60 réponses à ce sujet

[Massadonious1]

I have a hard time believing this argument has ever been about "lore"

You either hate the direction that ME2 took, or you miss being able to exploit the mechanic you are defending with your Spectre X weapons and mods that basically let you strap a paperweight and some duct tape to your trigger.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 20 juin 2011 - 08:37 .

[Skirata129]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Counter-question: Will people stop ****ing about the lore and just play the damn game?

lore can make or break a game. without it you lose interest after a while. being able to focus on either, lore, gameplay or both gives you a lot more playing time than just one or the other.

[Someone With Mass]

Fixers0 wrote...

Counter-Counter-question: How do you expect people to take a game seriously when its content contradict with the codex and previous works that was doen by the same writers?

Because some people are able to understand and accept that there's a difference between gameplay mechanics and lore/codex mechanics?

Because there are a lot of things that breaks the lore other than the ammo system.

For example: You are breaking the lore every single time you use Charge as a Vanguard.

[ItsFreakinJesus]

Gameplay > Lore

Leave the lore in cutscenes and codex entries. Gameplay is supposed to look visually pleasing and fun. Seeing bullet trails is visually pleasing, therefore it falls within the gameplay > lore realm.

[Clonedzero]

i cant think of a single sci-fi universe where they arent constantly breaking their own lore.

go ahead name one and if im familiar at all with it ill let you know a bunch of inconsistencies

[Jeth Prime]

I prefer it as it is in Mass Effect 2....

[dreman9999]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Counter-Counter-question: How do you expect people to take a game seriously when its content contradict with the codex and previous works that was doen by the same writers?

Because some people are able to understand and accept that there's a difference between gameplay mechanics and lore/codex mechanics?

Because there are a lot of things that breaks the lore other than the ammo system.

For example: You are breaking the lore every single time you use Charge as a Vanguard.

Nope.....You just changing your own mass and  moving it across the field.....The vanguard charge is just a mass effect.....
And if you want to argue lore well, they change the gun because of the geth war. The geth is a pure tech race, so every geth can easaly have sabatage.
That would mean with gun that can be turned off by you enemy can be turn of even more during any fight with the Geth...... And once they turn off the guns, the Geth use hord tactics.....
So I ask again....Why do you want a gun that can esaily be turn off for long periods of time?

[Skirata129]

let's see... sci fi franchise. STAR WARS!

[Someone With Mass]

dreman9999 wrote...
Nope.....You just changing your own mass and  moving it across the field.....The vanguard charge is just a mass effect.....

Phasing through objects is not something mass effect fields can make you do.

[Admoniter]

To all those gameplay > lore folks, my problem is that there exists an easy solution that is still visually pleasing and fun so that gameplay = lore and there doesn't have to be a disconnect. The issue of weapons being hitscan yet having tracers is not a lore issue anyways it is a gameplay issue. Let me break it down for you, weapons in ME2 are hit scan which means that tracers are uneeded because the shots do not have travel time. What is so bad about trails anyways they don't look any better or worse. So I don't exactly see the problem with changing this is the lore folks would be happy and the gameplay would get an actual system that isn't so mind numbingly counter intuitive it's quite literally a win win.

As for the TC issue this is another one that doesn't require a lore/gameplay segregation. The animation of Shepard ejecting his heat sink is already there all that needs to change is the UI. Simply make it so that instead of total shots remaining you have a total TC left. Problem solved you can no longer do stuff like load in a half empty TC or combine capacities, but the system itself remains intact. Once again what is the problem lore/logic is kept intact as is gameplay. Unless you think the reloading system of dropping the clip when you reload is bad gameplay. So once again I don't see why there would be a problem with these changes, perhaps you can enlighten me?

Modifié par Admoniter, 20 juin 2011 - 08:50 .

[candidate88766]

One of the devs was commenting in a thread like this in the ME2 forum that what you see in game are, in effect, tracers. The 'bullets' or shots obey the established canon and impact instantly (or at least appear to as they travel too fast for travel time to be noticeable over the distances fought over in-game). Try it in ME2 - the shots really do impact instantly, in a hit-scan manner. You'll also notice in game that not every shot is visible, only every few shots can be seen and the dev said these are intentional and designed as tracers so the player and characters can see where they are shooting. 

Seriously, try it when you next play ME2: the shots appear to impact instantly due to their velocity and every few shots you'll see a tracer, but not on every shot. What you're seeing is not the firing pattern.

The breach of lore mentioned in the OP is not a breach of lore.

Modifié par candidate88766, 20 juin 2011 - 09:05 .

[Warkupo]

The weapon system in ME2 is already lore based. They updated the lore. They are allowed to do that with their IP.

I feel like the only person who actually reads the codex sometimes.

Modifié par Warkupo, 20 juin 2011 - 09:08 .

[Durgon Ironfist]

Fixers0 wrote...

Shepard Lives wrote...

I can understand your concern, but personally I don't really care.

While it seems very minor, there are a lot of small things like this introduced in Mass Effect 2 that cheapen the overal credibility of the Mass Effect Universe as if it tries to fall in line with the more generic Sci-Fi. 

I can understand your concern, but personally I don't really care.

[CannonO]

I just wish the firing didn't resemble bullets more than the original system. I thought the shots looked and sounded great in the first one.

[Aimi]

Warkupo wrote...

The weapon system in ME2 is already lore based. They updated the lore. They are allowed to do that with their IP.

I feel like the only person who actually reads the codex sometimes.

I know how you feel.  For instance, it seems like almost nobody who complains about thermal clips or global cooldown knows that biotics violate their own lore, and always have.  You're not supposed to be able to use biotics that many times in a single fight, and you're supposed to have to go through energy drinks and PowerBars like mad after a fight.

Hell, the only time this was brought in during the first game was when you were fighting Matriarch Benezia so you could have a boss-battle mechanic, and it was terrible for immersion - why the hell is an asari matriarch getting tired after opening a few doors and using Stasis a couple of times, while you can spam your way to victory with Throw, Warp, Lift, and Singularity?  Because lore applied to her, but not to Shep & Co...

[Cainne Chapel]

CannonLars wrote...

I just wish the firing didn't resemble bullets more than the original system. I thought the shots looked and sounded great in the first one.

Tell that to my arm breaking Widow Sniper Rifle! Now there's a gun with a powerful shooting sound...a lot better than those sissy Geth Rifles!

[TexasToast712]

Its Bioware's game, if they want all their guns to shoot pink pony tails powered by a fuel cell that runs on tears then they will. ME2 > ME1. The guns look and sound awesome, thats all that matters.

[CannonO]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

I just wish the firing didn't resemble bullets more than the original system. I thought the shots looked and sounded great in the first one.

Tell that to my arm breaking Widow Sniper Rifle! Now there's a gun with a powerful shooting sound...a lot better than those sissy Geth Rifles!

Powerful sounds can exist without eliminating Mass Effect 1's established styles, thank you.

That gun is my beast of choice though.

[TexasToast712]

Admoniter wrote...
I play a lot of shooters.

That doesnt make you a authority on weapons systems. Come back when you have actual experience and know what you are talking about.

[Guns]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Counter-question: Will people stop ****ing about the lore and just play the damn game?

What the hell is the point of a playing an rpg if the lore isn't consistent?

[CannonO]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Counter-question: Will people stop ****ing about the lore and just play the damn game?

Gee whiz, your Don't-care attitude really changes the mind of everyone who does care about the lore laid out in ME1 and its consistency going forward.

Maybe take the time to realize that you not caring doesn't comfort those who wish to express their care. I love ME1 and the style of shooting, ME2 felt far more generic shooter-like to me.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Just ignore it. In my opinion the thermal clips are superior for gameplay reasons. If you look too much into the weapons they don't make sense regardless of the cooling method. We're talking about guns with an internal mechanism that can cut a block of steel or tungsten into projectiles that are stable in flight, and then fire those, within milliseconds of the operator pulling the trigger. An ammo block that never seems to run out and can be given frangible, incendiary, explosive, or cryogenic properties.

Enjoy the guns for the coolness factor, and don't question them or they will all break and you'll have to fight the reapers with a knife.

To add, I wouldn't mind if the guns had higher velocities again, meaning you need to lead the target less. Yet according to the lore these projectiles are moving at speeds in the high hypersonic range, so the time of flight would be non-existent for all practical purposes. Yet it would be better to have a balance between what we see in ME1 and ME2 for gameplay related reasons.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 20 juin 2011 - 10:26 .

[Admoniter]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Admoniter wrote...
I play a lot of shooters.

That doesnt make you a authority on weapons systems. Come back when you have actual experience and know what you are talking about.

Never claimed that I did. All I stated was that I find that having htiscan weapons use tracers is counter intuitive. What I was getting at with the I have played a lot of shooters comment is that I have never seen another system that uses hitscan weapons with tracers that have visible travel time and for good reason. Besides I don't need to be an authority on anything for this sort of thing all I'm saying is that the current design doesn't make a lick of sense even from a gameplay perspective because it is needlessly confusing. Ditching the tracers and adding trails would solve this entire problem and I doubt it would upset anybody.

The ad hominem was unneccesary btw if you don't like my posistion you can simply disagree. Instead of going off on some tangent about authority (which I never claimed to have) when all the experience I need on this matter is to play the damn game.

Modifié par Admoniter, 21 juin 2011 - 01:16 .

[crimzontearz]

the real question is

WTF is the point of creating an awesome lore if then you end up going out of your way to demolish it in favor of gameplay when it was not even necessary?

[HTTP 404]

if weapons were to be "consistent" again, wouldn't that make it more inconsistent?

Modifié par HTTP 404, 21 juin 2011 - 01:25 .