261 réponses à ce sujet

[the_one_54321]

Yes, Kaiden.

Actually creating a story arc to illustrate change would be very different from trying to change a background retroactively. Creating more story would be fine.

[True Zarken]

Again if no one saw my original edit to my post above I apologize for my wording as it was very poor of me and I am suffering from fatigue and sleepless nights so I apologize. However it is no excuse for my poor choice in words so again I apologize.

[KawaiiKatie]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Let's look at it the other way around. What if Liara was originally a lesbian only character? Then, because she was popular with the straight guys they said that now she's until guys too. How would that be taken? Or if Maiden was originally gay and they changed him to straight? Would you still see it as consistent with they story?

There really should be some sort of reference to Juhani here.... but I'm not sure how to work it in. Fill in the blanks yourself, folks.

Um, anyway, yes. If Liara had been lesbian-only (and fanboys were upset by it, WHAT KIND OF CRAZY ALTERNATE REALITY IS THIS?! ) and explicitly stated that she was only attracted to women, then yes, I would want Bioware go into great detail explaining her bisexuality as a character revelation. If they did not, I would certainly call it a "retcon."

And no one is asking for Kaidan to become gay-only.... So your example of "originally gay and changed to straight" doesn't really have a plac ein this argument.... But if someone was asking for that, I'd tell him or her to knock it off, because femSheps who romanced Kaidan in ME1 and ME2 shoudln't have to lose him.

ANYWAY, YES, I will maintain my theory that sexualities can and do change throughout a story and remain consistent to the continuity! If Bioware makes Kaidan or Ash or anyone bisexual even though they previously wer enot, I have great faith that they will find a way to implement it with extreme respect for the original continuity.

[KawaiiKatie]

True Zarken wrote...

Again if no one saw my original edit to my post above I apologize for my wording as it was very poor of me and I am suffering from fatigue and sleepless nights so I apologize. However it is no excuse for my poor choice in words so again I apologize.

Hey, no worries. You realized your mistake and you didn't intend to offend anyone. <3

[shepskisaac]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Let's look at it the other way around. What if Liara was originally a lesbian only character? Then, because she was popular with the straight guys they said that now she's until guys too. How would that be taken? Or if Maiden was originally gay and they changed him to straight? Would you still see it as consistent with they story?

If a character was gay and changed into straight or straight and changed into gay (GAY, not bi), then it would be a retcon since it would contradict previous attraction. Heterosexuality and homosexuality are exclusive. However if some character reveals he/she is bi (and not only gay/straight), then it doesn't change anything. He/she is still attracted to "my Shep". Of course there's also the issue of first declaration. If Liara declared she doesn't like men at all in ME1 and then said she does in ME2, that would also be a retcon. But if she didn't say anything, then it was only my assumption what was her stance on romancing the other gender and if she ever did it or would do it.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

No, the solution is weak. And negative answers to OP is more ridiculous than the first post.
In the End, any illogical and dumb changes in ME3 won't be tolerated (like everyone bi, Pink color for Normandy and Garrus's Armor) by the fans and if that happens Bioware will lose many of his fans including me and many users I know in BSN. Therefore there is large amount of decreasing of benefit to Bioware. Have a nice day.

[True Zarken]

Anyway I'm off and I hope that everyone that is in the thread that is after a same sex romance gets what they want in Mass Effect 3. Because after all the terrible things that have been said about you and to you all over the forums you deserve to go into Mass Effect 3 the way you want to and enjoy it to its fullest. 

Good Luck!

[CroGamer002]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Yes, Kaiden.

Actually creating a story arc to illustrate change would be very different from trying to change a background retroactively. Creating more story would be fine.

It's Kaidan.

[KawaiiKatie]

IsaacShep wrote...

If a character was gay and changed into straight or straight and changed into gay (GAY, not bi), then it would be a retcon since it would contradict previous attraction. Heterosexuality and homosexuality are exclusive. However if some character reveals he/she is bi (and not only gay/straight), then it doesn't change anything. He/she is still attracted to "my Shep". Of course there's also the issue of first declaration. If Liara declared she doesn't like men at all in ME1 and then said she does in ME2, that would also be a retcon. But if she didn't say anything, then it was only my assumption what was her stance on romancing the other gender and if she ever did it or would do it.

See, now, on this, I'm extremely conflicted. If an exclusively straight character became exclusively gay (or vis-versa), I'd need to see the context before I called it a retcon, because that is what happened to Willow from BtVS. She liked men genuinely and exclusively, but her character evolved to the point that she now likes women exclusively. It did not happen overnight, and was a plot point of several episodes, so I do not consider her change from heterosexual to homosexual a "retcon," but a gradual character development.

Now, I would be opposed to this in a video game, especially ME3, because existing characters may already have a sexual relationship with Shepard. If Kaidan became exclusively gay in ME3, I would be extremely sad, no matter how hard Bioware tried to sell me on whatever "character development" made him exclusively interested in men, because it would mean that he would be no longer interested in the thousands of femSheps who have already romanced him. And that would be awful!

But if Kaidan became bisexual, the femSheps already involved with Kaidan would not lose anything at all. Nor would Kaidan's core character. There would be some sort of plot point about his apparent disinterest in male Shepard before ME3. It would be discussed, but perhaps not in great length. Again, I'd need to see the actual context before I labled it a "retcon" or otherwise, but I think that Bioware has earned my trust in this issue. They always explain these kinds of changes, however brielfy, because they are ever dedicated to fully-developed characters.

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 21 juin 2011 - 08:12 .

[lovgreno]

There are no retcons in any story. The writer have the right to twist things however they want. Artistic freedom for BioWare and everyone else. Some may call changes they dislike in a story "retcons" but that is realy just their own irrelevant opinions. In any story the only realy relevant opinion is that of the writer. So let's stop calling it a retcon.

[highcastle]

The OP's suggestion sidesteps the issue of bisexuality. Not every person--or every Shep in this case--is exclusively straight or gay. And forcing people to play as such not only cuts down on characterization options, but carries with it a slew of unfortunate implications.

Here's the best solution: you don't want to romance someone of your gender? Don't flirt with them. Problem solved.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

lovgreno wrote...

There are no retcons in any story. The writer have the right to twist things however they want. Artistic freedom for BioWare and everyone else. Some may call changes they dislike in a story "retcons" but that is realy just their own irrelevant opinions. In any story the only realy relevant opinion is that of the writer. So let's stop calling it a retcon.

Like the changes they made to the qunari in DA2. OK, bioware can change the space hamster into space donkey (and still call it space hamster), and can change everyone who was straight into whatever he wants.

[Comsky159]

I would agree with the OP, but some people really seem to just want to make a character who will screw anything that moves, so I acknowledge we should keep them in mind.

[Shepard Lives]

It's hilariously irritating to watch you guys come up with these devious plans when all our problems could be solved if some people tried to be a smidge more open-minded and tolerant. You have dedication, I'll give you that.

[HolyMoogle]

This whole discussion is moot because this suggestion will never be implemented.

By the way, here's what I consider a better suggestion, and one which has pretty good odds of being present in the final game: If you don't want to romance somebody, don't click on the (probable) heart/flirty option!

Mind. BLOWN.

[brain_damage]

No bisexuals exist in your own little world?

[Raiders Fan 223]

Sorry I was away from my computer, but just read through all of the comments.

I've argued all of the points, many of which weren't discussed here. I know the S/S and bi supports will not likely ever change their mind.

In the end it comes down to this: we (non-SS supporters) don't want our perceptions of characters to change. Obviously, our real-life views will influence how we perceive the characters and their sexuality(ies).

Knowing that certain characters can be bi or gay (even if its an option) might still alter our opinions of them. Even, as a poster wrote, if it's simply a little heart for one piece of dialogue. I realize gay/bi people may think this is shallow/intolerant/narrow-minded, but whatever. Its my viewpoint, just like everyone else is entitled to theirs.

Bottom line: its in Bioware's hands. Hopefully they will release some new information soon.

[efrgfhnm_]

I do like this idea, the characters would, despite what has been said by some ardent supporters, have changed to their personalities in order to suddenly turn gay or bi. Therefore, if this was put in place, no character derailment would occur in playthroughs, unless it is being specifically aimed for

[Badpie]

thatguy212 wrote...

I have the real solution to the same sex romance "issue", it may sound strange and hard to implement but i think its really the only way it could be done properly, when someone of the same sex hits on you and you don't want to romance them, simple select the dialogue option that says you don't to romance them

I'm not sure why this idea right here is so difficult for a lot of people to get and accept.

[ShdwPlayer]

I can't be bothered to read all those pages. So my apologies if this has already been suggested. Why don't they just make it an option when importing your Shepard into ME3 or starting ME3. A simple check-box (enable gay romances?) or a drop down menu stating that you are gay, straight, bi or whatever. This could even play into the game instead of being a more artificial option, I think it's reasonable to believe that Shepard (>>>The Player<<<) can tell a computer or whatnot that he is this and that, likes that and not that, etc.

Honestly I just don't want any of my characters in my playthroughs retconned. Granted also, that I could not possibly know them fully. People who are asking for gay relationships want a deeper connection with these characters. I'd still like to feel that same connection to my characters in game that people asking for gay relationships now want for their characters in their games.

But if other people want to have relationships with old characters that they couldn't before, then let them. Granted, it might create more work for Bioware...... Or maybe change a few words in common sentences? I dunno - not a perfect idea.

I hope Bioware respects those people who want their relationships to stay pretty much the same, just as much as they are now trying to respect and fulfill those people who want gay/bi/lesbian/whatever relationships in the game

Modifié par ShdwPlayer, 21 juin 2011 - 12:14 .

[ShdwPlayer]

Reading through some posts, I also agree on the simple solution of just not pursuing the relationships.

I think the OP just wanted a way so that they would never have to shoot down characters who they *thought were straight.

Modifié par ShdwPlayer, 21 juin 2011 - 12:27 .

[WidowMaker9394]

Please, don't ****ing do it like DA2.