261 réponses à ce sujet

[the_one_54321]

Montezuma IV wrote...
Really....really.....REALLY NO REALLY.....I mean really....really

No, I don't really believe they are going to dress Garus in bright pink and give him a lisp. That was hyperbole. But making other radical changes to a character, I wouldn't be surprised.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 21 juin 2011 - 07:01 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Montezuma IV wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...
I don't see a retcon,  as it seems like such a small thing.  Now, if Garrus suddenly started wearing pink, calling people girlfriend,  spoke with a lisp,  and gained a backstory about his father kicking him out for being gay I would cry retcon.

And who's to say they won't do that since they would be changing his character anyway? Although, the "guess what s/he's bi!" would be a hell of a lot less jarring than a complete change in personality, I wouldn't put it past them at this point. What with the utterly radical changes made to Isabela and Anders.

Really....really.....REALLY NO REALLY.....I mean really....really

Well I guess since people assume that's what's being asked for,  I'll have to start demanding a truly fabulous squad.

[the_one_54321]

AngelicMachinery wrote...
Also, waht Radical changes were made
to isabella?  Outside of a physical redisgn  which everyone got.  Also
the big hit to Anders isn't his bisexuality it is his lack of humor. 
Come on though lets be truthful here,  Anders was just wizard Alistair
with sexual experince.

Massadonious1 wrote...
Isabella was always bi-sexual.

I know Isabela was always bi. The phsyical redesign was not something small. You can't just sideline that and say it doesn't count. They didn't make her "distinctive" as a main character. They made her 100% different in appearnace. Anders was a completely different person from Awakening to DAII. Completely different. There are quotes that show a 180 degree shif tin personal outlook. Specifically with how he would view that [plot spoiler] thing he did at the [place that's a plot spoiler].

[AngelicMachinery]

the_one_54321 wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...
Also, waht Radical changes were made
to isabella?  Outside of a physical redisgn  which everyone got.  Also
the big hit to Anders isn't his bisexuality it is his lack of humor. 
Come on though lets be truthful here,  Anders was just wizard Alistair
with sexual experince.

Massadonious1 wrote...
Isabella was always bi-sexual.

I know Isabela was always bi. The phsyical redesign was not something small. You can't just sideline that and say it doesn't count. They didn't make her "distinctive" as a main character. They made her 100% different in appearnace. Anders was a completely different person from Awakening to DAII. Completely different. There are quotes that show a 180 degree shif tin personal outlook. Specifically with how he would view that [plot spoiler] thing he did at the [place that's a plot spoiler].

Have you seen the characters they attempted to port over from DAO?  Alistair looked horrible,  Zevran looked worse,  and Leliana looked like she had regressed back to the age of eighteen.  A port over of a character using the character creator for her face would have looked TERRIBLE.  It is one of the changes I had no problem with...   unlike the Dark Spawn.

Anders is a bit of a tougher nut to crack,  he did state that he dreamt of settling down with a woman.  Of course none of the ME characters have made similiar statements so it shouldn't be quite so out of the blue.   I will admit I had no problem with bisexual anders though,  but I had a problem with absolutely insane and emotionally clingy anders.

[True Zarken]

Okay I tried reading this thread but it got to a point where I couldn't so I am going to quickly jump in here say my opinion leave then I will be leaving it at that, and I hope my opinion on the matter is a good compromise.

I understand that people want a Gay/Bi love interest. I completely understand and I am a supporter of Gay/Bi love interests whole heartedly I think there are people out there that wish to have their Shepard Gay/Bi should.

However the idea of Tali, Garrus, Miranda, Thane, Jacob or any of the existing characters that are considered straight to become gay makes absolute no sense and making these individuals gay for the sake of a small segment of fan service just seems inappropriate at this point in the franchise in my opinion.

However I am willing to allow new characters to be established as Bi like James Vega. I'll even put my neck out and say I am willing to allow Kaidan and quite possibly Ashely to become Bi love interests as well because I am seeing a lot of love for Kaidan, I am not sure about Ashley Bi fan base but I am fine with the idea of a Bi Ashley.

Is this really such a bad idea? New characters to be established as Bi and maybe Kaidan and Ashley, while leaving say for instance Mass Effect 2 love interests alone? Because in my mind you were on a suicide mission and if Garrus or Tali weren't going to tell my Male and Female Shepards how they feel then when certain death was upon them they are not going to say anything with the Reapers on our door step.

This will quite possibly be lost in the continuing arguement but I hope people will at least read it as a good compromise because in my mind everyone gets what they want.

New Bi love interests, Kaidan and Ashley Bi, while also keeping the straighr orientation of the Mass Effect 2 romances.

Modifié par True Zarken, 21 juin 2011 - 07:14 .

[shepskisaac]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Montezuma IV wrote...
Really....really.....REALLY NO REALLY.....I mean really....really

No, I don't really believe they are going to dress Garus in bright pink and give him a lisp. That was hyperbole. But making other radical changes to a character, I wouldn't be surprised.

Why can't they? Characters have story archs, they don't reveal everything about them at once, there are events that stimulate/cause new information to be revealed, there are reasons why something wasn't revealed (like Kaidan assuming ManShep is straight which is already part of the story). Liara changed alot between ME1 and LOTSB. Why can't a reveal some characters are bisexual be part of their arch? It doesn't contradict their attraction from ME1, only adds. Frankly, bisexuality was planned at the beggining. Comparing it to Liara, do we believe they planned her change before ME1 was released or was it something they just did while writing the sequel?

It's kind of similar with uproar about Ashley's new look. She didn't dress like that in ME1 but why really can't she now? Maybe she had her own reasons not to dress like that. Players expect to know everything about the characters at once, if that was the case there would be no point bringing them back if they had nothing new to say.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 21 juin 2011 - 07:13 .

[Massadonious1]

IMO, in DA:O she looked like some random NPC that no one would give two craps about if she didn't offer the Duelist specialization. She needed a aesthetic re-design in DA2 because she needed to be taken seriously as a main character and as a romance option.

I didn't necessarily agree with how they handled Anders, however, though I thought it was easy enough not to click on the dialogue that reciprocated his advances.

I've been hit on by plenty of gay men IRL, and I find it quite flattering. However, I certainly don't let that change my personal perception of the person in question. They found me attractive, and they spoke their mind.

I certainly wouldn't fault Ashley or Kaidan if they did the same.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 21 juin 2011 - 07:15 .

[KawaiiKatie]

the_one_54321 wrote...

I know Isabela was always bi. The phsyical redesign was not something small. You can't just sideline that and say it doesn't count. They didn't make her "distinctive" as a main character. They made her 100% different in appearnace. Anders was a completely different person from Awakening to DAII. Completely different. There are quotes that show a 180 degree shif tin personal outlook. Specifically with how he would view that [plot spoiler] thing he did at the [place that's a plot spoiler].

Actually, no, Isabela was not changed all that much. The person who designed her original character said as much.

The "original" Isabela had the second-to-darkest skin tone available in the game, and black hair, both of which were made lighter by the red lighting within The Pearl. Yes, her hair was gown out and her eyes (I believe) were lightened to pure gold, but it's not as if Isabela went from one end of the racial spectrum to the other.

And her character remained 100% consistent with the established continuity! She's everything a continuity-abiding fan should want!

And Anders went through a rigorous character development that was explained and explored in length. No, he was not the same person from Awakening, but his change was consistent with the continuity of the Dragon Age universe.

The male Warden's inability to flirt with Anders was not indicative of Anders' sexuality, as we later discovered in DA2. Similarly, manShep's inability to flirt with Kaidan should not preclude Kaidan from same-sex relationships in ME3.

[AngelicMachinery]

True Zarken wrote...


However I am willing to allow new characters to be established as Bi like James Vega. I'll even put my neck out and say I am willing to allow Kaidan and quite possibly Ashely to become Bi love interests as well because I am seeing a lot of love for Kaidan, I am not sure about Ashley Bi fan base but I am fine with the idea of a Bi Ashley

Aww aren't you sweet allowing Gays, Lesbians, and bi people to have a love interest.  You must be the epitome of good will.

[True Zarken]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

True Zarken wrote...


However I am willing to allow new characters to be established as Bi like James Vega. I'll even put my neck out and say I am willing to allow Kaidan and quite possibly Ashely to become Bi love interests as well because I am seeing a lot of love for Kaidan, I am not sure about Ashley Bi fan base but I am fine with the idea of a Bi Ashley

Aww aren't you sweet allowing Gays, Lesbians, and bi people to have a love interest.  You must be the epitome of good will.

I admit it was a poor choice of words because I am lacking sleep and this continued arguement is tiring. But isn't my idea a good compromise? Or are you arguing for the sake of arguing?

[shepskisaac]

Massadonious1 wrote...
I've been hit on by plenty of gay men IRL, and I find it quite flattering. However, I certainly don't let that change my personal perception of the person in question. They found me attractive, and they spoke their mind.

I certainly wouldn't fault Ashley or Kaidan if they did the same.

Chakwas fans FTW

[AngelicMachinery]

True Zarken wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

True Zarken wrote...


However I am willing to allow new characters to be established as Bi like James Vega. I'll even put my neck out and say I am willing to allow Kaidan and quite possibly Ashely to become Bi love interests as well because I am seeing a lot of love for Kaidan, I am not sure about Ashley Bi fan base but I am fine with the idea of a Bi Ashley

Aww aren't you sweet allowing Gays, Lesbians, and bi people to have a love interest.  You must be the epitome of good will.

I admit it was a poor choice of words because I am lacking sleep and this continued arguement is tiring. But isn't my idea a good compromise? Or are you arguing for the sake of arguing?

I think the choice in words deserved the snarky comment,  thats as far as I'm going. 

Though it does seem to be what the majority wants your wording just gets me argumenative.  I'm still not sure what the "Retcon" stuff is about but hey.

Modifié par AngelicMachinery, 21 juin 2011 - 07:19 .

[the_one_54321]

@AngelicMachinery
Don't remind me about Leliana. The fact that she was in the game at all was infuriating.

[KawaiiKatie]

True Zarken wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

True Zarken wrote...


However I am willing to allow new characters to be established as Bi like James Vega. I'll even put my neck out and say I am willing to allow Kaidan and quite possibly Ashely to become Bi love interests as well because I am seeing a lot of love for Kaidan, I am not sure about Ashley Bi fan base but I am fine with the idea of a Bi Ashley

Aww aren't you sweet allowing Gays, Lesbians, and bi people to have a love interest.  You must be the epitome of good will.

I admit it was a poor choice of words because I am lacking sleep and this continued arguement is tiring. But isn't my idea a good compromise? Or are you arguing for the sake of arguing?

Yes, a lot of same-sex supporters are absolutely fine with the idea of Bioware introducing new characters as bisexual or homosexual love-interests. In fact, most of us would be thrilled by it.

However, we take issue when it is said that it would be a horrible "retcon" that would "ruin existing characters" if Kaidan or Ash or anyone else became bisexual to "appease the crazed fangirls" who "take it too far." It's especially offensive when we're told to be "grateful" for what we have (that is, Kelly Chambers for lesbians and NOTHING for homosexual men) and to "stick to fanfiction" for our "fetish material."

So yes, please, bring on the new love-interests. But don't tell me that it would be some horrible travesty to develop Kaidan or Ash in a way that allows him/her to be available to the same sex. It's possible to do so without hurting continuity, I promise.

EDIT: I do not mean to level those comments as direct accusations at True Zarken, but only to explain why same-sex supporters take issue with such a "compromise." The truth is, we don't have any problem with the compromise itself, only the constant assertion that it would ruin Kaidan/Ash/Miranda/Anyone forever if he or she became bisexual in ME3.

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 21 juin 2011 - 07:27 .

[shepskisaac]

True Zarken DID say he wouldn't mind Kaidan and Ashely being available for s/s option, read his entire post folks

[AngelicMachinery]

IsaacShep wrote...

True Zarken DID say he wouldn't mind Kaidan and Ashely being available for s/s option, read his entire post folks

I take issue with the word allow... 

And I should probably sleep...  might be getting a tad overly aggressive.

Modifié par AngelicMachinery, 21 juin 2011 - 07:25 .

[the_one_54321]

Taking issue with a single word choice when the person is deliberately trying to be agreeable is a sign of over aggression. *nods*

[KawaiiKatie]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

True Zarken DID say he wouldn't mind Kaidan and Ashely being available for s/s option, read his entire post folks

I take issue with the word allow... 

And I should probably sleep...  might be getting a tad overly aggressive.

I agree, the wording was pretty tasteless. But IsaacShep has a point, True Zarken is largely on our side in support of (some) old characters becoming available as same-sex romance options.... So, if I snapped at you, True Zarken, I appologize, because you're not the one who deserves my venom. Just choose your words more carefully next time, please.

[True Zarken]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Yes, a lot of same-sex supporters are absolutely fine with the idea of Bioware introducing new characters as bisexual or homosexual love-interests. In fact, most of us would be thrilled by it.

However, we take issue when it is said that it would be a horrible "retcon" that would "ruin existing characters" if Kaidan or Ash or anyone else became bisexual to "appease the crazed fangirls" who "take it too far." It's especially offensive when we're told to be "grateful" for what we have (that is, Kelly Chambers for lesbians and NOTHING for homosexual men) and to "stick to fanfiction" for our "fetish material."

So yes, please, bring on the new love-interests. But don't tell me that it would be some horrible travesty to develop Kaidan or Ash in a way that allows him/her to be available to the same sex. It's possible to do so without hurting continuity, I promise.

I completely understand if you take issue with people declaring it a horrible retcon. As it is a way of life for some and for something to be declared horrible when it is your personal prefrence when it comes to life would hurt a persons feelings. Also with people declaring this as "appeasing the crazed fangirls" who "take it too far." I would take issue with that as well as people are generalising horribly there. But a lot of individuals who post on here don't take into account another persons feelings or beliefs when they post on here.

When I look back at this thread and many others that have been created since the announcement of Bi love interests most of the people that don't approve are more worried about the Mass Effect 2 love interests more than anything. So turning Mass Effect 1 love interets Ash and Kaidan and adding new Bi love interests to Mass Effect 3 while leaving Mass Effect 2 love interests alone seems like the best possible out come right now. While also leaving a diverse pool of Bi love interests for Shepard when people enter Mass Effect 3

EDIT 1: I apologize for my wording as it was very poor of me and I am suffering from fatigue and sleepless nights so I apologize. However it is no excuse for my poor choice in words so again I apologize.

EDIT 2: I realise that a compromise shouldn't be needed. However many people on these forums don't like the idea of Bi love interests, because many people don't like retcons and/or are still living in the old ways so you can't blame them for that. So the only way to get what everyone wants is a compromise.

Modifié par True Zarken, 21 juin 2011 - 07:48 .

[the_one_54321]

Let's look at it the other way around. What if Liara was originally a lesbian only character? Then, because she was popular with the straight guys they said that now she's until guys too. How would that be taken? Or if Maiden was originally gay and they changed him to straight? Would you still see it as consistent with they story?

[the_one_54321]

Also please consider that only one poster made comments about posters being fangirls and being grateful for what they have. And the rest of us are not in line with his arguments.

[CroGamer002]

Or just no character hits on Shepard and only he/she can make a move first?