397 réponses à ce sujet

[Praetor Knight]

Bluko wrote...

I'm not against it. Heck I'd be thrilled if they actually did something like this, cause then it really would add tension to fights to know that my ammo actually was finite. And on the upside I wouldn't have to worry about throwing an enemy off a cliff or turning them into dust so I can simply pick-up a clip.

I mean if Health can regenerate why can't ammo?

Sadly I don't have much hope for Bioware trying to do things "different". As I'm pretty sure this biggest factor for including Thermal Clips in the first place was to make the game more accessible.

(Odd thing is most people here don't want Multiplayer, but at the same time fail to realize that a conventional ammo system just makes it that much more likely that they will do such a thing to gain that bigger "audience". Not that it couldn't be done with a different system, it's just we're heading down a clear path. The more the gameplay resembles other conventional shooter the more likely it is to feature the same "modes" too.)

Maybe a dev can give us a tease on this sort of combat aspect? It seems a minor enough feature to let us know about and I hope to believe that such a tweak would have little bearing on other combat features, like the 7 or 8 cover movements or what new powers and evolutions might be in the final product.
(I'm looking forward to the new cover animations ).

And I hope multiplayer is saved for ME4 and beyond, even though I'm not a fan of multiplayer myself, and would rather not have it at all anyway in my Mass Effect experience.

[Someone With Mass]

Why even make it so complicated when it can be so easy? Clips = No BS about waiting for cooldown.

That's enough for me.

[slimgrin]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Why even make it so complicated when it can be so easy? Clips = No BS about waiting for cooldown.

That's enough for me.

I thought cooldown was supposed to discourage shooting till overheat. Short controlled bursts.

They included clips to make gameplay feel like popular shooters.

Modifié par slimgrin, 22 juin 2011 - 01:01 .

[Dave of Canada]

Clips made fights (for me) more fun.

Fun trumps all.

[marshalleck]

ME3's mod system is the compromise between ME1 & 2 that many people thought would not only be reasonable, but enjoyable. So I'll say stick with the direction they're going now.

[The Spamming Troll]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

B/c standing there, holding down the trigger forever with 2 heat reducing upgrades and murdering everything in sight took so much more thinking. LOL ... riiiight.

who is advocating for that?

marshalleck wrote...

ME3's mod system is the compromise
between ME1 & 2 that many people thought would not only be
reasonable, but enjoyable. So I'll say stick with the direction they're
going now.

except that ME3s mods look nothing like ME1s mods.

id rather have bioware gearing for the ME1 fans, then the fans that have never played ME and arent familirar with a simple overheat feature. ive been playing an followingthis game since like 2007. im not gonig to be playing this game for the first time march 6th 2012, and i hope when its all sadi and done that means something more.

playing ME2 with TCs is like playing gears of war without the reload mechanism. it just doesnt feel exactly right. its just unfortunate for me that i enjoyed it and can see more potential in it.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 22 juin 2011 - 01:17 .

[Someone With Mass]

slimgrin wrote...

I thought cooldown was supposed to discourage shooting till overheat. Short controlled bursts.

They included clips to make gameplay feel like popular shooters.

Short controlled burst? I can get that with the Vindicator. I like going full auto on people sometimes, though.

The only differences between the guns in ME1 were their stats, names, shapes and colors. Other than that, they were exactly the same.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

B/c standing there, holding down the trigger forever with 2 heat reducing upgrades and murdering everything in sight took so much more thinking. LOL ... riiiight.

who is advocating for that?

That's what the combat in ME1 was... throw to frictionless materials (or w/e they were called) into your gun and hold down the trigger endlessly... overheating was a terrible mechanic.

The OP kept saying... "dumbed down" .... to which I said that ME1's combat didn't take that much thinking either.

[Praetor Knight]

slimgrin wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Why even make it so complicated when it can be so easy? Clips = No BS about waiting for cooldown.

That's enough for me.

I thought cooldown was supposed to discourage shooting till overheat. Short controlled bursts.

They included clips to make gameplay feel like popular shooters.

And Lore-wise another difference is that in ME1 the entire weapon would heat up, and if overheated it would need to be vented. With the possibility of malfunction (not shown in ME1 gameplay though).

Then Thermal Clips are used to draw that heat so you just eject and move on. But apparently there has been another gameplay pet peeve for many where there is a sudden limit to shots you can fire, with improved balance for combat.

And Thermal Clips were a last minute edition to ME2: http://social.biowar...2912/15#5691879

Edit: Darn, link did not link again.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 22 juin 2011 - 01:19 .

[The Spamming Troll]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

B/c standing there, holding down the trigger forever with 2 heat reducing upgrades and murdering everything in sight took so much more thinking. LOL ... riiiight.

who is advocating for that?

That's what the combat in ME1 was... throw to frictionless materials (or w/e they were called) into your gun and hold down the trigger endlessly... overheating was a terrible mechanic.

The OP kept saying... "dumbed down" .... to which I said that ME1's combat didn't take that much thinking either.

i know, but nobody is saying they want to stand there, hold down the trigger forever with 2 heat reducing upgrades and murder everything in sight.

ive never understood the argument that the game became dumb because you modded it that way. would removing frictionless materials remove your dislike of overheating guns?

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 22 juin 2011 - 01:25 .

[Commander Shep4rd]

I don´t really see the problem with infinite shooting, it doesn¨t make you enter "God mode" try Insanity/hardcore try to stay in one place shooting like a adman and see what happens.

[Commander Shep4rd]

I think they should apply the Halo cooldown system,make a "reload" option to make the weapon cooldown faster but it wouldnt work when the weapon overheats.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Commander Shep4rd wrote...

I think they should apply the Halo cooldown system,make a "reload" option to make the weapon cooldown faster but it wouldnt work when the weapon overheats.

This. Exactly.

[marshalleck]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

id rather have bioware gearing for the ME1 fans, then the fans that have never played ME and arent familirar with a simple overheat feature.

Ah, so you mean they should be "gearing" for me then. I agree. ME3 weapon mods it is!

[marshalleck]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

And Thermal Clips were a last minute edition to ME2: http://social.biowar...2912/15#5691879

Edit: Darn, link did not link again.

I think you're misunderstanding what you're reading there. 

"The heat sink system we shipped with was one of the most extensively tested systems, and it produced the best combat gameplay. "

That would be the thermal clips. The prototype she's talking about are some extraneous settings uncovered in the coalesced.ini, which are normally inactive unless modded. The thermal clips as they are implemented in ME2 are not a "last minute edition" (sic)

Modifié par marshalleck, 22 juin 2011 - 01:46 .

[Praetor Knight]

marshalleck wrote...

I think you're misunderstanding what you're reading there. 

"The heat sink system we shipped with was one of the most extensively tested systems, and it produced the best combat gameplay. "

That would be the thermal clips. The prototype she's talking about are some extraneous settings uncovered in the coalesced.ini, which are normally inactive unless modded. The thermal clips as they are implemented in ME2 are not a "last minute edition" (sic)

That post was relating to another prototype, that was an artifact that was disabled but still accessible.

This is one of the places where I first learned of the disabled prototype's existence: http://social.biowar...3/index/1528869

But, I remember reading somewhere that Thermal Clips were introduced late. And, I could easily have missed something if it's not clear in Christina's original post.

I need to do some googling.

Edit: Ok it was from this article: http://www.gamesrada...051114473989090

“One of the most controversial changes to the combat was probably how ammo works,” Hudson goes on. “It was something that wasn’t part of the main game design but instead was implemented as a test by a gameplay programmer. The Lead Designer was against the idea, but tested the ‘ammo’ version of the game for several weeks in total secrecy before concluding that it made a huge improvement to the tension and pacing of combat. Then when he pitched it to me, I was against it until I played it for a while and was convinced as well. Some of the best ideas in ME2 happened that way, where a passionate member of the team took their own time to try something they thought would be great, and it eventually passed harsh scrutiny to become part of the experience.”

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 22 juin 2011 - 02:03 .

[Haventh]

I felt that made ME 1s combat so boring was the overheating. Also i think overheating is very bad from the technical perspective, overheating equipment with an technical/electronic equipment can be damaging in the long run.

Besides, i never had any problems with little ammo in ME 2, maybe with the sniper now and then, but i always had ammo to tear things a new one.

[The Spamming Troll]

marshalleck wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

id rather have bioware gearing for the ME1 fans, then the fans that have never played ME and arent familirar with a simple overheat feature.

Ah, so you mean they should be "gearing" for me then. I agree. ME3 weapon mods it is!

i agree, ME3 mods are a great addition. 

i dont really believe that ME2s version of TCs is the best solution to ME weapons for ME3. at the very least weapons should have some kind of cooldown system, easily stealing an idea from this thread.

i just dont see how the most basic ammo system that TCs provides in weapon play was actually the BEST solution. especially since ME1 had a decent start to potentially a great and unique weapon system. it seems like BS to me.

[AMmayhem]

Overheating in ME1 was unique to Mass Effect; provided different gameplay not found elsewhere.

Thermal clips in ME2 were not unique; every shooter since Medal of Honor has clips...

[marshalleck]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

id rather have bioware gearing for the ME1 fans, then the fans that have never played ME and arent familirar with a simple overheat feature.

Ah, so you mean they should be "gearing" for me then. I agree. ME3 weapon mods it is!

i agree, ME3 mods are a great addition. 

i dont really believe that ME2s version of TCs is the best solution to ME weapons for ME3. at the very least weapons should have some kind of cooldown system, easily stealing an idea from this thread.

i just dont see how the most basic ammo system that TCs provides in weapon play was actually the BEST solution. especially since ME1 had a decent start to potentially a great and unique weapon system. it seems like BS to me.

It was the best solution because Bioware didn't want "potentially unique," which can manifest in reality as "actually terrible." Few professional critics or gamers will award conciliatory points in a review for mere "potential." They wanted quality gameplay elements that could be delivered and would work within the overall gameplay design they were going for, which was cover-based third person shooter. That's why they went with the conventional model. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 22 juin 2011 - 05:02 .

[tjzsf]

Why do people think that TCs make for a better gun from an in-verse point of view? Think about it, let's say you were a Vietcong. Would you want a gun that never runs out of ammo so the enemy can't attack your ammo supply line, or would you want a gun that turns into a stick once you run out of clips? Or let's say you're a sniper, where the precision nature of your combat role means that overheat is usually not a problem b/c you're hidden and can wait for the gun to cool down. Why would you switch from a ME1 SR that never runs out to an ME2 SR that, unless it's the Viper, will force you to slug it out with the enemy wielding your (not so) trusty SMG or pistol?

You say clips = no BS waiting for cooldown, I say overheat = no BS looking for clips and switching to a suboptimal gun because my preferred gun is out. And if you are packing a Widow or Mantis or Carnifex it is quite possible to run out simply because fewer clips drop than enemies killed/shots per clip, it is NOT an indication that I just need to get better at shooting.

Also, Overheat was only god-gun if you strapped two Frictionless mods together. Using a single case to negate the whole is bad logic, pure and simple. If you were like me and rather had 2-of-3 combitnations of frictionless, scram rail, and kinetic coil, taping down the fire button would be bad because I would overheat.

I want my unlimited ammo back. Failing that, I want my current TC to regenerate shots after long periods of not firing. Failing that, I want my clips to actually be universal so I don't have to use guns that are bad for a situation.

Wherein lies unreasonableness in any of these requests?

[Computer_God91]

tjzsf wrote...

Why do people think that TCs make for a better gun from an in-verse point of view? Think about it, let's say you were a Vietcong. Would you want a gun that never runs out of ammo so the enemy can't attack your ammo supply line, or would you want a gun that turns into a stick once you run out of clips? Or let's say you're a sniper, where the precision nature of your combat role means that overheat is usually not a problem b/c you're hidden and can wait for the gun to cool down. Why would you switch from a ME1 SR that never runs out to an ME2 SR that, unless it's the Viper, will force you to slug it out with the enemy wielding your (not so) trusty SMG or pistol?

You say clips = no BS waiting for cooldown, I say overheat = no BS looking for clips and switching to a suboptimal gun because my preferred gun is out. And if you are packing a Widow or Mantis or Carnifex it is quite possible to run out simply because fewer clips drop than enemies killed/shots per clip, it is NOT an indication that I just need to get better at shooting.

Also, Overheat was only god-gun if you strapped two Frictionless mods together. Using a single case to negate the whole is bad logic, pure and simple. If you were like me and rather had 2-of-3 combitnations of frictionless, scram rail, and kinetic coil, taping down the fire button would be bad because I would overheat.

I want my unlimited ammo back. Failing that, I want my current TC to regenerate shots after long periods of not firing. Failing that, I want my clips to actually be universal so I don't have to use guns that are bad for a situation.

Wherein lies unreasonableness in any of these requests?

This is the point I've been trying to get across along with better Biotics.