194 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Good points. Hey, I have a vision of the first colony on Mars...but we only have a few months so time and funding are going to be issues. There is no time to train astronauts or really build anything. All we have now are bottle rockets and earthworms but hey, my idea sure is innovative! Look at it's merits!

[TEWR]

mrcrusty wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

Why change so much if you don't have the time or money to make it work, nor the vision to keep all of these new elements cohesive?

Change in budget halfway through?

I'm pretty sure they knew from the beginning about the budget and development cycle. EA did not pull a LucasArts and cut a third of development time halfway through the project.

If they did, then it would be like KotOR 2, where the game was literally unfinished and a quarter of it's planned content would be on the disk, but not in the game.

What if that made DA2 better?



But on a more serious note, even a few extra months would've gone a long way.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 20 juin 2011 - 02:09 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

Why change so much if you don't have the time or money to make it work, nor the vision to keep all of these new elements cohesive?

Change in budget halfway through?

I'm pretty sure they knew from the beginning about the budget and development cycle. EA did not pull a LucasArts and cut a third of development time halfway through the project.

If they did, then it would be like KotOR 2, where the game was literally unfinished and a quarter of it's planned content would be on the disk, but not in the game.

What if that made DA2 better?

If Obsidian has ever taught us anything, that answer to that question is no.

... Screw your serious notes, I want to misquote you so I can correct you.

[Rauhallinen]

Bioware is is certainly using the word innovative very innovatively. They are really approaching the top Hollywood level of bull here.

It's kinda like listening to a former art cinema director trying to not sound like a sellout while giving an interview about  his newly directed Hollywood fart-joke teen comedy.

Modifié par Rauhallinen, 20 juin 2011 - 02:41 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I remember in the lead up interviews and stuff, they said they were taking cues from the Mass Effect franchise for certain elements, because they worked in Mass Effect and felt that it would make Dragon Age better.

So, it would be nice if they said changes instead of innovations. Or even clarified as innovations for Dragon Age. I mean, who's really getting taken in by all of it? It just makes nerds like me angry because it's blatantly misleading, if not outright BS...

[dheer]

...if you're  thoughtful and you understand your audience well and you spend a lot of  time listening to what they like and don't like, you take risks –  sometimes they pay out, sometimes they don't – but if you listen you can continue to refine and make the games better and better.

That's where the new DA team missed the mark. They took a big risk stealmlining things out to try to appeal to a different audience and it hasn't payed off. The game appealed to a much smaller market than it's predecessor.

I know they say it's finacially done well because of the reduced cost of development, but how do you grow your franchise when it sells less?

[the_one_54321]

They should stop using catch phrases. DAII managed to do a couple of things well. But it didn't really do anything new.

[Archaven]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Definition of innovation:

A new method, idea, product, etc.


The ideas implemented themselves may not be new to video games, but they are indeed new to Dragon Age. A flawed new idea is still a new idea.


Does that mean I agree with all of them? No, the dialogue wheel must die.

What irked me was when one of the devs said that it was unlikely they would get rid of it because they liked it. But most of the posters on here, if not all, have showed hatred and contempt for it.



I want my list back .

You can keep the tones, just put them off to the side of the listed responses. But dammit guys give me my list back please!

DAO and Witcher 2 have the dialogues list and it's button awesome for me. They should have retained that.

[TEWR]

mrcrusty wrote...

I remember in the lead up interviews and stuff, they said they were taking cues from the Mass Effect franchise for certain elements, because they worked in Mass Effect and felt that it would make Dragon Age better.

So, it would be nice if they said changes instead of innovations. Or even clarified as innovations for Dragon Age. I mean, who's really getting taken in by all of it? It just makes nerds like me angry because it's blatantly misleading, if not outright BS...

Don't ****** off the nerd robots guys!


Aside from the Dialogue wheel, which shouldn't have been implemented in Dragon Age no matter how much they try to rationalize and justify it, what else was taken from Mass Effect?


Note: I don't considered a VA'd protagonist to be among them.

[TEWR]

Archaven wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Definition of innovation:

A new method, idea, product, etc.


The ideas implemented themselves may not be new to video games, but they are indeed new to Dragon Age. A flawed new idea is still a new idea.


Does that mean I agree with all of them? No, the dialogue wheel must die.

What irked me was when one of the devs said that it was unlikely they would get rid of it because they liked it. But most of the posters on here, if not all, have showed hatred and contempt for it.



I want my list back .

You can keep the tones, just put them off to the side of the listed responses. But dammit guys give me my list back please!

DAO and Witcher 2 have the dialogues list and it's button awesome for me. They should have retained that.

I thought Witcher 2 had a dialogue wheel that occasionaly had Geralt say what was shown on the wheel? or is that The Witcher 1?

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Don't ****** off the nerd robots guys!

Aside from the Dialogue wheel, which shouldn't have been implemented in Dragon Age no matter how much they try to rationalize and justify it, what else was taken from Mass Effect?

Note: I don't considered a VA'd protagonist to be among them.

Well, the VA'd protagonist is part of that package. A pre-defined but malleable protagonist. With a paraphrasing dialog wheel, somewhat set backstory, a preset name and occupation, etc etc.

There's also the approach to companion customisation and interaction.

Also, Witcher 2 has a paraphrasing list, though from an aesthetic standpoint, it looks closer to the wheel.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 20 juin 2011 - 02:51 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

mrcrusty wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Don't ****** off the nerd robots guys!

Aside from the Dialogue wheel, which shouldn't have been implemented in Dragon Age no matter how much they try to rationalize and justify it, what else was taken from Mass Effect?

Note: I don't considered a VA'd protagonist to be among them.

Well, the VA'd protagonist is part of that package. A pre-defined but malleable protagonist. With a paraphrasing dialog wheel, somewhat set backstory, a preset name and occupation, etc etc.

There's also the approach to companion customisation and interaction.

Also, Witcher 2 has a paraphrasing list, though from an aesthetic standpoint, it looks closer to the wheel.

And the mails to the Normandy/Hawk Estate.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Don't ****** off the nerd robots guys!

Aside from the Dialogue wheel, which shouldn't have been implemented in Dragon Age no matter how much they try to rationalize and justify it, what else was taken from Mass Effect?

Note: I don't considered a VA'd protagonist to be among them.

Well, the VA'd protagonist is part of that package. A pre-defined but malleable protagonist. With a paraphrasing dialog wheel, somewhat set backstory, a preset name and occupation, etc etc.

There's also the approach to companion customisation and interaction.

Also, Witcher 2 has a paraphrasing list, though from an aesthetic standpoint, it looks closer to the wheel.

And the mails to the Normandy/Hawk Estate.

Forgot about that, thanks for that.



I like the concept, to be honest. There were quite a few "Nigerian prince" type letters. That was funny. I'm probably starting to get repetitive, but this is another area where I think Alpha Protocol had the right idea (emails).

[TEWR]

mrcrusty wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Don't ****** off the nerd robots guys!

Aside from the Dialogue wheel, which shouldn't have been implemented in Dragon Age no matter how much they try to rationalize and justify it, what else was taken from Mass Effect?

Note: I don't considered a VA'd protagonist to be among them.

Well, the VA'd protagonist is part of that package. A pre-defined but malleable protagonist. With a paraphrasing dialog wheel, somewhat set backstory, a preset name and occupation, etc etc.

There's also the approach to companion customisation and interaction.

Also, Witcher 2 has a paraphrasing list, though from an aesthetic standpoint, it looks closer to the wheel.

Well, since the series is about Thedas I see it like this: It means some DA games will be about a set protagonist and others will allow us to choose the Origin stories.


And really, the Origin stories did have a somewhat set backstory and preset name. You were a Cousland, an Aeducan, etc. People even referred to you as such, Gorim calling you "My lord Aeducan!".


Your backstory was always set. You could imagine how your character lived his life prior to you playing, and really you can do the same with Hawke and his life.


You also had a preset occupation in Origins. You were a Warden (well, not really an occupation, but you were nevertheless given a role as your life)

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Yes, but the Origins gave you a sense of freedom when concerning backstories, whereas Hawke's didn't. First time I remember actually playing through a backstory that you chose. Pretty innovative if you ask me. Lol.

Also, it brings me to another area which came from Mass Effect - human only protagonist.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 20 juin 2011 - 03:11 .

[Maconbar]

mrcrusty wrote...

Yes, but the Origins gave you a sense of freedom when concerning backstories, whereas Hawke's didn't. At least not as much. Also, it brings me to another area which came from Mass Effect - human only protagonist.

Maybe they stole that idea from the Witcher, clearly the first time an rpg had a human only protagonist.

[MorrigansLove]

I agree. The conversation wheel NEEDS TO DIE!

[TEWR]

mrcrusty wrote...

Yes, but the Origins gave you a sense of freedom when concerning backstories, whereas Hawke's didn't. At least not as much. Also, it brings me to another area which came from Mass Effect - human only protagonist.

I blame that on short dev time. They could've easily made some class specific origin stories had they been given the time


And they have said before that the story they wanted to tell for DA2 worked best for a human. In theory, yes. In practice, people say an elf or a dwarf would've worked too because there wasn't enough in the game to say otherwise.


But despite that, elves are despised by humans and a noble elf would not be tolerated or even allowed among Kirkwall. A dwarf has no connection to magic.

[Wulfram]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Well I think 'Awakening' is a perfect example of what you get when you play it safe and still manage to be unsatisfying.

Yet DA2 is very similar to Awakening.  Teleporting rogues, AoE two handed fighters, limited PC-Companion conversations, abrupt ending.

[alex90c]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Don't ****** off the nerd robots guys!

Aside from the Dialogue wheel, which shouldn't have been implemented in Dragon Age no matter how much they try to rationalize and justify it, what else was taken from Mass Effect?

Note: I don't considered a VA'd protagonist to be among them.

Well, the VA'd protagonist is part of that package. A pre-defined but malleable protagonist. With a paraphrasing dialog wheel, somewhat set backstory, a preset name and occupation, etc etc.

There's also the approach to companion customisation and interaction.

Also, Witcher 2 has a paraphrasing list, though from an aesthetic standpoint, it looks closer to the wheel.

Well, since the series is about Thedas I see it like this: It means some DA games will be about a set protagonist and others will allow us to choose the Origin stories.


And really, the Origin stories did have a somewhat set backstory and preset name. You were a Cousland, an Aeducan, etc. People even referred to you as such, Gorim calling you "My lord Aeducan!".


Your backstory was always set. You could imagine how your character lived his life prior to you playing, and really you can do the same with Hawke and his life.


You also had a preset occupation in Origins. You were a Warden (well, not really an occupation, but you were nevertheless given a role as your life)

While the backstory was preset, you as a player were definitely allowed to create your own character and personality from it. Take for example the City Elf origin, once you're conscripted you can pretty much go to everyone HA HA YOU SUCK, or there's that man and woman who give you some money where you can tell them you pretty much don't really care for them. I suppose another example would be telling Dairren in the HN origin that he sucks at fighting, or telling your nan to stop whining.

On the other hand, in DA2, it was a matter of Carver is at loggerheads with you no matter what, and Bethany and you are like BFFs no matter what, even though i'm sure some people who got DA2 may have not liked her at all.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

Yes, but the Origins gave you a sense of freedom when concerning backstories, whereas Hawke's didn't. At least not as much. Also, it brings me to another area which came from Mass Effect - human only protagonist.

I blame that on short dev time. They could've easily made some class specific origin stories had they been given the time

And they have said before that the story they wanted to tell for DA2 worked best for a human. In theory, yes. In practice, people say an elf or a dwarf would've worked too because there wasn't enough in the game to say otherwise.

But despite that, elves are despised by humans and a noble elf would not be tolerated or even allowed among Kirkwall. A dwarf has no connection to magic.

I do not disagree with any of that. But it does make it more like the Mass Effect series, which is what I was getting at.

Maconbar wrote...

Maybe they stole that idea from the Witcher, clearly the first time an rpg had a human only protagonist.

Thanks for the input, I'll keep it in mind next time I want a snarky response without adding anything to the discussion.

<inb4 haters do it too so it's okay for me to do it>

-----

For some balance and context:



http://kotaku.com/55...fects-footsteps

http://www.joystiq.c...ter-is-a-human/

http://www.rockpaper...f-dragon-age-2/

[Eski.Moe]

I love how some people act though. Decrying Bioware's constant use of the word 'innovation' (I was one of that group) and now that it's been expanded upon by Muzyka, people are still unhappy. Maybe it wasn't the best term to be used but you can see how it's being viewed. Relax, you know.

In any case, I'm really hoping that the next Dragon Age endeavour is being given the attention and dedication that it deserves. No more rushing and half-baking. I'm a bit cynical but it seems like they're hearing what we're saying despite deflections at some turns and now all that can be done is to wait.

[the_one_54321]

Eski.Moe wrote...
and now that it's been expanded upon by Muzyka, people are still unhappy.

He didn't expand on anything. This is all damage control and, more importantly, misdirection.

[ItsTheTruth]

Why couldn't they "innovate" Mass Effect instead of ruining the Dragon Age series?

[Chromie]

ItsTheTruth wrote...

Why couldn't they "innovate" Mass Effect instead of ruining the Dragon Age series?

It's not all Mass Effect's fault remember laidlaw saying they want to attract the COD crowd?