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[Had-to-say]

As a video game Mass Effect is excellent and doing historical things. It is considered by many to be the best game this generation. But...

What has Mass Effect contributed new and original to the realm of Sci- Fi?

What do you think that Mass Effect could do to further seperate itself from its Sci-Fi peers?

Is Mass Effect breaking any new ground in Sci-Fi storytelling?  What are your hopes for the future of the franchise in its approach to Sci-Fi storytelling?

This is not a game bashing thread I just want to see where you think Bioware could push the Sci- Fi envelope.

Modifié par Had-to-say, 21 juin 2011 - 12:44 .

[Sailears]

Hmm now that you bring it up,
I think the most alluring thing about Mass Effect is because it is decent sci-fi entertainment in a time when there isn't much in the way of sc-fi (specifically space related) either in film, tv or video games.

If it wasn't sci-fi set in space, I would probably have a lot less interest in it (considering I've not yet been tempted to play dragon age for instance).

[Malanek]

Had-to-say wrote...
What do you think that Mass Effect could do to further seperate itself from its peers the competition?

Is Mass Effect breaking any new ground in Sci-Fi storytelling?  What are your hopes for the future of the franchise in its approach to storytelling?

To bring a more realism to genre. I'm not talking about technology or even biology (the asari have already ruined that) but rather human motivations. Lust, greed, selflessness, love, alliances, corruption.... etc. Colonies and worlds should be based on a solid economic basis.

[Lunatic LK47]

Curunen wrote...

Hmm now that you bring it up,
I think the most alluring thing about Mass Effect is because it is decent sci-fi entertainment in a time when there isn't much in the way of sc-fi (specifically space related) either in film, tv or video games.

If it wasn't sci-fi set in space, I would probably have a lot less interest in it (considering I've not yet been tempted to play dragon age for instance).

Feel the same way. From my take on the subject in general, I feel that Mass Effect managed to do a proper military science fiction story with emotionally engaging characters (No, I'm not trying to copy Ray Muzyka here) with some references to today's world. It actually tries to cover the exotic races under a more human light instead of the arbritray "alien races are these archetypes to the max" (i.e. Klingons are always war-mongers, Vulcans are always emotionally detached)

[Eurhetemec]

ME has no peers, which is both a merit for ME, and shows something unfortunate about the game industry in general.

As for contribution to SF, it's contributed largely in a resurrection of science-fiction as an actual gaming environment. Not science fantasy. Not "science fiction" where there's no actual science, just "scientific-style" stuff, and not just as a vague, unimportant background, but actual SF which has a couple of hyperscience principles, and then goes with real science from there. That's something we've not seen much in games, movies, or TV for a long while. Stargate was the one show keeping that alive on TV.

As for "new and original", it's really just reconstructed various SF tropes, and deconstructed others. ME doesn't seek to be stunningly new - indeed, you'd be doomed trying to do that and make a good game at the same time (a book maybe), I would suggest. Most people would spend most of the game trying to figure out what was going on. Instead ME takes all sorts of standard SF stuff and look at it again. In many ways, it takes what Babylon 5 was doing - creating an SF universe and then making it more realistic - right down to the political squabbling and greed and so on, and then goes a whole lot further with it. The whole situation with the Krogan is an engaging moral dilemma worthy of virtually any SF writer, and far beyond the sort of thing we normally see in TV and movies, for example. It's complex and not black & white, and that's something that ME has focused on. That's something I hope it never loses, too.

As noted, there are no "peers" to separate itself from. No comparable SF CRPGs exist. No fantasy CRPG is particularly similar.

Story-telling-wise, the main breakthrough is in quality and intensity, rather than anything "original". I don't think ME has done anything that hasn't been done before - it's just done it far better. I hope it continues to achieve this standard of storytelling.

Finally I think ME's visual design, sound design, and music are so far ahead of other SF-ish game franchises and even TV franchises that it's absolutely amazing. ME has a much stronger and more consistent "look" than either Star Trek or Stargate (let alone B5 or the like), with only Star Wars being arguably ahead (through sheer volume), This is a true achievement. Out of nowhere, BioWare have pulled a fully-formed SF franchise, which looks so distinctive and so strong. The music is also certainly ahead of Stargate, and I would argue, comparable with any major SF franchise.

Comparing to other "SF" games like Borderlands or the Gears of War series or even the Halo series, they all look absolutely terrible by comparison. All of them have narrow looks, utterly reliant on cliches and frequently on, sad, overworn, ripped-off of visual design. Halo's visual design was seemingly impressive, but compared to ME, it's really not at all impressive, and seems far more cliche-ridden and less "classic" than ME's design.

[Sailears]

Eurhetemec wrote...

ME has no peers, which is both a merit for ME, and shows something unfortunate about the game industry in general.
<snip>

In a nutshell that's just it.

But I imagine (or rather hope) its success might stimulate a rebirth of sci-fi entertainment.

[Paulinius]

In lieu of writing an essay: I'll say one of the key points of the ME series is that it is emotionally engaging. I've put in thousands of hours in games from Half-Life 1&2, the Total War series, Counter-Strike, TFC & TF2, Natural Selection, et cetera and they were good games. But what sets ME apart is that it creates a character you can relate to and have a connection to. Plus it sets up a universe and other characters that you care about as well. Plus there is variety to the mix as you can see with people who love Tali and the Quarians and hate the Geth to those that love Legion and the Geth and hate the Quarians; and everything in between.

[Had-to-say]

@Eurhetemec and all others, do you think it would be wise for Mass Effect to venture beyond the current established boundaries of science in attempts to explain existence?

I have often wondered what the leading minds in the fictional Mass Effect universe believe happened before the Big Bang. 21st century has its theories but I wonder what a Salarian genius would think?

Would you like for Bioware to establish boundaries on what is known in the Mass Effect universe? What is Mass Effect's epistemological edge of knowledge?

I think the fans of the game can handle a little heavier fiction that deals with the nature of the observable and the unobservable.

What do fans think of the Metaphysical in Mass Effect?

Can Mass Effect make a honest stab in the dark on the unknown?

Modifié par Had-to-say, 21 juin 2011 - 12:14 .

[onelifecrisis]

I started writing a wall of text, then deleted it. OP is too vague. Need something more specific lest I write an opus on everything I think could be improved.

Anyway, here's a very compressed version of what I wrote:
Bioware, you need to leave behind your SW- and RPG-roots and move on. Please stop putting the Light Side and Dark Side of The Force into everything you make. Stop putting ridiculous same-room fetch quests and immersion-breaking time-sinks in your games. These things are holding you back from the great things that your games prove you could be doing. That is all.

[CannonO]

 Well the first game was more unique to me because it had a bold, clean, and pristine view of the future. The environment of beauty took a front seat to its troubles, unlike many other scifis. I loved its sleek and beautiful approach in ME1.

[Had-to-say]

onelifecrisis wrote...

I started writing a wall of text, then deleted it. OP is too vague. Need something more specific lest I write an opus on everything I think could be improved.

Anyway, here's a very compressed version of what I wrote:
Bioware, you need to leave behind your SW- and RPG-roots and move on. Please stop putting the Light Side and Dark Side of The Force into everything you make. Stop putting ridiculous same-room fetch quests and immersion-breaking time-sinks in your games. These things are holding you back from the great things that your games prove you could be doing. That is all.

Sorry I had a very hard time getting to the heart of my question. 

[Whatever42]

Ground breaking? No. They've done no one thing that hasn't been done. However, they've put together a number of elements in unique ways and they've done it very well. Bioware has a very distinctive style and they continually build on it.

As far as science-fiction: I think they've built as deep a universe as we've seen since the extended universe in Star Wars. Normally in science fiction, you get a setting just large enough for a movie or a couple books. Rarely do you get something as deep as the ME universe. It's not exactly revolutionary either but its not something often done and its great to see.

[Malanek]

Had-to-say wrote...

@Eurhetemec and all others, do you think it would be wise for Mass Effect to venture beyond the current established boundaries of science in attempts to explain existence?

I have often wondered what the leading minds in the fictional Mass Effect universe believe happened before the Big Bang. 21st century has its theories but I wonder what a Salarian genius would think?

Would you like for Bioware to establish boundaries on what is known in the Mass Effect universe? What is Mass Effect's epistemological edge of knowledge?

I think the fans of the game can handle a little heavier fiction that deals with the nature of the observable and the unobservable.

What do fans think of the Metaphysical in Mass Effect?

Can Mass Effect make a honest stab in the dark on the unknown?

The creation of the universe and'/or the big bang could be tied in with what they are doing in ME with the Reapers. I mean too an extent with what we already know about the cycles there is already a degree of the metaphysical.

[onelifecrisis]

Had-to-say wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

I started writing a wall of text, then deleted it. OP is too vague. Need something more specific lest I write an opus on everything I think could be improved.

Anyway, here's a very compressed version of what I wrote:
Bioware, you need to leave behind your SW- and RPG-roots and move on. Please stop putting the Light Side and Dark Side of The Force into everything you make. Stop putting ridiculous same-room fetch quests and immersion-breaking time-sinks in your games. These things are holding you back from the great things that your games prove you could be doing. That is all.

Sorry I had a very hard time getting to the heart of my question. 

Having just re-read your OP I think I got the wrong end of the stick. Nevertheless, my comment about The Force still stands. I really think BW need to drop that ball and chain before they can start telling really great stories.

[Had-to-say]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Ground breaking? No. They've done no one thing that hasn't been done. However, they've put together a number of elements in unique ways and they've done it very well. Bioware has a very distinctive style and they continually build on it.

As far as science-fiction: I think they've built as deep a universe as we've seen since the extended universe in Star Wars. Normally in science fiction, you get a setting just large enough for a movie or a couple books. Rarely do you get something as deep as the ME universe. It's not exactly revolutionary either but its not something often done and its great to see.

@Whatever  Are they missing an oppurtunity to venture way out front on the bleeding edge on Sci-Fi?  It takes courage to go out there.

[Had-to-say]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Had-to-say wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

I started writing a wall of text, then deleted it. OP is too vague. Need something more specific lest I write an opus on everything I think could be improved.

Anyway, here's a very compressed version of what I wrote:
Bioware, you need to leave behind your SW- and RPG-roots and move on. Please stop putting the Light Side and Dark Side of The Force into everything you make. Stop putting ridiculous same-room fetch quests and immersion-breaking time-sinks in your games. These things are holding you back from the great things that your games prove you could be doing. That is all.

Sorry I had a very hard time getting to the heart of my question. 

Having just re-read your OP I think I got the wrong end of the stick. Nevertheless, my comment about The Force still stands. I really think BW need to drop that ball and chain before they can start telling really great stories.

It is all my fault not yours.  I can't be concise to save my life.

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

Mass Effect 2 isn't original, nor is it the best that Sci-Fi (in games or any medium) has to offer. It is, however, good. It has clever re/deconstruction, and is good storytelling.

Modifié par DaveExclamationMarkYognaut, 21 juin 2011 - 01:06 .

[onelifecrisis]

Had-to-say wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Had-to-say wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

I started writing a wall of text, then deleted it. OP is too vague. Need something more specific lest I write an opus on everything I think could be improved.

Anyway, here's a very compressed version of what I wrote:
Bioware, you need to leave behind your SW- and RPG-roots and move on. Please stop putting the Light Side and Dark Side of The Force into everything you make. Stop putting ridiculous same-room fetch quests and immersion-breaking time-sinks in your games. These things are holding you back from the great things that your games prove you could be doing. That is all.

Sorry I had a very hard time getting to the heart of my question. 

Having just re-read your OP I think I got the wrong end of the stick. Nevertheless, my comment about The Force still stands. I really think BW need to drop that ball and chain before they can start telling really great stories.

It is all my fault not yours.  I can't be concise to save my life.

Very gracious of you. 

[Had-to-say]

@DaveExclamationMarkYognaut I agree the game isn't all that original. But can it add a direction that will make it unique? I think the franchise has a potential to go in an original unforgettable direction.

Modifié par Had-to-say, 21 juin 2011 - 01:57 .

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

Had-to-say wrote...

@DaveExclamationMarkYognaut I agree the game isn't all that original but can it add a direction that will make it unique? I think the franchise has a potential to go in original unforgettable direction. Would this elevate it amongst its peers?

Well, who knows, right? If they have an innovative narrative structure in ME3, that could definitely make it unique. I just wouldn't expect something too innovative at the 11th hour.

[Whatever42]

Make it better? Well, deeper story. Deeper relationships. Deeper exploration of issues. Even better cinematic experience with more seemless gameplay to cutscene transitions.

Ultimately, as a sci-fi experience (as opposed to a game experience), it will be all about the story and characters. The ME series is an homage to 1980s sci-fi. To really contribute to science fiction, I think the author needs to offer a new take on issues, to go deeper, not broader.

Imagine focusing only on the Geth-Quarian conflict, with fewer characters, adding more to the debate than what we got from Battlestar Galactica, with deeper, branching paths and more involved relationships with the characters but keeping the great gameplay and cinematic experience.

I guess what I'm getting at is comparing BG2 to Torment. Both awesome games but while BG2 re-invigorated the genre and was the bigger game, Torment was something special.

[onelifecrisis]

Had-to-say wrote...

@Eurhetemec and all others, do you think it would be wise for Mass Effect to venture beyond the current established boundaries of science in attempts to explain existence?

I have often wondered what the leading minds in the fictional Mass Effect universe believe happened before the Big Bang. 21st century has its theories but I wonder what a Salarian genius would think?

Would you like for Bioware to establish boundaries on what is known in the Mass Effect universe? What is Mass Effect's epistemological edge of knowledge?

I think the fans of the game can handle a little heavier fiction that deals with the nature of the observable and the unobservable.

What do fans think of the Metaphysical in Mass Effect?

Can Mass Effect make a honest stab in the dark on the unknown?

These are the sort of things you might look for in real sci-fi. I hate to be "that guy" but ME isn't sci-fi, it's space opera.

[Repzik]

It's another Knights Of the Old Republic.

Except there's more than one (by Bioware). And you get to carry on your character. And it cusses like crazy.

[Had-to-say]

The cycle of extinction is a unique story idea. I think Star Wars is very similar to Mass Effect in some respect but I think Mass Effect has a better fleshed out political history.

The settings are similar, but Mass Effect has its own story. Mass Effect has its own problems and conflicts that are very unique to its universe.

[sbvera13]

Eurhetemec wrote...

ME has no peers, which is both a merit for ME, and shows something unfortunate about the game industry in general.
...
As for "new and original", it's really just reconstructed various SF tropes, and deconstructed others.
...
Story-telling-wise, the main breakthrough is in quality and intensity, rather than anything "original". I don't think ME has done anything that hasn't been done before - it's just done it far better. I hope it continues to achieve this standard of storytelling.

All well said.

ME has taken a very wide artistic vision, and integrated many separate elements (music, art, story, voice acting, environment, background data) into a seamless world that your imagination can fall into.  It's very, very easy to get lost in the ME world, even though the game world itself is not that large and far more linear than it claims to be.  Only a handful of sci-fi franchises (much less ANY fictional world) do this as easily and throughly as ME1* did.  That's remarkable.

*- I single out ME1 because the design philosophy changed significantly by the second game.  It lost many of it's immersive qualities to gameplay streamlining and doesn't stand out like the original.