119 réponses à ce sujet

[PinkDiamondstl]

Eradyn wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

The hate for MMOs............oh boy were do I start. Why do I have to pay for the game and then pay to play it with other people that I don't even wanna even play with.

Because you aren't necessarily paying to play with other people.  You would be, of course, if those are the mechanics you want to take advantage of.  No, initial box sales are normally meant to recoup costs of development and
initial set-up of infrastructure, advertising, and so forth.  The subscription is because you are directly paying for the continued upkeep of the game (servers, electricity and other utilities, developer salaries, staff, etc.) and continued content creation. 

Even so they still suck...............

[ladyvader]

My biggest problem with MMO is paying a monthly fee on top of the money you forked over for the game itself. That and too many people cheat in MP games and I don't want to play with people like that. I prefer my RPGs to remain single player.

Most people, myself included, wanted KotOR 3 not a MMO. That is also why I won't bother with it. Now an ME MMO, I might look into because they are finishing Shepard's story, but the Revan story is incomplete and that is on Lucas Arts for not getting the third game made.

It is been in the works for almost four years now and it is still no release date. It the problem on BioWare's side or Lucas Arts?

Modifié par ladyvader, 20 juin 2011 - 12:53 .

[In Exile]

Il Divo wrote...
This. You are one of a million 'nobodies' in an mmo. In Baldur's Gate II, you were the Bhaalspawn. In Jade Empire, you were the last of the spirit monks. In Origins, you were the hero of Fereldan. MMOs can't really offer that, not when every player must be treated equally.

I've also found that MMOs tend to be very 'grind-heavy' which is something I'm against. I like killing things, but moreso when there is a motivation involved. Bioware claims to be fixing this with TOR, but I'm not impressed based on what I've seen. I'd take KotOR 3 over the MMO in a heartbeat.

This is a very good point. But isn't Bioware trying to essentially create self-contained single player subscription content with TOR? I have no idea because I have no interest in the game, but that's what I heard.

[Eradyn]

In Exile wrote...

Il Divo wrote...
This. You are one of a million 'nobodies' in an mmo. In Baldur's Gate II, you were the Bhaalspawn. In Jade Empire, you were the last of the spirit monks. In Origins, you were the hero of Fereldan. MMOs can't really offer that, not when every player must be treated equally.

I've also found that MMOs tend to be very 'grind-heavy' which is something I'm against. I like killing things, but moreso when there is a motivation involved. Bioware claims to be fixing this with TOR, but I'm not impressed based on what I've seen. I'd take KotOR 3 over the MMO in a heartbeat.

This is a very good point. But isn't Bioware trying to essentially create self-contained single player subscription content with TOR? I have no idea because I have no interest in the game, but that's what I heard.

I'm going to requote myself here...

"TOR is exciting to me in that it is many single-player experiences all in one (100+ hours of material per class? With multiple branching story points? With the ability to forge relationships, romantic and otherwise, with NPCs? YES PLEASE.), but with all the multiplayer experiences individuals desiring such mechanics could desire."

There will be more single-player content in the initial release client than their actual single-player games combined, iirc.  And that's not counting replay value.  I mean really...100+ hours worth of content for a single class playthrough? With the promise of more content down the line? Thats nothing to sneeze at.

Modifié par Eradyn, 20 juin 2011 - 01:01 .

[Il Divo]

In Exile wrote...

This is a very good point. But isn't Bioware trying to essentially create self-contained single player subscription content with TOR? I have no idea because I have no interest in the game, but that's what I heard.

That's what they've claimed. Admittedly, I've not followed up on it as closely as I did in the earlier days of development. But from what I remember, they are attempting to push the 'play alone' experience.
 
The problem is that you get the 'Mass Effect 3 multiplayer' problem all over again.

Bioware is primarily known for their single player campaigns. Mass Effect 3 is a single player campaign. By adding resources to fuel a co-op/horde mode/whatever, this diverts resources from the SP campaign. The MMO issue follows the same logic ten-fold. Perhaps Bioware can create a decent single-player/multi-player experience with tOR. But I doubt it will be anywhere close to what can be achieved if they designed only an SP experience, in which case they don't have to make every player feel like a common grunt.

[crimzontearz]

In Exile wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
giggity..... that sounded wrong.........



sorry couldn't help it

Given Fox News and ME1, and then TW2... who says you are wrong?:happy:

again

giggity

[thetruefreemo]

I don't like them because they're low quality and I don't like monthly fees.

[Lunatic LK47]

Turnip Root wrote...

Maderek wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

I also have yet to find a MMORPG that doesn't get boring after awhile.

I've yet to find any game that doesn't get boring after a while.

I feel I get burnt out on some games after a while but after a hiatus I can revisit them and have fun again.  I still play my Dreamcast religiously.

MMORPGs make you feel obligated to play because you have other online friends who are depending on you.  I don't want that kind of responsibility when playing a game.  It's a leisure activity, not a job.

Bolded for emphasis. This is coming from someone who played The Matrix Online during junior year of high school in 2005 and lost interest around 2008 because of certain business practices by Sony Online Entertainment. I feel sorry for the players that were not able to log in frequently as the "liaisons" for the canon Matrix characters.

[Eradyn]

Turnip Root wrote...

Maderek wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

I also have yet to find a MMORPG that doesn't get boring after awhile.

I've yet to find any game that doesn't get boring after a while.

I feel I get burnt out on some games after a while but after a hiatus I can revisit them and have fun again.  I still play my Dreamcast religiously.

MMORPGs make you feel obligated to play because you have other online friends who are depending on you.  I don't want that kind of responsibility when playing a game.  It's a leisure activity, not a job.

Then you either (1)don't play the mmo or (2)you play the mmo as a leisure activity and refrain from agreeing to take on any amount of responsibility you are not comfortable with or able to take on.

I play the vast majority of my MMO's as solo experiences.  When I joined guilds, I made sure to join "family" or "casual-style" guilds where there were no such responsibilities placed on the player.  With MMO's, you get back what you put in, and that is not necessarily meant in the way of loot and experience gain.

[In Exile]

Eradyn wrote...
I'm going to requote myself here...

"TOR is exciting to me in that it is many single-player experiences all in one (100+ hours of material per class? With multiple branching story points? With the ability to forge relationships, romantic and otherwise, with NPCs? YES PLEASE.), but with all the multiplayer experiences individuals desiring such mechanics could desire."

There will be more single-player content in the initial release client than their actual single-player games combined, iirc.  And that's not counting replay value.  I mean really...100+ hours worth of content for a single class playthrough? With the promise of more content down the line? Thats nothing to sneeze at.

Bioware alleges this. But they also said that the story is designed to be played through with a player created party, using the dialogue wheel (with multiple people chiming in). So we'll see. I'm very skeptical.

Il Divo wrote...

That's what they've claimed. Admittedly,
I've not followed up on it as closely as I did in the earlier days of
development. But from what I remember, they are attempting to push the
'play alone' experience.
 
The problem is that you get the 'Mass
Effect 3 multiplayer' problem all over again.

Bioware is
primarily known for their single player campaigns. Mass Effect 3 is a
single player campaign. By adding resources to fuel a co-op/horde
mode/whatever, this diverts resources from the SP campaign. The MMO
issue follows the same logic ten-fold. Perhaps Bioware can create a
decent single-player/multi-player experience with tOR. But I doubt it
will be anywhere close to what can be achieved if they designed only an
SP experience, in which case they don't have to make every player feel
like a common grunt.

If what Bioware is really doing is a subscription based RPG (that's online) then maybe it can work, because it really wouldn't be an MMO at all. Who knows. I'm as skeptical as you are, though.

[Eradyn]

In Exile wrote...

Eradyn wrote...
I'm going to requote myself here...

"TOR is exciting to me in that it is many single-player experiences all in one (100+ hours of material per class? With multiple branching story points? With the ability to forge relationships, romantic and otherwise, with NPCs? YES PLEASE.), but with all the multiplayer experiences individuals desiring such mechanics could desire."

There will be more single-player content in the initial release client than their actual single-player games combined, iirc.  And that's not counting replay value.  I mean really...100+ hours worth of content for a single class playthrough? With the promise of more content down the line? Thats nothing to sneeze at.

Bioware alleges this. But they also said that the story is designed to be played through with a player created party, using the dialogue wheel (with multiple people chiming in). So we'll see. I'm very skeptical.

Er...yes.  If you are in a group and you are going through a story-driven mission, the system is designed to allow seamless story progression in a group setting.  IF you are in a player group.  If you aren't, it's a moot issue.

[thesilverlinedviking]

ladyvader wrote...

My biggest problem with MMO is paying a monthly fee on top of the money you forked over for the game itself. That and too many people cheat in MP games and I don't want to play with people like that. I prefer my RPGs to remain single player.

Most people, myself included, wanted KotOR 3 not a MMO. That is also why I won't bother with it. Now an ME MMO, I might look into because they are finishing Shepard's story, but the Revan story is incomplete and that is on Lucas Arts for not getting the third game made.

It is been in the works for almost four years now and it is still no release date. It the problem on BioWare's side or Lucas Arts?

KOTOR 3 was cancelled a while ago. It's because LucasArts was going through a difficult period and had to cancel it. It's sad cuz apparently they actually designed a lot of the content.

[KingNothing125]

I'm going to wait and see how the KOTOR MMO turns out before judging any possible ME MMO. As a general rule, however, I dislike MMOs because they are static worlds where story progression and player decisions don't affect anything, making the entire experience somewhat hollow. I'll happily change my tune if the KOTOR MMO manages to break that mold.

[CrimsonNephilim]

I played WoW for a while. I quit because:

Monthly fee
Gets too repetitive.
Level grinding is annoying and boring
You play for hours to get the best gear possible just to have it become obsolete within a few months due to the added content through Patches and Expansions makes all the hours you spent on the game worthless because now you have to go through that all over again for the upgraded gear.
All the updates and attempts to balance the game out ends up screwing the balance between classes so either one becomes weaker or overpowered.
Nerdrage players

[Legbiter]

I like SP games and I've already served my time in the Skinner cage known as WoW. Never again.

[Eradyn]

Remember: WoW does not all MMO's make. There are some gems that change things up a bit. They have a tendency to be more niche the more they shake things up, but they do exist. If you want to encourage more unique game mechanics and design decisions, people need to support those MMO's to encourage developers to take those risks. If people keep playing WoW, well...guess what most developers are going to make? =/

I understand WoW is the MMO entry-point for many gamers these days, but people need to know they are welcome to branch out. Anyone would get burnt out playing the same thing over and over again.

[thesilverlinedviking]

Also, if TOR flops, wouldn't that put a big dent in EA and BioWare? That would be over 300 million dollars EA flushed down the toilet. As for BioWare, I am not sure what would happen.

[Legbiter]

Sorry but a game labeled as an MMO will always be filled with repetitive instance runs, whining guildmates, tedious grinding and just overall ennui after 3 months or so.

MMO's deserve to die. I say this as a 2 year WoW veteran.

It's too late for me but you can still redeem yourself.

[BloodyTalon]

thesilverlinedviking wrote...

Also, if TOR flops, wouldn't that put a big dent in EA and BioWare? That would be over 300 million dollars EA flushed down the toilet. As for BioWare, I am not sure what would happen.

They would go have a Tea Party and look for a new host most likely.

[mopotter]

I don't hate MMO's I just don't want to play them.
I don't play well with others.
I don't like to ask for help.
I don't like to try and pretend the person I'm talking to isn't sitting at the computer just like me.
Those are the main reasons I don't care for MMO.

[CrimsonNephilim]

I've been a WoW player off and on since the game came out in 2004. I just recently gave up the game. I have no problem with MMOs. If it looks interesting, I'll give it a go. I signed myself up for TOR beta to see how it plays.

I've tried others as well:
Guild Wars
Aion
Rift
Final Fantasy XI *shudders*

None of them got my interest or lost my interest within a few days/weeks. After leaving WoW, I'm probably going to stay off MMOs for a while.

Modifié par CrimsonNephilim, 20 juin 2011 - 01:43 .

[In Exile]

Eradyn wrote...
Er...yes.  If you are in a group and you are going through a story-driven mission, the system is designed to allow seamless story progression in a group setting.  IF you are in a player group.  If you aren't, it's a moot issue.

That means exclusive content designed to work entirely with a group. And if it's well done, it means it has to work with groups of potentially different sizes. Which means lots of unique content. All of which I have to pay to support, and none of which I'd want to play.

I don't see how it would be cost justified. It's like buying an FPS for the music.

[Eradyn]

thesilverlinedviking wrote...

Also, if TOR flops, wouldn't that put a big dent in EA and BioWare? That would be over 300 million dollars EA flushed down the toilet. As for BioWare, I am not sure what would happen.

If history is anything to go by...

Every BW fan had better hope TOR doesn't flop.  With the resources BW has gone through for TOR, there will be little left of them to save if they fail.  EA is taking a gamble on this MMO and BW stands to lose everything if this doesn't succeed.

In Exile wrote...

Eradyn wrote...
Er...yes.  If
you are in a group and you are going through a story-driven mission, the
system is designed to allow seamless story progression in a group
setting.  IF you are in a player group.  If you aren't, it's a moot
issue. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

That
means exclusive content designed to work entirely with a group. And if
it's well done, it means it has to work with groups of potentially
different sizes. Which means lots of unique content. All of which I have
to pay to support, and none of which I'd want to play.

I don't see how it would be cost justified. It's like buying an FPS for the music.

Seriously

You're paying for the initial client and then upkeep and future development.  What you choose to experience or not is up to you, but it's all still accessible for you to partake in if you desire. Just as with a single player game, such as ME2, you pay for the use of the software and it's up to you to decide if you want to experience all the variables the game offers.  Just because you don't choose to see what every variable gives you, doesn't mean that which you wanted to experience is of less or no value.  With TOR, at least, you would still have an enormous amount of single-player content...and when you've exhausted it, guess what? You can stop paying any time; there is no gun held to your head (unless you're a Chinese gold seller).

Modifié par Eradyn, 20 juin 2011 - 01:54 .

[BloodyTalon]

d00ds c00l traed its l33t

One reasons why MMOs are sometimes not fun, I am crappy typer but that isn't even trying.

Modifié par Talosred, 20 juin 2011 - 01:50 .