99 réponses à ce sujet

[PMC65]

InviolateNK wrote...

Whyp_2 wrote...

The reason why I think the VS is a Spectre in ME3 is because for political reasons. When you're travelling around the galaxy trying to recruit the other species, you might wanna need that kind of access that Spectres get, just like in ME1, more or less.

Why the VS is aslo a Spectre could be that there's the possibility that Shepard is not a Spectre anymore, and that where the VS comes in. However, if Shepard is a Spectre, than that is twice the better

Even for political reasons...I understand why Shepard was a spectre. Kaidan is a great and useful biotic but just that and the fact the he was there with Shepard all the way (in my playthroughs)...he still lacks something that Shepard has. I like Kaidan but I wouldn't make him a spectre.
But Ashley...oh please.  If she's the VS, that's why she's back in ME 3.  In ME 2 Shepard stopped the Collectors. For the Alliance that was a more or less quiet period. What did Ashley manage to do during the events of ME 2 to deserve being a spectre? She was just a regular soldier, nothing more. If I could, I'd leave her back on Eden Prime. Oh yeah, she's also a potential LI - that's all there is special to her and will always be. But that can never be enough to become a spectre.

Are we talking about the same Ashley who had survived Eden Prime while the rest of her crew died? The crazy b1t*ch was still fighting when Shepard & Kaiden arrived and then was ready to go back in battle. Just try and stop her. If it were me I would have showed these two guys the direction of the geth and stayed with the researchers, "No, that's okay. I'll protect the civilians, you two go ahead."  My Shepard with the Akuze background liked this soldier ALOT!

She also was part of the team that brought down Saren, saved the Citadel & (possibly) the council ... Shepard didn't do it alone ... at least in my game.

Who knows what else she has been up to since she was with Shepard. That will hopefully come out in ME3.

[AresXX7]

ashlover mark 2 wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

I couldn't even trigger the one with Elias Kelham, you can't even tell him you're a Spectre unless you have max Renegade for some reason, despite it being a simple fact that shouldn't be tied to any morality. As for Aria, she seems pretty unconcerned with your being a Spectre.

you can use your spectre status without max Renegade against Elias.be the bad cop and dont hit him or be to intimadating,let the interagation play out and allow his lawyer to walk in.the lawyer will say he will sue thane and shepard and take his case all the way to the council.

you can then use your spectre status to make elias and lawyer **** in their pants....its actually even more satisfying to allow it to play out this way.

Yes, that one is good too, but I have to agree with Aris on being able to do the shortest interrogation ever 

[ashlover mark 2]

PMC65 wrote...

InviolateNK wrote...

Whyp_2 wrote...

The reason why I think the VS is a Spectre in ME3 is because for political reasons. When you're travelling around the galaxy trying to recruit the other species, you might wanna need that kind of access that Spectres get, just like in ME1, more or less.

Why the VS is aslo a Spectre could be that there's the possibility that Shepard is not a Spectre anymore, and that where the VS comes in. However, if Shepard is a Spectre, than that is twice the better

Even for political reasons...I understand why Shepard was a spectre. Kaidan is a great and useful biotic but just that and the fact the he was there with Shepard all the way (in my playthroughs)...he still lacks something that Shepard has. I like Kaidan but I wouldn't make him a spectre.
But Ashley...oh please.  If she's the VS, that's why she's back in ME 3.  In ME 2 Shepard stopped the Collectors. For the Alliance that was a more or less quiet period. What did Ashley manage to do during the events of ME 2 to deserve being a spectre? She was just a regular soldier, nothing more. If I could, I'd leave her back on Eden Prime. Oh yeah, she's also a potential LI - that's all there is special to her and will always be. But that can never be enough to become a spectre.

Are we talking about the same Ashley who had survived Eden Prime while the rest of her crew died? The crazy b1t*ch was still fighting when Shepard & Kaiden arrived and then was ready to go back in battle. Just try and stop her. If it were me I would have showed these two guys the direction of the geth and stayed with the researchers, "No, that's okay. I'll protect the civilians, you two go ahead."  My Shepard with the Akuze background liked this soldier ALOT!

She also was part of the team that brought down Saren, saved the Citadel & (possibly) the council ... Shepard didn't do it alone ... at least in my game.

Who knows what else she has been up to since she was with Shepard. That will hopefully come out in ME3.

This.

these forums are just so biased against ash.had it been anyone else everyone would be going gaga over one of their favorite charecters being made a spectre without all these dumb reasons and excuses.

but noooooo,ash gets the spotlight and everyones got a reason to say she isnt worthy to be a spectre.

if tali or wrex were made a spectre NOBODY would complain..... even though there would be no reasons to asume they we would be spectre matriale either.

[The Twilight God]

Funkcase wrote...

And Shepard was also a Grunt in ME1 before he became a Spectre.

No, he was a top ranked special forces soldier of great renoune before he became a SPECTRE. That is why the top brass picked him and the Council was interested in him. He is literally the best that humanity has to offer. Granted, all SPECTREs can't be the best of their species like Saren and Shepard, but they need to be able to get 'er done. Kaidan does not strike me as the kind of person who can make the hard decisions. And Ashley? I don't think she quite has it in her to make big sacrifices either. This isn't so much about combat skill. For all we know Kaidan could be have been a N7 in ME1 and Ashley have become a B7. It's more about who they are. If they make Kaidan into some kind of Rambo Garrus... oh, god, I don't want to think about the nerdrage we would see.

[DialupToaster]

The Twilight God wrote...

If Ashley or Kaidan are SPECTREs can I take it that they are incapable of falling in combat? I foresee alot of facepalm when random mooks are pwning a SPECTRE.

*Kaidan hits Mook #11 with a throw*
Kaidan: Have a nice trip!!
*Mook #54 opens fire on Kaidan*
Cerberus Mook #54: Haha! This guy isn't even taking cover. He standing on top of it like an idiot!!!
*Kaidan goes down*
Cerberus Mook #54: Who-hoo!! I'm such a badass!! I just took down a SPECTRE. 
Cerberus Mook #25: Nah, they're letting everybody into the SPECTREs these days. They offered me a spot too but I declined. I'm overqualified because I stay behind the cover. If I as a SPECTRE nobody would intimidated by me.

If they are no better or worse than any other companion, can I also assume that they can use Unity and that they can revive Shepard if he goes down making them a preferred companion?

No now when they die it results in CRITICAL MISSION FAILURE!

[The Twilight God]

mineralica wrote...

So, the SpeCTRe "falling" in battle is a problem now? Huh!
The strongest human biotic who destroyed three YMIRs with single attack... falls in battle on regular basis - because, you know, shotgun in hands doesn't immediately make you a tank.
Asari justicar with 400 years combat expertise... is rather fragile in battle. And if you compare her barrier (asari with abilities of matriarch) and Tela Vasir's... umm...
Salarian who killed several krogans with a pitchfork and dealt with Bloodpack attacking his clinic... falls in battle. Less than previous two, but still.

The trick is that no one of them really dies ("Miranda, I need in Lazarus 16.0 NAOW! Wait... Miranda?") or even gets injured (at least they stand up later without any damage to characteristics and Shepard isn't forced to send anyone to med bay, interrupting the mission), thus "falling in battle" is a pure gameplay event, having no importance storywise.

Jack and Mordin, not so much. Jack has pure power, but I never got the impression that she was necessarily skilled or a good fighter. She simply relies on overwhlming force, but if outnumbered she'd be toast (I don;t see her lasting long enough for the reaper artifact in Arrival to lay her out). And the STG aren't exactly SPECTREs. Mordin was a STG scientist with some small arms training. You didn't recruit him for his combat skills.

Samara, yes. Zaeed, yes. Even Grunt going down kinda erked me (although it's rare). I thought it was very odd that they was no better than Jacob or Mordin. What annoys me most is this insistency on making every inferior to Shepard. 4 total skills? 1 of which isn't even an actual skill. Really?

ashlover mark 2 wrote...

This.

these forums are just so biased against ash.had it been anyone else everyone would be going gaga over one of their favorite charecters being made a spectre without all these dumb reasons and excuses.

but noooooo,ash gets the spotlight and everyones got a reason to say she isnt worthy to be a spectre.

if tali or wrex were made a spectre NOBODY would complain..... even though there would be no reasons to asume they we would be spectre matriale either.

Wrex and Garrus. Nobody would say a thing because they are badasses. Garrus' situation on Omega was pretty much the War Hero background. Zaeed is pretty much a SPECTRE for hire. Samara could probably be a SPECTRE too if not for her code.

But Tali? People would laugh til milk came out their nose and Bioware would have to admit it was a joke.

Tali a SPECTRE... LOL!!!

Modifié par The Twilight God, 22 juin 2011 - 02:56 .

[1136342t54_]

Just want to add something into this thread.

To be honest I'm not surprised that they were suggested to be a Spectre. Hell Garrus and Nihlus were grunts in the military and both were Spectre candidates.

Also please don't compare the VS to Shepard. Shepard isn't an average for a Spectre simply because he killed one who was considered a legend among the Spectres.

[PrinceLionheart]

ashlover mark 2 wrote...

if tali or wrex were made a spectre NOBODY would complain..... even though there would be no reasons to asume they we would be spectre matriale either.

Wrex maybe, but a lot of people would #$*@! if it was Tali, and this is coming from one of her more vocal critics.


But I agree, believe it or not, Ashley and Kaidan actually have more checkmarks on the record following ME2 than Shepard did when he was first nominated to be a Spectre. Being the "leader" of the operation is irrelevant considering 2 out 3 of Shep's background didn't involve him being in charge of the operation: it was just getting the job done (Torfan) or surviving (Akuze.)

Modifié par PrinceLionheart, 22 juin 2011 - 03:47 .

[1136342t54_]

There is a reason why I had stopped posting on these forums for a while. The ignorance of some of these people was grating.

Also my Avatar picture eventually made me started to frown like that everytime a poster said something stupid lol.

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 22 juin 2011 - 03:51 .

[1136342t54_]

The Twilight God wrote...

No, he was a top ranked special forces soldier of great renoune before he became a SPECTRE. That is why the top brass picked him and the Council was interested in him. He is literally the best that humanity has to offer. Granted, all SPECTREs can't be the best of their species like Saren and Shepard, but they need to be able to get 'er done. Kaidan does not strike me as the kind of person who can make the hard decisions. And Ashley? I don't think she quite has it in her to make big sacrifices either. This isn't so much about combat skill. For all we know Kaidan could be have been a N7 in ME1 and Ashley have become a B7. It's more about who they are. If they make Kaidan into some kind of Rambo Garrus... oh, god, I don't want to think about the nerdrage we would see.

Many Spectres aren't like Shepard who likes to go into situations guns blazin. Many of them are diplomats or even very good infiltrators who like to finish a fight before it starts. Hell Saren has a crap load of influence and wealth to the point where he can hire an army of Krogan. Not all Spectres gets the job done the same way.

[GodWood]

@ The Twilight God
I think what you need to understand is that how a character acts in gameplay is not a reflection of how capable or how a strong a character is in the context of the setting.

[Made Nightwing]

The average training period for the world's elite Special Forces operatives is about eighteen months. It's getting close to three years between ME1 and ME3. Plenty of time for special training and some badassery to earn a SPECTRE position. I'm looking forward to them talking about their qualifying missions, aka Mordin's pitchfork kill, or Samara chasing Nihilus (These moments were simply awesome).

[Badpie]

As capable as I think Ash and Kaidan are (and I do think they're capable), I'm predicting the SpecTRe thing had a lot more to do with politics than anything else. Maybe a big push by Anderson to keep not only a human in their ranks, but one who was on Shepard's squad and also believed the Reapers were coming.

Are Ash and Kaidan capable of the position? Yes. Would they have been chosen at all if it weren't for their involvement in everything in ME1? No.

[J. Finley]

I'm not really expecting anything special from them, at least in combat. I could see them possibly getting the Spectre training skill similar to the one we had in ME1, though.

[PrinceLionheart]

Badpie wrote...

As capable as I think Ash and Kaidan are (and I do think they're capable), I'm predicting the SpecTRe thing had a lot more to do with politics than anything else. Maybe a big push by Anderson to keep not only a human in their ranks, but one who was on Shepard's squad and also believed the Reapers were coming.

Are Ash and Kaidan capable of the position? Yes. Would they have been chosen at all if it weren't for their involvement in everything in ME1? No.

One thing that came to mind last night that suddenly dawned on me is that it really isn't surprising. Shepard was always the test case for future perspective Human Spectres. If he could impress the Council Races, humans would get more involved with the politics and Spectres. So in hindsight, it really is no surprise that more humans like VS are showing up as Spectres.

[Dean_the_Young]

Hindsight? Shepard was always meant to open the doors for more in the future.

Why people get this 'Shepard is Humanity's only Spectre, all others must be his equal' qualification is beyond silly. Shepard was simply the first, and needed to open the doors of power for more.

[MastaPasta]

Because obviously you've never died and seen the critical missio failure screen.
And Shepard, the greatest spectre and main character didn't die or anything.
And we didn't kill 2 spectres already.
One of which was an insanely easy battle until it turned out he had got his whole body upgraded and changed by reapers and was now an IMPROVED version.

Please stfu.

[MastaPasta]

wtfdoublepost

[Zeus_Deus]

VS - no N7 training, therefore cannot even be considered for SPECTRE candidacy.

[The Twilight God]

1136342t54 wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

No, he was a top ranked special forces soldier of great renoune before he became a SPECTRE. That is why the top brass picked him and the Council was interested in him. He is literally the best that humanity has to offer. Granted, all SPECTREs can't be the best of their species like Saren and Shepard, but they need to be able to get 'er done. Kaidan does not strike me as the kind of person who can make the hard decisions. And Ashley? I don't think she quite has it in her to make big sacrifices either. This isn't so much about combat skill. For all we know Kaidan could be have been a N7 in ME1 and Ashley have become a B7. It's more about who they are. If they make Kaidan into some kind of Rambo Garrus... oh, god, I don't want to think about the nerdrage we would see.

Many Spectres aren't like Shepard who likes to go into situations guns blazin. Many of them are diplomats or even very good infiltrators who like to finish a fight before it starts. Hell Saren has a crap load of influence and wealth to the point where he can hire an army of Krogan. Not all Spectres gets the job done the same way.

Shepard has a crap load of money at the end of ME1. Saren made some investments that paid off. His finances have nothing to do with his being a SPECTRE. He may have gotten rich as a SPECTRE, but that had nothing to do with the actual performance of his duties.

Kasumi = SPECTRE infiltrator. What do Kaidan or Ashely have to do with being infiltrators? They aren't going to be new classes, are they?

There are no "SPECTRE diplomats". They're just diplomats. 

[AngelicMachinery]

People are afraid Shepard will lose special snowflake status if there are other human spectres. Truthfully Ashley and Kaidan accomplished more than Shepard did in getting accepted into the ranks of Spectre. They saved countless of lives while Shepard turned the tide of a single battle...

Sorry guys, if anything is forced it's Shepard not the VS.

[Patchwork]

The codex clearly says that not every spectre gets the job done the same way, some use guns, some use politics, some a combination.

While ITA I can't see Kaidan as a Shepard/Saren big name, guns blazing type of Spectre I can see him getting things done in a more low key, behind the scenes way. Both sorts are useful and neither is better than the other.

[Antivenger]

The Twilight God wrote...

Shepard has a crap load of money at the end of ME1. Saren made some investments that paid off. His finances have nothing to do with his being a SPECTRE. He may have gotten rich as a SPECTRE, but that had nothing to do with the actual performance of his duties.

Kasumi = SPECTRE infiltrator. What do Kaidan or Ashely have to do with being infiltrators? They aren't going to be new classes, are they?

There are no "SPECTRE diplomats". They're just diplomats. 

Although this is pretty much irrelevant, I doubt Shepard actually had 9 million or however much credits in ME1. In gameplay you get that much from looting hundreds of weapons, armour and ammo and carry it around with you. Is that really believable?

Boiling it down because a lot of valid arguments have been made:

Ashley has exceptional combat abilities and examplery leadership skills with minimal training due to the bias against her. Three-four years of training and field missions would definitely excel those traits. There was a lot of room for her to mature, I'll admit. The direness of this situation makes me think she's getting more focused.

Kaidan is a biotic, with abilities exceeding those of any Turian biotic and probably matching up to an Asari maiden, increased as he apparently decides to "no longer hold back" by the end of ME3. There's still a possibility of an upgrade as of ME3, we don't know. He also shows promising skills with combat-technology and leadership skills.

As for "unwilling to make sacrifices". Both are willing to DIE on Virmire. Maybe it was the heat of the moment making their heads go fuzzy, but you can't ignore that fact.

classes, ME2 both branches out and closed in on squaddie classes. New names, branching out their abilities outside their "original" classes but also simplifying them too much. I'm expecting more for ME3, maybe extra heavy weapons or Infiltrator skills for Ashley, and improved Sentinel skills for Kaidan.

Again, they both showed great promise. 3-4 years to make due on that.

Modifié par Antivenger, 22 juin 2011 - 06:33 .

[1136342t54_]

The Twilight God wrote...
Shepard has a crap load of money at the end of ME1. Saren made some investments that paid off.

Shepard was scavenging and stealing money that is not comparable to what Saren did. Not only did Saren's investments paid off he also gained a lot of influence in many corporations and likely some factions. Thats power some politicians would love to have.

His finances have nothing to do with his being a SPECTRE. He may have gotten rich as a SPECTRE, but that had nothing to do with the actual performance of his duties.

A Spectre does everything he or she can to be effective and complete missions. Saren thought it was intelligent to have a lot of money and power to make him a more affective agent. A Spectre's combat skills isn't what make a Spectre.

Kasumi = SPECTRE infiltrator. What do Kaidan or Ashely have to do with being infiltrators? They aren't going to be new classes, are they?

There are no "SPECTRE diplomats". They're just diplomats. 

Did I say they would be an infiltrator? Nope I was trying to explain how not all Spectres just shoot crap.

So the Codex was lying when they said Spectres can take up diplomatic roles?

[ashlover mark 2]

the main thing here is,if bioware writes them as spectres then they are spectres reagrdless of what naysayers think.if the writers are going to give them this elite title and status then you had best belive there will be a good enough reason and story for them to have it.

they both have served with shepard through ME1 faceing numerous enemys rangeing from merc bands cerberus commandos and geth armies.they have seen extensive combat and helped save the galaxy.now in if that alone isnt one hell of a service record then youve got the 3 yearss from ME1 to ME3 that we know nothing of.three years is a long time and the mass effect universe isnt a safe place ash and kai could have been in numerous pirate supression campgins across citadel space.

not to mention that two year long war between the citadel and the geth that contiuned after the battle of the citadel.

in short bioware will give us a good enough story on their spectre orgins all we have to do is wait.

Modifié par ashlover mark 2, 22 juin 2011 - 07:12 .