209 réponses à ce sujet

[nitrog100]

Beat this one. Why did Saren need to find the Conduit to get onto the Citadel? He was a SPECTRE. He could have just walked right into the council chambers up until the point that he attacked Eden Prime. Hell, he could have just told the council that the Citadel was a giant mass relay and showed them how to open it themselves.

[Heimdall]

Sovereign needed to interface with the Citadel directly as well apparently.

[Davie McG]

He had to find out what the protheans did to make the keepers ignore the signal. Then via saren sovereign knows what to do to fix it. also by this point he was wanted for murdering Nihlus and attacking Eden Prime.

Edit: also the conduit takes you right to the citadel tower room, which is where Saren needed to be so he could keep the citadel open so sovereign could get in.

Modifié par Davie McG, 20 juin 2011 - 04:12 .

[Heimdall]

Sovereign nor Saren knew how to fix what the Protheans did to the Keepers. They were just trying to get around it by hijacking the Citadel's defenses and allowing Sovereign to interface directly with it.

[onelifecrisis]

I thought it was so they could get a Geth army in there.

[elitecom]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

In mass 1 you prevented the sneak attack Sovereign was trying to initiate.

Pretty much this. To take control of the Citadel as the Reapers usually do is a much more effecient method than to travel through the galaxy as they've been forced to now. It takes much more time and resources for the Reapers, they don't control the movement of Organic species which means that the fight will be tougher. They can't isolate systems or trap entire fleets in star systems, now they'll face more organized resistance.

It's not really a plot hole as you make it out to be. It makes sense.

nitrog100 wrote...

Beat this one. Why did Saren need to find the Conduit to get onto the Citadel? He was a SPECTRE. He could have just walked right into the council chambers up until the point that he attacked Eden Prime. Hell, he could have just told the council that the Citadel was a giant mass relay and showed them how to open it themselves.

All right, remember what Wrex says when you take him to the Council chamber, there's a sniper watching our every move. If he killed the council or showed any signs of hostility, he'd probably have been shot. I think only Sovereign or the Keepers can open the Citadel Mass Relay, I don't think Saren has access to it, and if Saren brought Sovereign to the Citadel, well you know what would've happened.

Modifié par elitecom, 20 juin 2011 - 09:49 .

[Srast]

Bungie.Net Sucks wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

In mass 1 you prevented the sneak attack Sovereign was trying to initiate.

I argued that that whole conflict could've easily been avoided by the Reapers if Sovreign wasn't a retard.

Actually, I would put it down as classic over-confidence. And over-confidence can be a weakness as exploidable as incompetence.

[arne1234]

Their are many things the Reapers could have done, they could have used software so every relay required a Reaper IFF to travel safely trough it. The collectors could have ordered a new group of prisoners and indoctrinated them to cause a war or release a biological weapon on the citadel that forces it to be evacuated (similar like omega)

[Smeelia]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Well I apparently missed this thread until now. I've not read all of it, but basically yeah you're right OP, and you're not the first to notice this.

I see a lot of people commenting that ME already has a lot of plot holes. So what? Because plot holes already exist, we shouldn't care when more of them appear? That's... illogical.

I don't really think it is a plot hole, there are a few decent explanations for it already if you read the whole thread.  I've given a possible explanation (on page 4, near the bottom) that doesn't seem to have any strong evidence against it (and while it can't be proved for certain there's at least evidence to support it).

arne1234 wrote...

Their are many things the Reapers could have done, they could have used software so every relay required a Reaper IFF to travel safely trough it. The collectors could have ordered a new group of prisoners and indoctrinated them to cause a war or release a biological weapon on the citadel that forces it to be evacuated (similar like omega)

The Relay network is controlled through the Citadel so the easiest way to affect them all would be to access the Citadel (which is what Sovereign tries).  Changing them individually may have been possible but it probably would have taken some work and people would have noticed relays suddenly being cut off and might have noticed the big dangerous ship doing it, if Sovereign was destroyed without reaching the Citadel it could have been even worse than what did happen.

It'd be difficult to release a biological weapon or otherwise cause the Citadel to be evacuated (especially in the higher security areas) and even if you did succeed it might not help much since there'd be a lot of activity around the Citadel and tighter security to make sure only rescue ships get in.  The Conduit was a better option by far.

I'm not so sure why the Protheans left the Conduit intact, it's possible they just didn't have the means to destroy it or that they didn't want to destroy it since doing so could also destroy the whole facility (and possibly planet) and they still wanted the warning message intact (they do seem to have had hope that other Protheans might have somehow survived).

[CaptainZaysh]

Smeelia wrote...

I'm not so sure why the Protheans left the Conduit intact, it's possible they just didn't have the means to destroy it or that they didn't want to destroy it since doing so could also destroy the whole facility (and possibly planet) and they still wanted the warning message intact (they do seem to have had hope that other Protheans might have somehow survived).

The more interesting question to me is why the Reapers left it intact.  In ME1, if you speak to Garrus near the relay statue, he mentions that the keepers never seem to go near it.

[SKiLLYWiLLY2]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Smeelia wrote...

I'm not so sure why the Protheans left the Conduit intact, it's possible they just didn't have the means to destroy it or that they didn't want to destroy it since doing so could also destroy the whole facility (and possibly planet) and they still wanted the warning message intact (they do seem to have had hope that other Protheans might have somehow survived).

The more interesting question to me is why the Reapers left it intact.  In ME1, if you speak to Garrus near the relay statue, he mentions that the keepers never seem to go near it.

I'm pretty sure the conduit was built after the reapers left.

[Nightdragon8]

To everyone, everyone is assuming that the reapers had more time to spare. And I think its linked the to issues of "Dark Energy" effecting the sun causing it to age faster. For all we know they are preventing the galaxy from dieing out. So the fact that he had to do something right then could have been other issues involved. As the ship said. Are reasons are so much that you can not understand.

So lets say that waiting 100 years could cause a serious amount of damage to the galaxy (there "food" )

As for the reason he couldn't contact the rest of the reapers is because the Citidel Relay was the only one closed to the Reapers in darkspace for infomation to be sent from. And the keepers where not responding to its commands.

Harbenger seems to be the only other Reaper that was around to wake anyone else up. That could have been a fluke that he was awake when the other Reaper died. To hear the news. Could have easily been asleep for 100+ years not knowing what happend. And by then the "dust" would become a serious threat to the Reapers.

As it seems the Reapers screwed up in putting all the control of the mass relays on the citideal effectively there Achilles heel. They were so over confident that the system was untamperable that it bit them. (Go Murphy's Law!!!)

Edit: Above post: It couldn't have been put there after the Reapers left because the way the Scientst got on the station was because it was there beforehand. It may have been emitting something that kept the keepers away. Remember Kaidan said it was humming when you went near it with him.

Modifié par Nightdragon8, 20 juin 2011 - 11:11 .

[sponge56]

Its not a plot hole in the slightest. A group of friends and I send someone 10 minuets down the road to get us all pizza. The friend rings up and tells us that the shop we wanted the pizza from is closed, so we tell him to go find another pizza shop. Now we don't all run down to the shop with him because that would be a collective waste of energy, why would we do that when we can make the poor sod whose already there do all the work. Although I realise its not the worlds most fantastic analogy, same can be applied to the reapers. Why would they all waste energy going to the alpha relay when sovereign can, lets be fair, JUST DO HIS JOB and fix the problem.

[azerSheppard]

1. Reapers aside from sovereign where asleep in dark space, it's possible that that contacting them was impsossible unless the Citidel control system was used, sending a signal (researched by Chorban) to the sleeping reapers, waking them up/

Now the reapers did receive the signal, infact the first one to react was harbinger, sending his collector drones (controlled via implants like Grayson) after Shepard.
At the same time they started to ftl travel towards the closest relay, the one Sheploo blew up.

Your problem is solved.

[candidate88766]

The Reapers may have been travelling towards the galaxy ever since the Keepers failed to respond to Sovereign's signals, thousands of years before ME1. They may have some kind of portable Relay with them, in case Sovereign did find a way to open the Citadel. Remember, the Conduit was on a planet, so its position was constantly changing with regards to its opposite end on the Citadel, yet it still worked. There's no reason why the builders of the Relays and the Citadel couldn't have some kind of portable Relay they could take with them as they travel towards the galaxy over thousands of years.

You could try to argue that Sovereign should have tried to go directly to the Citadel after the signal failed, but it had no way of knowing why the signal failed or that the Protheans were behind it. It would've assumed that the current civilization had found a way to block the signal, implying they knew something about the Cycle, and so it had to stay hidden and find another way.

The only real plot-hole that has been mentioned is why Saren didn't just fly Sovereign into the Citadel as a Spectre, claiming it as a new flagship or something. A counter-argument could be that if the Council didn't trust him and decided to prevent Sovereign entering the Citadel it had no back up, and the Citadel fleet - along with any other fleets within reach of a Relay connecting to the Citadel - could destroy him with their combined efforts. Also, it wouldn't have been as good of a game.

Until we know more about how the Reapers got to the galaxy, or how long they travelled for, we can't say what is and what isn't a plot hole.

Basically, at least wait until we know the whole plot.

[Gterror]

For me my biggest plothole is how Shepard is walking in 90 degress angle in ME1 when he/she jumps out of the elevator and across the Citadel when Sovereign gets inside Citadel,Its hard to explain but watch how Sovereign is positsioned and the arm where Sovereign holds onto is upwards.How is it possible to Shepard to walk upwards in 90 degrees angle?

I know its not based on ME3 so dont hit me plz

[candidate88766]

Gterror wrote...

For me my biggest plothole is how Shepard is walking in 90 degress angle in ME1 when he/she jumps out of the elevator and across the Citadel when Sovereign gets inside Citadel,Its hard to explain but watch how Sovereign is positsioned and the arm where Sovereign holds onto is upwards.How is it possible to Shepard to walk upwards in 90 degrees angle?

I know its not based on ME3 so dont hit me plz

No idea, I just assumed some kind of magnetic boots. The real question would be why there would be such massive walkways on the Citadel Tower, but it was one of, if not the best set piece in the trilogy so far, so its excused.

[Gabriel S.]

Bungie.Net Sucks wrote...

*snip snip*

I've got a solution for ya.

This is a technique I've been using for quite awhile now. It's called "suspension of disbelief." In practical terms what it means is: you see some BS - you eat it up!

[candidate88766]

Gabriel Stelinski wrote...

Bungie.Net Sucks wrote...

*snip snip*

I've got a solution for ya.

This is a technique I've been using for quite awhile now. It's called "suspension of disbelief." In practical terms what it means is: you see some BS - you eat it up!

Either that or people could just use their imaginations.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

You would think that the technologically superior Reapers, who are likely a few hundred million years ahead of other galactic civilizations would of discovered the entangled pair communications platform that is on the Normandy 2. Perhaps the Reapers are bored of doing genocide properly and just wanted to "wing it" this time around? I guess it makes some sense to shut down the relays and study organic life at their leisure as organic life is crippled.

[Kidd]

I never saw any issue with their plans, but perhaps my mind is filling in blanks for me? I always thought of it as a matter of resources, although I don't know the exact numbers behind anything.

Flying through a mass relay doesn't use up any fuel of any kind. It's basically teleportation. The Reapers leave a single Vanguard (Sovereign) to open the relay that is the Citadel for them to reap the galaxy, getting new "fuel" and perhaps even being able to make a new Reaper or two in the process. They've been doing this since forever every 50 000 years, it's always worked.

But when time grows near, Sovereign notices the Keepers won't fire up the Citadel mass relay. So instead he decides to allow the other Reapers rest while he takes care of business. After all, as long as they're hybernating, they use up very little resources, so he can wait a really long time before the races become powerful enough to become a real threat anyways. However, Shepard and co stops Sovereign. So that kinda sucks for the Reapers.

The Reapers then decide to have the Collectors who have been conducting experiments on the galaxy's sentient races for them to perform a new task. They'll head over to this place called the Terminus systems, where the stupid organics have decided not to look after each other. Then they'll create a new Reaper, basically Sovereign MKii, and MKii will resume the first Sovereign's plans.

But Shepard ruins that too. So the Reapers decide to start using up tons of fuel to all attack in a single, organised force instead. The galaxy will still be reaped, but the net outcome of the newly reaped resources compared to their expenses getting here may very well end up setting them back some 20 extinction cycles. While that's not enough to ruin the Reaper race (hence they're not awfully worried as we can tell from how Harbinger taunts Shepard) by any means, it's quite a bad set back that will take about a million years to make up for.

The whole alpha relay thing is just a jump that will shorten their walk. They still all have to fly the majority of the way manually, it's but a way to save some time and a bit more resources. Shepard denied them that as well. So let the organics have that hollow victory. When the Reapers arrive full force in March, they will darken the sky of every world. While they may have felt some set backs in their schedule and planning, the organics cannot escape their doom. They're still cattle that needed entire fleets to take down a single Reaper - a couple of ant farms facing a nuclear bomb.

[Exolyps]

Smeelia wrote...

It'd be difficult to release a biological weapon or otherwise cause the Citadel to be evacuated (especially in the higher security areas) and even if you did succeed it might not help much since there'd be a lot of activity around the Citadel and tighter security to make sure only rescue ships get in.  The Conduit was a better option by far.

Actually, in Mass Effect Galaxy the Batarians almost manage to spread some **** on the Citadel. Could be related, or proff that it's almost possible?


And oh, I don't think there is much of plot holes out there. If you don't count the fact that a record of Sarens voice had him lose specter status in ME1 and you being able to fake a voice record in ME2. Makes you wonder why they where so easy to trust that recording, could easly been fake.

And why not bring someone from the council to see the broken reaper ship?

Besides that I'm just curious as to why ME2 happen. I've yet to make sense of it. Why did they create the baby? If it was to create a new reaper to open the citadel. Does that mean they didn't start "walking" until after the base was destroyed? In that case, how could they arrive so fast at Arival, or does Arival not play out until a year or so after?

I wonder if that will be better explained in the future.

[suprhomre]

OP you just killed ME. Thank you! Now I wouldn't be able to enjoy ME3.

[lloyd87]

I thought the reapers came every 50,000 years? therefore when they reach earth it will be the 50,000th year since they last destroyed everything.

I was always under the thought that sovereign was merely a scout sent out to find something to kill? and then contact his buddies for backup.