261 réponses à ce sujet

[elearon1]

Raiders Fan 223 wrote...

I could have sworn that asari only have one gender, therefore its neither gay or straight when maleshep/femshep romance Liara.

The problem here is: while romancing Shepard does not make Liara gay or bi, romancing a member of a race which is entirely female gendered *does* make FemShep either gay or bi.  Liara looks and behaves a lot like a human female - if Femshep romances Liara she is stating that she finds this kind of appearance and personality attractive - thus she is probably gay or bi.  

(there is the possibility that, among humans, Femshep only dates very effeminite crossdressing males ... but somehow I see that as a less likely answer)

[King Zeel]

IsaacShep wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
I disagree. The characters have been established.

Their attraction to opposite gender was established. Until you have an option to hit on them and get turned down or if they say they're exclusively straight themselves, their lack of attraction to anyone (not necessarily even Shep) of the same gender has not been established especially in the case of characters who were planned to have s/s romance (Ashley, Kaidan).

King Zeel wrote...
Ashley is not gay because, ding dong, she showed no interest in Female shepard.

Same thing for Tali.

So Tali was asexual in ME1 since she didn't show any interest in neither ManShep or FemShep? Same logic. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie]

Sure, that logic is fine. Hell, use it-oh wait, her sexuality is broadcasted in me2 for all to see. Shame about that, huh?

[the_one_54321]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...
You know what, I have the perfect solution. Let's nuke all the love interests... than we can stop worrying about all this icky love stuff.

I would totally be cool with that. LI was interesting, but doomed to end up broken with the evolution of the games since it was first implimented with Girl/Guy/Bisexual Alien Stripper.

I do find it sat that people only want this now that bisexuality is being implimented,  it makes me wonder if perhaps their is more to it than the fear of "Retcon."  I mean, seriously...  what possibly reason would every love interest in the game have to be in the same location?  That seems like a big retcon to me...

And seriously, wtf was up with Lirara to begin with? Not that there's anything wrong with her personality, but the introduction of a characer that "swings both ways" is an alien that comes from a race of ALL-SEXY-FEMALES that often take jobs as exotic dancers in their youth? 

[ipgd]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

That seems like a big retcon to me...

oh my god you are killing me




THIS WORD USED TO MEAN SOMETHING. STOP.

[Darthnemesis2]

King Zeel wrote...

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

Montezuma IV wrote...
So? People assume someone is straight perfectly well.

Well that's the way the math works.

Except where it doesn't. Just because you assume someone to be straight doesn't make him (or her) so. I really don't see why this is such a hard concept to grasp...

Honestly, these arguments are foolish and it just goes to show how far these fans will go to defend their silly s/s fantasies.
Yes, the math does work that way. I heard somewhere that only 10% of people are gay. I'm not much of a statistics guy but I'm willing to put a little faith in data collection here.
 
Third, it's not an assumption, OBVIOUSLY ashley is straight, she only screwed male shepard.

I paraphrase myself here: I am gay. Most people I know (those who I haven't explicitly told that I am gay) assume that I am straight because I don't talk about having sex with guys. They would be wrong. Some thing applies to the game.

[the_one_54321]

ipgd wrote...
THIS WORD USED TO MEAN SOMETHING. STOP.

A change does not require an earlier explicit statement to the contrary to qualify as a retcon. The status quo can be implicit rather than strict.

[AngelicMachinery]

King Zeel wrote...


Honestly, these arguments are foolish and it just goes to show how far these fans will go to defend their silly s/s fantasies.
Yes, the math does work that way. I heard somewhere that only 10% of people are gay. I'm not much of a statistics guy but I'm willing to put a little faith in data collection here.
 
Third, it's not an assumption, OBVIOUSLY ashley is straight, she only screwed male shepard.

Statistics is a tricky thing,  the population of gay people may be ten percent it may be higher.  A good deal of people are still in the closet as it were for fear of rejection from their familial unit.  This isn't the only problem either,  people who play video games on average are in their teens to mid twenties.  You will find a higher number of homosexual males in this age group because we''ll were moving to the point where such distinctions are losing their bite.  Homosexuality isn't something that is hidden anymore and your finding that the youth of today are more willing to be open about themselves. 

[KawaiiKatie]

King Zeel wrote...

Montezuma IV wrote...


Not much of one. Feelings can develop over time. I used to like
girls. Now I strictly prefer boys. It happens. It's a stretch put it's
passable and completely logical. And I like people just because they
have great personalities. It can be sexy.

Let me get this straight.(pun) you use to like girls but now you like boys? Your sexual feelings don't just turn off. Either you never liked girls to begin with or you are fooling yourself. It's probably both. 

Society shows one way as "right" and natural, its only normal that you THINK you have those feelings. Then bam you realize you don't. Hell, that happened to me and ALL my ex-girlfriends.

Yes, I don't believe you turn "gay". though I do acknowledge that some enviromental forces can influence your sexual orientation. Then again, the way I view sexuality is more of a scale consisting of 7 notches. 1 being straight, 7 being gay. 3, in middle

Do I really have to trot out the example of Willow from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, again?

...I do? ....great.

Willow was genuinely interested in boys when the series started. Everyone fell in love with her as the shy, bookish girl with her cute little crushes. She had long-standing feelings for Xander and a physical relationship with Ox, both males, but eventually she grew out of it. Her character evolved. Sexualities can and do change. It's possible. It doesn't mean that Willow was "fooling" herself when she has genuine feelings for Ox and Xander, and it doesn' tmean that she was "retconned" when she dicovered that she actually prefers females. It just mean tthat he character changed and grew with the story, and everyone loved her for it. She became a proud lesbian and a powerful character, but she wasn't "retconned." She merely had character development that involved her sexuality. This can happen believably within a story, and I trust that if Bioware did the same to an existing character, it would be believable, and show immense respect for the established continuity.

[King Zeel]

Montezuma IV wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Montezuma IV wrote...
Uh....yeah duh it'd be cool. But it's also completely logical and in no way messing UP a story. As if a persons sexuality mattered that much.

Read Golden Owl's post above.

I don't see the relation....but whatever "relation" there is what I said is what I said.

@King Zeel You are not a scientest but a much higher possibliity shows that sexuality can develop. And degrees of homosexuality are possible so I don't get what you are saying, bud.

I already acknowledged that enviroment can INFLUENCE your sexuality. I don't think you can develop mid-life into a whole other spectrum. When has that ever happened? other than men denying their sexuality? 

[AngelicMachinery]

ipgd wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

That seems like a big retcon to me...

oh my god you are killing me




THIS WORD USED TO MEAN SOMETHING. STOP.

Retcon, IMMERSION,  none of these words mean anything anymore.  People use them when they want to QQ,   I use them... well,  mostly to make them sound absurd.

[King Zeel]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

King Zeel wrote...

Montezuma IV wrote...


Not much of one. Feelings can develop over time. I used to like
girls. Now I strictly prefer boys. It happens. It's a stretch put it's
passable and completely logical. And I like people just because they
have great personalities. It can be sexy.

Let me get this straight.(pun) you use to like girls but now you like boys? Your sexual feelings don't just turn off. Either you never liked girls to begin with or you are fooling yourself. It's probably both. 

Society shows one way as "right" and natural, its only normal that you THINK you have those feelings. Then bam you realize you don't. Hell, that happened to me and ALL my ex-girlfriends.

Yes, I don't believe you turn "gay". though I do acknowledge that some enviromental forces can influence your sexual orientation. Then again, the way I view sexuality is more of a scale consisting of 7 notches. 1 being straight, 7 being gay. 3, in middle

Do I really have to trot out the example of Willow from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, again?

...I do? ....great.

Willow was genuinely interested in boys when the series started. Everyone fell in love with her as the shy, bookish girl with her cute little crushes. She had long-standing feelings for Xander and a physical relationship with Ox, both males, but eventually she grew out of it. Her character evolved. Sexualities can and do change. It's possible. It doesn't mean that Willow was "fooling" herself when she has genuine feelings for Ox and Xander, and it doesn' tmean that she was "retconned" when she dicovered that she actually prefers females. It just mean tthat he character changed and grew with the story, and everyone loved her for it. She became a proud lesbian and a powerful character, but she wasn't "retconned." She merely had character development that involved her sexuality. This can happen believably within a story, and I trust that if Bioware did the same to an existing character, it would be believable, and show immense respect for the established continuity.

If you think I'm going to read and rebutt an argument that starts with "Willow from the Buffy the vampire slayer" you've gone and lost your mind, if you need help finding it, look near the joker romance threads.

[the_one_54321]

KawaiiKatie wrote...
Do I really have to trot out the example of Willow from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, again?

...I do? ....great.

If they actually went with a running plot where a character goes through this presumed process of changing sexuality, then your example would hold water. As the game stands, your example does not apply.

[AngelicMachinery]

the_one_54321 wrote...

KawaiiKatie wrote...
Do I really have to trot out the example of Willow from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, again?

...I do? ....great.

If they actually went with a running plot where a character goes through this presumed process of changing sexuality, then your example would hold water. As the game stands, your example does not apply.

Ahah!  So!  If the VS received some sort of plot that made them TEH GAIS it would be fine than?

[King Zeel]

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

King Zeel wrote...

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

Montezuma IV wrote...
So? People assume someone is straight perfectly well.

Well that's the way the math works.

Except where it doesn't. Just because you assume someone to be straight doesn't make him (or her) so. I really don't see why this is such a hard concept to grasp...

Honestly, these arguments are foolish and it just goes to show how far these fans will go to defend their silly s/s fantasies.
Yes, the math does work that way. I heard somewhere that only 10% of people are gay. I'm not much of a statistics guy but I'm willing to put a little faith in data collection here.
 
Third, it's not an assumption, OBVIOUSLY ashley is straight, she only screwed male shepard.

I paraphrase myself here: I am gay. Most people I know (those who I haven't explicitly told that I am gay) assume that I am straight because I don't talk about having sex with guys. They would be wrong. Some thing applies to the game.

So you've brought up an exception and think thats dissaproves anything? Couldn't i just say, well, I'm straight and people assume I'm straight so all is well? Doesn't that make your argument completely flawed?

not that you could even make the same comparison. If your friends saw you making out with guys would they still assume you were straight? Ashley sleeps with Shepard. It's not an assumption anymore when we have proof.

[ipgd]

the_one_54321 wrote...

ipgd wrote...
THIS WORD USED TO MEAN SOMETHING. STOP.

A change does not require an earlier explicit statement to the contrary to qualify as a retcon. The status quo can be implicit rather than strict.

An assumption is still an assumption no matter how likely that assumption is. If nothing is actively contradicted and replaced as if the original event never happened, it is not a retcon, end of story. You can call it an "unbelievable change" if you want, but it is not a god damn retcon.

Modifié par ipgd, 21 juin 2011 - 06:27 .

[shepskisaac]

King Zeel wrote...
Sure, that logic is fine. Hell, use it-oh wait, her sexuality is broadcasted in me2 for all to see. Shame about that, huh?

So will Ashley's attraction to women get broadcasted in ME3

[AtreiyaN7]

This is ridiculous. All you have to do is say no to someone who hits on you if you're not interested in him/her. For the love of...

[KawaiiKatie]

King Zeel wrote...

If you think I'm going to read and rebutt an argument that starts with "Willow from the Buffy the vampire slayer" you've gone and lost your mind, if you need help finding it, look near the joker romance threads.

Name an example of a character whose sexuality was retconned suddenly and with no respect for the original continuity.

Now, I'm going to name an example of a character whose sexuality was explored and changed within the existing canon and did so with care and consideration from the writing team. Her name was Willow Rosenberg.

My point is that sexualities can completely evolve over the course of a story, and I can provide examples.

[King Zeel]

IsaacShep wrote...

King Zeel wrote...
Sure, that logic is fine. Hell, use it-oh wait, her sexuality is broadcasted in me2 for all to see. Shame about that, huh?

So will Ashley's attraction to women get broadcasted in ME3

Can't you guys just be satisfied with the plethora of fanfics. some of them are good (I think?)

[the_one_54321]

ipgd wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

ipgd wrote...
THIS WORD USED TO MEAN SOMETHING. STOP.

A change does not require an earlier explicit statement to the contrary to qualify as a retcon. The status quo can be implicit rather than strict.

An assumption is still an assumption no matter how likely that assumption is. If nothing is actively contradicted and replaced as if the original event never happened, it is not a retcon, end of story. You can call it an "unbelievable change" if you want, but it is not a god damn retcon.

The only evidence that exists is evidence that the change is not accurate. The only story elements that are actually presented by the writers suggest that the change is indeed a change. That qualifies a retcon.

Even if you claim a lack of explicit strict evidence of a retcon, it can still be argued that to approach a story element in such a way opens all kinds of doors to potential plot problems and hamfisted story structures which will ultimately detract from the believability/consistency of the game.

[King Zeel]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

King Zeel wrote...

If you think I'm going to read and rebutt an argument that starts with "Willow from the Buffy the vampire slayer" you've gone and lost your mind, if you need help finding it, look near the joker romance threads.

Name an example of a character whose sexuality was retconned suddenly and with no respect for the original continuity.

Now, I'm going to name an example of a character whose sexuality was explored and changed within the existing canon and did so with care and consideration from the writing team. Her name was Willow Rosenberg.

My point is that sexualities can completely evolve over the course of a story, and I can provide examples.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer was a shtty ass show with awful characters, a silly ass plot and redundant action scenes.

Modifié par King Zeel, 21 juin 2011 - 06:30 .