62 réponses à ce sujet

[Crackseed]

Yeah, there is that particular snag to overcome but considering they've said they will bring everyone up to speed and/or allow people to make decisions before the start of the game who missed stuff, it should present the information before the trial to players who opted out of Arrival.

[MysticMage44]

Lets face it if shepard really wanted to he could kill a reaper by himself, with his bare hands.

[Crackseed]

Well Shepard is the ME universe's Chuck Norris.

[Destroy Raiden_]

If your shep was para I don't see her willing to use her power in that way it makes her no more then her mom again. She wouldn't do anything like that unless shep asked her to or signaled her to do so.

For ren sheps if they could turn her ren I could see she might do it but would the Alliance still back down over some leaked info on them? They might not issue press releases and say that's not true.

[MysticMage44]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

If your shep was para I don't see her willing to use her power in that way it makes her no more then her mom again. She wouldn't do anything like that unless shep asked her to or signaled her to do so.

For ren sheps if they could turn her ren I could see she might do it but would the Alliance still back down over some leaked info on them? They might not issue press releases and say that's not true.

See the Shadow Broker is portrayed as so powerful and influential that she could even controll the presses. The Shadow Broker seemes to have agents absolutely everywhere. Not to mention the presses seem like an extremely important place for the Shadow Broker to have agents.

[MysticMage44]

luk4s3d wrote...

CheeseEnchilada wrote...

Liara blackmailing the Alliance doesn't do anything about the batarians that are now out for Shepard's blood. This isn't something that she can cover up; a whole star system gone and over 300,000 deaths is a pretty big deal, and Liara isn't magic. Even if she did threaten high ranking officials on both sides into dropping charges, it does nothing for the common folk that now hate Shepard's guts. We don't need the universe divided during a Reaper invasion. It's better to embrace it as an opportunity than try to cover it up.

Besides, this gives Shepard a stage to talk about the Reapers. The whole galaxy is going to be watching this trial, after all.

Well said. Excellent points, all!

But Liara is Magic. She is a Biotic. Space magic. And as we all know Magic has no real rules. All the rules of magic are created by the makers of the world in which the magic exists. I n this case the ME team at Bioware. Therefore if they decide there can be space magic, then anything can happen. As a matter of fact this is just a game and therefore anything can happen anyway.

[OdanUrr]

As far as I can tell, there is absolutely no evidence to prove Shepard was responsible for the destruction of the Alpha Relay beyond Shepard's own admission of guilt to Admiral Hackett. Even if you choose the Paragon option, you can't warn the batarians about their impending doom because your transmission doesn't get through. Not even Normandy's crew knew what really happened down there, they just saved him in the nick of time. It could be argued that Shepard's transmission (if he made any, remember it's a choice) was somehow intercepted by the Alliance, but his words do not imply he was responsible for this.

Secondly, the Alliance has hands down refused to believe Shepard's story that the Reapers are coming. If they're not willing to believe him on this matter, why should they take his admission of guilt at blowing up an entire star system at face value? In fact, if he were making it all up, why would he even say he's responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands of sentient beings? Why not blame it on the Reapers to reinforce his "story"? (bad example, he does this to some extent)

Bottom line is, what other evidence does the Alliance have, besides Shepard's own admission of guilt, that he's indeed responsible for the deaths of three hundred thousand batarians? No, I think that the only way for any accusation to stick would be to add a charge of treason for colluding with Cerberus. Ashley/Kaidan can testify to this, though only to some degree concerning the events on Horizon. Even this case would most likely be based on circumstantial evidence, unless TIM throws the Alliance a bone on this matter. Still, I believe this should be the main focus of the trial rather than the events of Arrival, since they're too little too close to the subject of "Reapers."

Ah, yes...

Modifié par OdanUrr, 22 juin 2011 - 04:07 .

[Malanek]

OdanUrr wrote...
Bottom line is, what other evidence does the Alliance have, besides Shepard's own admission of guilt, that he's indeed responsible for the deaths of three hundred thousand batarians? No, I think that the only way for any accusation to stick would be to add a charge of treason for colluding with Cerberus. This should be the main focus of the trial rather than the events of Arrival, since they're closest to the subject of "Reapers." Ah, yes...

Admiral Hackett knew Shepard went in there and that Shepard came out. Batarians also knew that humans were meddling around with the relay even if they don't know it was Shepard. They want justice, the alliance wants to placate them.

[Kusy]

Well to me Shepard always seemed like a guy who would go to a trial when he was officly called for one. Sure nobody can catch Normandy, sure Liara is the Shadowbroker... Sheploo is not some random mercenary, he's a soldier wit honor.

[George-Kinsill]

I actually think this trial is more of a questioning as to what the hell Shepard has been doing since he "died." He is the most famous human in the galaxy, who all of a sudden disappears, and joins up with an enemy he fought in ME1 to stop abductions of human colonies that is confounding the alliance? You bet that the Alliance wants to question him, ad if it wasn't for Hackett as revealed in LotSB, Shepard may have been forcibly extradited.

[OdanUrr]

Malanek999 wrote...

Admiral Hackett knew Shepard went in there and that Shepard came out. Batarians also knew that humans were meddling around with the relay even if they don't know it was Shepard. They want justice, the alliance wants to placate them.

Admiral Hackett knew Shepard went in because he was told so. He wasn't a witness to that, was he? So, really, most of his testimony regarding Project Rho will be hearsay.

[Malanek]

OdanUrr wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Admiral Hackett knew Shepard went in there and that Shepard came out. Batarians also knew that humans were meddling around with the relay even if they don't know it was Shepard. They want justice, the alliance wants to placate them.

Admiral Hackett knew Shepard went in because he was told so. He wasn't a witness to that, was he? So, really, most of his testimony regarding Project Rho will be hearsay.

He also debriefed Shepard afterwards. He knows rather than it being supposition.

[OdanUrr]

Malanek999 wrote...

He also debriefed Shepard afterwards. He knows rather than it being supposition.

We're going in circles here. My point is he knows because Shepard told him. Since the Alliance doesn't want to believe his story on the Reapers, why should they feel more inclined to believe this?

[ME-ParaShep]

Knight of Dane wrote...

I'm very interested to find out what her role at all will be.

Providing information she could do without being in the party, there must be some reason as to why she leaves the base to go shooting things with Shep again.
I don't know if it's just her long relationship with him/her that makes her come back, but i can't see why she would do it now if she wouldn't with the collectors.

Not that I'm complaining of course, she is my fav, but it will be interresting to discover.
Perhaps the SB base has been attacked or something?

Here's how I think it'll go down as to how she gets to be on Shepard's squad once again.

Liara: Feron! You look well today!

Feron: Yup, I'm doing fine. I actually got over the physical trauma of being tortured these past couple years. I think I can handle things on my own now. Thank you for taking care of me when I needed it the most.

Liara: Listen.. Feron.. You've been a great friend and helping me fix the ShadowBroker network. Everything'sbeen a total success. We have all the resources that a powerful organization would need to survive a war, we have allies who can support us in just a press of a button, and we have hookups to the most classified intel in the known galaxy. I was wondering if you can do a favor for me since you're better now.

Feron: Sure, what is it?

Liara: Since Shepard last visited us here, I've been thinking. I miss being on his crew, back in the old days he, I, and the rest of the squad would go blazing across the galaxy in search of Saren and the Geth, saving hostages, slaves, killing mercs, and figuring out the mysterious the galaxy has to offer. Shepard made me want to do all of that again. But I can't do that if I'm here all day and everyday sorting through information. The Reapers are coming and I can't stand by giving support from the sidelines. I want to be in the depths of battle again, where it matters.

Feron: So.. you want me to-

Liara: Can you take my place as ShadowBroker until the war is over? Thanks Feron! I'll be packing up my things now!

Feron: Ooook... Bye Liara..

Modifié par ME-ParaShep, 22 juin 2011 - 04:37 .

[Malanek]

OdanUrr wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

He also debriefed Shepard afterwards. He knows rather than it being supposition.

We're going in circles here. My point is he knows because Shepard told him. Since the Alliance doesn't want to believe his story on the Reapers, why should they feel more inclined to believe this?

Well actually the alliance does seem to believe his story about the Reapers. But that is almost beside the point. If you admit to committing a crime people generally believe it, especially when circumstancial evidence supports it. If you say you did it because it stopped little green men from coming down and destroying the world you are less likely to be believed about that part. People might believe you are insane or merely making up an excuse, but they will still believe you did the crime.

[OdanUrr]

Malanek999 wrote...

Well actually the alliance does seem to believe his story about the Reapers. But that is almost beside the point. If you admit to committing a crime people generally believe it, especially when circumstancial evidence supports it. If you say you did it because it stopped little green men from coming down and destroying the world you are less likely to be believed about that part. People might believe you are insane or merely making up an excuse, but they will still believe you did the crime.

I agree, Shepard does justify his actions by saying it was to stop the Reaper fleet. This could be used by the prosecutor to reinforce the case that Shepard is unstable and a menace if used correctly. However, it would imply mentioning the Reapers during the course of the trial and trying to play it down as some sort of fantasy developed by Shepard as a result of the events in ME1. The Cerberus angle should be easier to prove.

[Malanek]

But then simply working for Cerberus is a much less grevious offence particularly when the council were aware and even condoned it. Specter status is enough to grant immunity from associating with Cerberus. Specter status is not sufficient to grant immunity from killing 300,000 civilians.

Plus, this isn't even about proof. This is about politics and the Batarians being extremely, and understandably, f**ked off.

Modifié par Malanek999, 22 juin 2011 - 04:47 .

[InHarmsWay]

I have my defense planned.

NOT GUILTY BY REASON OF NECESSITY

In legal terms, a person can argue that he/she cannot be held liable for a crime they comitted because it was by committing that crime, they were able to twart a greater harm. For example, a person can argue that they cannot be held liable for driving drunk, because they need to escape some kidnappers.

To successfully argue necessity, the accused must prove 4 conditions.

1) The harm he/she sought to avoid must outweigh the harm they committed.
2) He/She had no legal/reasonable alternative.
3) He/She ceased the conduct as soon as the danger passed.
4) He/She did not create the danger they sought to avoid.

So the argument goes like this.

1) The harm Shepard sought to avoid was the immediate extinction of all life in the galaxy which cost 300, 000 Batarian lives as opposed to trillions.
2) Due to being drugged and knocked out, there was no time to create or find a reasonable alternative to destroying the Alpha Relay.
3) Shepard ceased killing hundreds of thousands of Batarians as soon as the immediate invasion of the Reapers was thwarted, termporarily.
4) Shepard did not create the Reapers.

Of course this defense will be 100% effective once the Reaper war is over.

Modifié par InHarmsWay, 22 juin 2011 - 04:53 .

[Malanek]

InHarmsWay, yes that is what Shepard should be arguing. It's a chance to get the galaxy clued up about what is coming. Shepard should be wanting this trial.

[OdanUrr]

Malanek999 wrote...

But then simply working for Cerberus is a much less grevious offence particularly when the council were aware and even condoned it. Specter status is enough to grant immunity from associating with Cerberus. Specter status is not sufficient to grant immunity from killing 300,000 civilians.

Plus, this isn't even about proof. This is about politics and the Batarians being extremely, and understandably, f**ked off.

The Council makes it clear to Shepard that they consider Cerberus an enemy, so I'm not sure how far his Spectre status shields him from his own "employers."

@InHarmsWay: There's only one problem with that defense: proving that the Reapers actually exist.

Modifié par OdanUrr, 22 juin 2011 - 04:52 .

[Polka14]

I am willing to trust Bioware on this but this entire concept of a trial sounds ridiculous.

First, "commander" (should be "Captain") Shepard is not answerable to the Alliance and if he/she is then there should be a dialogue to tell them that he/she isn't going peacefully. 300,000 Batarians is nothing compared to billions or trillions that could be wiped out as a result of a failure to delay the Reaper advance. And that system is ground zero for the Reaper invasion so their deaths would be as Legion would say "Irrelevant". Am I wrong? I know that is what I would have done in her place.

And second, I don't see how a trial could be done according to the story. Shepard would understand that the Galaxy needs him/her actively fighting the Reaper threat not locked in some remote military facility on some unknown planet where not even the Illusive Man or the Shadow Broker could find him/her as a result of falling into Alliance custody. It makes no sense because the Alliance would be unlikely to run any kind of trial that could bring attention towards the Reapers. They don't need to start mass panic and rioting from one end of the galaxy to the other so there would be no platform for Shepard to reveal the great threats towards the Galaxy.

Any kind of trial would be made to prevent conflict between two hated enemies and I would think my Commander Shepard would consider the safety of the Galaxy as more important then some poor attempt to assign blame on her for doing what was needed.

[InHarmsWay]

OdanUrr wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

But then simply working for Cerberus is a much less grevious offence particularly when the council were aware and even condoned it. Specter status is enough to grant immunity from associating with Cerberus. Specter status is not sufficient to grant immunity from killing 300,000 civilians.

Plus, this isn't even about proof. This is about politics and the Batarians being extremely, and understandably, f**ked off.

The Council makes it clear to Shepard that they consider Cerberus an enemy, so I'm not sure how far his Spectre status shields him from his own "employers."

@InHarmsWay: There's only one problem with that defense: proving that the Reapers actually exist.

InHarmsWay wrote...

I have my defense planned.

NOT GUILTY BY REASON OF NECESSITY

In
legal terms, a person can argue that he/she cannot be held liable for a
crime they comitted because it was by committing that crime, they were
able to twart a greater harm. For example, a person can argue that they
cannot be held liable for driving drunk, because they need to escape
some kidnappers.

To successfully argue necessity, the accused must prove 4 conditions.

1) The harm he/she sought to avoid must outweigh the harm they committed.
2) He/She had no legal/reasonable alternative.
3) He/She ceased the conduct as soon as the danger passed.
4) He/She did not create the danger they sought to avoid.

So the argument goes like this.

1)
The harm Shepard sought to avoid was the immediate extinction of all
life in the galaxy which cost 300, 000 Batarian lives as opposed to
trillions.
2) Due to being drugged and knocked out, there was no time
to create or find a reasonable alternative to destroying the Alpha
Relay.
3) Shepard ceased killing hundreds of thousands of Batarians
as soon as the immediate invasion of the Reapers was thwarted,
termporarily.
4) Shepard did not create the Reapers.

Of course this defense will be 100% effective once the Reaper war is over.