397 réponses à ce sujet

[tobynator89]

here is why the heatsinks were a huge improvement. They balanced the Power to firing ratio for all weapons, something that didn't really exist in the first game. It's as simple as that.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

tobynator89 wrote...

here is why the heatsinks were a huge improvement. They balanced the Power to firing ratio for all weapons, something that didn't really exist in the first game. It's as simple as that.

No, it's not as simple as that. Please explain.

[Jeth Prime]

The over heating wasn't bad, but compared to clips, it was pretty lame.... It would be cool is certain guns did over heat....

[The Spamming Troll]

Someone With Mass wrote...

There's really no dept in having the overheat system either. All you need to do is to add better heatsinks as the game goes on. Taa-daa. Shoot forever.

id think youd have to have been told by now, nobody wants that combat to return in ME3.

does anyone want glitches too, those were in ME1 as well.

tobynator89 wrote...

here is why the heatsinks were a huge
improvement. They balanced the Power to firing ratio for all weapons,
something that didn't really exist in the first game. It's as simple as
that.

the weapons are what changed, not the ammo. your confusing basically one gun(ME1 pistol), to 19 completely different weapons in ME3. you wouldnt think adding that weapon variety to ME1s gaemplay wouldnt give you very similar results? but no, bioware toke the EASIEST route i can imagin. and as you know, im a moron, and even i think its easy.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 24 juin 2011 - 04:07 .

[Dem_B]

In my opinion the problem can be solved simply: overheated clip should automatically replaced after the end of its capacity (magSize).
That is, Shepard not cringe bolt manually , and VI of weapon automatically adjusts and replaces thermal clip.
This is a good system that will remind overheating. Futuristic weapons should be more automated.
 

Modifié par Dem_B, 29 juin 2011 - 07:08 .

[Lumikki]

First I don't mean any harm what I say here, but I'm starting to think more and more that some people just don't get combat style differences as how different aspect of combats are connected.

I could use metaform, like art student. You have some normal person looking art in gallery and that person says nice paintings, but that person doesn't really get the differences between paintings, because they are just paintings to him. How ever, for that art student they all present different kind of style and are totally different kind of paintings. Because that art student gets the differences, while the normal person did not see them.

When I looked in armor and weapon related threads in this forum, I see same issue there. Some person looks hole game like from lore point, like how futuristic style is in Mass Effect universe and how it's all connected togather or RPG point as customation as how fun it's to find better items and have deep variety. But they just don't really get it from combat point of view, how that all affects the combat gameplay it self too. Because they don't understand or feel the differences same ways than some of us do. It's just lore or better items for them.

Now, do I think these other peoples point is wrong? No, not at all, but some of the suggestion does affect really badly in combat side. Does this also mean that combat choises hurt lore or RPG side too? Yes it does, of course it hurts them, but there is where priorities and compromizes comes in.

In end it's about where every players priorities are, in combat, lore or RPG features. They do sometimes conflict each others while sometimes they don't.

In end I stand behind termal clips for single reason. While I want best lore and RPG Mass Effect can have, because I love them both. A lot of gameplay in Mass Effec is combat related and I don't sacriface it just sake of RPG and lore. I could say even half of gameplay is combat and I really want it to work well. Not just be and feel like some simple RPG combat, what feels like middle age combat, but TPS what feels more like modern warfare combat. Yeah, I really mean that you can have futuristic laser weapons and hole combat feels like middle age combat. It's the combat style how it works what makes the difference.

Modifié par Lumikki, 29 juin 2011 - 09:01 .

[Mixon]

clips are cool. making me thinking how to shot.

[HTTP 404]

dont forget to vote in my sig

[ProRyker]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

ProRyker wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i wish weapons functioned like they did in ME2, but i had a overheat mechanic in stead of an ammo count. just make the weapons exactly the same, but make the weapon overheat in as many shots as it takes to "run out of ammo." wouldnt that be easy enough?

in ME1, i adore never having to reload. literally there wasnt anything better then never having to reload my weapon, my gun did that for me. i didnt have to waste the B button for reloading either, i could use it for an ability. one less thing to worry about. autoreloading means i could put more bullets down range faster too.

i always see people say they likeed ammo instead of overheating, but ive never seen a reason why one is better then the other. i just apreciated the feeling to combat ME1s overheating mechanic gave, and i surely miss it. i dont miss thermal clips.

Overheating vs Clips are pretty simular except for the overheating is a lazy man's shooter mechanic, where they don't have to search for clips (Ruins tactical approach) or reload and never have to worry about ammo.  Thermal clips makes the game more tactical because you have to be aware of how much ammo you have, and can't go around Godmoding like an idiot.  I am a fan of both RPG and shooters, and although I see your argument as a preferrence of yours, I don't see overheating as the best approach to combat in ME3.  Again it's lazy thinking that people don't want to spend time looking for ammo, or thinking about I have 25 shots left in this gun, and 6 enemies left I gotta play smart, get in close and use my shotty, which I have 10 rounds of which are one hit one kill.  However, you are entitled to your opinion, I just don't agree to it.

were not comparing gameplay in ME1 provided by dual frictionless materials tho. somehow over time and unfortunately, people have turned ME1s weapons into something as simple as simple as "stupid, because i could fire forever." even tho that arguments meaning is directly the opposite of what those people think.

i dont see how running out of ammo(have you ever actually run out of ammo, or are you just using this as an excuse?) is better for tactics. if you made a shooter and it contained a class that specialized in sniping, would you give that character a limit of 12 total shots?

also, reloading is not a tactical advantage. really? i appreciated the hell out of my weapon reloading for me in ME1. i loved never having to hit a button to fire more bullets. take a 6 shooter pistol for example. youd rather pop out of cover, shoot 4 bullets, and be stuck with 2 bullets until you reloaded, OR have your weapon put those bullets back in automatically?

i like my opinion better.

You are entitled to your opinion doesn't mean it's better just makes it yours.  Same goes for me and everyone elses.  However, reload presents a REAL LIFE style of scenario you have to duck in cover to reload, you can't do it in the open, well sure you could but it wouldn't be SMART.  Anything that causes you to think or causes you to develope a system, in other words a strategy.  To me, only thing about overheatingdoes is to watch out for overheating.  I have run out of ammo in the game, that doesn't mean it's hard to find just means I have to, ready for this... Change my tactics which means switch up my guns and approach. I love sniping, but anyone with military background could tell you you might be a marksman master at sniping but when you are out of ammo for your weapon you need to know how to shoot and utilize other weaponry.  I understand it's a game thats why I can see your argument but that doesn't present the most thrilling and realistic type of RPG shooter experience in my opinion.  Even in the future who is to say ammo would be completely ruled out, more advanced but not ruled out.  In that case to make everyone happy Bioware should pull a Halo, have human weaponry and alien tech where they run on a cartridge type overheating system.  That makes more sense with a gun with no ammo that has a near infinite weapons charge.  I love to snipe but it just doesn't make sense to have a weapon that never runs out of ammo.

[Cypher0020]

i"m playing ME1 and ME2 back to back... and lemme tell you, I prefer the clips to the overheating...I'm rusty with ME1 but I've died so many times because the lousy weapon overheated, I get mobbed and game over....

Plus my fingers still spam X buttom.... and I realize its a no clip gun

[wyk4wgary]

Clips of course
how come I could have unlimited ammo?

[Conderious]

i think a compromise would be better. I like the overheat system because it allow essentially infinite ammo but a limited duration of constant fire. On the other hand the thermal clips defintely spead up the game and makes the combat more fluid.

Im suggesting that we use a system similar to gears of war active reload. the weapon would overheat normally as in mass effect 1 (maybe a little longer) but you can manually reload the weapon by using a thermal clip instantly cooling the weapon. this method would keep the constant flow of combat but still allow the usage of the weapon when you run out of thermal clips

And for all the people who complain about the mass effect 1 weapons that never overheat, it also requires you to be out of cover loger which in mass effect 1 is ok but in mass effect 2 can easily become suicidal

[Praetor Knight]

Conderious wrote...

i think a compromise would be better. I like the overheat system because it allow essentially infinite ammo but a limited duration of constant fire. On the other hand the thermal clips defintely spead up the game and makes the combat more fluid.

Im suggesting that we use a system similar to gears of war active reload. the weapon would overheat normally as in mass effect 1 (maybe a little longer) but you can manually reload the weapon by using a thermal clip instantly cooling the weapon. this method would keep the constant flow of combat but still allow the usage of the weapon when you run out of thermal clips

And for all the people who complain about the mass effect 1 weapons that never overheat, it also requires you to be out of cover loger which in mass effect 1 is ok but in mass effect 2 can easily become suicidal

What about those of us who are butterfingers with such mechanisms? Like me! 
I didn't like that set up much when I played that game, but it did add some tension when I fouled up.

So I'd rather not throw in a mini-game funtion into the flow of combat into ME3, even with omni-tools being available.



And there are other forms of compromise we could consider, if many gamers really want some type of change with Thermal Clips.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 06 juillet 2011 - 09:05 .

[Icinix]

Overheating clips. I love them.

I enjoy the game more with them. I prefer playing the game with overheating, not just because of what they do for the gameplay, but what they do for the sci-fi feel of the game.

ME2 combat, although improved, started to feel too much like any other shooter.

The intensity with overheating clips was crazy, things like being charged by Krogan (they became pansy in ME2) as you unload your shotgun into him, they're a few metres and the gun overheats forcing you to change weapon. You bring them down with the pistol, but they start regenerating....you swap back to the shotgun just in time to watch the last couple of bars drop off the overheating gauge, as the Krogan starts getting up, and you unload it into him, taking him down. Then nothing but the sounds of an overheating shotgun and your breathing.

Its sci-fi, its intense, it felt Mass Effect. They added a huge feel to the combat. I didn't have any of those memorable moments in ME2 - but I can remember many like that in ME1.

I get it, some people hated it, some people loved it.

So all I'm asking for BioWare - is you allow weapon mods to cover this.

Allow the player to choose how their ammunition works, be it thermal clips, or overheating. Please just make it a mod item that you can chop and choose.

[SandTrout]

I really don't feel like reading through all 16 pages of this, but has anyone yet presented combining the two systems?

Most of the time, your weapon behave like ME1 weapons with the rising heat bar. However, once your weapon overheats, you have the option of switching to another weapon to allow it to cool down on its own, or you can choose to eject the heat-sink(thermal clip) and replace it, allowing the weapon to return to the fight immediately.

This combination of the systems would allow heat-conscious players to conserve 'ammo' through judicious firing patterns, while players that tend more toward overwhelming offense can still reload as needed. It also makes more sense within the context of the lore.

[Rahmiel]

Thermal clips make the most sense (even lore wise). If you take the gun system from the first game, and have a never ending shooting assault rifle.. that's cool. But how powerful can it be? Imagine upgrades in shields/barriers.

Think of a system that allows the user to increase the dmg of the weapon (i.e. sniper rifle with rail extensions or explosive rounds) at the cost of heat generation. How best to get firing as soon as possible? You develop the thermal clip weapon system. Now you're not waiting on weapons to cooldown, you're firing more power on target than you could without a thermal clip system. As you would either not be doing enough dmg to punch through enemy defenses, or you'd have to wait on cooldown.

With thermal clips, your weapon can firing continuously (provided you have enough clips). The only thing that upsets me.. is why no one has yet devised a system where you take the ejected thermal clip, and put it into an arm mounted cooling node.. think of it as a recharge station. That way, shep would only need say.. 3 clips in reserve, and all his weapons with clips, then he could just keep swapping through them, etc.

Meh.. anyway, I was opposed to clips when I first heard about them, but it works. It's just a way of maximising both firepower, and fire rate. Something you could not do in the first game. You could either have your weapon never overheat, or you could go for raw power but overheat. ME2 you get both, but you need clips. Second system seems to be better.

[KevShep]

SandTrout wrote...

I really don't feel like reading through all 16 pages of this, but has anyone yet presented combining the two systems?

Most of the time, your weapon behave like ME1 weapons with the rising heat bar. However, once your weapon overheats, you have the option of switching to another weapon to allow it to cool down on its own, or you can choose to eject the heat-sink(thermal clip) and replace it, allowing the weapon to return to the fight immediately.

This combination of the systems would allow heat-conscious players to conserve 'ammo' through judicious firing patterns, while players that tend more toward overwhelming offense can still reload as needed. It also makes more sense within the context of the lore.

 I agree with you. I have posted this same thing in an earlier post. It makes me mad that bioware uses thermal clips like magazines instead of keeping the gun cool. If I fire 20-30 frounds I should not have to change out a thermal clip as long as I fire at a steady pace since guns in mass effect can fire about a thousand rounds from a single block of metal before having to change ammo.

[Praetor Knight]

SandTrout wrote...

I really don't feel like reading through all 16 pages of this, but has anyone yet presented combining the two systems?

Most of the time, your weapon behave like ME1 weapons with the rising heat bar. However, once your weapon overheats, you have the option of switching to another weapon to allow it to cool down on its own, or you can choose to eject the heat-sink(thermal clip) and replace it, allowing the weapon to return to the fight immediately.

This combination of the systems would allow heat-conscious players to conserve 'ammo' through judicious firing patterns, while players that tend more toward overwhelming offense can still reload as needed. It also makes more sense within the context of the lore.

I've been through this kind of thread many times and I could at least provide some alternatives to a hybrid.
And I think that a hybrid system would take too much time to balance, so building on how Thermal Clips might be improved upon is another option in ME3.

The simplest would be to increase the number of rounds for the most troublesome weapons (which seem to be Sniper Rifles and Pistols), and also to improve the rate of round pickups for those weapons, so more shots per Thermal Clip pickup.


Another is to refill weapons after a fight, before moving on to the next fight in a mission. Lore-wise this would be done by using clips in the field, maybe armor and maybe made with an omni-tool, but during the fight we would still need to move around to get more clips, power cells and/or use a weapon's locker.


And maybe we could incorporate something that could refill weapons during combat. For now I'll just link to an idea I've thought of, but it would use the omni-tool to do so: http://social.biowar...813644#7814200

And I've come up with a few more!
But I just stop for now.

[The Spamming Troll]

ProRyker wrote...

You are entitled to your opinion doesn't mean it's better just makes it yours.  Same goes for me and everyone elses.  However, reload presents a REAL LIFE style of scenario you have to duck in cover to reload, you can't do it in the open, well sure you could but it wouldn't be SMART.  Anything that causes you to think or causes you to develope a system, in other words a strategy.  To me, only thing about overheatingdoes is to watch out for overheating.  I have run out of ammo in the game, that doesn't mean it's hard to find just means I have to, ready for this... Change my tactics which means switch up my guns and approach. I love sniping, but anyone with military background could tell you you might be a marksman master at sniping but when you are out of ammo for your weapon you need to know how to shoot and utilize other weaponry.  I understand it's a game thats why I can see your argument but that doesn't present the most thrilling and realistic type of RPG shooter experience in my opinion.  Even in the future who is to say ammo would be completely ruled out, more advanced but not ruled out.  In that case to make everyone happy Bioware should pull a Halo, have human weaponry and alien tech where they run on a cartridge type overheating system.  That makes more sense with a gun with no ammo that has a near infinite weapons charge.  I love to snipe but it just doesn't make sense to have a weapon that never runs out of ammo.

yeah, real life circa 1873. its the future, man. weve got force powers and aliens with tentacles. i dont care about what you think is real life or not.

changing your weapon shouldnt be forced upon a player. it should be the players choice to switch weapons, not because i have some arbitrary number of bullets. do i need to bring up the point in having a sniper centric class like the infiltrator, and only giving it 11 shots?

well apparently the old weapons, that used ammo, wouldnt work against shields. so no, ammo as we know it now wouldnt work in the MEuniverse.

also, noone wants gameplay where you "never run out of ammo." nobody. i dont know why its always the go to excuse to people on your side of the argument. its like you guys are missing the point of the argument.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 07 juillet 2011 - 02:18 .

[tjzsf]

Go on vacation, find that again convo has passed.

If your gripe against the ME1 system was that it made you be able to hold down the fire button, just don't use the Heat Sinks/Frictionless Materials mods. Now you have a limit on how much you can fire, and it's harder. Yippee for you. Me, I prefer actually feeling like I'm in the future shooting at future enemies with my future gun that's much better than a modern gun because it has infinite ammo.

Claim lore is an excuse for not wanting to scrounge for ammo all you like. One question: was looking for clips fun for you?

[Sierra Crysis]

I can see the benefits of popping heat-sinks in a lore perspective, but I cant see them dropping overheating all together. It seems to me that really there should've been some sort've combination. Use all your thermal magazines and you have to wait it out. There should also of been modifications specifically designed to sponge up heat and prolong your thermal magazines.

Really it's not the thermal magazines that bothered me about having them in ME2, it was the complete absence of any substancial weapon modification for them. I really can't count the upgrades you research cause I literally couldn't see how they helped as I progressed through the game. The badguys got harder so it was basically the same all throughout.

I'm hoping the mods are much more diverse in ME3

[darthnick427]

I like the ammo feature. it made the game more challenging .