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#51
onelifecrisis

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Sith Reaper wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Sith Reaper wrote...

To further add on to this excellent thread:

The idea to make a human Reaper had not only the intentions of destroying humanity, but with the humans gone, it would be possible to send the new Reaper into the Citadel and open the relay to dark space. This clearly shows that the plan was still to keep it streamlined and efficient, until Shepard destroyed the human Reaper.

With that gone, they went to step three: Alpha Relay, and so on. Therefore, their plans really are prioritized in how efficient they are; as you said.


But the reapers arrive at the AR before the SM takes place.


I usually credit Arrival taking place after the Suicide Mission, as the ending shows a fleet of Reapers coming towards the galaxy, and clearly not in the Alpha Relay system. I feel Arrival was meant to be played afterwards, but was given the capibility to do it before for whatever reason.


I get you, but I really hate the idea that it's somehow my fault that Bioware's game doesn't make sense, because I'm "playing it wrong". There are whole sections of dialogue made just so that people can play Arrival before the SM...

#52
MDT1

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onelifecrisis wrote..

So they set off after the SM? That would make sense :) were it not for the fact that Arrival happens before the SM. :(


Source please, all I heard so far is that Arrival is the last thing that happend before Shepard trial on earth 2 month later

Okay... but I don't see how this helps explain what the human reaper was intended to do?


Perhaps to understand the species that ruined Sovereigns brilliant plan completly unexpected with sheer stubbornness?

#53
Jeth Prime

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this isnt my name wrote...

Jeth Prime wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...


The citadel could shut down relays completely for all we know, IFF or not.
On about the IFF I still think its stupid a reapers was left there, unnoticed. You would think they would cover thier tracks, they did with everything else, also no one else fond it and it didnt destroy its own IFF to prevent anyone using it. The further the ME games go on the less I liek the reapers. I prefered space cthulu too the current soylent green idiots. ME2 we learned little about them, how the hell are they going to be defeated in ME3 ? Without some new plot device or nerfing tem, its just annoying me, they build this amazing race and characters then drag them down I wish they had thought ahead with this, even if it means making them alot less epic.

I was a bit confused about the dead reaper too.... But I'm sure they may use some seemingly unimportant discovery in ME2 and maybe something from ME1 to help take them down.... We won't know untill we play through it. No need to call for plot holes and things that make no sence before we even know what happens....

I cant see anyy ending I would like. Reapers wont win, fans wont like that, it amy be an option, but I wont like it becuase it wouldnt be the true ending. So reapers either have some easily exploited weakness no one noticed, ever. Or ME3 we end up with some superweapon, which is stupid becuase the repaer tech is far more advanced and they have been at this much longer than current races. I see no logical ending, I just dont like it.

Who would've noticed a weakness? No one's spent anytime with a reeaper without being indoctrinated.... And the developers said that there can be a number of different endinds based on the choices you've made.... And what's a true ending, to a fictional story? :huh: In anycase, I'm looking forward to seeing how it can play out.

#54
Jeth Prime

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MDT1 wrote...


Perhaps to understand the species that ruined Sovereigns brilliant plan completly unexpected with sheer stubbornness?


That doesn't make sence. You don't learn anything by melting them down and making them into something else.

#55
onelifecrisis

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MDT1 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote..

So they set off after the SM? That would make sense :) were it not for the fact that Arrival happens before the SM. :(


Source please, all I heard so far is that Arrival is the last thing that happend before Shepard trial on earth 2 month later


My source is the game itself. Fire up a new game, play as far as Horizon, then voila - Arrival is good to go.

MDT1 wrote...

Perhaps to understand the species that ruined Sovereigns brilliant plan completly unexpected with sheer stubbornness?


That's an interesting take on it... yeah I guess that sorta works.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 20 juin 2011 - 04:56 .


#56
this isnt my name

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Calinstel wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

So you're saying it was the Reapers intention to completely waste 2 years, allowing preparations to be made? Announcing themselves via human abduction, alerting the entire galaxy there was more to Sovereign than just being a geth ship, instead of just stealthly entering the system? Good, overlord quality, plan.
Nice option, possibly correct even but it is not shown in the game and that is what matters.
ME2 should have been all about the Alpha Relay and not Cartoon Harby. It would have kept the story moving on the actual Reaper threat as well as made the story more believable. It's not that I think there is a plot hole but a lack of believable plot.

Agreed, the plot is just getting stupid. BW made these overpowered, machine gods who they now need to make stupid and illogical (going against thier character) so we can win.

Ok lets ignore the stuff so far, in ME3 the relay system is open (we see tuchunka, salarian home and earth), that means the ciadel is not under reaper control. Why are the reapers landing on earth ? Its stupid, the logical thing is all attack the citadel, stop the relays, then one at a time pick the galaxy apart. Not attack earth while everyone works out what to do. If the repers have to win fine, you shouldnt be sacraficing the story/atmosphere/characters just so the good guy wins.

Trying to make sense out of this is pointless, its clear the writers want you to win and as a result they dont want the repers to use logic and live up to what they are.

I too have a hard time fitting the original Reaper idea of exceptionally powerful, intelligent machines in ME1 into the mold we have now for ME2.  It would have made more sense if they burned some of themselves out reaching the galaxy than just sitting there.
I also agree with you, the Citadel IS the key.  If the Reapers had taken the Citadel, all traffice would stop.  But, enter a previous plot device.  The IFF.
Shepard then can get that item to all the different races, while at the same time, getting said races to join together.

The citadel could shut down relays completely for all we know, IFF or not.
On about the IFF I still think its stupid a reapers was left there, unnoticed. You would think they would cover thier tracks, they did with everything else, also no one else fond it and it didnt destroy its own IFF to prevent anyone using it. The further the ME games go on the less I liek the reapers. I prefered space cthulu too the current soylent green idiots. ME2 we learned little about them, how the hell are they going to be defeated in ME3 ? Without some new plot device or nerfing tem, its just annoying me, they build this amazing race and characters then drag them down I wish they had thought ahead with this, even if it means making them alot less epic.

Well, I was trying to not bring up the fact that the IFF should not have worked at all in ME2.  IFF's aboard military craft are changed daily.  If anything, the Relay should have just sent the Normandy to its death. 
And to the landingon Earth.  Why?  Just why?  Orbital bombardment to take out the largest cities first, decimating the human races will to fight and then land.  Not land and play soccer with buildings.
Also, about 2 weeks? are needed for indoctrination.  Only way Shepard can save Earth is if the Reapers forget to turn the devices on.

They land to abduct people for the cycle. As for indoctrination, why didnt they use the indoctrinated bartarians and cerbersu agents to assasinate Shep in the court room. Or just have the indoctrinated guys go to the citadel and start a fight there, then swoop in while c-sec are occupied/dead and cut the relays. They have lots of options here that they arent using. Then again we are on about the same race who in arrival knocked shepard out and didnt tie him up, twice iirc.

#57
Smeelia

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Calinstel wrote...

Thinking is what causes discussions such as this one.  Please do not accuse me of not thinking.
There was no evidence the Reapers were moving.  In fact, the only thing we saw were their lights turning on.  Of course, it could be they were possibly trying to sneak up on the galaxy, running dark, but really?
Shepard is at the galactic core yet he can communicate real time with old illusive.  Quantum Entanglement Device ring a bell?  Surely Cerberus is not the only people to ever develope that device.

No one was using Carriers until humanity came along and the other races had been around a long time before that.  The Reapers don't seem that creative either, they use much the same tactics and technology all the time and believe they've reached the pinnacle of technology by their mere existence.

As for what you see in cutscenes, that's not always a reliable indicator of the details of what is happening.  For example, the GARDIAN system on Horizon uses missiles instead of lasers but the scene still conveys the right message.  A continuity mistake isn't necessarily a plot hole, the story could still make sense even if the presentation is a bit off.

onelifecrisis wrote...

@OP

Thanks for posting this, even though I'd managed to piece all of that together from other threads (I'm one of the "you people" that you so nicely referred to Posted Image). However, your theory still leaves the whole human reaper bit unexplained. What was the point of it? Why build it, given that it's nowhere near completed when the reapers arrive at the AR?

They could be building it just for keeps, there's nothing wrong with having children and not already planning their career out in advance (although I suppose the Reapers kind of do anyway).

Calinstel wrote...

Well, I was trying to not bring up the fact that the IFF should not have worked at all in ME2.  IFF's aboard military craft are changed daily.  If anything, the Relay should have just sent the Normandy to its death. 
And to the landingon Earth.  Why?  Just why?  Orbital bombardment to take out the largest cities first, decimating the human races will to fight and then land.  Not land and play soccer with buildings.
Also, about 2 weeks? are needed for indoctrination.  Only way Shepard can save Earth is if the Reapers forget to turn the devices on.

It's possible that the device was more of a key really (though why they didn't just say "key" I'm not sure) and that they couldn't reliably change the signal.  Infact, it seems to simply be something that gives the relay the specific coordinates need to arrive in the "safe zone" so calling it an "IFF" is questionable at best.

Of course, there's still a question of why the Reapers don't have an actual IFF system that changes codes but then needing the coordinates is a pretty good defence and a changing code has the risk of failing to be updated to everyone using it (resulting in unneccessary loss of ships).

#58
Jeth Prime

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onelifecrisis wrote...


My source is the game itself. Fire up a new game, play as far as Horizon, then voila - Arrival is good to go.


Or you can wait untill after the SM and head for Arrival....

#59
MDT1

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Jeth Prime wrote...

MDT1 wrote...


Perhaps to understand the species that ruined Sovereigns brilliant plan completly unexpected with sheer stubbornness?


That doesn't make sence. You don't learn anything by melting them down and making them into something else.


Sovereign himself states he is a nation.
The whole ascension through destruction talking wouldn't make any sense if the reaper doesn't keep anything from the civilization its created from.
Also the reapers could just harvest cows with the same effect.

Modifié par MDT1, 20 juin 2011 - 05:01 .


#60
Keedmo

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it's my understanding that the point of the human-reaper was "reaper reproduction." Humanity earned it's spot to be among the reapers after this cycle is completed and the reapers succeed,

in regards to the ending of me2, that's up to interpretation. It's my opinion that the reapers were already on the move. When they powered up and started singing 9,999,999,999,999,999,999 bottles of beer on the wall? I believe it was the moment Sovereign exploded.

and now the reapers dont have access to the citadel. They're next move is to use the relay network and attack the greatest organic threats (humans, salarians, turians, asari, krogan) simultaniously. Reapers wont use the relay network to attack the citadel because as a previous poster stated organics will close the citadel the second they see the reaper fleet. The reapers aren't going to destroy their relay to and from darkspace

#61
Raiil

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this isnt my name wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

OP made a good post, and he should feel proud.

I think the Reapers coming to attack Earth does make at least some tactical sense. In the MEverse, humans are known for their (compared to others) unconventional warfare; although they have a small military compared to their general population, their military prowess is considered to be amount the best.

Or, as per the wiki:

The Alliance military is respected by the Citadel races for its novel tactics and technology (and not least for the fact the First Contact War had more turian than human casualties). Their strength lies in fire support, flexibility, and speed. The Council regards the Alliance as a "sleeping giant" as only 3% of humans volunteer for military service. They make up for low numbers with sophisticated technical support (VIs, drones, artillery, electronic warfare) and emphasis on mobility and individual initiative. Their military doctrine is not based on absorbing and dishing out heavy shocks like the turians and krogan. Rather, they bypass enemy strong points and launch deep into their rear, cutting supply lines and logistics, destroying headquarters and support units, leaving enemies to 'wither on the vine'.

On defense, the Alliance military lives by Sun Tzu's maxim, "He who tries to defend everything defends nothing."


If you're a machine of logic, the one thing you're going to want to do is get rid of the enemy who's known for irrational, yet somehow conclusively winning warfare. Humans are that enemy. Unpredictable, more powerful than it would be suggested by numbers, and a race that, even as a fairly new member of the galactic community, considered to be aggressive and out to prove something- you flush out the wild card as quickly as you can, because they'll be the thorn in your foot.

If reapers are logical they would divide and conquor, but thats just not happening. And your argument about humanity being a threat dosent work well when we find the aliance was wiped out already. The real threat to them is shepard. And they seem to have ignored him, the normandy got off earth, and they didnt close the relays to trap him. Thier current plan just isnt logical, im not a giant godlike machine, and even I know its stupid. Thier actions go against thier character.


Divide and conquer works best when there is one large, interlocked system. There isn't. The galactic community is compromised of numerous different political and social systems that have a decentralised point in the Citadel and in the nebulous 'galactic' civilisation theme. All of these communities work independantly; the Reapers can't take out one and take them out all out.

The Alliance still exists. Crippled, yes, but it hasn't been decimated. It's one group of many that's about to go poke the Reapers in the eye. That's one thing working against our wannabe overlords; they're fighting more than one war at a time.

#62
this isnt my name

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Jeth Prime wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...

Jeth Prime wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...


The citadel could shut down relays completely for all we know, IFF or not.
On about the IFF I still think its stupid a reapers was left there, unnoticed. You would think they would cover thier tracks, they did with everything else, also no one else fond it and it didnt destroy its own IFF to prevent anyone using it. The further the ME games go on the less I liek the reapers. I prefered space cthulu too the current soylent green idiots. ME2 we learned little about them, how the hell are they going to be defeated in ME3 ? Without some new plot device or nerfing tem, its just annoying me, they build this amazing race and characters then drag them down I wish they had thought ahead with this, even if it means making them alot less epic.

I was a bit confused about the dead reaper too.... But I'm sure they may use some seemingly unimportant discovery in ME2 and maybe something from ME1 to help take them down.... We won't know untill we play through it. No need to call for plot holes and things that make no sence before we even know what happens....

I cant see anyy ending I would like. Reapers wont win, fans wont like that, it amy be an option, but I wont like it becuase it wouldnt be the true ending. So reapers either have some easily exploited weakness no one noticed, ever. Or ME3 we end up with some superweapon, which is stupid becuase the repaer tech is far more advanced and they have been at this much longer than current races. I see no logical ending, I just dont like it.

Who would've noticed a weakness? No one's spent anytime with a reeaper without being indoctrinated.... And the developers said that there can be a number of different endinds based on the choices you've made.... And what's a true ending, to a fictional story? :huh: In anycase, I'm looking forward to seeing how it can play out.

Thats the point, as far as we know the reapers are invincible, it took the entire citadel fleet and the 5th fleet to take down 1 reaper. Here we have hundred , if not thousands. Aliance is wiped out, Turians are getting owned, so are Krogan/Salarian it seems and Bartarians are gone. That leaves quarians and geth really, not much, rachni for some people So no weakness, yet we will win. Somehow... its stupid.

By true ending I mean a canon ending.

#63
Jeth Prime

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MDT1 wrote...

Jeth Prime wrote...

MDT1 wrote...


Perhaps to understand the species that ruined Sovereigns brilliant plan completly unexpected with sheer stubbornness?


That doesn't make sence. You don't learn anything by melting them down and making them into something else.


Sovereign himself states he is a nation.
The whole ascension through destruction talking wouldn't make any sense if the reaper doesn't keep anything from the civilization its created from.
Also the reapers could just harvest cows with the same effect.

Not realy. The tried to turn the protheans in to a reaper, but that failed.... If they wanted to learn of humans, they had of them to just study. No new reaper needed. It seems to me that part of the cycle is making new reapers, and what better race to use than the one with the guy who eats reapers for breakfast?

#64
MadCat221

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There is also Reaper hubris at work too. You are weakest when you think yourself invincible, for you aren't bothering to find or guard your weaknesses.

#65
this isnt my name

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Valentia X wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

OP made a good post, and he should feel proud.

I think the Reapers coming to attack Earth does make at least some tactical sense. In the MEverse, humans are known for their (compared to others) unconventional warfare; although they have a small military compared to their general population, their military prowess is considered to be amount the best.

Or, as per the wiki:

The Alliance military is respected by the Citadel races for its novel tactics and technology (and not least for the fact the First Contact War had more turian than human casualties). Their strength lies in fire support, flexibility, and speed. The Council regards the Alliance as a "sleeping giant" as only 3% of humans volunteer for military service. They make up for low numbers with sophisticated technical support (VIs, drones, artillery, electronic warfare) and emphasis on mobility and individual initiative. Their military doctrine is not based on absorbing and dishing out heavy shocks like the turians and krogan. Rather, they bypass enemy strong points and launch deep into their rear, cutting supply lines and logistics, destroying headquarters and support units, leaving enemies to 'wither on the vine'.

On defense, the Alliance military lives by Sun Tzu's maxim, "He who tries to defend everything defends nothing."


If you're a machine of logic, the one thing you're going to want to do is get rid of the enemy who's known for irrational, yet somehow conclusively winning warfare. Humans are that enemy. Unpredictable, more powerful than it would be suggested by numbers, and a race that, even as a fairly new member of the galactic community, considered to be aggressive and out to prove something- you flush out the wild card as quickly as you can, because they'll be the thorn in your foot.

If reapers are logical they would divide and conquor, but thats just not happening. And your argument about humanity being a threat dosent work well when we find the aliance was wiped out already. The real threat to them is shepard. And they seem to have ignored him, the normandy got off earth, and they didnt close the relays to trap him. Thier current plan just isnt logical, im not a giant godlike machine, and even I know its stupid. Thier actions go against thier character.


Divide and conquer works best when there is one large, interlocked system. There isn't. The galactic community is compromised of numerous different political and social systems that have a decentralised point in the Citadel and in the nebulous 'galactic' civilisation theme. All of these communities work independantly; the Reapers can't take out one and take them out all out.

The Alliance still exists. Crippled, yes, but it hasn't been decimated. It's one group of many that's about to go poke the Reapers in the eye. That's one thing working against our wannabe overlords; they're fighting more than one war at a time.





Would you rather fight several armies at once or one at a time ? I know which one I would pick.
You divide them, by keeping them seperate, quarians stuck in one place, salarians another, turians another, etc.

#66
Jeth Prime

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this isnt my name wrote...

Thats the point, as far as we know the reapers are invincible, it took the entire citadel fleet and the 5th fleet to take down 1 reaper. Here we have hundred , if not thousands. Aliance is wiped out, Turians are getting owned, so are Krogan/Salarian it seems and Bartarians are gone. That leaves quarians and geth really, not much, rachni for some people So no weakness, yet we will win. Somehow... its stupid.

By true ending I mean a canon ending.

The reapers are the ones who say they've no weakness' them selves. No one else knows much of anything about them at this point. Not even Shepard, the reaper killer. Their weakness' haven't been put to the test very often either, as they're plan always seemed to go about accordingly. This time, not so much....

#67
Sith Reaper

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Keedmo wrote...

it's my understanding that the point of the human-reaper was "reaper reproduction." Humanity earned it's spot to be among the reapers after this cycle is completed and the reapers succeed,

in regards to the ending of me2, that's up to interpretation. It's my opinion that the reapers were already on the move. When they powered up and started singing 9,999,999,999,999,999,999 bottles of beer on the wall? I believe it was the moment Sovereign exploded.

and now the reapers dont have access to the citadel. They're next move is to use the relay network and attack the greatest organic threats (humans, salarians, turians, asari, krogan) simultaniously. Reapers wont use the relay network to attack the citadel because as a previous poster stated organics will close the citadel the second they see the reaper fleet. The reapers aren't going to destroy their relay to and from darkspace


Yes, I feel that is interpretation. It is possible the human Reaper plan was designed to rid the galaxy of humans before the invasion, and they were already on the move; or the human Reaper could have been used as a second Sovereign - opening the Citadel relay for the Reapers in dark space, and once it was destroyed, then they began to move. We need to hear from a writer one of these days.

#68
Vengeful Nature

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Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

My major complaint is when people misunderstand what a plothole is. A character who does something stupid is not a plothole. Something unexplained is not a plothole. Something unlikely is not a plothole.


A plothole is any degree of those things. If a character says or does something extremely unlikely (either generally or in regards to their character), that is a plothole. Something unexplainable is a plot hole. Something very unlikely to the point of being impossible is a plot hole.

The Reapers misuse of several assets is a plothole. Where were the Collectors and their apparently powerful cruiser in ME1? Why do they need a new Reaper (made out of that ridiculous human casserole) when they are weeks away and could use the Alpha Relay to quickly capture the Citadel (I'm sure the entire combined mental might of the Reapers can undo whatever the Protheans did)?

One thing people need to remember is this: It took an entire fleet to destroy Sovereign, at devastating cost. A entire fleet of these things is going to breeze through all known navies like a knife through cottage cheese. There are at least hundreds of Reapers, very likely much more. People saying that it's more efficient to act from behind the scenes are forgetting the massive power of each individual Reaper, let along an armada of them.

Jeth Prime wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...

The citadel could shut down relays completely for all we know, IFF or not.
On
about the IFF I still think its stupid a reapers was left there,
unnoticed. You would think they would cover thier tracks (1), they did with
everything else, also no one else fond it and it didnt destroy its own
IFF to prevent anyone using it. The further the ME games go on the less I
liek the reapers. I prefered space cthulu too the current soylent green
idiots. ME2 we learned little about them, how the hell are they going
to be defeated in ME3 ? (2)
Without some new plot device or nerfing tem, its
just annoying me, they build this amazing race and characters then drag
them down I wish they had thought ahead with this, even if it means
making them alot less epic.


I was a bit confused about
the dead reaper too.... But I'm sure they may use some seemingly
unimportant discovery in ME2 and maybe something from ME1 to help take
them down (3)
.... We won't know untill we play through it. No need to call
for plot holes and things that make no sence before we even know what
happens....


(1) Exactly. The Reapers develop sudden cases of idiocy whenever the plot demands them to. This Reaper is even still active, albiet at minimal capacity. Even if the Reapers missed it after that cycle, it would certainly be noticed the next time around.

(2) Because they aren't that powerful anymore. The plot demands them to be weaker, even though we have the example of Sovereign, who decimated an entire fleet singlehanded. Since we are apparently avoiding a deus ex machine in ME3 (says the devs), the only solution is to substantially nerf the Reapers' power.

(3) That's not the point. The point is that the derelict Reaper was there in the first place, when it shouldn't have been. The consequences of the discovery don't matter, the fact that it was there in the first place does.

#69
Smeelia

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this isnt my name wrote...

Thats the point, as far as we know the reapers are invincible, it took the entire citadel fleet and the 5th fleet to take down 1 reaper. Here we have hundred , if not thousands. Aliance is wiped out, Turians are getting owned, so are Krogan/Salarian it seems and Bartarians are gone. That leaves quarians and geth really, not much, rachni for some people So no weakness, yet we will win. Somehow... its stupid.

By true ending I mean a canon ending.

We don't have anything like evidence that the Reapers are invincible, they may say so and are feared as such but it's pretty clear they're not.  We have seen one of them killed and it only did so much damage, remember the Geth fleet it had along with it.  It also didn't take anything like an impossible amount of damage to destroy (there's the shield issue but we don't know the true details of that) since it wasn't shot before entering the Citadel and died a little while after taking a barrage (from mostly comparitively smaller ships, that are now capable of equipping significantly more powerful weapons as of ME2).

There's so much we don't know that just filling in some blanks will turn what some people consider stupid into something that makes sense (until we get a final answer though we can't say for sure we will win or how).

Sith Reaper wrote...

I usually credit Arrival taking place after the Suicide Mission, as the ending shows a fleet of Reapers coming towards the galaxy's edge, and clearly not in the Alpha Relay system. I feel Arrival was meant to be played afterwards, but was given the capibility to do it before for whatever reason.


onelifecrisis wrote...

I get you, but I really hate the idea that it's somehow my fault that Bioware's game doesn't make sense, because I'm "playing it wrong". There are whole sections of dialogue made just so that people can play Arrival before the SM...

You could always consider the scene at the end of the Suicide Mission to be a kind of "flashback".

Still, I do think the whole "Arrival" business could have been handled better but there were possibly technical reasons they couldn't put it at the end of the game.

Modifié par Smeelia, 20 juin 2011 - 05:12 .


#70
MDT1

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Jeth Prime wrote...

MDT1 wrote...

Jeth Prime wrote...

MDT1 wrote...


Perhaps to understand the species that ruined Sovereigns brilliant plan completly unexpected with sheer stubbornness?


That doesn't make sence. You don't learn anything by melting them down and making them into something else.


Sovereign himself states he is a nation.
The whole ascension through destruction talking wouldn't make any sense if the reaper doesn't keep anything from the civilization its created from.
Also the reapers could just harvest cows with the same effect.

Not realy. The tried to turn the protheans in to a reaper, but that failed.... If they wanted to learn of humans, they had of them to just study. No new reaper needed. It seems to me that part of the cycle is making new reapers, and what better race to use than the one with the guy who eats reapers for breakfast?


Do we really know they failed to create a Prothean reaper or was this just mordins theory (cant remember)?
Also if genetcis is any benchmark, if they are capable of making a reaper out of us, the should be able to harvest cows too.
And if they really only take worthy races its also an argument that a reaper gets characteristics from the people hes made from.
And what is more effective, to study some humans or having thousands of human intellects linked together that help you willingly?
Sovereign had over a century to study humans and still failed because he underestimated them.

#71
Gterror

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Obviously Reapers are too powerful to take on with brute firepower,so Shepard finds a weakness or finds some kind of weapons to take out Reapers(reference too Klendagons Great Rift).Problem solved
In the worst case scenario maybe they gonna sacrifice star systems to destroy Reapers but that is unlikely to happen.

#72
Sith Reaper

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MDT1 wrote...

Jeth Prime wrote...

MDT1 wrote...


Perhaps to understand the species that ruined Sovereigns brilliant plan completly unexpected with sheer stubbornness?


That doesn't make sence. You don't learn anything by melting them down and making them into something else.


Sovereign himself states he is a nation.
The whole ascension through destruction talking wouldn't make any sense if the reaper doesn't keep anything from the civilization its created from.
Also the reapers could just harvest cows with the same effect.


Precisely. Harbinger states many times in the game to your party members that they cannot be 'assimilated' due to various deficiencies; if Tali is in your squad, Harbinger says that Quarian immune systems are too weak, and so on. When it comes to humans, he states their agressiveness can be harnessed. I believe finding the right species to produce a Reaper is part of the plan as well.

#73
Eurhetemec

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this isnt my name wrote...

 they didnt close the relays to trap him.


They CAN'T close the relays to trap him. The Normandy (and presumably most Council vessels, now) has the Reaper IFF. This is why they're not hammering for the Citadel at a zillion miles any hour, because if they press the "no relays for the non-Reapers" button, people will just be able to override it.

#74
KainrycKarr

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onelifecrisis wrote...

@OP

Thanks for posting this, even though I'd managed to piece all of that together from other threads (I'm one of the "you people" that you so nicely referred to :P). However, your theory still leaves the whole human reaper bit unexplained. What was the point of it? Why build it, given that it's nowhere near completed when the reapers arrive at the AR?


Humanity and Shepard are a threat. To the reapers, they have two options. Neutralize it, or utilize it.

The human reaper was their idea of utilize the threat to their own purposes, and doing so in relative secret, allowing them to neutralize the same threat before having to deal with it in tandem with the rest of the galaxy.

#75
Sith Reaper

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MDT1 wrote...

Jeth Prime wrote...

MDT1 wrote...

Jeth Prime wrote...

MDT1 wrote...


Perhaps to understand the species that ruined Sovereigns brilliant plan completly unexpected with sheer stubbornness?


That doesn't make sence. You don't learn anything by melting them down and making them into something else.


Sovereign himself states he is a nation.
The whole ascension through destruction talking wouldn't make any sense if the reaper doesn't keep anything from the civilization its created from.
Also the reapers could just harvest cows with the same effect.

Not realy. The tried to turn the protheans in to a reaper, but that failed.... If they wanted to learn of humans, they had of them to just study. No new reaper needed. It seems to me that part of the cycle is making new reapers, and what better race to use than the one with the guy who eats reapers for breakfast?


Do we really know they failed to create a Prothean reaper or was this just mordins theory (cant remember)?
Also if genetcis is any benchmark, if they are capable of making a reaper out of us, the should be able to harvest cows too.
And if they really only take worthy races its also an argument that a reaper gets characteristics from the people hes made from.
And what is more effective, to study some humans or having thousands of human intellects linked together that help you willingly?
Sovereign had over a century to study humans and still failed because he underestimated them.


It was EDI's theory that the Collectors were created after the Prothean's were unable to make a Reaper, which we can assume is true as she also 'predicts' most of the specifics in making the human Reaper.