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[Bungie.Net Sucks]

So I've been thinking not all that hard about Mass Effect, having watched the mind-raping, orgasmic E3 gameplay.

So I started thinking of the whole situation for a second, and I was like, "WTF? This makes no sense!"

What do I mean? I'll elaborate.

So, as established by the books & ME1, Sovreign was flying around the galaxy, collecting indoctrinated pawns to assault the Citadel.......... or whatever, for hundreds of years. But then I thought for a quarter of a second; "Wait, aren't the Reapers Billion-year old death gods, with advanced technology? Couldn't Sovreign just have the Reapers contacted, then tell them to hoof it over?"

You heard me; assuming Sovreign wasn't a dunce, he could've easily seized a communications relay, or sent the message himself, and alert the Reapers of the complications. 

This is a pretty reasonable goal I would think; after all, Harbinger was controlling the Collector General from the Galactic void, so it seems reasonable to send a brief message. Wait..... How did Harbinger wake up agai..........

"But it's too far to 'walk'!" I found myself thinking, but then I realized again; the Reapers were like 1 minute away from activating the Alpha Relay & pouring in during the Arrival DLC, so it would've not taken all that long apparently. Even with this, when did the Reapers start traveling towards the Milky Way? Like a moment after the Collector Base was destroyed? So I'm inclined to believe that it took them around........ a month or so to reach the Alpha Relay, give or take a few weeks/months, it's insignificant to death gods, who are said by Vigil to "Be very patient".

With all you've just read (In this thread made for educational purposes), do you think for a moment that the whole plot of Mass Effect makes any sense anymore? I mean really, call me out, I'd love to be wrong here, but it just seems like Sovreign dun goofed, it seems like he had no basic intelligence at all, and his motives seem odd.

And don't say "The Reapers were going towards the galaxy ever since Sovreign woke up!" that's BS; if that were true, why did Sovreign bother doing anything anyway?  Wouldn't it have made sense to wait a few hundred years (Short time for a death god) for his buddies then cluster-......."Pound" the Citadel forces?

"The novels explain everything!" 

No

The novels are pertient to the game's story, but having all this massively-convienient plot laziness covered up with an optional book & not the media of primary concern is rather absurd, and it's a poor excuse for such a disasterous conclusion.

So please tell me I'm wrong, I'd truly like to be, Mass Effect is my favourite series.



I ninja'd the plot

 

Modifié par Bungie.Net Sucks, 19 juin 2011 - 11:47 .

[Kandid001]

My whole life was a lie.

[CaptainZaysh]

In mass 1 you prevented the sneak attack Sovereign was trying to initiate.

[Bungie.Net Sucks]

Kandid001 wrote...

My whole life was a lie.

As was mine

[Chuvvy]

ME has lots of plotholes. The fact that we never use the recording devices that are apparently in our armor for one.

[MisterJB]

It's because they are so patient that they would rather hibernate for a few hundreds years more, waiting for Sovereign to solve the problem than spend the resources it would take to fly all the way from Dark Space.
Also, as far as we know, the Reapers could have started the trip as soon as Sovereign died.

[Bungie.Net Sucks]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

In mass 1 you prevented the sneak attack Sovereign was trying to initiate.

I argued that that whole conflict could've easily been avoided by the Reapers if Sovreign wasn't a retard.

[Clonedzero]

nah dude, once they found out shepard messed up all their dastardly plans they shifted into turbo.

[Bungie.Net Sucks]

MisterJB wrote...

It's because they are so patient that they would rather hibernate for a few hundreds years more, waiting for Sovereign to solve the problem than spend the resources it would take to fly all the way from Dark Space.
Also, as far as we know, the Reapers could have started the trip as soon as Sovereign died.

You see them activating after ME2

Also, 2 years > Hundreds 

Even if they lost power, they could likely replace everything when they got to the Milky Way.

[Paulinius]

Good point, OP.

In the Mass Effect books, when Grayson is injected with Reaper technology, he can hear the Reapers and they take control. So I assume they can contact each other.

Also, they should have quantum entanglement or some other type of communication systems so the scout Reaper (Sovereign) can keep in touch with the Reapers in dark space.

But, I think they wanted to exterminate organics as efficiently and not necessary as quickly as possible. If Sovereign's plan did work, they could have taken everyone by surprise and systematically exterminated them piece by piece instead of charging on in.

[Flashlegend]

Slidell505 wrote...

ME has lots of plotholes. The fact that we never use the recording devices that are apparently in our armor for one.

This. There are plenty of plot holes. Of course, most people never think about them.

[Bungie.Net Sucks]

Paulinius wrote...

Good point, OP.

In the Mass Effect books, when Grayson is injected with Reaper technology, he can hear the Reapers and they take control. So I assume they can contact each other.

Also, they should have quantum entanglement or some other type of communication systems so the scout Reaper (Sovereign) can keep in touch with the Reapers in dark space.

But, I think they wanted to exterminate organics as efficiently and not necessary as quickly as possible. If Sovereign's plan did work, they could have taken everyone by surprise and systematically exterminated them piece by piece instead of charging on in.

That sounds iffy; the Reapers could've easily slipped into the Milky Way undetected, or at the very least kill those that found them. Then they could've prepared an all-out attack on the Citadel that would've been a guaranteed victory, then proceed with their normal plan while replacing the Keepers.

[Flashlegend]

Bungie.Net Sucks wrote...

Paulinius wrote...

Good point, OP.

In the Mass Effect books, when Grayson is injected with Reaper technology, he can hear the Reapers and they take control. So I assume they can contact each other.

Also, they should have quantum entanglement or some other type of communication systems so the scout Reaper (Sovereign) can keep in touch with the Reapers in dark space.

But, I think they wanted to exterminate organics as efficiently and not necessary as quickly as possible. If Sovereign's plan did work, they could have taken everyone by surprise and systematically exterminated them piece by piece instead of charging on in.

That sounds iffy; the Reapers could've easily slipped into the Milky Way undetected, or at the very least kill those that found them. Then they could've prepared an all-out attack on the Citadel that would've been a guaranteed victory, then proceed with their normal plan while replacing the Keepers.

True but I think it's safe to assume that getting from dark space to the galaxy isn't so simple of a task. When you think about it, waiting for sovereign to gain control of the citadel was probably the easiest and most painless way to start the genocide of organic life; well, until he epic failed.

[MisterJB]

Bungie.Net Sucks wrote...
You see them activating after ME2

No, you see a lot of Reapers appearing from Dark Space, that doesn't necessarely mean they were activating.

Also, 2 years > Hundreds 

Even if they lost power, they could likely replace everything when they got to the Milky Way.

And if they just wait, they won't need to replace anything.
The sole purpose of the Reapers existence is to collect resources. Why spend them if their Vanguard is still alive and is intteligent enough to find a way to circumvent the problem?

[Bungie.Net Sucks]

Flashlegend wrote...

True but I think it's safe to assume that getting from dark space to the galaxy isn't so simple of a task. When you think about it, waiting for sovereign to gain control of the citadel was probably the easiest and most painless way to start the genocide of organic life; well, until he epic failed.

Remember, they were seen starting their journey (From what can be roughly guessed from visuals as around 100,000 ly) at the end of ME2, and from there to the conclusion of the Arrival couldn't have been more than a few months. So it would seem far more expedient & less risky.... all around less stupid to simply FTL there themselves.

[shadowreflexion]

Bungie.Net Sucks wrote...

Maybe since the Reapers have been doing what they've been doing for all this time with no one even coming close to stopping them, they've become complacent in their roles as world destroyers. It could be that since they are organic tech then they do have a major weakness of all organics which may be overconfidence? Just throwing that out there.

[Bungie.Net Sucks]

MisterJB wrote...


No, you see a lot of Reapers appearing from Dark Space, that doesn't necessarely mean they were activating.

It is implied that it was the beginning of the journey, and then again, why would some go, and others stay?

And if they just wait, they won't need to replace anything.
The sole purpose of the Reapers existence is to collect resources. Why spend them if their Vanguard is still alive and is intteligent enough to find a way to circumvent the problem?

They would lose very little compared to what they would gain, and guarantee success against sub-standard odds with just Sovreign.

[Paulinius]

Bungie.Net Sucks wrote...

Paulinius wrote...

Good point, OP.

In the Mass Effect books, when Grayson is injected with Reaper technology, he can hear the Reapers and they take control. So I assume they can contact each other.

Also, they should have quantum entanglement or some other type of communication systems so the scout Reaper (Sovereign) can keep in touch with the Reapers in dark space.

But, I think they wanted to exterminate organics as efficiently and not necessary as quickly as possible. If Sovereign's plan did work, they could have taken everyone by surprise and systematically exterminated them piece by piece instead of charging on in.

That sounds iffy; the Reapers could've easily slipped into the Milky Way undetected, or at the very least kill those that found them. Then they could've prepared an all-out attack on the Citadel that would've been a guaranteed victory, then proceed with their normal plan while replacing the Keepers.

True. They could have just have gone to the Alpha relay and no one would have known about them or have been in a position to stop them. From there, they could go directly to the Citadel and game over.

Now it doesn't make sense for them to try to indoctrinate people/species over thousands of years when they could just get to the Alpha relay. It sounds like they made the Alpha relay so they could get to the Citadel and elsewhere in case the Citadel was cut off for some reason.

[Bungie.Net Sucks]

Paulinius wrote...

True. They could have just have gone to the Alpha relay and no one would have known about them or have been in a position to stop them. From there, they could go directly to the Citadel and game over.

Now it doesn't make sense for them to try to indoctrinate people/species over thousands of years when they could just get to the Alpha relay. It sounds like they made the Alpha relay so they could get to the Citadel and elsewhere in case the Citadel was cut off for some reason.

Lol

Ironically, Bioware writers made a massive plot hole even larger. Given that the AR was apparently a backup, it would seem logical for lall of them to just go through that & not bother with the whole Saren thing. Even without the AR, they still made it to Earth after like a year

[Kabanya101]

1) The reapers wait to attack because they want all sentient life to advance to the point where they can be harvested and made into a reaper that has enough organic life to produce thoughts and intelligence. That's why they wait, you don't just go in guns blazing if you want to harvest some slaves, you pick your moments and then attack.

2) Consider the reapers as a sleeping bear during hibernation. They don't wake till their body feels that its right, same with the reapers, they wait to attack till they recieve the communication that it is. But you have to assume that for them to recieve the communication signal it has to be on the same frequency and strong enough to reach out into dark space, but that can't be done without the power of the Citadel.

3) The keepers are the key, they signal Soveriegn when its time, and then he goes in to shut the Citadel down and signal Harbringer and the rest of the reapers to come and harvest the rest of the galaxy.

4) Harbringer didn't directly control the Collector General. Instead, when he was changed from Prothean to a collector, he was instilled with knowledge and procedures that would comply with that of Harbringer.

5) After the events of Mass Effect 1, Harbringer and the other reapers could have been coming towards Earth because when Soveriegn had control of the Citadel, he probably had enough time to send a distress signal or something.

[CaptainZaysh]

You're not listening. Surprise decapitation strike = better than grinding your way through relay after relay to reach the Citadel.

Defenders get a chance to not only destroy the databases that are your traditional main source of intel, but to work together and organise an ultimately successful counter attack.

[MisterJB]

Bungie.Net Sucks wrote...
They would lose very little compared to what they would gain,

We don't know enought to say that. We don't know how Reapers work, how much they spend in the trip from Dark Space, how much resources they gain each cycle, etc.

and guarantee success against sub-standard odds with just Sovreign.

The Reapers are patient and arrogant. They most likely considered that having even one Reaper; and Sovereign was a particularly powerful one judging by its size; would be enough to circumvent the problem.
And even if Sovereign fails, they loose nothing. They will still arrive in our Galaxy and, when they do, their sucess will be pretty much guaranteed.

[AnthonyDraft]

Hmmm....if you put it that way.
Wasn't Sovereign directed with a specific task to activate the Citadel Relay no matter the complications? Because that is the only thing that made Sovereign to do that rather then contacting Reapers imo.
Also, isnn't Collectors base made from Reaper tech? So the explanation on why Harbinger could posses Collector General kind of makes sense, but then again, why Sovereign didn't contact other Repaers from that base :S
Probably because of the stubbornness, but still.

[TheCrakFox]

Perhaps the Reapers aren't actually intelligent, everything they say and do is prerecorded and predetermined. Like a giant killer Furby from space.

[Paulinius]

Bungie.Net Sucks wrote...

Paulinius wrote...

True. They could have just have gone to the Alpha relay and no one would have known about them or have been in a position to stop them. From there, they could go directly to the Citadel and game over.

Now it doesn't make sense for them to try to indoctrinate people/species over thousands of years when they could just get to the Alpha relay. It sounds like they made the Alpha relay so they could get to the Citadel and elsewhere in case the Citadel was cut off for some reason.

Lol

Ironically, Bioware writers made a massive plot hole even larger. Given that the AR was apparently a backup, it would seem logical for lall of them to just go through that & not bother with the whole Saren thing. Even without the AR, they still made it to Earth after like a year

Ya, the plot of Arrival just made the Reapers' plan even more far-fetched. It's like if I locked myself out of my house and instead of using the spare key I have hidden in my yard, I go find a two gangs, infiltrate one gang to make them fight the other one and while they're busy fighting I steal a lockpick they have and then pick the lock on my front door.

Also, when Sovereign went to activate the Citadel and it didn't respond; he already determined it was time for the organics to be harvested. At that point, I would think he would immediately go and contact the other Reapers to invade. What if the organics found out about the Citadel's and the Reapers' secret? He should have gotten reinforcements ASAP instead of giving the organics two thousand more years to develop and advance their technology.