301 réponses à ce sujet

[S.A.K]

Arcian wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

Arcian's just pulling stuff out of his rear, there are legitimate concerns that I can understand somebody having with Tali's character but I think a lot of that comes down to taste and perception, he doesn't have anything but broad generalizations.

"Look! That guy has opinions we don't like! Fetch the pitchforks!"

I remember you from Tali thread. Someone said you are not a troll. But now I really think he was mistaken. If you are not a troll you sure try hard to become one:(

[GodWood]

That's not trolling

[S.A.K]

Arcian wrote...

All romances are fanservice, but in Tali's case it wasn't implemented believably anywhere. Her diehard fans gave her a pass since they've been clamoring the fact that she wasn't an LI in ME1. I personally thought that BioWare tried way too hard to shove her allegedly "secret feelings" down our throat, much unlike Garrus who hadn't even considered FemShep as partner material before she actually suggested it.

The whole "I've been in love with you since the first time I saw you" came off as horribly, HORRIBLY cheesy and contrived. Justified as it is blatant fanservice, of course, but still incredibly bad writing. It would have been much easier to swallow if she had been more like Garrus and said, "Wait? You like me? Oh, I've never thought about it like that. I don't know... I mean, I respect you, but this would be dangerous for me because of my immune-system," and so forth, instead of the heavy-handed message that we got delivered to our faces with the subtlety of a sledgehammer.

Plus, her entire storyline, from start to finish, just screams "I was rewritten from a perky wrench wench to a belligerent, snappy, arrogant and overtly emotional moe to evoke sympathy because my life is terrible and only bad things happen to me and because I need love badly, *tears of anguish and loneliness*", while in ME1 she was this fun, perky and idealistic young pilgrim on her merry way to learn about the galaxy without a SINGLE SIGN she had any feelings for Shepard. The fact that Liara shoves this fanservice-laden statement down our throat in LotSB just makes it so much worse, as if the writers can't get enough of repeatedly taking a hatchet to her ME1 persona.

Do I have anything against Tali or the fact that she is romanceable? No. Do I have anything against her character and romance in ME2 were written preposterously bad and cringe-worthy? Yes. Is this my personal opinion, and one I reserve the full right to possess and express on a public forum despite the inevitable and vocal outcry of a minority of fans zealously disagreeing with me, without the risk of suffering personal harm or punishment inflicted upon my forum account? Yes. Will you have to deal with it? Take a guess.

What about this? I didn't quote that first because its too long.

[InvaderErl]

I don't know if that's trollish as is, I will say that its more vitriolic than necessary and that last paragraph portrays somebody with an inflated sense of their own importance but I wouldn't necessarily report that for being a troll post.

Obnoxious, sure.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 22 juin 2011 - 04:14 .

[GodWood]

No.
That's just her explaining why she doesn't like how Tali (and her romance) was handled in ME2.

[MsSihaKatieKrios]

Tali's romance was pure fanservice.
I mean, it was typical fairytale 'OMG I lurved joo from the start Sheppy! Let's have smoochy smoochy timez nao!' How is that even believable? At least in the other romances, you actually had to work for it. The thrill is in the chase...and there wasn't any for Tali. It was just idol worshipping and idol shagging at its finest. I mean, even Garrus didn't try to jump into your pants the minute he got aboard the Normandy. Tali did.

For me, the romance just felt...wrong. My little sister(Tali) was actually hitting on me SHAMELESSLY. How would you guys feel if your IRL little sister decided to start idol worshipping you and jump into your lap?

That's how I feel.

[S.A.K]

Well ok, its not trolling and I didn't report him or anything. But I don't see why tali romance was so bad. I found it quite belivalbe because it took 2 games for it to get there and I don't see her as sheps little sister.

[GodWood]

MsSihaKatieKrios wrote...
Tali's romance was pure fanservice.
I mean, it was typical fairytale 'OMG I lurved joo from the start Sheppy! Let's have smoochy smoochy timez nao!' How is that even believable? At least in the other romances, you actually had to work for it. The thrill is in the chase...and there wasn't any for Tali. It was just idol worshipping and idol shagging at its finest. I mean, even Garrus didn't try to jump into your pants the minute he got aboard the Normandy. Tali did.
For me, the romance just felt...wrong. My little sister(Tali) was actually hitting on me SHAMELESSLY. How would you guys feel if your IRL little sister decided to start idol worshipping you and jump into your lap?

That's how I feel.

Modifié par GodWood, 22 juin 2011 - 04:25 .

[InvaderErl]

edit: Ninja'd by Godwood.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 22 juin 2011 - 04:24 .

[JeanLuc761]

MsSihaKatieKrios wrote...

Tali's romance was pure fanservice.
I mean, it was typical fairytale 'OMG I lurved joo from the start Sheppy! Let's have smoochy smoochy timez nao!' How is that even believable? At least in the other romances, you actually had to work for it. The thrill is in the chase...and there wasn't any for Tali. It was just idol worshipping and idol shagging at its finest. I mean, even Garrus didn't try to jump into your pants the minute he got aboard the Normandy. Tali did.

For me, the romance just felt...wrong. My little sister(Tali) was actually hitting on me SHAMELESSLY. How would you guys feel if your IRL little sister decided to start idol worshipping you and jump into your lap?

That's how I feel.

None of the romances really took any work.  All it came down to was picking the right dialogue option after their loyalty mission to initiate, and from then on it was smooth sailing. 

As far as "even Garrus didn't try to jump into your pants the minute he got onto the Normandy.  Tali did."  That's just flat-out wrong.  Like all of the romance interests, the romance didn't actually start until after her loyalty mission, and she had been on the ship for plenty of time before that. 

[DialupToaster]

oh I get it, you dont want a tali romance because it"s not in the CODEX!!!!!!!1!!!!
I'm mad bro!!!!!
no not really

[t3HPrO]

@GodWood, @InvaderErl

[Hennex]

t3HPrO wrote...

@GodWood, @InvaderErl

They're not trolling, they're making a point.  If you would have been following the discussion you would understand.

[Quole]

You cant deny it.

[DialupToaster]

Siansonea II wrote...

MadCat221 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

DaveExclamationMarkYognaut wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

So is this a "hate on the Talimance" thread? Because I think we've seen enough of those already. It's an optional romance after all, it's pretty to avoid it if it's not one's cup of tea.

Romance may be fanservice, but let's stop acting like we don't all want some type of fanservice ourselves, shall we? Even if it's "more classic RPG features" or some kind of combat maneuver, I would hope BioWare wants to give its fans what they want, and not just tell an unsatisfying story in order to distance itself from some nebulous idea that "fanservice" is inimical to good storytelling and creative presentation.

Fanservice = giving the fans what they want.

Making the game good = making the game good.

Making the game good may or may not line up with what the fans want, and should be Bioware's priority here. Otherwise, you end up with Dragon Age 2.

News flash: Some people liked Dragon Age 2. It's been proven. But I guess those people don't matter, what matters is catering to one person's arbitrary idea of "a good game". 

Not enough did, apparently.

Fantastic. In addition to being an "I hate the Talimance" thread, it's now a "I hate Dragon Age 2" thread. Perfect. Maybe we should go for the trifecta, and start talking about planet scanning or something?

Can we tack on jack hate now? pweeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaassssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeee.......?

[t3HPrO]

Avian005 wrote...

t3HPrO wrote...

@GodWood, @InvaderErl

They're not trolling, they're making a point.  If you would have been following the discussion you would understand.

I have. Obvious troll is obvious. Besides, GodWood has a history of that.

[Zall]

MsSihaKatieKrios wrote...

Tali's romance was pure fanservice.
I mean, it was typical fairytale 'OMG I lurved joo from the start Sheppy! Let's have smoochy smoochy timez nao!' How is that even believable? At least in the other romances, you actually had to work for it. The thrill is in the chase...and there wasn't any for Tali. It was just idol worshipping and idol shagging at its finest. I mean, even Garrus didn't try to jump into your pants the minute he got aboard the Normandy. Tali did.

For me, the romance just felt...wrong. My little sister(Tali) was actually hitting on me SHAMELESSLY. How would you guys feel if your IRL little sister decided to start idol worshipping you and jump into your lap?

That's how I feel.

As I said, as a female I could quite well emphasize with Tali. What she did totally makes sense in my eyes, but seems to be disturbing to you. Still, even people in real life aren't always what you think they are.

[Made Nightwing]

GodWood is more of a cynic than a troll. He can be unpleasant, but he usually makes sound points. InvaderErl...haven't seen enough of his posts.

[ThatDancingTurian]

Personally, I don't really like the revelation that Tali was secretly in love with Shepard all along and I just don't appreciate the romance as a whole. I feel like Shepard has too much power in the relationship, it leads to dynamics that make me feel like he's a teacher dating his student. I'll just always see her as that cute teenaged girl on her Pilgrimage that looks up to me like an older sibling, I guess.

That's just my own interpretation and I can't get past it, so I just don't play it. But I respect that not everyone interprets her relationship the way I do and they enjoy it. Not everything in the game can be written with my particular tastes in mind.

I do like the character though. I don't understand people who say she's drastically changed from the first game. She had the fewest lines of any of the squadmates in ME1, so it's not like there was a lot there to contradict in the first place.

I don't know if I'd call it a shout-out or 'fanservice' any more than any of the other romances are. They're all made to appeal to the consumer, who cares if it came from an original idea or feedback from the fans? In the end BioWare is responsible for the quality and integrity of the story, not the fans. They're going to make the decisions they want to, they're not just going to write entire characters based only on what the fans tell them to do.

[DialupToaster]

The Twilight God wrote...

fenix8081 wrote...

Full disclosure: my male Shepard was a talimancer before it was even possible.  However, the more and more I think about it, would she even really want a relationship with Shepard?

Her loyalty to the flotilla is paramount to her character.  She's fiercely loyal to her culture, so would she really want to have a relationship with someone outside of her species? Although there's a one-child policy on the flotilla now, the quarians are planning on getting that homeworld soon=need for repopulation along the "go forth and multiply" lines. 

17 million quarians have people to spare.  You make it out like they are going to line all the women up on their backs and have assigned males run through the line impreganting them.

As pointed out in another of my posts, this shouldn't be possible due to humans and quarians seeming to have very different genes.  So would she have even gone for Shepard?  Is it a heat of the moment in a tense situation thing with no lasting power?  Will she ditch Shepard once her people need her?  Is Kal'reeger gonna be the sperm donor if Shep and Tali work?

Why would they need children? Shepard can't really have children with Liara either. And he can't have children with Miranda. That leaves Jack and Ashley as the only believable romance by this logic. 

So was this a feasible relationship, or did Bioware cater to the other Talimancers and I who wanted a relationship with her in the first game?  Not complaining, but is this relationship really feasbile based on Tali's fierce loyalty to her people?

Yes, it's feasable. The only problem is they should have made the romance develope within the context of ME2 for people who treated her like crap in ME1. It's like Bioware figured she was just to sweet for anyone to treat like dirt so they wrote her assuming everyone was nice to her.
 
Despite this they did cater to talimancers and Garrumancers. Both characters weren't suposed to be in the game (and would show up again in ME3 like the VS) originally and were added due to popularity. Tali replaced Kasumi and Garrus replaced Zaeed on the retail roster. That is why their dialog is so limited and you can't really get any conversation out of them unless you romance them. This applies to all squadmates, but to a greater degree with Tali and Garrus.

This is true? I mean I knew part of kasumi was already in the game but.... REALLY?

[DialupToaster]

King Zeel wrote...

TOTAL FANSERVICE. everyone knows it. who wants to deny the obvious?

this Wants to deny the obvious

[t3HPrO]

Made Nightwing wrote...

GodWood is more of a cynic than a troll. He can be unpleasant, but he usually makes sound points. InvaderErl...haven't seen enough of his posts.

Maybe...but if so, he's doing it all wrong. It definitely looks like trolling.

[InvaderErl]

t3HPrO wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

GodWood is more of a cynic than a troll. He can be unpleasant, but he usually makes sound points. InvaderErl...haven't seen enough of his posts.

Maybe...but if so, he's doing it all wrong. It definitely looks like trolling.

Perhaps, something to remember for the future,

but you need to ease off on how ready you are to throw out judgment without actually getting a handle on the poster you're dealing with. If you had started off easier and not firing off all guns at the very outset there wouldn't have been an issue.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 22 juin 2011 - 05:40 .

[J. Finley]

randomchasegurney wrote...

King Zeel wrote...

TOTAL FANSERVICE. everyone knows it. who wants to deny the obvious?

this Wants to deny the obvious

Jeeeeeez. I had my speakers turned up!

[Ryzaki]

I found it horrible fanservice.

The "I loved you all along." isn't so bad. The way it was constantly shoved down my throat on the other hand made me wanna toss Tali out a damn airlock.