119 réponses à ce sujet

[Weiser_Cain]

Eradyn wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

Monthly payments for a game you'll never own and that can die and go away forever.
Weak story.
Griefing.
Sub-par Graphics.

*You never truly own any game...and not all games can be Diablo II and last on the shelves forever.  However, if it's a successful game, it can last far, far longer.
*This is BW, supposed king of story-crafting.  If any mmo has a shot at having a good story, it's TOR.
*Griefing is easy to avoid.  And stay away from any PvP zones if you've thin skin.
*Depends entirely on the mmo.  I have played MMO's with amazing, breathtaking graphics that rival even today's games.  I have also played MMO's with craptastic graphics but are designed to be widely accessible.  Graphics, however, are not nearly as important as artistry.

I'm playing Kotor. As far as your griefing tip goes I have a better one, I just don't play those games.
TOR looks like garbage, and it's actually gotten better looking than what they were apparently aiming for initially.

thesilverlinedviking wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

Monthly payments for a game you'll never own and that can die and go away forever.
Weak story.
Griefing.
Sub-par Graphics.

*In
return for monthly payments you get frequently updated content and
patches. I think most people can cut 15$ off one of their paychecks to
pay for it. And you can stop paying anytime.
*I'm confident Bioware will be able to make an MMO with a great story
*Griefing will happen in any game, it's just a part of MP
*Graphics don't matter as much as gameplay or the artistic design of the game

Unless
I lose my job. And it's not like an expansion pack where you can buy it
if it's interesting or not, you pay regardless of if you're going to
play the added content. As a chronic low leveler I have dumped months of
subcription costs into high level content or pvp improvments in several
games. I don't pvp, my hihest level WOW character was 31 and I only got
there because I was quitting and I wanted to be sure it didn't get
better once I got a mount, I did but not enough to justify supporting a
game full of some of the worse people in the world.


...Oh and did I mention you can't mod mmos?

[JetsoverEverything]

becasue The Old Republic will fail and we fear that a Mass Effect MMO will do the same

[In Exile]

Eradyn wrote...
Standard MMO fee is currently $15/month.  They need a subscription base of 500,000 to keep it profitable and that's still "nothing to write home about."  500,000 subs is optimistic...very optimistic numbers for most companies.  EA wants at least 1 million.

EA did not get into this whole mmo business with Bioware to merely "break even."  I think you are a little too unrealistically optimistic over the nature of a business such as EA.  At an estimated cost of over $300,000,000 for developing a still-unfinished TOR, BW had better hope for better numbers and for a longer-lasting sub base.

I wouldn't see why you would fold a profitable studio. If TOR tanked and the losses were outrageous, that would be one thing. But there are at least 3 Bioware studios: Austin, Montreal and Edmonton. Austin is making TOR, and Edmonton is making DA and ME. If the DA/ME teams are putting you in the black by several million ever 2 years, why would you shut down that studio, if your only failure comes out of the Austin studio, which at any rate breaks even?

It's just not a smart business decision.

History does not suffer fools gladly.  Yes, if it fails, some of BW's talent will be retained.  BW itself, however, will not be treated with as much mercy.  No studio, no matter how big or previously successful, can survive such failure intact.

Bioware is technically 2 or 3 studios.

In Exile wrote...
Then you need to analyse what that SP content is worth to you.  Keep in mind, those who would not bother with single player content and would stick as much to MP content as possible will also be "losing out" by having part of their sub go toward the development of SP content.  In reality, anyone who chooses to ignore various content would "arguably" be paying for content they don't enjoy.

BUT they are also paying for content they do enjoy.

I don't know what other people do. I know what I do, and what I do is not pay for content that doesn't add  value. If a game has any significant portion that's value negative to me, then I won't buy it. If much of the game is value neutral, then it depends on how much value is added by features I do like.

You can only say that now because you have played it.  You haven't played TOR; it's kind of difficult to make such a judgment against it at this point.

Actually, I bought ME because I liked KoTOR. And I bought KoTOR because I rented it first. I always rent before I buy, or play a demo.

Actually, again, we do have some idea the approximate amount of content there is in TOR.  Over 100 hours per class playthrough, not counting future content.  No, we don't know how enjoyable it might be, as no one has actually gone hands-on with the game for any great length of time.  We can surmise, based upon various game features and mechanics, if it might be something enjoyable to us.

That's something you can say for a known quantity, but TOR is an experiment. We have no idea what will come out of this MMO experiment on Bioware's part. Bioware says there'll be 100+ hours of 'content' but that's really an empty claim without knowing what 'content' means.

Think of it this way.  If you buy just the box at release, chances are it will include the standard 1-month of free play.  That will give you the opportunity to play through at least one class and its story.  You don't have to pay any more than that and you can count that as your single-player KOTOR experience.

But I wouldn't pay $60 for a SP game without a free-trial (e.g. a demo). I appreciate that some gamers buy a game to try it, but I'm more frugal with my money. Not that I can't afford it, but rather that I don't find it worthwhile to jump the gun so much.

[thesilverlinedviking]

JetsoverEverything wrote...

becasue The Old Republic will fail and we fear that a Mass Effect MMO will do the same

If TOR fails then we'll be lucky if Bioware stays in business, nevermind getting another MMO from them

[Whatever42]

javierabegazo wrote...

thesilverlinedviking wrote...


Only $100 Million, good. I was baffled when they said it cost $300 million but $100 million is more reasonable. And I heard a long time ago that this game has more story then all of the Bioware games put together . I don't know if that's true but if it is... [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie]

But by story do they mean "Fetch Quests? Isn't that the basis of most quests in MMO's?  This is a genuine question, I don't play MMO's. I don't believe in paying a subscription to play a game, one time, one price is good for me.

You pay for DLC, right? 

Quests are becoming far better written in mmos. Even if some quests are fetch quests, usually there is a story woven around it that makes it pretty interesting. I actually even enjoyed the single player questing in cataclysm - the stories were for the most part very interesting. 

My only problem with mmos is that eventually the interesting stuff comes to an end and then you're left with the end-game. The raiding part of the end-game can be pretty interest, because it continues some of the stories but its incredibly time consuming. The solo, small-group portion of the end-game is grinding, which doesn't appeal to me at all. So I can't imagine me playing an mmo more than a few months anymore, even if the leveling game is amazing.

What SWTOR does, though, is try to enhance replayability. In WoW, you can level another faction but the faction-specific quests end pretty quickly. At a certain point, its all content you played before. In SWTOR, they have a huge amount of hours in the class quests, which might actually make the game fun to replay.

[shepskisaac]

The existence of TOR rules out Mass Effect MMO for the next 6-8 years IMO. After that? Sure, it would be almost an ideal successor to TOR MMO. But not now. I expect shooter franchise with multiplayer set in the ME universe next (most likely not from BW itself).

Modifié par IsaacShep, 20 juin 2011 - 03:38 .

[The Twilight God]

thesilverlinedviking wrote...

Why is it that people hate the fact that KOTOR got turned into an MMO and that ME might get an MMO after ME3?
I think it would be pretty cool to have an ME3, creating your character from any race, then running around a fully designed Citadel or Omega with your friends, or having your own customizeable starship. You could be a miner, or a merchant, or be a freelance merc, or join one of the Terminus Merc bands, the list goes on.

Warcraft MMO comes out. End of the good Warcraft RTS games.

Old Republic MMO comes out. There is no hope for another Old Republic RPG.

ME MMO comes out. End of the good ME Action /RPG games.

[Sith Reaper]

javierabegazo wrote...

thesilverlinedviking wrote...


Only $100 Million, good. I was baffled when they said it cost $300 million but $100 million is more reasonable. And I heard a long time ago that this game has more story then all of the Bioware games put together . I don't know if that's true but if it is... [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie]

But by story do they mean "Fetch Quests? Isn't that the basis of most quests in MMO's?  This is a genuine question, I don't play MMO's. I don't believe in paying a subscription to play a game, one time, one price is good for me.

In the case of BioWare's TOR, it plays like Mass Effect and KOTOR, but with multiplayer twists, such as group Mass Effect-style conversations, lightside/darkside points, and pretty much everything you expect from a BioWare game - the story is being heralded as stunning for each of the classes, with companion characters, romances, and so on. It then comes with MMO features for more group style play, and the content itself is on a large scale (200 hours per class story, excluding faction quests, side quests, world arcs, 'Flashpoints', and other story driven content). A lot of regular MMO features have even been designed to fit within story, with companion characters crafting for you and Operations (raids) said to tie into story experiences.

As to grinding, to quote Georg Zeller, Combat Designer: "The main story line [for each class] continues very close to max level. Even after that, we have quests, group quests, Flashpoints, PvP to level up with. Random mob grinding is not a preferred progression feature in our game. In fact, it's inefficient."

The idea is to make an MMO catered to RPG players. Assuming it does well and succeeds in that goal, a ME MMO would not be so unlikely; and, as said above, an ideal successor to TOR.

Modifié par Sith Reaper, 20 juin 2011 - 03:52 .

[Eradyn]

IsaacShep wrote...

The existence of TOR rules out Mass Effect MMO for the next 6-8 years IMO. After that? Sure, it would be almost an ideal successor to TOR MMO. But not now. I expect shooter franchise with multiplayer set in the ME universe next (most likely not from BW itself).

Agreed.  If there is to be a Mass Effect MMO, I doubt it would come to fruition anytime soon and not before other games set in the ME universe.  I imagine they'd like to see how a full-fledged game set in the ME universe will fare when it has nothing or little to do with the main trilogy.  I hope the ME universe has enough potential and traction that people will keep coming back to it for its own merits and not shun it because Shepard's story ended.

In Exile wrote...
*snip*

I understand BW has multiple studios.  All I can say to you is I hope they do not fail with TOR...but if they do, I sincerely hope your more optimistic vision succeeds over mine.

As for the rest...I personally believe the content is more than enough to justify the cost, but that's me and I'm not exactly interested in browbeating you into a purchase. You made your money and you do with it as you wish.

Modifié par Eradyn, 20 juin 2011 - 03:49 .

[thesilverlinedviking]

IsaacShep wrote...

The existence of TOR rules out Mass Effect MMO for the next 6-8 years IMO. After that? Sure, it would be almost an ideal successor to TOR MMO. But not now. I expect shooter franchise with multiplayer set in the ME universe next (most likely not from BW itself).

Well that's true. I wouldn't mind a shooter game set in ME universe either, with Battlefield style multiplayer.

[vader da slayer]

hey guys publishers front the money for development cost not developers. ie Lucasarts (the publisher of SW:TOR) is fronting the dev cost on the project. not Bioware.

also an ME MMO could easily work with a Citadel Forces vs Terminus Systems setup. this could tie into the end of ME3 where something along the way that you do (something that you can't change and will happen) causes the Terminus Systems and Citadel Space to go to war. (which considering how much its talked about seems likely too happen eventually).

[In Exile]

Eradyn wrote...
I understand BW has multiple studios.  All I can say to you is I hope they do not fail with TOR...but if they do, I sincerely hope your more optimistic vision succeeds over mine.

It's possible, is what I'm saying. I think Austin folds no matter what, but I don't think EA folds Edmonton unless DA3 flops, or ME3 does. TOR has to tank hard to get Edmonton closed down, because I'd wager they'd want to preserve the Bioware brand as long as possible.

As for the rest...I personally believe the content is more than enough to justify the cost, but that's me and I'm not exactly interested in browbeating you into a purchase. You made your money and you do with it as you wish.

You talked me into researching TOR. That's a something, eh?

[Matchy Pointy]

I doubt Bioware will make a ME MMO with Old Republic on the way out, two MMOs in similar settings from one company is a bit too much. And I have nothing agasint multiplayer games in the ME universe, I just dont want to see it in ME3.

[Nimrodell]

After 5 years of playing WoW, hard core raiding as well as casual play, I don't have slightest intention of letting other people command my free time or spoil the game for me. I can't stand a thought of ME turned into another MMO... just imagine, you log on and then some smartarse tells you how to specc 'cause 'that's the best specc according to some ME Elitist Jerks', constant balancing of the classes meaning you spent more time reading than playing, endless farming, not to mention constant competing over numbers instead of actually being with your guild mates, gear obsession... just yuck, never again I hope.

[Lumikki]

thesilverlinedviking wrote...

Why is it that people hate the fact that KOTOR got turned into an MMO and that ME might get an MMO after ME3?
I think it would be pretty cool to have an ME3, creating your character from any race, then running around a fully designed Citadel or Omega with your friends, or having your own customizeable starship. You could be a miner, or a merchant, or be a freelance merc, or join one of the Terminus Merc bands, the list goes on.

Why don't you play mmorpgs first about 10 years and then come back then ask why?

It's not really the game, but the people (players) in the game what is problem.

Modifié par Lumikki, 20 juin 2011 - 10:03 .

[Nerdage]

In principle I don't think there's anything wrong with a Mass Effect MMO, but in practice I only have so much money to spend on MMO subs, and between WoW; TOR, when it releases; and maybe even Rift when I upgrade my computer, I'm already going to be pushing it by the end of the year.

And really you don't need alot of MMOs because for obvious reason you're only ever going to be playing so many at once, and since I have all the MMO I need for now I'd prefer more single player RPGs because I can play as many single player games as I want, but to play a new MMO I'd need to quit one I'm already playing.

That's my reason, anyway.

Modifié par nerdage, 20 juin 2011 - 10:23 .

[Liou]

I don't play MMOs. I am only interested in singleplayer RPGs. Other people just get in the way in my opinion. I need to be able to immerse myself in the game. I need to be able to think like my character, and i can't do that when i am constantly being reminded that this is just a game. I need to feel that the things i do actually matters, that my character can make a difference. And most of all, i just want to be alone. Really, i am not the least bit interested in playing with other people, that's not why i play games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age. It's like reading a good book, it's something i need to experience alone. I'll share my experience and discuss the game with others when i don't play, like i am doing now. That is the social aspect of this kind of games to me.

So to answer your question. I hate the idea because the game would be useless in my opinion. It would be a waste of time and money which they could have spend on making a great singleplayer game instead. I also think it's completely unnecessary, there is plenty of MMOs out there.

[Eleinehmm]

I have never seen a MMORPG not breaking it’s own Lore horribly. I like the ME Universe -> don’t want any MMORPGs set in it.
P.S The Galaxy of Fantasy on the others side … But then again, some people just don’t like using their omnitranslators

Modifié par Eleinehmm, 20 juin 2011 - 10:36 .

[Razor_Zeng]

thesilverlinedviking wrote...

Why is it that people hate the fact that KOTOR got turned into an MMO and that ME might get an MMO after ME3?

For me the main thing to hate about games being turned in to MMO's is you are never likely to see a seqaul to the original games ever again.

Look at WoW. Based on the WarCraft series, three good games and expansions came out then Blizzard made an MMO and now no new WarCraft game is likely to come out. Why would they make a single player version of that game when they can milk people for $15 a month to play the same universe.

[Nightdragon8]

There is a reason why KotOR did so well. They where roleplaying. In every MMO in the market there is no Roleplaying. sure sure there are "Roleplaying" servers but look at WoW's RP servers there isn't any RPing being done. Aion/Conan/Rift/DnDO. There was no role playing. All it was, you do x quest get y exp and z money. Then it's off to the next quest. WoW accutly did something to make it seem like you are "changing the world" The only problem is that1 they havn't taken it to the point they need to take it.

The problem with a more advanced version of that is, if one person decides to destory a city vs saving it 1 person in the group may be out of the group, and it would make playing with friends a "You have to do the same thing I do" and put a strain on the friendship needlessly.

Bioware has made itself a name in Role Playing Games. Because you are role playing the game. And you can do that in a Single player game. Multiplayer games fail at it because it forces a side.

The only real way to make Mass Effect a MMO is if they do what they did for the ORGINAL Star wars Galaxies. EvE online is also a good example of a game that could be good. Because like in the Mass Effect Universe there is no real "side" to the game.

So the MMO scene is no where near a real single player RPG. Its really just a MMOG because there is no real Roleplaying in the game. Unless it is enforced (which tends to force the population counts to stay small)

Edit: So in closing its the fact that MMO only really stands for Massive Multiplayer Online Gaming and the RP is non existant.

Modifié par Nightdragon8, 20 juin 2011 - 10:49 .

[DadeLeviathan]

I hate that Kotor was turned into an MMO because I wanted Kotor 3. At best I will get the wrap up of Revan and the Exile's stories in backstory exposition in TOR.

I dislike MMOs because I have yet to play one that made it possible to be immersed. In an MMO, it is impossible to become immersed because you reminded every second by the various out-of-character comments that you are playing a game. Also I have yet to play a game that doesn't survive on tedious gameplay, perceived rewards and grinding. And while some players, for whatever reason, like that type of gameplay I would rather gouge my eyes out with a spoon.

[Skirata129]

KaidanWilliamsShepard wrote...

That sounds wicked man!
EA is no fun, so they probably wouldnt allow it unless there were a bunch of guns involved in the game.

but... I like guns.

[Tachai03]

The objectives wouldn't be as immersive in an MMO.

Most of the time, objectives in MMOs consist of "retrieve me 10 [item here]'s" or "I need you to kill [big creature here]"
...At least, that's what the norm seems to be. There's also the issue of grinding, PVP, types of enemies, etc. It would pale in comparison to the Mass Effect game series.

Not to mention a lot of people on MMOs are either elitist, whiny, annoying, stupid or all 3. That's just my thoughts. If they could somehow get the stars and planets to align and make it work, why not? Thing is, it most likely wont work.

[Eradyn]

Re:Annoying People

Any self-respecting MMO does allow the option to place people on an ignore list or even to customize chat boxes...or to just close the chat box. True, you'll never be able to wholly avoid other humans. You'll run past their avatars for example, or perhaps buy something they made or whatever...but in most MMO's you can shut them out almost completely. It does, I admit, remarkably help improve some situations. RP servers are also great in that you can justifiably report every jerkoff that goes around breaking immersion...and have a fighting chance the mods will do something about it.

Understandably, not everyone is willing to do even that...but just letting people know there are things that can reasonably be done to make it as enjoyable and immersive as possible.

Eleinehmm wrote...

I have never seen a MMORPG not breaking it’s own Lore horribly. I like the ME Universe -> don’t want any MMORPGs set in it.
P.S The Galaxy of Fantasy on the others side … But then again, some people just don’t like using their omnitranslators

Some might argue ME has already broken its lore horribly all without being an mmo. Now, how horrible it really is is up for debate.

I think TOR will show us a lot about BW and how they'll handle future projects...and we'll see how they handle lore creation and continued content creation. It'll either be a game to treasure, or a horrible awkward gaming fiasco thing. At which point fighting the mobs in ME3, Skyrim, The Witcher 2, or KoA:Reckoning will be a welcome distraction, so, you know, a win either way.

Modifié par Eradyn, 20 juin 2011 - 12:36 .