397 réponses à ce sujet

[JayhartRIC]

Gameplay-wise clips are better; lorewise, it is up for debate if the change made sense or not. It makes plenty sense to me though.

[The Baconer]

dreman9999 wrote...
If you think biotics are just ragdolling people in cut scean with out a reason then you need to learn the lore more.
Biotics are enzo generators and batteries. They have to distarge it or they send out sparksof static energy. Jack being in cryo and the fact that she is a superstrong biotic gave her the chance to store energy and gave here a power boost , just like the power boost you get on Samaras recuit mission form the read sand. Also, Samara, astrong biotic, took out biotic users.We all know that biotics are weak ageinst biotics. Miranda was angry, that get her that one time boost.
On topic, the point is that  it harder to overheat guns in ME2 and it easy to recover from it. And in ME1 is way easy to overheat guns and it harder to recover from it.

I don't think you're comprehending my point so I'll put it in clearer terms: There are disparities between how things function in the lore and how they function in gameplay, and for the sake of balanced gameplay sometimes certain liberties must be taken. A perfect example of that is all the cutscenes you just described, and the fact that none of those events can be recreated in gameplay because of balancing.

So guns can't be sabotaged when the enemy has shields, yes, but Biotics wont affect them either in gameplay. In cutscenes and lore, shields aren't able to emasculate these powers so easily. It works the same way with tech powers. The extra protection against sabotage has nothing to do with the actual lore, and is all about game mechanics.

[Fruit of the Doom]

Thermal clips are stupid and I saw them do mean things to a baby in the park once.

[SeaSquared]

I rationalized that the new thermal clip system makes weapons more powerful, which is true as everything (including Shep) is more fragile in ME2, but according to the offical lore all it does is let use shoot more often.

Lame.

How often did you really ever come to overheating in ME1 even with low-end gear? because in my experiance if you were precise you rarely needed to not shoot when you have a shot anyway, maybe for like a second at most.

Anyway heres the honest reason I sometimes like the idea of overheating

1. no running out- this doesnt happen much/ever in ME2 anyway but sometimes I just wanna snipe people but I can only do that for so long now, its not bad, but I wish I had a tad more ammo for snipers and shotguns, even if it makes the game a bit easier.

2. The lore reasoning behind the change was pretty weaksauce. I think gameplay is better off this way overall and Its obviously the only reason for changing, but They could have come up with something a bit better than "the geth have em so why dont we?" its just so dumb that I cant even take it seriously.

[The Baconer]

Bocks wrote...

Just make a synthesis of the two systems. It's not that hard, Bioware.



Tell me why this would not be the best possible system for ME3.

A system like this would indeed be the most consistent with the lore.

[dreman9999]

The Baconer wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
If you think biotics are just ragdolling people in cut scean with out a reason then you need to learn the lore more.
Biotics are enzo generators and batteries. They have to distarge it or they send out sparksof static energy. Jack being in cryo and the fact that she is a superstrong biotic gave her the chance to store energy and gave here a power boost , just like the power boost you get on Samaras recuit mission form the read sand. Also, Samara, astrong biotic, took out biotic users.We all know that biotics are weak ageinst biotics. Miranda was angry, that get her that one time boost.
On topic, the point is that  it harder to overheat guns in ME2 and it easy to recover from it. And in ME1 is way easy to overheat guns and it harder to recover from it.

I don't think you're comprehending my point so I'll put it in clearer terms: There are disparities between how things function in the lore and how they function in gameplay, and for the sake of balanced gameplay sometimes certain liberties must be taken. A perfect example of that is all the cutscenes you just described, and the fact that none of those events can be recreated in gameplay because of balancing.

So guns can't be sabotaged when the enemy has shields, yes, but Biotics wont affect them either in gameplay. In cutscenes and lore, shields aren't able to emasculate these powers so easily. It works the same way with tech powers. The extra protection against sabotage has nothing to do with the actual lore, and is all about game mechanics.

Some of it can be recreated in gameplay. In Samares recuit Mission,the red sand give your biotic powers boost. My throw was at level 2 for my adept  on the mission and  it became an area throw. Add onto the fact that the Head Asari you fought pulled down a wall and was throwing things at you.
 But still the point is that the defence in ME2 stops over heats, and it the guns are overheated, they just change the clips.

[Annihilator27]

I just hate running out of clips and running around looking for some.Funny how in the ME3 demo I think Anderson or someone said "Im running out of ammo" lol.

[The Baconer]

dreman9999 wrote...
Some of it can be recreated in gameplay. In Samares recuit Mission,the red sand give your biotic powers boost. My throw was at level 2 for my adept  on the mission and  it became an area throw. Add onto the fact that the Head Asari you fought pulled down a wall and was throwing things at you.

Yeah, but you're not bypassing shields. Which. Was. My. Point.

 

But still the point is that the defence in ME2 stops over heats, and it the guns are overheated, they just change the clips.

The guns have no added defence. It's a gameplay mechanic. Lore-wise, they are just as susceptible to sabotage as ME1 era guns.

[Lumikki]

Eurhetemec wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Why you people argue about the most idiotic system in ME series combat?
No-one is stupid enough to take weapons in war what enemy can disable.

Yes that would absolutely never happen.

http://en.wikipedia....ctronic_warfare

Also military computers are never hacked. Ever.

Soldier hand held WEAPONS, not eletronic or communication and so on..

Modifié par Lumikki, 21 juin 2011 - 08:32 .

[dreman9999]

The Baconer wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Some of it can be recreated in gameplay. In Samares recuit Mission,the red sand give your biotic powers boost. My throw was at level 2 for my adept  on the mission and  it became an area throw. Add onto the fact that the Head Asari you fought pulled down a wall and was throwing things at you.

Yeah, but you're not bypassing shields. Which. Was. My. Point.

 

But still the point is that the defence in ME2 stops over heats, and it the guns are overheated, they just change the clips.

The guns have no added defence. It's a gameplay mechanic. Lore-wise, they are just as susceptible to sabotage as ME1 era guns.

1.So what if I'm not bypassing shields. I don't need to, I overpower them with one shot on that mission. That what your seeing in the cut sceans. Biotics over over powering defence in one shot.
2.Yes, it does. Why because you can overload them in combat and nothing in cutscenes show overload bypassing protection to over heat guns.

[The Spamming Troll]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Baconer wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
I can easilly change you mind on this.
Lets say that that your going to battle and you are presented two guns.
The first gun has unlimited ammo but it jams all the time and your enemy can jam it with though at anytime if they have the power and theirs nothing you can do to stop the gun from jamming.
The Second gun does more damage and last longer  but has limited ammo but you can take your enemies ammo to restore your ammo.
Which gun will you take with you?

It's easy to make skewed analogies.

Oh really. Most people who whine about Heat clips forget that in ME1, they had sabotage.It stopped you gun from working for for many moments. The fact that it's a tech power and between ME1 and 2 the Galaxy was fighting a tech race never dawn to people that this tech race may have tech powers in Mass...

The point is no one in any armed force would
bring a gun with them that in anyway can be unreliable. If the gun
jams a lot and stop working, they consider it a liability. And with the
Geth able to use sabotage in mass, it's a huge liability.

sabotage is the reason why ME1 weapons sucked???

thats like someone saying enemy protections are the reason adepts suck.

[dreman9999]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Baconer wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
I can easilly change you mind on this.
Lets say that that your going to battle and you are presented two guns.
The first gun has unlimited ammo but it jams all the time and your enemy can jam it with though at anytime if they have the power and theirs nothing you can do to stop the gun from jamming.
The Second gun does more damage and last longer  but has limited ammo but you can take your enemies ammo to restore your ammo.
Which gun will you take with you?

It's easy to make skewed analogies.

Oh really. Most people who whine about Heat clips forget that in ME1, they had sabotage.It stopped you gun from working for for many moments. The fact that it's a tech power and between ME1 and 2 the Galaxy was fighting a tech race never dawn to people that this tech race may have tech powers in Mass...

The point is no one in any armed force would
bring a gun with them that in anyway can be unreliable. If the gun
jams a lot and stop working, they consider it a liability. And with the
Geth able to use sabotage in mass, it's a huge liability.

sabotage is the reason why ME1 weapons sucked???

thats like someone saying enemy protections are the reason adepts suck.

So you want to compear something that can stop my gun from firing with
no way to stop it from happening to a defemce I can bring down with 3
throws at max with many ways to bypaste the protection?<_<

Modifié par dreman9999, 21 juin 2011 - 08:53 .

[The Baconer]

dreman9999 wrote...
1.So what if I'm not bypassing shields. I don't need to, I overpower them with one shot on that mission. That what your seeing in the cut sceans. Biotics over over powering defence in one shot.
2.Yes, it does. Why because you can overload them in combat and nothing in cutscenes show overload bypassing protection to over heat guns.

I can see the mechanics of Gameplay =/= Lore simply sail right over your head, so I shall endeavor to debate someone who can actually comprehend what I'm saying. I bid you good day.

[Lumikki]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

sabotage is the reason why ME1 weapons sucked???

No, it was fine ability in gameplay wise and fun to have, but as technical sense it doesn't make any sense at all and lore wise it's not so good, more like idiotic. Never would happen in any warfare the way it's done. Skill agaist something else than hand held weapons, like communication or some electronics stuff, sure, but hand weapons.

Modifié par Lumikki, 21 juin 2011 - 09:01 .

[dreman9999]

The Baconer wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1.So what if I'm not bypassing shields. I don't need to, I overpower them with one shot on that mission. That what your seeing in the cut sceans. Biotics over over powering defence in one shot.
2.Yes, it does. Why because you can overload them in combat and nothing in cutscenes show overload bypassing protection to over heat guns.

I can see the mechanics of Gameplay =/= Lore simply sail right over your head, so I shall endeavor to debate someone who can actually comprehend what I'm saying. I bid you good day.

I know what your taking about. The fact is nothing state that overload goes through protection and overheats guns Lore wise.

[Eurhetemec]

Lumikki wrote...

Soldier hand held WEAPONS, not eletronic or communication and so on..

These weapons are electronic. They use electricity to generate a carefully controlled mass effect field to accelerate a slug out of the barrel. That requires electronics at every step of the path. Further, because they cut the bullets out of blocks of metal themselves, they must have a computer-controlled "bullet factory" inside them.

We also know that from ME2, all the guns have electronic auto-targeting devices, that do things like automatically compensate for wind, movement, and so on. You can read this in your ME2 Upgrade descriptions if you don't believe me. Look at Assault Rifle Accuracy or Sniper Rifle Headshot upgrades for example. The former helps the user's aim by using computer-controlled mass effect-field deflection of the bullets, and the latter does something very similar.

They also automatically open and close without the user having to stop and press a button or the like, which requires electronic sensors to tell where they are and how they're oriented, and electric motors (or similar) to move all the parts into place. In ME1 they also have computerized heat-monitoring and automatic gun-disablers for if it goes too high.

That's not your daddy's Colt M4 (or M16 or AK47). Those are purely mechanical, industrial-age weapons (even if fin de siecle ones).

These are information-age or even post-information age weapons. They probably have software, and computers more powerful than dozens of modern-day PCs in them. I believe the idea is that a skilled-enough omni-tool user can find a way to cause them to fail (they are quite complex) for a brief period before they auto-correct, and that's certainly far more plausible than you're giving it credit for.

All you'd have to do would be to get one to activate it's closing process at the wrong moment, or stop cutting bullets, or just be enter auto-heat-vent mode. They're smart enough to fix themselves, but smart enough to get broken.

OTOH the massive explosions from Sabotage in ME1? Yeah they were a bit silly

Modifié par Eurhetemec, 21 juin 2011 - 09:05 .

[mauro2222]

I liked more the system in ME1, I tend to switch weapons more because I had installed different types of ammo in every one.

The assault rifle - Proton Rounds
Shotgun - Shredder Rounds
Sniper Rifle - Armor Piercing Rounds
Pistol - Radioactive Rounds

So when krogans charge, bang shotgun, when I face biotics pew pew, pistol, when the geth appears TUM, sniper, and when they have shields TATATATATA assault rifle

[The Spamming Troll]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Baconer wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
I can easilly change you mind on this.
Lets say that that your going to battle and you are presented two guns.
The first gun has unlimited ammo but it jams all the time and your enemy can jam it with though at anytime if they have the power and theirs nothing you can do to stop the gun from jamming.
The Second gun does more damage and last longer  but has limited ammo but you can take your enemies ammo to restore your ammo.
Which gun will you take with you?

It's easy to make skewed analogies.

Oh really. Most people who whine about Heat clips forget that in ME1, they had sabotage.It stopped you gun from working for for many moments. The fact that it's a tech power and between ME1 and 2 the Galaxy was fighting a tech race never dawn to people that this tech race may have tech powers in Mass...

The point is no one in any armed force would
bring a gun with them that in anyway can be unreliable. If the gun
jams a lot and stop working, they consider it a liability. And with the
Geth able to use sabotage in mass, it's a huge liability.

sabotage is the reason why ME1 weapons sucked???

thats like someone saying enemy protections are the reason adepts suck.

So you want to compear something that can stop my gun from firing with
no way to stop it from happening to a defemce I can bring down with 3
throws at max with many ways to bypaste the protection?<_<

nope. i was just poking fun at myself.

[Lumikki]

Eurhetemec wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Soldier hand held WEAPONS, not eletronic or communication and so on..

These weapons are electronic.

And you just now proved one aspect how Mass Effect weapon lore is badly done.
Never EVER would soldier go in warfare with weapon what enemy can disable by remote.
Those soldiers would take 2000 era weapons to battle, rather than Mass Effect future weapons.

I would.

How you gonna stop my daddy's Colt M4 *wink*

Modifié par Lumikki, 21 juin 2011 - 09:18 .

[mauro2222]

Lumikki wrote...

Eurhetemec wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Soldier hand held WEAPONS, not eletronic or communication and so on..

These weapons are electronic.

And you just now proved how Mass Effect weapon lore is badly done.
Never EVER would soldier go in warfare with weapon what enemy can disable by remote.
Those soldiers would take 2000 century weapons to battle, rather than Mass Effect future weapons.

I would.

Well I wouldn't call it disable. It's much like they hack the computer inside the weapon, so it thinks that it reached a certain temperature, so the integrated computer shuts down the system in order to cooldown and prevent the soldier from shoot again a blow his hand.

I see your point. But uhm a modern weapon would do **** to a cinetic barrier xD and today we have EMP to disable weapons so its practically the same

[Sgt Stryker]

Lumikki wrote...
Those soldiers would take 2000 era weapons to battle, rather than Mass Effect future weapons.

I would.

How you gonna stop my daddy's Colt M4 *wink*

With kinetic barriers.

[Eurhetemec]

Lumikki wrote...

And you just now proved how Mass Effect weapon lore is badly done.
Never EVER would soldier go in warfare with weapon what enemy can disable by remote.
Those soldiers would take 2000 century weapons to battle, rather than Mass Effect future weapons.

I would.

ROFL. And you'd die.

That's like taking a knife to a gunfight, just because guns jam sometimes.

That's a totally unrealistic attitude. In the 1500s-through-1800s, guns jammed, blew up, broke, and so on with terrifying regularity. Yet people still brought guns instead of swords, spears, or even bows or crossbows.

Why? Because it was worth the risk.

Taking a M16 (say) to an ME battle would be hysterical. All your bullets would be casually swatted aside by the kinetic barriers because they were going fast enough to be detected, but slow enough to hardly require any energy to deflect. Even if the person had their kinetic barrier off, if they were wearing full body armour, your gun would just bounce off. It might knock them around, maybe even break a finger if you were very lucky, but it would not penetrate the sort of armour that can stop or slow an ME-field weapon.

Also, just how well, do you think, would an M16 survive you being hit by an Incinerate blast? Or it's bullets?

Modifié par Eurhetemec, 21 juin 2011 - 09:28 .

[Lumikki]

mauro2222 wrote...

I see your point. But uhm a modern weapon would do **** to a cinetic barrier xD and today we have EMP to disable weapons so its practically the same

Kinetic is what todays old weapons does, they attack is kinetic energy, but so does Mass Effect weapons.
EMP how ever has no affect to chemical reactions, only eletronicals. So, EMP doesn't affect old fashion weapons at all.

People haven't notice that Mass Effect weapons are also kinetic?

Modifié par Lumikki, 21 juin 2011 - 09:32 .

[Computer_God91]

Yes, Overheating was alot better then thermal clips. Sure it needed tweaking like plenty of things in ME1 did. A hybrid system would do good I think. Running out of ammo is absolutely stupid lore wise and game play wise. Ammo never added tension to the battles for me it just added annoyance.

[mauro2222]

Lumikki wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

I see your point. But uhm a modern weapon would do **** to a cinetic barrier xD and today we have EMP to disable weapons so its practically the same

Kinetic is what todays old weapons does, they attack is kinetic energy, but so does Mass Effect weapons.
EMP how ever has no affect chemical reactions only eletronicals. So, EMP doesn't affect old fashion weapons at all.

People havent notice that Mass Effect weapons are also kinetic?

Of course they are, ME weapons are railguns that accelerate the tiny metal particle to an incredible speed.

Modifié par mauro2222, 21 juin 2011 - 09:40 .