to protect her[the vents anyone?])

Now I'm not going to say fraternization is necessarily never a bad thing or anything but you seem to put a little bit too much weight on it and also assume Shepard is some kind fo super human who would never even think of doing something that may/may not be immoral.

Not at all - Shepard (at least Renegade, and occasionally Paragon) does immoral stuff all the time - in service of the mission. Given the way they wrote both versions of Shepard, it does not make sense to have her/him jeapordize the mission for personal gain. That's what makes the romances fall flat in Mass Effect 2 - they're inconsistent with the different character pathways Bioware has written.

Jeapordize you say? I don't know about you but my whole team survived. Anyway if you don't like romance don't do it, simple as that. But everyone don't have to play like you because its their choice and what every you say those choices are in ME2 and they will be in ME3 and there is nothing you can do about it!

Yeah, they can write what they want to. I personally prefer good writing to bad writing, though.

[KainrycKarr]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

ShadowLordXXX wrote...

Er if that's how you want to play it, then you CAN play it like that. Whereas if someone does not want to play as 100% military professional they can. Hell there are a lot of opportunities to either play as a very strict military Shepard or as one who's well not so military.

In ME2 especially, regardless of the reasons why fraternization is discouraged in the military, Shepard is NOT military at this point and as such is not bound by military rules, whether or not he continues to abide by them well, that's his decision.

It's less being bound by military rules and more being bound by ethics and common sense, IMO 

I can't imagine ParaShep doing something that unethical, and even ReneShep isn't one to potentially compromise the mission just to get his rocks off. Shepard's a bit of an established character even given the multiple choice aspect, and this sort of behavior really isn't consistent with that character.

Bull.

This is hardly Morrowind or Dragon Age: Origins. The writers wrote Shepard as flexible, but not flexible enough to have an incompetent or corrupt Shep. It's not good and evil, it's Picard and Jack Bauer.

So Shepard taking an interest and following it up with a crewmate of a non-military vessel is corrupt?

In the renegade romance with Jack, I'd say that's true. Shep's just getting his rocks off.

The main romances...no. That's not corrupt. People do that all the time, and it's pretty normal.

Of course it's corrupt to jeapordize the mission for personal reasons, and it's inconsistent with the way they wrote both Paragon and Renegade versions of Shepard. (Of course, Renegade Shepard isn't exactly well-written to begin with, but that's a topic for a different day.)

It doesn't jeopardize the mission. It gives personal reasons to ensure the mission succeeds.

[KainrycKarr]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

ShadowLordXXX wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

ShadowLordXXX wrote...

Er if that's how you want to play it, then you CAN play it like that. Whereas if someone does not want to play as 100% military professional they can. Hell there are a lot of opportunities to either play as a very strict military Shepard or as one who's well not so military.

In ME2 especially, regardless of the reasons why fraternization is discouraged in the military, Shepard is NOT military at this point and as such is not bound by military rules, whether or not he continues to abide by them well, that's his decision.

It's less being bound by military rules and more being bound by ethics and common sense, IMO 

I can't imagine ParaShep doing something that unethical, and even ReneShep isn't one to potentially compromise the mission just to get his rocks off. Shepard's a bit of an established character even given the multiple choice aspect, and this sort of behavior really isn't consistent with that character.

Bull.

This^

Shepard is NOT an established charactrer, no matter HOW you play him. A renegade doesnt always have to make renegade decisions, a paragon doesn't always have to make "paragon" decisions.

Hell you're assuming even that Shepard has the same thought process about fraternization as you do. Why couldn't Shepard consider it the same way Turians do? Turians, arguably the most militant and disciplined force in the game, don't have rules against fraternization(iirc from what Garrus says, not certain if that applied to officers though), so why is it hard to imagine that someone could play as a Shepard who sees nothing wrong with it?

Oh and furthermore, technically ANY emotional connection at ALL could cause Shepard to make a mistake in order to protect someone(for example even without romancing Tali Shepard may care more for her, do to her being part of his original team, than, say, Jacob, and could decide not to send her to do a task she's arguably better suited for in order to protect her[the vents anyone?])

Now I'm not going to say fraternization is necessarily never a bad thing or anything but you seem to put a little bit too much weight on it and also assume Shepard is some kind fo super human who would never even think of doing something that may/may not be immoral.

Not at all - Shepard (at least Renegade, and occasionally Paragon) does immoral stuff all the time - in service of the mission. Given the way they wrote both versions of Shepard, it does not make sense to have her/him jeapordize the mission for personal gain. That's what makes the romances fall flat in Mass Effect 2 - they're inconsistent with the different character pathways Bioware has written.

Jeapordize you say? I don't know about you but my whole team survived. Anyway if you don't like romance don't do it, simple as that. But everyone don't have to play like you because its their choice and what every you say those choices are in ME2 and they will be in ME3 and there is nothing you can do about it!

Yeah, they can write what they want to. I personally prefer good writing to bad writing, though.

so, romance in a war story is bad writing, huh? lol.

[S.A.K]

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...
Yeah, they can write what they want to. I personally prefer good writing to bad writing, though.

You and me both, but they haven't done anything bad in my view.