37 réponses à ce sujet

[Rolling Flame]

I believe that, in Mass Effect 3, enemy shields should regenerate after a short period of time, as it adds to the difficulty of the game. In Mass Effect, it was all well and good if you brought an enemy's shields down, but then there was the pressure of killing them before they ducked away. Mass Effect 2 removed this urgency; once shields were gone, on most enemies, they were gone forever, leaving foes ripe for the picking. I also believe the lack of shield recharge made it more appealing to stay in one location for extended periods of time, because if they did choose to move to a new position, it wouldn't really aid them in any way; they could be cleaned up later.

[Sgt Stryker]

Sure, as long as my thermal clips regenerate as well.

[JLBoyyy]

I see nothing wrong with that. I mean, Shepard and the squad have it, shouldn't the enemy AI have it to fit the "realism" that Bioware has?

[Bozorgmehr]

No thanks.

In ME2 Vorcha can recharge their armor and all Geth can regen shields, plus most elites (BS Legionaries, Centurions, Commanders, Engineers, etc) - that's enough imo. There's already some complaining about powers not being useful due to enemy protection; this has never been an issue for me, but having to keep stipping defenses over and over again doesn't sound fun.

[Rolling Flame]

While Vorcha and Geth do regen shields/armour quite regularly, that is because of an ability (Fortification and Geth Shield Boost, respectively) the elites don't always, and once again, it is due to Shield Boost, not their shield kicking in.

I like to think that if implemented, shields wouldn't charge instantly, or at the enemy's will, because we all know how frustrating it was when enemies spammed Shield Boost in Mass Effect. Instead. they would regen slowly, and only after 10 seconds or so, giving the player a lot of time to finish them. The shields would not regenerate if enemies were shot before the 10 seconds was up, or would halt if interrupted.

[mithikx]

Maybe have it as a difficulty thing?
i.e. "normal" won't have it but "hard" will?
I always like a challenge provided it'd be done right.

[Fairhammer]

mithikx wrote...

Maybe have it as a difficulty thing?
i.e. "normal" won't have it but "hard" will?
I always like a challenge provided it'd be done right.

Something like this would fit to me..

[Kadzin]

mithikx wrote...

Maybe have it as a difficulty thing?
i.e. "normal" won't have it but "hard" will?
I always like a challenge provided it'd be done right.

As long as the mobs don't spawn as "Extra strong" and "Lightning Enchanted" at the same time.

[Rolling Flame]

mithikx wrote...

Maybe have it as a difficulty thing?
i.e. "normal" won't have it but "hard" will?
I always like a challenge provided it'd be done right.

I've got no problems with that. Keep in mind, that on normal most enemies don't have shields, so it wouldn't really apply, but something like this could be implemented for the difficulty below Hardcore (can't remember the name).

[UJN]

mithikx wrote...

Maybe have it as a difficulty thing?
i.e. "normal" won't have it but "hard" will?
I always like a challenge provided it'd be done right.

This sounds right.

[ZLurps]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Sure, as long as my thermal clips regenerate as well.

This. Enemies already have an unlimited ammo.

[Raxxman]

mithikx wrote...

Maybe have it as a difficulty thing?
i.e. "normal" won't have it but "hard" will?
I always like a challenge provided it'd be done right.

This is how it should be, enemies with a billion hp are boring, they don't require any new combat tactics, just an overuse of the old ones. If their shields regen like shepards, then you need to be aggressive to get kills when they duck out of combat for a few seconds.

If you don't like, turn down the difficulty.

[Someone With Mass]

I find the few enemies that do have regenerative shields/health to be annoying on harder difficulties, so no.

[Pharos]

I'd rather fight enemies who fight smarter on harder difficulties rather than just having to shoot them repeatedly...that said, if enemies gear behaved the same way as ours I wouldn't mind.

I also liked the way Operation Flashpoint (DR) worked too, where putting the difficulty up reduced the number of visual aids (down to none) rather than making the enemies either stronger or smarter.

[ZLurps]

Raxxman wrote...

mithikx wrote...

Maybe have it as a difficulty thing?
i.e. "normal" won't have it but "hard" will?
I always like a challenge provided it'd be done right.

This is how it should be, enemies with a billion hp are boring, they don't require any new combat tactics, just an overuse of the old ones. If their shields regen like shepards, then you need to be aggressive to get kills when they duck out of combat for a few seconds.

If you don't like, turn down the difficulty.

Basically I like this idea, but I wonder if it would limit game design choises regarding battles and player choise regarding play style too much.

In ME2 we had missions where we needed to defend squadmate or something against enemy waves. Say, we needed to defend position near a chasm. There is one of our squadmates who tries to repair / extend bridge over chasm we need to cover this squadmate from enemy fire coming from other side of chasm.
Problem, there isn't a way to get ammo drops from forces on other side of chasm before you get that bridge fixed. Recarging enemy shields could create a scenario where player gets stuck because s/he runs out of ammo and no biotic in party.

It's debatable if that would be good or bad thing: On PC with mouse aiming skilled players can easily headshot enemies but on consoles I don't know...

Then, fighting against waves of super durable enemies can get tedious. However, personally I feel that would still be better than waves of unlimited enemies.

Modifié par ZLurps, 21 juin 2011 - 10:03 .

[The BS Police]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Sure, as long as my thermal clips regenerate as well.

[Shepard Lives]

I think we should have strong but non-regenerating armor and weaker but regenerating shields.

I also think we should do away with the weapon rock-paper-scissors thing and tie damage resistance to ammo types and powers. For instance, using a shotgun or a pistol against shields or armor shouldn't make a difference (aside from the damage/accuracy balance inherent to the weapon), but using cryo / incendiary / disruptor rounds (or concussive shot/warp) should.

[Raxxman]

ZLurps wrote...

Basically I like this idea, but I wonder if it would limit game design choises regarding battles and player choise regarding play style too much.

In ME2 we had missions where we needed to defend squadmate or something against enemy waves. Say, we needed to defend position near a chasm. There is one of our squadmates who tries to repair / extend bridge over chasm we need to cover this squadmate from enemy fire coming from other side of chasm.
Problem, there isn't a way to get ammo drops from forces on other side of chasm before you get that bridge fixed. Recarging enemy shields could create a scenario where player gets stuck because s/he runs out of ammo and no biotic in party.

It's debatable if that would be good or bad thing: On PC with mouse aiming skilled players can easily headshot enemies but on consoles I don't know...

Then, fighting against waves of super durable enemies can get tedious. However, personally I feel that would still be better than waves of unlimited enemies.

A really simple solution would be to give you periodic ammo drops.

Thermal clip limitations are a bit stupid as well, they're way smaller than ammo mags, you should be able to carry lots of them.

[CajNatalie]

I disagree.
Almost everything that had a shield/armor bar in the first place on Veteran and below could recharge their defenses anyway. We don't need lowly mooks joining the crew.

With the whole thermals system, Insanity has enough to drain your shots for non-combat classes without suddenly regenning shields on some stupid pawn.
Plus, it further reduces the versatility of biotics if enemies won't stay unprotected.
A very viable strategy in Mass Effect 2 is speedily stripping defensed from multiple enemies to set them up for an area of effect attack of some kind. I've learned to play some parts of Insanity by only considering the protection bar and ignoring health, since once an enemy's down to HP, a quick cryo or biotic attack will make them killable in an instant thanks to the double damage boost each provides.
This strategy is one of the main reasons I'm able to say biotics are still useful as hell on Insanity. Without it... well BioWare would be making a stupid mistake unless they remove some limitations on biotics elsewhere.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 21 juin 2011 - 11:57 .

[The Twilight God]

Rolling Flame wrote...

While Vorcha and Geth do regen shields/armour quite regularly, that is because of an ability (Fortification and Geth Shield Boost, respectively) the elites don't always, and once again, it is due to Shield Boost, not their shield kicking in.

I like to think that if implemented, shields wouldn't charge instantly, or at the enemy's will, because we all know how frustrating it was when enemies spammed Shield Boost in Mass Effect. Instead. they would regen slowly, and only after 10 seconds or so, giving the player a lot of time to finish them. The shields would not regenerate if enemies were shot before the 10 seconds was up, or would halt if interrupted.

There shields can regenerate all they want as long as their shields and health are as weak/low as Shepard's.

[MegaBadExample]

No! I'm playing on Insanity. I don't need this!!!!!!!!

[ForgottenWarrior]

In Mass Effect 2 enemies already have a rechargeable shields and biotic barriers - they regenerate in 20-30 seconds. But I want faster, at least on Insanity. Because i play insanity not for achievements.

[Pride Demon]

Rolling Flame wrote...

I believe that, in Mass Effect 3, enemy shields should regenerate after a short period of time, as it adds to the difficulty of the game. In Mass Effect, it was all well and good if you brought an enemy's shields down, but then there was the pressure of killing them before they ducked away. Mass Effect 2 removed this urgency; once shields were gone, on most enemies, they were gone forever, leaving foes ripe for the picking. I also believe the lack of shield recharge made it more appealing to stay in one location for extended periods of time, because if they did choose to move to a new position, it wouldn't really aid them in any way; they could be cleaned up later.

It may be difficult to notice, but they do already in ME2 only much slower than in ME1, add to this a more dynamic combat than ME1 had and you'll see it's difficult to ever see an enemy shield recharging...
On harder difficulties it happened me often to see an enemy low on health but with full shields, and I'm not talking about the Geth with their shield boost, but of actual organic enemies like "Blue Suns Commanders", etc...

I wondered why and did some research: apparently it's like with Shep, they regenerate if left alone (that is not shot at) for some time, only the recharge time is much longer that what takes Shep and his/her squaddies to regenerate theirs... On lower difficulties it's hard to notice, since enemies stay in cover less and generally tend to die quickly after their defenses have been stripped, but on higher difficulties is more noticeable...

You can try: strip the shield of an enemy, then make sure you (and your allies) don't shoot or use powers on said enemy for some time, the shield will eventually be back up at full strength... It always worked for me (though getting your allies not to shoot or use powers on unprotected enemies is a tad bit challenging)...

As a side note, unlike with your squad, where Shields, Armor and Biotic Barriers all regenerate, enemies only naturally regenerate shields and biotic barriers (Vorcha Armor doesn't coun't as they don't actually regenerate it, they create a new one, and it's a power they only use once as far as I know)...

^EDIT: Ninja'd by ForgottenWarrior...

Modifié par Pride Demon, 21 juin 2011 - 12:47 .

[Raxxman]

ForgottenWarrior wrote...

In Mass Effect 2 enemies already have a rechargeable shields and biotic barriers - they regenerate in 20-30 seconds. But I want faster, at least on Insanity. Because i play insanity not for achievements.

As has been said they recharge via abilities not a natural recharge like shepard has.

I  want all cerberus soliders to have rechargable shields on Insanity. They're supposed to be elite shock toops.

There seems to be an issue with people wanting insanity to be a tough combat arena, and people who want to play through on insanty for bragging rights.

I think we both fall in the former catagory. I want a combat challenge, I want to be beaten, shut the game down for a bit while I cool down, relog and hand that battle it's flabby little butt. ME1 and 2 fail to do this because all they basically do is pump up the HP of the enemy. Making it it a case of simply grinding them down slowly.

I always play games on the hardest difficulty and the one thing I am noticing is that games are getting easier.

[ZLurps]

Pride Demon wrote...

Rolling Flame wrote...

I believe that, in Mass Effect 3, enemy shields should regenerate after a short period of time, ...snip...

It may be difficult to notice, but they do already in ME2 only much slower than in ME1, add to this a more dynamic combat than ME1 had and you'll see it's difficult to ever see an enemy shield recharging...
On harder difficulties it happened me often to see an enemy low on health but with full shields, and I'm not talking about the Geth with their shield boost, but of actual organic enemies like "Blue Suns Commanders", etc...

I wondered why and did some research: apparently it's like with Shep, they regenerate if left alone (that is not shot at) for some time, only the recharge time is much longer that what takes Shep and his/her squaddies to regenerate theirs... On lower difficulties it's hard to notice, since enemies stay in cover less and generally tend to die quickly after their defenses have been stripped, but on higher difficulties is more noticeable...

You can try: strip the shield of an enemy, then make sure you (and your allies) don't shoot or use powers on said enemy for some time, the shield will eventually be back up at full strength... It always worked for me (though getting your allies not to shoot or use powers on unprotected enemies is a tad bit challenging)...

As a side note, unlike with your squad, where Shields, Armor and Biotic Barriers all regenerate, enemies only naturally regenerate shields and biotic barriers (Vorcha Armor doesn't coun't as they don't actually regenerate it, they create a new one, and it's a power they only use once as far as I know)...

^EDIT: Ninja'd by ForgottenWarrior...

This is a good post! I suspected it sometimes but took OP's post about this as valid information. Also, I haven't played but on on normal difficulty setting.

Makes me appreciate ME2 combat mechanics and balancing more.