119 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Eradyn wrote...
Every BW fan had better hope TOR doesn't flop.  With the resources BW has gone through for TOR, there will be little left of them to save if they fail.  EA is taking a gamble on this MMO and BW stands to lose everything if this doesn't succeed.

If TOR sells 3 million copies at $60 (isn't that the new pricepoint for the PC?) that's 180 million straight up. The usual MMO fee is, what, $20/month? If 50% of the users play for another month, Bioware could recoup about 210 million, so producing TOR at a -90 million loss. With 4 million users and 50% loss, that means 240 million along with the $20 subscription fee for 50%, that's 280 million and the game breaks even.

Some studio might survive, given profits from the ME series.

I think it's better to hope someone can sweep up most of the Bioware talent and keep it toghether for a release under a new name than for TOR suceed IMO.

[In Exile]

Eradyn wrote...
You're paying for the initial client and then upkeep and future development.

But the majority of that is content that I don't want. Let's say 30% of the content is multiplayer only, and 20% is group story content, with 50% pure SP (this is probably not the case with an MMO, but let's say it is). That means that .50 of every dollar I spend goes to fund content I will never want. That's ignoring which parts of the SP content I might be paying for that I might not like.

That's my point.

What you choose to experience or not is up to you, but it's all still accessible for you to partake in if you desire. Just as with a single player game, such as ME2, you pay for the use of the software and it's up to you to decide if you want to experience all the variables the game offers.  Just because you don't choose to see what every variable gives you, doesn't mean that which you wanted to experience is of less or no value.

But I'd buy ME2 because 90%+ of the content in the game is content that is enjoyable. I don't buy games that have less than 80% of the content that is in the enjoyable to highly enjoyable category for me.

With TOR, at least, you would still have an enormous amount of single-player content...and when you've exhausted it, guess what? You can stop paying any time; there is no gun held to your head (unless you're a Chinese gold seller).

We don't know how much single player content there is in TOR, nor how enjoyable it might be. Based on what you said, I'm willing to give it a free trial, if one is available, though.

[BloodyTalon]

Modifié par Talosred, 20 juin 2011 - 02:05 .

[Eradyn]

In Exile wrote...

Eradyn wrote...
Every BW fan had better hope TOR doesn't flop.  With the resources BW has gone through for TOR, there will be little left of them to save if they fail.  EA is taking a gamble on this MMO and BW stands to lose everything if this doesn't succeed.

If TOR sells 3 million copies at $60 (isn't that the new pricepoint for the PC?) that's 180 million straight up. The usual MMO fee is, what, $20/month? If 50% of the users play for another month, Bioware could recoup about 210 million, so producing TOR at a -90 million loss. With 4 million users and 50% loss, that means 240 million along with the $20 subscription fee for 50%, that's 280 million and the game breaks even.

Some studio might survive, given profits from the ME series.

I think it's better to hope someone can sweep up most of the Bioware talent and keep it toghether for a release under a new name than for TOR suceed IMO.

Standard MMO fee is currently $15/month.  They need a subscription base of 500,000 to keep it profitable and that's still "nothing to write home about."  500,000 subs is optimistic...very optimistic numbers for most companies.  EA wants at least 1 million.

EA did not get into this whole mmo business with Bioware to merely "break even."  I think you are a little too unrealistically optimistic over the nature of a business such as EA.  At an estimated cost of over $300,000,000 for developing a still-unfinished TOR, BW had better hope for better numbers and for a longer-lasting sub base.

History does not suffer fools gladly.  Yes, if it fails, some of BW's talent will be retained.  BW itself, however, will not be treated with as much mercy.  No studio, no matter how big or previously successful, can survive such failure intact.

In Exile wrote...

Eradyn wrote...
You're paying for the initial client and then upkeep and future development.

But
the majority of that is content that I don't want. Let's say 30% of the
content is multiplayer only, and 20% is group story content, with 50%
pure SP (this is probably not the case with an MMO, but let's say it
is). That means that .50 of every dollar I spend goes to fund content I
will never want. That's ignoring which parts of the SP content I might
be paying for that I might not like.

That's my point.

Then you need to analyse what that SP content is worth to you.  Keep in mind, those who would not bother with single player content and would stick as much to MP content as possible will also be "losing out" by having part of their sub go toward the development of SP content.  In reality, anyone who chooses to ignore various content would "arguably" be paying for content they don't enjoy.

BUT they are also paying for content they do enjoy.

But I'd buy ME2 because 90%+ of the content in the
game is content that is enjoyable. I don't buy games that have less
than 80% of the content that is in the enjoyable to highly enjoyable
category for me.

You can only say that now because you have played it.  You haven't played TOR; it's kind of difficult to make such a judgment against it at this point.

We don't know how much single player
content there is in TOR, nor how enjoyable it might be. Based on what
you said, I'm willing to give it a free trial, if one is available,
though.

Actually, again, we do have some idea the approximate amount of content there is in TOR.  Over 100 hours per class playthrough, not counting future content.  No, we don't know how enjoyable it might be, as no one has actually gone hands-on with the game for any great length of time.  We can surmise, based upon various game features and mechanics, if it might be something enjoyable to us.

Think of it this way.  If you buy just the box at release, chances are it will include the standard 1-month of free play.  That will give you the opportunity to play through at least one class and its story.  You don't have to pay any more than that and you can count that as your single-player KOTOR experience.

This is all moot, however.  It's up to each individual to determine the value of any particular game to them, and if it's not something you see yourself deriving any enjoyment from, then that is that. *shrug*

Modifié par Eradyn, 20 juin 2011 - 02:17 .

[Weiser_Cain]

Monthly payments for a game you'll never own and that can die and go away forever.
Weak story.
Griefing.
Sub-par Graphics.

[Eradyn]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

Monthly payments for a game you'll never own and that can die and go away forever.
Weak story.
Griefing.
Sub-par Graphics.

*You never truly own any game...and not all games can be Diablo II and last on the shelves forever.  However, if it's a successful game, it can last far, far longer.
*This is BW, supposed king of story-crafting.  If any mmo has a shot at having a good story, it's TOR.
*Griefing is easy to avoid.  And stay away from any PvP zones if you've thin skin.
*Depends entirely on the mmo.  I have played MMO's with amazing, breathtaking graphics that rival even today's games.  I have also played MMO's with craptastic graphics but are designed to be widely accessible.  Graphics, however, are not nearly as important as artistry.

[thesilverlinedviking]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

Monthly payments for a game you'll never own and that can die and go away forever.
Weak story.
Griefing.
Sub-par Graphics.

*In return for monthly payments you get frequently updated content and patches. I think most people can cut 15$ off one of their paychecks to pay for it. And you can stop paying anytime.
*I'm confident Bioware will be able to make an MMO with a great story
*Griefing will happen in any game, it's just a part of MP
*Graphics don't matter as much as gameplay or the artistic design of the game

[Noob451]

almost nobody on the bioware social network really care for multiplayer, it's something you get used to

[MonkeyKaboom]

Eradyn wrote...
Then you either (1)don't play the mmo or (2)you play the mmo as a leisure activity and refrain from agreeing to take on any amount of responsibility you are not comfortable with or able to take on.

I play the vast majority of my MMO's as solo experiences.  When I joined guilds, I made sure to join "family" or "casual-style" guilds where there were no such responsibilities placed on the player.  With MMO's, you get back what you put in, and that is not necessarily meant in the way of loot and experience gain.

So basically you played solo up to level cap then quit?  You weren't doing anything of any worth in end game with your playstyle.  Unless you plan to tell me you pay $15 a month to go bang a pickaxe against fake metal....

Ironic that you criticize someone as being a casual player yet you can't even get yourself into anything above mediocre with your playstyle.  Have fun with that pickaxe...

[thesilverlinedviking]

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

Eradyn wrote...
Then you either (1)don't play the mmo or (2)you play the mmo as a leisure activity and refrain from agreeing to take on any amount of responsibility you are not comfortable with or able to take on.

I play the vast majority of my MMO's as solo experiences.  When I joined guilds, I made sure to join "family" or "casual-style" guilds where there were no such responsibilities placed on the player.  With MMO's, you get back what you put in, and that is not necessarily meant in the way of loot and experience gain.

So basically you played solo up to level cap then quit?  You weren't doing anything of any worth in end game with your playstyle.  Unless you plan to tell me you pay $15 a month to go bang a pickaxe against fake metal....

Ironic that you criticize someone as being a casual player yet you can't even get yourself into anything above mediocre with your playstyle.  Have fun with that pickaxe...

You never do anything of any worth in any video game, unless you're playing Wii Fit or something. He wasn't saying he was playing the game and not interacting with anyone at all. He would probably play the actual gameplay solo but still would probably talk to people and sell things on the markets. Lots of people do that and they still have fun with MMOs. Also, he wasn't accusing anyone of being a 'casual' player, he said he joined casual guilds so he wouldn't have people relying on him, and vise versa.


almost nobody on the bioware social network really care for multiplayer, it's something you get used to


Well, that's certainly true

Modifié par thesilverlinedviking, 20 juin 2011 - 02:56 .

[Gatt9]

thesilverlinedviking wrote...

Why is it that people hate the fact that KOTOR got turned into an MMO and that ME might get an MMO after ME3?
I think it would be pretty cool to have an ME3, creating your character from any race, then running around a fully designed Citadel or Omega with your friends, or having your own customizeable starship. You could be a miner, or a merchant, or be a freelance merc, or join one of the Terminus Merc bands, the list goes on.

Why?

1.  Nothing like what you listed ever happens,  that was the promise of several different games,  such as Star Wars Galaxies,  and invariably they never deliver anything but a mega-grind.

2.  Which is my next point,  it's grinding away on a carefully designed treadmill intended to keep you paying and investing absolutely massive amounts of time for years on end. 

3.  They're not designed to give you a great experience,  they're designed such that you waste as much time as possible in order to keep revenues up.

4.  They're not designed to tell you a story,  or let you "Be somebody",  because everyone is equally important it's just bland.

5.  Then there's the grief players who spend all of their time making your life hell,  wasting your time,  and money for lulz.

6.  The games are constant cess pools of fighting and high-school whining that is maddening to have to sit through.

They're all just enourmous treadmills meant to keep the mice running for as long as possible,  not a single one is intended to be a great game,  just a great treadmill.

For the record,  I played:  Ultima Online (Beta through launch),  Everquest,  Asheron's Call,  Asheron's Call 2(Beta only),  Star Wars Galaxies(Up until the patch before the combat change),  Earth and Beyond,  and Rift.  I've plenty of experience with MMOs,  and each and every one was just designed to waste my time without returning the entertainment value any given single player game has.

[Il Divo]

Gatt9 wrote...

Why?

1.  Nothing like what you listed ever happens,  that was the promise of several different games,  such as Star Wars Galaxies,  and invariably they never deliver anything but a mega-grind.

2.  Which is my next point,  it's grinding away on a carefully designed treadmill intended to keep you paying and investing absolutely massive amounts of time for years on end. 

3.  They're not designed to give you a great experience,  they're designed such that you waste as much time as possible in order to keep revenues up.

4.  They're not designed to tell you a story,  or let you "Be somebody",  because everyone is equally important it's just bland.

5.  Then there's the grief players who spend all of their time making your life hell,  wasting your time,  and money for lulz.

6.  The games are constant cess pools of fighting and high-school whining that is maddening to have to sit through.

They're all just enourmous treadmills meant to keep the mice running for as long as possible,  not a single one is intended to be a great game,  just a great treadmill.

For the record,  I played:  Ultima Online (Beta through launch),  Everquest,  Asheron's Call,  Asheron's Call 2(Beta only),  Star Wars Galaxies(Up until the patch before the combat change),  Earth and Beyond,  and Rift.  I've plenty of experience with MMOs,  and each and every one was just designed to waste my time without returning the entertainment value any given single player game has.

I... never thought I'd say this, but....this post. In its entirety.

[Eradyn]

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

Eradyn wrote...
Then you either (1)don't play the mmo or (2)you play the mmo as a leisure activity and refrain from agreeing to take on any amount of responsibility you are not comfortable with or able to take on.

I play the vast majority of my MMO's as solo experiences.  When I joined guilds, I made sure to join "family" or "casual-style" guilds where there were no such responsibilities placed on the player.  With MMO's, you get back what you put in, and that is not necessarily meant in the way of loot and experience gain.

So basically you played solo up to level cap then quit?  You weren't doing anything of any worth in end game with your playstyle.  Unless you plan to tell me you pay $15 a month to go bang a pickaxe against fake metal....

Ironic that you criticize someone as being a casual player yet you can't even get yourself into anything above mediocre with your playstyle.  Have fun with that pickaxe...

You don't know what I did or didn't do.  Get off your high horse and don't pretend.  I got value with my time and enjoyment from the game.  For me, it's the journey not the destination, though the destination is still certainly part of the package.  That's what I paid for.  Just as an mmo gamer with a different playstyle and goals would get something else from the game.  I don't criticize, say, hardcore raiders or loot grinders as I know it's hypocritical and bigoted of me to believe that my playstyle and manner of enjoyment is somehow superior to another's when the reality is people enjoy MMO's (and games in general) for different reasons.  Nor am I so narcissistic as to tell someone whether they are playing the game "correctly" or "incorrectly" just because I play differently.

Their gripe was that they didn't want to feel obligated to remain with a game because of other people.  A valid concern.  I offered a suggestion, one possible solution, for how I handle it beyond "lol don't play then," though that certainly is a valid option.

thesilverlinedviking wrote...

You never do anything of any
worth in any video game, unless you're playing Wii Fit or something. He
wasn't saying he was playing the game and not interacting with anyone
at all. He would probably play the actual gameplay solo but still would
probably talk to people and sell things on the markets. Lots of people
do that and they still have fun with MMOs. Also, he wasn't accusing
anyone of being a 'casual' player, he said he joined casual guilds so he
wouldn't have people relying on him, and vise versa.


almost nobody on the bioware social network really care for multiplayer, it's something you get used to


Well, that's certainly true

Exactly. I interacted with a lot of people, from strangers in passing to guildmates, and I participated in many different game features.  The key for me was to make sure I refrained from taking on too many responsibilities...or making commitments I couldn't keep.  That sort of thing, as I couldn't afford to be so invested in any particular game that I couldn't walk away from it.

Modifié par Eradyn, 20 juin 2011 - 03:05 .

[TexasToast712]

I dont want ME turned into a MMO because I dont have the time to invest into playing a MMO nor do I want to play one (Or pay a monthly fee to play). MMO's are for no lifers. They also cheapen the game's universe.

[thesilverlinedviking]

Gatt9 wrote...

thesilverlinedviking wrote...

Why is it that people hate the fact that KOTOR got turned into an MMO and that ME might get an MMO after ME3?
I think it would be pretty cool to have an ME3, creating your character from any race, then running around a fully designed Citadel or Omega with your friends, or having your own customizeable starship. You could be a miner, or a merchant, or be a freelance merc, or join one of the Terminus Merc bands, the list goes on.

Why?

1.  Nothing like what you listed ever happens,  that was the promise of several different games,  such as Star Wars Galaxies,  and invariably they never deliver anything but a mega-grind.

2.  Which is my next point,  it's grinding away on a carefully designed treadmill intended to keep you paying and investing absolutely massive amounts of time for years on end. 

3.  They're not designed to give you a great experience,  they're designed such that you waste as much time as possible in order to keep revenues up.

4.  They're not designed to tell you a story,  or let you "Be somebody",  because everyone is equally important it's just bland.

5.  Then there's the grief players who spend all of their time making your life hell,  wasting your time,  and money for lulz.

6.  The games are constant cess pools of fighting and high-school whining that is maddening to have to sit through.

They're all just enourmous treadmills meant to keep the mice running for as long as possible,  not a single one is intended to be a great game,  just a great treadmill.

For the record,  I played:  Ultima Online (Beta through launch),  Everquest,  Asheron's Call,  Asheron's Call 2(Beta only),  Star Wars Galaxies(Up until the patch before the combat change),  Earth and Beyond,  and Rift.  I've plenty of experience with MMOs,  and each and every one was just designed to waste my time without returning the entertainment value any given single player game has.

This... I don't know what to say to this... 

[Sith Reaper]

Eradyn wrote...

You are absolutely correct about TOR - I am extremely optimistic about its development, and from various testers impressions, it sounds delightful. In addition, the game designers have multiple types of players in mind, with Damion Schubert, a lead designer on TOR, describing how the game needs to cater to casual/hardcore/solo/group players.

To add on, they have said players in Game Testing take an average 200 hours for each class's main story, not counting world quests and other activities in the game. 


Furthermore, the game is not 300 million in cost - it approximates 100 million, according to Community Manager Stephen Reid. The 300 million came from the "EA Lousse," who Stephen Reid, in response, said that many of the facts are wrong; the game is indeed 80-100 million, if I remember correctly.

As to why to play for solo content: MMO's are larger than any games on the market. The class story alone for one of eight classes (excluding every other thing in the game) is larger than the first two KOTOR games, and the whole Mass Effect series. That's worth paying for after purchase.

Now, back on topic: I feel a Mass Effect MMO would not be out for years to come, if at all. BioWare and EA may not wish to split the playerbase across two MMO's.

[Whatever42]

I've been following swtor and its actually looking *pretty* good. The story driven play and full VO makes it almost feel like mass effect and not grindy at all. You will have NPC squadmates and romances, main quests, regional quests, class quests that will be all very mass effectish. The darkside/lightside points you get will influence your appearance, powers, and even quests - again, very mass effect.

Sure, it will all end in a grind but apparently every class has a huge amount of custom quests and each faction has different quests so the replayability will be very high. I suspect I'll play around in it for a while.

However, it is so like mass effect in mechanics, making a whole second mmo just like it except different lore seems unlikely. They would just canabalize their own mmo and I doubt EA would bankroll it.

[Virginian]

The reason I refuse to support MMOs

1. Boring after a short while.
2. Little to no story to support it.
3. They are made solely for nickel and diming those who play it.
4. Gridning. Feeds reason 3. Supports reason 2.
5. Farming. Feeds reason 3. Supports reason 2.
6. I heard one boss fight took double digit hours to fight.

I play to be entertained, grinding and farming are not entertaining and a lot of content requires high levels and decent gear, to get that requires massive amounts of grinding and farming.

If I pay for a game I expect to be able to play it without forking out more money.

MMOs are games for people without lives and are made by companies who want easy money maintenance and for little work.

I don't support multplayer in games like Halo, Call of Duty, Gears of War because there is no redeeming value for me.

Modifié par Virginian, 20 juin 2011 - 03:13 .

[Anathemic]

MMOs are fine, and not all of them are P2P, Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Dungeons and Dragons Online, etc.

As for the ones who are P2P its due to the fact that it costs money to run damn servers and as subscriber count increases more money is needed. Aside from stability, there's content patches. MMOs live on constant stream of content. Money is needed to produce content.

[Sith Reaper]

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

Eradyn wrote...
Then you either (1)don't play the mmo or (2)you play the mmo as a leisure activity and refrain from agreeing to take on any amount of responsibility you are not comfortable with or able to take on.

I play the vast majority of my MMO's as solo experiences.  When I joined guilds, I made sure to join "family" or "casual-style" guilds where there were no such responsibilities placed on the player.  With MMO's, you get back what you put in, and that is not necessarily meant in the way of loot and experience gain.

So basically you played solo up to level cap then quit?  You weren't doing anything of any worth in end game with your playstyle.  Unless you plan to tell me you pay $15 a month to go bang a pickaxe against fake metal....

Ironic that you criticize someone as being a casual player yet you can't even get yourself into anything above mediocre with your playstyle.  Have fun with that pickaxe...

Lad, he was trying to say that to the poster he was responding to that he can, in fact, be a casual/solo player in an MMO, to prove it is possible; not insult him.

[mopotter]

CrimsonNephilim wrote...

I've been a WoW player off and on since the game came out in 2004. I just recently gave up the game. I have no problem with MMOs. If it looks interesting, I'll give it a go. I signed myself up for TOR beta to see how it plays.

I've tried others as well:
Guild Wars
Aion
Rift
Final Fantasy XI *shudders*

None of them got my interest or lost my interest within a few days/weeks. After leaving WoW, I'm probably going to stay off MMOs for a while.

Played Guild Wars for awhile.  It was fun.  And then I came to an area I couldn't get into without someone helping me open the door.    Yes, everyone was very nice and I had opened doors for people who needed help but I don't like to ask for help so I didn't go back.  

TOR sounds good, I like the universe and I will probably try it, but unless I can play the whole thing by myself, I doubt very much if I'll finish it.  Asking my son-in-law to help me and my "video love interest" really does not make me a happy player.  <_<  And I don't want to meet his video love interest. ewwww.

[Eradyn]

Sith Reaper wrote...

Eradyn wrote...

You are absolutely correct about TOR - I am extremely optimistic about its development, and from various testers impressions, it sounds delightful. In addition, the game designers have multiple types of players in mind, with Damion Schubert, a lead designer on TOR, describing how the game needs to cater to casual/hardcore/solo/group players.

To add on, they have said players in Game Testing take an average 200 hours for each class's main story, not counting world quests and other activities in the game. 


Furthermore, the game is not 300 million in cost - it approximates 100 million, according to Community Manager Stephen Reid. The 300 million came from the "EA Lousse," who Stephen Reid, in response, said that many of the facts are wrong; the game is indeed 80-100 million, if I remember correctly.

As to why to play for solo content: MMO's are larger than any games on the market. The class story alone for one of eight classes (excluding every other thing in the game) is larger than the first two KOTOR games, and the whole Mass Effect series. That's worth paying for after purchase.

Now, back on topic: I feel a Mass Effect MMO would not be out for years to come, if at all. BioWare and EA may not wish to split the playerbase across two MMO's.

First, to the bolded: Thank goodness. Okay, $100,000,000, while still a good chunk of change, is far easier to swallow than $300,000,000.  Thank you.  I've been worrying for BW over that $300 million number for a while...but $100 million isn't as nervewracking.

Second: Incredibly thrilled to hear people are getting that many hours out of each class.  There are no words for my anticipation over that alone, nevermind the other features it includes.

[AC5]

While I can't speak for everyone I can say that when I look into a MMO I am most interested in the pvp aspect as the story usually suffers. I have never seen the appeal of MMORPGs as they often end up as grind fest and require significant time investments to fully experience and the only fun I ever had in WoW was beating the twink characters with an under equipped character.

And for the people saying MMOs can't be fun I have never had more fun in a game than in the MMOFPS Planetside as there has just never been a game so far that can compete with the thrill of having your army abandon you and 15 other guys to hold a base against a force over 9 times your size and still after 40+ minutes of fighting still come out on top.

As for people hating MMOs on the BSN I think it comes from the type of MMOs they have tried as I have never found a MMORPG worth playing the more casual MMOs on the other hand that focus instead on game play rather than trying to create persistent time sink I have found quite enjoyable.

I don't really see the appeal of TOR as it sounds to me like they came up with the idea for a sp game then morphed it into a MMO. I do agree it seems like a great risk and, one I feel is unnecessary as I believe Bioware should stick to it's strengths.

And apologies to the TL:DR crowd.
Summary I don't have much faith in any MMORPG but, not all MMOs suck and it might be nice to be proven wrong.

[thesilverlinedviking]

Sith Reaper wrote...

Eradyn wrote...

You are absolutely correct about TOR - I am extremely optimistic about its development, and from various testers impressions, it sounds delightful. In addition, the game designers have multiple types of players in mind, with Damion Schubert, a lead designer on TOR, describing how the game needs to cater to casual/hardcore/solo/group players.

To add on, they have said players in Game Testing take an average 200 hours for each class's main story, not counting world quests and other activities in the game. 


Furthermore, the game is not 300 million in cost - it approximates 100 million, according to Community Manager Stephen Reid. The 300 million came from the "EA Lousse," who Stephen Reid, in response, said that many of the facts are wrong; the game is indeed 80-100 million, if I remember correctly.

As to why to play for solo content: MMO's are larger than any games on the market. The class story alone for one of eight classes (excluding every other thing in the game) is larger than the first two KOTOR games, and the whole Mass Effect series. That's worth paying for after purchase.

Now, back on topic: I feel a Mass Effect MMO would not be out for years to come, if at all. BioWare and EA may not wish to split the playerbase across two MMO's.

Only $100 Million, good. I was baffled when they said it cost $300 million but $100 million is more reasonable. And I heard a long time ago that this game has more story then all of the Bioware games put together . I don't know if that's true but if it is... [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie]

[javierabegazo]

thesilverlinedviking wrote...


Only $100 Million, good. I was baffled when they said it cost $300 million but $100 million is more reasonable. And I heard a long time ago that this game has more story then all of the Bioware games put together . I don't know if that's true but if it is... [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie]

But by story do they mean "Fetch Quests? Isn't that the basis of most quests in MMO's?  This is a genuine question, I don't play MMO's. I don't believe in paying a subscription to play a game, one time, one price is good for me.