141 réponses à ce sujet

[Aedan_Cousland]

I'm not talking about a carbon copy of that mission or the decision you were faced with, but similar points in ME3 where Shep is faced with decisions (none of them easy) that have deadly and unavoidable consequences for his team. I'd love to see Bioware take a page out of the George RR Martin playbook for ME3, and have that courage to kill some characters that we love.

Simply put: The story isn't going to be that emotionally engaging if it is possible to make it through the entire game with your entire team completely unscathed. It shouldn't be all sunshine and rainbows. Death should be an unavoidable reality for Shep, like it was on Virmire.
 
I know some will argue that squad mate deaths  should be optional like ME2, but the problem with ME2's suicide mission was that people only die if Shepard makes tactical or strategic blunders. This only serves to undercut Shep as a leader, and as such, makes the story less engaging.

Bump this thead if you also want Bioware to have the stones to kill off some of our squad!

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 20 juin 2011 - 10:08 .

[Sailears]

I'm not sure about the forced deaths (either one squad member or another), but to me Virmire has the best structure out of all the missions in both games.

Maybe instead squad deaths could depend on how well you as Shepard are able to handle the combat, and/or complete mission segments?

[nhsk]

Been arguing for exactly that before, it is the grand finale, the largest and deadliest war in all of the universe and its history, so ye, squaddie deaths would be nice and more fitting for the story and emotionally engaging (at least the first time ) - Albeit I still want the choice of squad member A or B like on Virmire.

I will go a very very long way to save Garrus on all my sheps

Curunen wrote...

I'm not sure about the forced deaths
(either one squad member or another), but to me Virmire has the best
structure out of all the missions in both games.

Maybe instead
squad deaths could depend on how well you as Shepard are able to handle
the combat, and/or complete mission segments?

No thanks to that, I don't want to lose a squad member because certain classes have to take it slower than others - It shouldn't be optional, and if your idea was the case you would just force a reload which would be aggrevating to certain classes.

Modifié par nhsk, 20 juin 2011 - 10:16 .

[Malanek]

Geth or Quarians. Legion or Tali.

[hotdogbsg]

No forced deaths please.

I love the idea of mistakes or certain decisions you make resulting in the loss of a squad
member(s) but not an unavoidable thing like Virmire.

[hotdogbsg]

Double post! The shame!

Modifié par hotdogbsg, 20 juin 2011 - 10:19 .

[Someone With Mass]

Or even better. Don't rip off Virmire and the suicide mission in such a uninspired way.

[hexaligned]

Curunen wrote...

I'm not sure about the forced deaths (either one squad member or another), but to me Virmire has the best structure out of all the missions in both games.

Maybe instead squad deaths could depend on how well you as Shepard are able to handle the combat, and/or complete mission segments?

Insanity mode really should have perma squad mate death, agreed.  Story wise? Sure why not, I hate settings where the characters are immune to death, it takes all suspence out of it.  They should go the Martin route and just kill off story characters randomly if you F something up.

[hexaligned]

*double post*

Modifié par relhart, 21 juin 2011 - 09:10 .

[BigBody26]

I remember reading in the first Game Informer that you while in the first games you had to choose between squad members and could lose a squad member if you made the wrong choices, but that in ME3 you will have to make choices that may cause the death of entire civilizations. That could definitely cause you to think through your decisions.

I do like the idea of possibly losing squad members, and not just on the final mission either. I would like to be confronted with those choices at times when I may not be expecting it.

[rft]

I guess you could have anothere "Virmire type desision" but actually make it about charactars we care about. Ashley and Kaiden were probably the most boaring charactars in Mass Effect in my opinion. But thats just my opinion and a very contreversal one at that. Maybe between charactars that most people love like Garrus and Wrex.

[Siansonea]

I support the idea of another Virmire, but it should be much less obvious that you're about to send someone off to their death. Honestly, it would be awesome if there was an unavoidable death somewhere in the game—but the person who dies is selected completely at random. Even your LI is not safe. That would REALLY have emotional weight.

Perhaps it could happen during a relatively ordinary mission in the middle of the game, and one of your squad mates dies during the mission. Death is pretty senseless like that in the real world, people get taken out at random times by random stuff. Sort of like Tara's death in Buffy The Vampire Slayer. Or Joyce Summers'. That would definitely ratchet up the tension in the game, something that was missing in my ME2 playthroughs after the first one.

[Knight of Dane]

I don't really like unavoidable deaths, Virmire wasn't so bad as i really didn't care much for either character in question, i didn't dislike them, and it still felt sad, but i wouldn't want to face the same desition if it was one of the longterm Characters or Liara (mostly because i love Liara, and partly because i would think it would be stupid to have Garrus and/or Tali die even if they survived the Omega 4 relay and suicide mission)

But let it be an option, sure, then players can rpg all they like.

[CajNatalie]

I support the abolition of sunshine and rainbows.

Someone - a main squadmate - needs to die considering how much crap the Galaxy is going through. Maybe add more flexibility than a simple A or B choice, though.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 20 juin 2011 - 10:28 .

[Aedan_Cousland]

hotdogbsg wrote...

No forced deaths please.

I love the idea of mistakes or certain decisions you make resulting in the loss of a squad
member(s) but not an unavoidable thing like Virmire.

The problem with linking squadmate deaths to player performance however, is that it essentially renders squad mate deaths as pointless. It isn't that emotionally engaging, because they died only because Shep blundered or was too slow or didn't prepare adequately.

For those deaths to have some sort of emotional impact on the player, they have to die even when he (the player/Shepard) does everything right.

A perfect run in ME3 should be a playthrough where you suffered the minimum amount of casualties possible, but casualties themselves should be unavoidable. I wouldn't be for scripted deaths of certain characters, but some characters should die based on decisions you make.

[TexasToast712]

Whats with you emo death loving kids?

[shadowreflexion]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...


Bump this thead if you also want Bioware to have the stones to kill off some of our squad!

I don't have the heart to do another Virmire, I'm too emotionally involved and no that's not a joke. I'm already prepared to accept that some team members won't make it but for me to choose again? Whew. That squad has become friends. I get the emotional impact of it but I'm sure there will be plenty of those scenarios throughout the game. If it came down to my sacrifice or a squad member, what's that old saying? "No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friends."

I know it's a game but damn another BW curve ball? I couldn't take it. I suppose if it came down to it I would have to choose. And if it does, I'll go forth to battle with a heavy heart.

[CheeseEnchilada]

While I'm not sure I want unavoidable deaths for specific people or a rehash of Virmire, I do think the stakes need to be higher, and we're going to lose people. A 'no one left behind' ending where you manage to keep your team alive should be available--just very difficult to achieve. We're going to be losing millions of people either way, and possibly (probably) some dear NPCs. Virmire was heart-wrenching and powerful because we hadn't seen it before. If we see the same scenario two games later with two popular characters, it's less emotional and more frustrating.

If they manage to give us a moment where Shepard has to send a squadmate to certain death and gets to choose who, that could be a good middle-of-the-road option if they pulled it off. You maintain some control while there's still a death involved. I'd prefer this to "Garrus and Tali! Pick one!" when we've already seen that, and might even be seeing it with whole races. In the end though, I'd prefer a chance to save your squad, if no one else.

[Lunatic LK47]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

The problem with linking squadmate deaths to player performance however, is that it essentially renders squad mate deaths as pointless. It isn't that emotionally engaging, because they died only because Shep blundered or was too slow or didn't prepare adequately.

For those deaths to have some sort of emotional impact on the player, they have to die even when he (the player/Shepard) does everything right.

A perfect run in ME3 should be a playthrough where you suffered the minimum amount of casualties possible, but casualties themselves should be unavoidable. I wouldn't be for scripted deaths of certain characters, but some characters should die based on decisions you make.

Uh, the same could be said for "Why bother investing in a character if they'll be permanently gone from your squad regardless of player control?" As much as I loved Bastila in KOTOR 1,  I found her disappearance to be bull**** on all levels, especially if I've kicked Malak's ass for three rounds on the Leviathan.

[CajNatalie]

What's with all the people who 'can't take it'?
Don't have the stomach for losing a fictional character who'll be there the next time you start a new game?

This is... unsettling.
Toughen up, people.

The point is that in ME3, all hell breaks loose. It's just too idealistic to have a sunshine and bunnies 'everybody lives' outcome.
The so-called Suicide Mission of Mass Effect 2 isn't even worthy of the title.

[Seeker Sparrow]

CajNatalie wrote...

Someone - a main squadmate - needs to die considering how much crap the Galaxy is going through. Maybe add more flexibility than a simple A or B choice, though.

I nominate Vega or Tali.

[hexaligned]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Whats with you emo death loving kids?

I'm just not a fan of Mary Sue's, or hacky writing in general.  People die, characters in "good" fiction should also die, or at least you need to present an atmosphere where their death seems possible.

[Eurhetemec]

I was thinking you meant "another mission that was way better paced, with better flow, and better general gameplay than most of the rest of the game" lol, because that's how I think of Virmire.

But yes, I'd be fairly happy to see that, so long as it makes sense. The problem with Virmire is that the situation was somewhat artificial. I don't want to see them just chuck more "One of these guys dies! You choose!" situations at us. You say that making it so people die if Shepard screws up is bad, but I would equally say that the story arbitrarily deciding that X character must die is just as bad, if not actually worse.

What I do think is that getting everyone through the game alive, and getting the best win conditions should be virtually impossible on a first play-through without a detailed guide in front of you. I was genuinely pissed-off when, on my first play-through of ME2, with no guides, no nothing (I didn't even know who the LIs were! Garrus was sure a shock!), I got every out alive. I was actually hoping I'd lose some people. But it was so bloody obvious how to keep them alive.

Maybe the best situation would be if you had a few places where you could either leave someone to die, or where someone would die, if you wanted the best win condition for that area. For example, you're evacuating the Turian government or what-have-you, and maybe Garrus is sniping and holding back the tide of enemies. You can either get him on board in time, and potentially lose some of the Turian government guys, or you can leave him behind and make a clean take-off.

Bad example probably, but I'd prefer deaths to not be "Either Garrus or Tali MUST DIE!"-type nonsense, and to actually come from, y'know, people trying to be heroic, to do the right thing.

[nhsk]

I could easily see someone like Garrus saying "Screw you Shepard, I'm not falling back untill these civilians are safe and evacuated" and he then dies and the civilians die. Unless you send some as backup to his position, weakening your own team for the current mission causing the the last squadmember to die.. As you don't have a flank covered under some "reprogramming of certain stuff or whatever" sequence - Just an example, it could of course be much more complex but seriously people need to start dying, its not sunshine and rainbows