397 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...
*chortle* As if the your original quote was anything but irrational.

Go through the history of these threads, and you will see what I mean.

More of the same, really. It's impossible to argue with someone who dismisses arguments by labelling them as "irrational" or "illogical" as if he has some type of authority on the word.

For the record, I'm hinting at irony here.

[Admoniter]

The Spamming Troll wrote...
my person favorite thing to happen to ME3 would be to implement a ME1 type pistol. not even mods, just an unmodded, underpowered, overheating pistol i can use when i run out of stupid ammo in ME3.

Pull a Republic Commando I would approve of that. Infact I would approve of anything from Rep Com making its way into other games.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...
Oh, so you're trying to show how RPGs are only as deep as their weapon weaknesses? Okay.

In that case I won't mention skill progression, economies, character equipment ("Who needs this heavy palamantium armor the most?") or player freedom ("Am I prepared to tackle that main quest, or should I level up before it?"). You're welcome.

To tackle the "character equipment" issue, you obviously give it to the person who needs the overall statistical upgrade the most. If it has stats like Block and Parry, then you give it to your tanking character. If you have two tanks, then the previous rules apply.

Common sense.

Look, I enjoy all types of games, but I'm not about to pretend that playing games within my chosen genre makes me more sophisticated or somehow more intelligent than everyone that doesn't, because that is factually incorrect. At the end of the day, all we're doing is pressing buttons.

You're the only one I can recall who brought up "IQ". I just think that the average RPG requires more thought and insight from the player than the average FPS.

I can't think of anyone who would disagree with that (unless you do?).

[Jorina Leto]

Lordgleen wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Guns wrote...

Thermal clips suck.

No you suck. 
Thermal clips were the best thing to happen to the ME universe.

NO the thermal clip way was is a real bad idea. I miss the cool down way of ME1. Also most people I sea that like the ammo clip opten are shooter fans I'm a RPG fan and the thinking and tatics of ME1 with the over heating was a much better system.

Hear, hear.

[Bogsnot1]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...
*chortle* As if the your original quote was anything but irrational.

Go through the history of these threads, and you will see what I mean.

More of the same, really. It's impossible to argue with someone who dismisses arguments by labelling them as "irrational" or "illogical" as if he has some type of authority on the word.
For the record, I'm hinting at irony here.

It was rational, it just contained some emotion, that emotion being called exasperation. The same emotion that would have been expressed if I had said "Oh look, this thread again".

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...
*chortle* As if the your original quote was anything but irrational.

Go through the history of these threads, and you will see what I mean.

More of the same, really. It's impossible to argue with someone who dismisses arguments by labelling them as "irrational" or "illogical" as if he has some type of authority on the word.
For the record, I'm hinting at irony here.

It was rational, it just contained some emotion, that emotion being called exasperation. The same emotion that would have been expressed if I had said "Oh look, this thread again".

Like I said. Irony.




I'm tired of talking to idiots like you. All you people seem to want is a straight-up shooter, no real thought involved.

^^ Am I doing it right? 

Modifié par Mr. MannlyMan, 21 juin 2011 - 06:07 .

[Praetor Knight]

nvm

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 21 juin 2011 - 06:14 .

[CroGamer002]

Clips are better and good.

Fun and challenging.

[Jorina Leto]

The Spamming Troll wrote...



-imagine ME1s overheating weapons WITHOUT mods
-add in ME2s standard/iconic weapon variety, along with whats being implied in ME3s mods
-implement a reload option, that when a player inserts a new ammo block, the weapon instantly is refreshed
-allow each class to carry a certain amount of replacement thermal blocks(like carrying medigel), soldiers carrying more so they are in the fight longer, casters carrying less
-done

....is it that easy?

I support this hybrid system.

It would be fun and would make sense.

[Someone With Mass]

Mesina2 wrote...

Clips are better and good.

Fun and challenging.

[Massadonious1]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...
Oh, so you're trying to show how RPGs are only as deep as their weapon weaknesses? Okay.

In that case I won't mention skill progression, economies, character equipment ("Who needs this heavy palamantium armor the most?") or player freedom ("Am I prepared to tackle that main quest, or should I level up before it?"). You're welcome.

To tackle the "character equipment" issue, you obviously give it to the person who needs the overall statistical upgrade the most. If it has stats like Block and Parry, then you give it to your tanking character. If you have two tanks, then the previous rules apply.

Common sense.

Look, I enjoy all types of games, but I'm not about to pretend that playing games within my chosen genre makes me more sophisticated or somehow more intelligent than everyone that doesn't, because that is factually incorrect. At the end of the day, all we're doing is pressing buttons.

You're the only one I can recall who brought up "IQ". I just think that the average RPG requires more thought and insight from the player than the average FPS.

I can't think of anyone who would disagree with that (unless you do?).

I only brought it up because someone said that he was used to BioWare games that required "brain power" and I questioned if that ever was the case.

And I would probably agree in the sense that it probably takes a little more thought and insight to figure out the system. Once you figure out that a low THACO number is better than a high THACO number, and things of that nature, the thought process is virtually the same.

Good narratives and stories aren't necessairly limited to RPG's, either.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 21 juin 2011 - 06:23 .

[CroGamer002]

Jorina Leto wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...



-imagine ME1s overheating weapons WITHOUT mods
-add in ME2s standard/iconic weapon variety, along with whats being implied in ME3s mods
-implement a reload option, that when a player inserts a new ammo block, the weapon instantly is refreshed
-allow each class to carry a certain amount of replacement thermal blocks(like carrying medigel), soldiers carrying more so they are in the fight longer, casters carrying less
-done

....is it that easy?

I support this hybrid system.

It would be fun and would make sense.

Hybrid is even worse.

Both gameplay wise and lore.

[wolfennights]

Can I say that I just LOVE the sound the guns make when you reload them?

[Praetor Knight]

Just have a post-combat refill in some fashion, and problems solved. Lore-wise there is much available to support such a minor tweak.

Plus, no hybrid stuff necessary, and nothing too complicated either for gameplay mechanics.

[imadipp]

"I'm commander shepherd and I can't decide how my gun works."

/gameover

[Bogsnot1]

wolfennights wrote...

Can I say that I just LOVE the sound the guns make when you reload them?

Just do so very quietly, lest you be bombarded by those who hate the thermal clip system.

[Juha81FIN]

There was nothing really wrong with ME1 weapons, especially when you were able modd them properly. There was more problems with enemy AI which tried to swarm you constantly which doesn´t happen in ME2 (excluding husks).
I don´t really have problems with TC system either, because it works. But weapons feel like pea shooters, their damage don´t scale well.

[Sgt Stryker]

Mesina2 wrote...

Jorina Leto wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...



-imagine ME1s overheating weapons WITHOUT mods
-add in ME2s standard/iconic weapon variety, along with whats being implied in ME3s mods
-implement a reload option, that when a player inserts a new ammo block, the weapon instantly is refreshed
-allow each class to carry a certain amount of replacement thermal blocks(like carrying medigel), soldiers carrying more so they are in the fight longer, casters carrying less
-done

....is it that easy?

I support this hybrid system.

It would be fun and would make sense.

Hybrid is even worse.

Both gameplay wise and lore.

Care to elaborate on why you think a hybrid system is worse for the lore than what we have now?

[hwf]

The hybrid system's got my preference.

The ME1's playstyle felt simplistic to me and just the reloading sound and animation in ME2 really adds something tangible and visceral to the system.

With a hybrid system you have your spare thermal clips for when you need to project massive damage as a combatant.
But if you play it tactically you can not eject it and let the thermal clip stay inside the gun and let it gradually cool down as you reposition yourself - passive heatsink cooling if you will.
This also allows for additional gun customization; will you go for bigger heatsink capacity (more ME2 style 'ammo') or will you install more passive heat dissipation technology (more ME1 style heatsinking/cooling play)?

A hybrid system makes sense, in-game lorewise, for special forces as well - a sniper taking one shot and then repositioning leaving no evidence like a glowing hot heatsink.
Again, with a hybrid system you still have the option to eject and replace a heatsink for funky cutscenes and significantly intensified firepower over time during hectic combat.

[packardbell]

 If your gun was upgraded enough..you could fire continously with no worry of it overheating, that was just stupidly overpowered.

[FlyingWalrus]

The cooldown system was a menagerie of bad science snowballed into one bad idea.

1) hot metal does not cool down that fast.
2) if cooldown speeds even came close to mimicking real life, guns would be useless/overheating would be excessively punishing.
3) mods make the system redundant. I am currently laughing at the idea of "limitations" now that I've obtained Spectre gear in my present playthrough.
4) there is no battle that cannot be won without a liberal application of taping the right trigger down after #3 has come to pass.

The idea of thermal clips corrects all these issues. Whether or not you think they are a bad idea is entirely dependent on whether you prefer a game that is easymode on every difficulty level or not.

[Notanything]

FlyingWalrus wrote...

The cooldown system was a menagerie of bad science snowballed into one bad idea.

1) hot metal does not cool down that fast.
2) if cooldown speeds even came close to mimicking real life, guns would be useless/overheating would be excessively punishing.
3) mods make the system redundant. I am currently laughing at the idea of "limitations" now that I've obtained Spectre gear in my present playthrough.
4) there is no battle that cannot be won without a liberal application of taping the right trigger down after #3 has come to pass.

The idea of thermal clips corrects all these issues. Whether or not you think they are a bad idea is entirely dependent on whether you prefer a game that is easymode on every difficulty level or not.

Of course hot metal doesn't cool down that fast, this is a game if I recall correctly.  Generally, overheating systems in other games are used in ways to mitigate to possibility of spamming larger weapons indefinitely, like turrets for instance.  It works pretty well for them.  The odd part is to consider that in other games, things like turrets would be considered on a smaller scale.  And as much as I love overheating, I must admit doing it on the larger scale for a lot of weapons, some problems will obviously be faced.

But I disagree that overheating is a bad system entirely.  Getting the applications right can just be tricky I imagine, but a hybrid system doesn't seem too hard to create.  You get rid of the flaws of both systems with a hybrid system instead of sticking with flaws for one by itself.

[mithikx]

Didn't read every post in the thread, but I like the idea of a hybrid system.
Maybe weapons can have a redundant heatsink that kicks in once you are low on thermal clips but it takes a long time to reload. Or maybe with the weapon mods they are (re)adding you can increase the effectiveness of "rounds" per "magazine" because of increased effectiveness of the thermal clip's heat dispersing or something.

[FlyingWalrus]

I'm just saying that it just makes more sense in terms of the milieu to eject a hot heatsink and replace it than to wait for it to cool off. This happens in the real world, too. It's why machine gun crews carry extra barrels.

Overheating isn't a bad idea. Halo Reach's Warthog gun and turrets use it (their efficacy is debatable). The fact that it was the primary system used in ME1 is what made it bad. Once you modded the guns of the highest tier (which are possible to get at levels as low as 31), the mechanic just doesn't matter anymore because you've effectively removed it from the game. That should never happen.

[Icinix]

I would love to see BioWare have a weapon pay load system that you can chop and change between a thermal clip system OR a heatsink system.

Enemies could still drop thermal clips like normal, but the choice for the player to use that system would be entirely in their hands.

I still enjoy the cooldown system from ME1 (started a new playthrough just recently) and find it far more intense than the thermal clip. I find myself keeping an eye on the heat bar more to prevent overloads, rapid weapon switches when they do overheat or the stalkers hit me, retreat madly when krogan are charging and the weapons are overheated etc.

In ME2 all I was doing was looking for sparkling clips on the ground and running around picking them up after / during a fight.

To each their own, but thermal clips...I didn't like one bit.