243 réponses à ce sujet

[Siansonea]

PureMethodActor wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

My question about the illustration above: Why would her eyes glow? I can see that her eyes might glow through the helmet, some kind of reflection from her retinas bouncing off the inside of the helmet surface, but realistically, why would eyes glow? I know that a person using biotics can have glowing eyes, but a non-biotic person with glowing eyes doesn't make anatomical sense to me. Asari eyes are unusual because the can either "go black" or glow, but again, that's asari and they're naturally biotic. I always thought the "going black" was an involuntary response, the eyes protecting themselves from light as the asari's senses focus inward. I envision either a nictitating membrane, or some sort of "squid ink" substance that comes out of a reservoir-like lachrymal gland and into a small void between two layers of the sclera, and then back into the reservoir. But glowing eyes on a quarian? Is it a cybernetic contact lens?

Its based on the fact that Tali's eyes glow through the mask, and that its either speculated or confirmed that Quarian eyes are bioluminescent, therefore always glowing.

The image I posted I think is awesome because of that. Since hearing about the bioluminescense, I picture Tali's eyes like that always.

Can a dev or someone who can look for a previous dev comment answer whether Quarian eyes are bioluminescent or not?

Hmm, while I don't object to bioluminescence per se, I do think bioluminscent eyes don't make a lot of sense. That's the organ that collects light from the environment to be processed as vision in the brain, therefore if the eye itself is glowing with bioluminescence, it's going to severely hamper the person's vision. There really is no biological reason for an eye to emit light, since it is collecting light. An eye can and does often reflect light, but that's usually in a low-light situation where the pupil is almost fully dilated.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 22 juin 2011 - 03:10 .

[S.A.K]

The book already said about what quarians look like and they seem to resemble humans closely:
Quarians are generally shorter and of slighter build than humans. Quarians have an endoskeleton, lips, teeth, and two eyes with eyelids and tear ducts; they also have three thick fingers on both hands which include a thumb and an index finger, as well as three toes on each foot. Their lower legs are bowed backwards significantly, compared to asari or humans. Aside from hands and legs, their general body shape and sexual dimorphism is similar to humans. Their ears or ear analogues differ in a noticeable fashion from those of humans, with references made to "what [passes] for the quarian version of an ear".
So other than their years, legs and number of fingers, they might look very human.

[Siansonea]

S.A.K wrote...

The book already said about what quarians look like and they seem to resemble humans closely:
Quarians are generally shorter and of slighter build than humans. Quarians have an endoskeleton, lips, teeth, and two eyes with eyelids and tear ducts; they also have three thick fingers on both hands which include a thumb and an index finger, as well as three toes on each foot. Their lower legs are bowed backwards significantly, compared to asari or humans. Aside from hands and legs, their general body shape and sexual dimorphism is similar to humans. Their ears or ear analogues differ in a noticeable fashion from those of humans, with references made to "what [passes] for the quarian version of an ear".
So other than their years, legs and number of fingers, they might look very human.

There is a lot of room for artistic interpretation here. No mention is made of hair, fingernails, etc. The skin colors and textures are not mentioned either.

[Soapy86]

I always imagined Quarians looking like a more humanoid version of the Kaminoans from Star Wars.

[S.A.K]

Siansonea II wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

The book already said about what quarians look like and they seem to resemble humans closely:
Quarians are generally shorter and of slighter build than humans. Quarians have an endoskeleton, lips, teeth, and two eyes with eyelids and tear ducts; they also have three thick fingers on both hands which include a thumb and an index finger, as well as three toes on each foot. Their lower legs are bowed backwards significantly, compared to asari or humans. Aside from hands and legs, their general body shape and sexual dimorphism is similar to humans. Their ears or ear analogues differ in a noticeable fashion from those of humans, with references made to "what [passes] for the quarian version of an ear".
So other than their years, legs and number of fingers, they might look very human.

There is a lot of room for artistic interpretation here. No mention is made of hair, fingernails, etc. The skin colors and textures are not mentioned either.

Yup, there is still a lot of mistary. But atleast we can be sure she won't look like predator

[Orion1836]

After all the build-up, I think BioWare is going to show us Tali's face. If they're smart, they won't even mention the reveal and let it be a complete and total surprise to the player when it happens.

I don't think we have much to worry about when it comes to the final product. True, there will be some people who won't be satisfied, but remember... these are the artists who brought us all the alien characters in the first place. They *definitely* have the chops to create a fitting look for Tali and the Quarians as a whole. Whether the final product "measures up" to our personal image of her or not, I think we'll all agree that it makes sense and looks good. When we hear Liz Sroka's voice come from the BioWare design of Tali's face, it's going to sound right (though I hope they remember to drop the synthesizer this time when the mask comes off).

I think one big clue about what they "actually" look like comes from the design of their suits. One of the first things I noticed while playing the original Mass Effect was that the Geth looked a lot like the Quarian envirosuits. I don't think this is an accident; I believe the Quarians made the Geth in their own image. Considering that the Geth were designed before the Quarians were expelled from their homeworld, I think it makes sense that some of the Quarians' physical features are expressed in the geth, and by extension, in their suits. The metal plates on the side of their face, for instance, makes me think they have some kind of protruding jaw, kind of like a Turian's, but not extending in front of their teeth. The cowls on women make me think that they do indeed have hair, and that the cowl design is a way of expressing how they would style it, if they still had the capability to do so. Do they wear long hair inside their suits? Probably not, but that doesn't mean that it can't be kept short.

I used to consider vespaz' Tali to be my "canon" one, but since seeing this version, I can't help but imagine her this way:



This look combines physical aspects we already know exist in the galaxy: three-digit hands and feet, as seen in multiple species, head fringes like those on Turians and Asari, and facial structure like that seen in Humans and Asari. If the Protheans did actively seed races, it would make sense that they would share certain characteristics. Calisto's design makes sense and is simultaneously both familiar and alien - very fitting for Tali. If BioWare's final product looks anything like this, I will be one very happy gamer.

As an aside, I would hope that only those who romanced Tali are the ones who get to see the reveal. Anything else would go against what she herself said about the act of revealing it.

Modifié par Orion1836, 22 juin 2011 - 04:27 .

[comrade gando]

^QFT

[CroGamer002]

@Orion1836 no pink/purple skin and I'm in.

[Puzzlewell]

PureMethodActor wrote...
Hmm, I never really noticed a lot of what you described, but seeing it now, I can almost see Tali's face as having a certain cat-like aspect to it. It certainly would remind a lot of people of Juhani, thats for sure . And Juhani is a character people still wish was a love interest in vanilla-KOTOR. Either way, I love the pic I posted because the look and her expression there represent her personality. Its like, it jumps at me that THAT's Tali.

I'm sometimes good at taking the odd outlook on facial structures.  I mostly took the fangs and the cheek-ridges to look a bit like a cat's facial structure (of course they don't have ridges though) but it almost made the face look a bit angled like the feline facial structure. Hard to explain why my mind drew the parallel. Aww, Juhani was wonderful so it almost would be a nice little throwback to her if she and Tali and even somewhat similar facial structures. :3 I'd say out of all the fanarts I've seen, this one is definitely my favorite because it incorporates exactly what we've been discussing: Still relatively humanoid but very clearly alien. <3

This topic makes me a lot happier than I was expecting. It's lead me to some very interesting thought processes on how Quarians might look and I must say, we have some rather intelligent members here (Sian's talk of asari eyes just made me glee with how well thought out it was. Yes, I am easily pleased. )

[ReallyRue]

Siansonea II wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

The book already said about what quarians look like and they seem to resemble humans closely:
Quarians are generally shorter and of slighter build than humans. Quarians have an endoskeleton, lips, teeth, and two eyes with eyelids and tear ducts; they also have three thick fingers on both hands which include a thumb and an index finger, as well as three toes on each foot. Their lower legs are bowed backwards significantly, compared to asari or humans. Aside from hands and legs, their general body shape and sexual dimorphism is similar to humans. Their ears or ear analogues differ in a noticeable fashion from those of humans, with references made to "what [passes] for the quarian version of an ear".
So other than their years, legs and number of fingers, they might look very human.

There is a lot of room for artistic interpretation here. No mention is made of hair, fingernails, etc. The skin colors and textures are not mentioned either.

Exactly. You could say drell resemble humans closely (certainly compared to turians or krogan), but they don't look nearly as human as asari. So aside from ruling out the possibility of quarians looking like turians/krogan/salarians behind those helmets (which was a given anyway), it doesn't really change the possibility of them looking distinctly un-human in some ways.

[Parion]

Eyes:- There are several good reasons for her eyes to glow. They may have been used to attract prey or symbiotic species, may act as a "crest" to signal romantic interest to potential mates, just be seen as an attractive feature such as bust size in humans, or may act as a manner of communication with intensity and wavelength varying to apply subtext in the same manner as human body language.
It could also have been engineered in as a way for them to interact with thier suit systems, with the glow providing backlighting so that cameras in the suit can pick up eye possition more easily.
If so, the glow may be in a wavelength that quarians simply can't percieve.

In any case, I think it's safe to assume that the light produced is unidirectional, away from the actual workings of the eye.

Hair:- It's be nice to see another species with hair equivalent. I could see quarian "hair" actually being living nerve cells, allowing direct neural control over thier suits, or implanted fiberoptic strands as a tech equivalent.
Possibly it acts as an antenna, being the quarian "ear".
Even if it's just normal hair, a simple reason for them to keep it long-ish is pride, something they maintain despite the anoyance.

I'd like to see her skin being similar to fish scales.

As for realism, well, realism went out the window the moment we had aliens that people can interact with in any meaningful way.
We also don't know how much effect the reapers have had on the species at an evolutionary level. If they've meddled with it so that life that eventually evolved has a greater change of developing capabilities that they find desireable, such as minds suseptable to indoctrination, then it's perfectly acceptable that other physiological traits are similarly effected.


One final note about implants; a funny thing about quarian physiology is that implants are arguably easier for them to apply than with other races. Thier weakened immune system means that they have a lower chance of rejecting them, and since it's based on adaptation any immune response is more likely to involve altering to include the implant rather than attacking it.

Modifié par Parion, 22 juin 2011 - 02:50 .

[xentar]

So, yes, to add to my initial statement, her eyes don't really seem to glow, what glare there is seems to be simply a reflection of the surroundings and, perhaps, some sort of HUD in her helmet.

[Siansonea]

xentar wrote...

So, yes, to add to my initial statement, her eyes don't really seem to glow, what glare there is seems to be simply a reflection of the surroundings and, perhaps, some sort of HUD in her helmet.

I also tend to think that the appearance of glow is light interacting with the inner surface of her helmet, which is obviously some advanced form of "one-way glass" I'm sure that quarian helmets have powerful UV filters, and probably also filter light in other ways, and the obscuring effect of their faces is an unfortunate property of the material. Obviously it's much more important for a quarian's helmet to be optimized for the wearer, rather than for an observer. 

[Siansonea]

PureMethodActor wrote...

Parion wrote...

Eyes:- There are several good reasons for her eyes to glow. They may have been used to attract prey or symbiotic species, may act as a "crest" to signal romantic interest to potential mates, just be seen as an attractive feature such as bust size in humans, or may act as a manner of communication with intensity and wavelength varying to apply subtext in the same manner as human body language.
It could also have been engineered in as a way for them to interact with thier suit systems, with the glow providing backlighting so that cameras in the suit can pick up eye possition more easily.
If so, the glow may be in a wavelength that quarians simply can't percieve.

All reasonable and logical explanations for Quarians' eyes to have any sort of glow :happy:


@xentar- I don't know... your theory on what the brightness of the eyes is caused by would be a good one if the positioning wouldn't be so completely fixed. The glow of the eyes is in a set location, not as dots going around the glass part like the manner in which light normally would reflect off of glass. To clarify, if the eye glow was a mere reflection, the reflected light would be in different places on the glass, different positions depending on camera angle, as light bends; but its not moving around in camera angles of Tali or other Quarians. The glow is in a fixed position, showing us exactly where the eyes are and proving that the glow isn't from a reflection but from the eyes themselves. Now whether the eye glow is biological or due to cybernetic enhancements I just don't know.

Hmmm, I don't think it works that way even if it's a reflection or a refraction. Light is a complicated thing, it can't even properly be called a "substance" since it's largely insubstantial. I see Tali's helmet properties as bouncing light from the inside of the helmet onto her sclera/retina, and that bounced light penetrating the helmet at a visible wavelength through the helmet. Light does some strange stuff sometimes. I still think that makes more sense than any sort of bioluminescence. I can't think of any organism that has bioluminous eyes, it seems counterproductive from a practical standpoint. Even if quarians have a different visible light perception gamut than humans, the eyes as seen through the helmet are clearly emitting/reflecting/refracting light in the portion of the EM spectrum perceived as visible light to humans. Quarians would have to have a dramatically different visible light gamut from humans for them to be unable to perceive the bioluminescence of their own eyes. Also, if they couldn't perceive it, than what evolutionary purpose does it serve?

Modifié par Siansonea II, 22 juin 2011 - 07:13 .

[ShadowLordXXX]

My guess is Quarian's eyes glow for the same reason dog/cat's eyes glow in the dark

This specifically:
http://en.wikipedia....Tapetum_lucidum

The tapetum lucidum (Latin: "bright tapestry", plural tapeta lucida)[1] is a layer of tissue in the eye of many vertebrate animals.[2] It lies immediately behind or sometimes within the retina. It reflects visible light back through the retina, increasing the light available to the photoreceptors. This improves vision in low-light conditions, but can cause the perceived image to be blurry from the interference of the reflected light.[citation needed] The tapetum lucidum contributes to the superior night vision of some animals. Many of these animals are nocturnal, especially carnivores that hunt their prey at night, while others are deep sea animals

Eyeshine is a visible effect of the tapetum lucidum. When a light is shone into the eye of an animal having a tapetum lucidum, the pupil appears to glow. Eyeshine can be seen in many animals, in nature and in flash photographs. In low light, a hand-held flashlight is sufficient to produce eyeshine that is highly visible to humans (despite our inferior night vision); this technique, spotlighting, is used by naturalists and hunters to search for animals at night. Eyeshine occurs in a wide variety of colors including white, blue, green, yellow, pink and red. However, because eyeshine is a form of iridescence, the color varies slightly with the angle at which it is seen and the color of the source light.

And given that Quarians live on a planet with a dimmer star this would seem like something that would make sense for them..

[Siansonea]

ShadowLordXXX wrote...

My guess is Quarian's eyes glow for the same reason dog/cat's eyes glow in the dark

This specifically:
http://en.wikipedia....Tapetum_lucidum

The tapetum lucidum (Latin: "bright tapestry", plural tapeta lucida)[1] is a layer of tissue in the eye of many vertebrate animals.[2] It lies immediately behind or sometimes within the retina. It reflects visible light back through the retina, increasing the light available to the photoreceptors. This improves vision in low-light conditions, but can cause the perceived image to be blurry from the interference of the reflected light.[citation needed] The tapetum lucidum contributes to the superior night vision of some animals. Many of these animals are nocturnal, especially carnivores that hunt their prey at night, while others are deep sea animals

Eyeshine is a visible effect of the tapetum lucidum. When a light is shone into the eye of an animal having a tapetum lucidum, the pupil appears to glow. Eyeshine can be seen in many animals, in nature and in flash photographs. In low light, a hand-held flashlight is sufficient to produce eyeshine that is highly visible to humans (despite our inferior night vision); this technique, spotlighting, is used by naturalists and hunters to search for animals at night. Eyeshine occurs in a wide variety of colors including white, blue, green, yellow, pink and red. However, because eyeshine is a form of iridescence, the color varies slightly with the angle at which it is seen and the color of the source light.

And given that Quarians live on a planet with a dimmer star this would seem like something that would make sense for them..

I agree, and since there is the helmet, perhaps the perceived glow of the entire sclera surface in addition to the iris/pupil is due to light scattering or somesuch. But without the helmet, I would imagine that a quarian's pupils would shrink to pinpoints, and the eyeshine phenomenon would not be present under ordinary lighting conditions.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 22 juin 2011 - 07:37 .

[Siansonea]

PureMethodActor wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Hmmm, I don't think it works that way even if it's a reflection or a refraction. Light is a complicated thing, it can't even properly be called a "substance" since it's largely insubstantial. I see Tali's helmet properties as bouncing light from the inside of the helmet onto her sclera/retina, and that bounced light penetrating the helmet at a visible wavelength through the helmet. Light does some strange stuff sometimes. I still think that makes more sense than any sort of bioluminescence. I can't think of any organism that has bioluminous eyes, it seems counterproductive from a practical standpoint. Even if quarians have a different visible light perception gamut than humans, the eyes as seen through the helmet are clearly emitting/reflecting/refracting light in the portion of the EM spectrum perceived as visible light to humans. Quarians would have to have a dramatically different visible light gamut from humans for them to be unable to perceive the bioluminescence of their own eyes. Also, if they couldn't perceive it, than what evolutionary purpose does it serve?

... I'm still not totally convinced. Even if light can do strange things, why and what possible source would bounce light STRAIGHT into her retinas and reflect back exactly as such? Some consistency needs to be maintained in light physics. Light would reflect differently at different angles. At some angles, it may be dots, at other angles, light is reflecting off half the mask, making that half shiny. Other times light would be reflected in medium-sized chunks. In other angles, there would be a line of light visible. but the fact remains that Tali, and other Quarians', eyes are either bright or reflecting in the exact same position at every angle, so thats why I believe so strongly that it has to be light coming from the eyes themselves, be it biological, cybernetics, or even goggles that Quarians wear inside the helmets (don't know, just coming up with another possibility, as unlikely as it may be).

As for unperceived evolutionary traits: as said in the post I quoted, it could be used to attract mates or something similar. However, if its an unperceived trait, does it need to serve a purpose? A good example is the Human appendix. We still have no idea why we have one when we no longer need it after evolving into Cro Magnon and our digestive systems adjusted. Yet each human today is born with one, just a useless organ sitting in our abdomen...

CalamityRanger wrote...

I'm sometimes good at taking the odd outlook on facial structures. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie] I
mostly took the fangs and the cheek-ridges to look a bit like a cat's
facial structure (of course they don't have ridges though) but it almost
made the face look a bit angled like the feline facial structure. Hard
to explain why my mind drew the parallel. Aww, Juhani was wonderful so
it almost would be a nice little throwback to her if she and Tali and
even somewhat similar facial structures. :3

Another similarity between Juhani and Tali: Slavic accents used for each of their respective species [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

I don't think it's a matter of light reflecting straight back, the light would bounce around the inside of the helmet willy-nilly, but the difference in reflectance of the eyes themselves would cause them to be picked out more strongly than the skin of her face, which would have different light-reflecting properties.

[Siansonea]

PureMethodActor wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I don't think it's a matter of light reflecting straight back, the light would bounce around the inside of the helmet willy-nilly, but the difference in reflectance of the eyes themselves would cause them to be picked out more strongly than the skin of her face, which would have different light-reflecting properties.

Thats very plausible in the case of Quarians and Tali. I wouldn't mind this as much, either, though I'm still really hoping they have shiny glowy eyes

Oh I understand, it might have a visual "cool" factor for a lot of people. My concern is that to whatever extent it is possible, there should be some attempt scientific plausibility. I've always thought of quarian eyes as being similar to a reflective surface behind a one-way mirror, reflecting the light coming through the mirror, whereas the non-reflective surfaces around them would not. Take off the helmet and you still have eyes that are reflective, but they wouldn't glow per se, they would just seem very glossy and would often have significant "catch lights" that are stronger than normal, like asari eyes under normal circumstances.

[DoNotIngest]

Occured to me to point out that TIMmy's eyes glow, and he has no problem seeing out of them. Shouldn't matter if he's reaper-ized or not, they'd still work the same way.

[Siansonea]

DoNotIngest wrote...

Occured to me to point out that TIMmy's eyes glow, and he has no problem seeing out of them. Shouldn't matter if he's reaper-ized or not, they'd still work the same way.

Not necessarily. If TIMs eyes are cybernetic, they wouldn't necessarily operate the same way natural eyes would.