113 réponses à ce sujet

[Pups_of_war_76]

MrFob wrote...

Hm, weeing how that bombardment on the quarian planet in the e3 gameplay demo hurt the reaper, I could even imagine a direct hit by a dreadnought could be effective.

Do we know whether ships can keep their barriers up in a planetary atmosphere? 

If it was unshielded, then that sequence didn't mean much. 

[Blacklash93]

So where exactly is the Reapers' main gun on the spine? I can't see anything in that area. The top half of a reaper looks like nothing more than useless bulk to me.

Also, where do we see a Reaper bombarded on the quarian homeworld? Is that the demo with the Reaper walker and the turret chase scene?

Modifié par Blacklash93, 22 juin 2011 - 02:27 .

[rumination888]

marshalleck wrote...
They're working on some project that will allow them all to exist as one uploaded siingularity of gethy goodness. Legion explained it by way of analogy to the human concept of a dyson sphere...people being what they are, they took that to mean the geth are literally building a dyson sphere. Which isn't actually the case at all, but unfortunately the meme has stuck and this is what we're left with.

Pretty sure Legion wasn't referring to the concept of a dyson sphere, but to the actual size of a dyson sphere. Its a "megastructure", and the closest human equivelent to that size is a "dyson sphere".

[Pups_of_war_76]

Blacklash93 wrote...

So where exactly is the Reapers' main gun on the spine? I can't see anything in that area. The top half of a reaper looks like nothing more than useless bulk to me.

must be the same place the Destiny Ascension keeps all of its weaponry. 

[jamesp81]

Prager wrote...

Well, in the gameplay demo they had at E3 that showed Shep and Anderson fighting on Earth, the ship that blows up in the sky and makes the whole big explosion that knocks down the platform Shep and Anderson were standing on is a Dreadnought.

So I'm assuming they're not too effective, at least not when they're outnumbered like that one would have been.

EDIT: See this video at 2:12 for what I'm talking about: www.youtube.com/watch
Pretty sure it's a Dreadnought, could be wrong.

Actually I think it's a cruiser.  Dreadnoughts can't enter atmosphere.

[wombo87]

Blacklash93 wrote...

So where exactly is the Reapers' main gun on the spine? I can't see anything in that area. The top half of a reaper looks like nothing more than useless bulk to me.

I think that the model for sovereign just wasn't very detailed in ME1because the concept of the reapers design wasn't yet fully fleshed out by the devs. We'll probably be able to see these details in ME3 or at least I hope we will.

[marshalleck]

rumination888 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
They're working on some project that will allow them all to exist as one uploaded siingularity of gethy goodness. Legion explained it by way of analogy to the human concept of a dyson sphere...people being what they are, they took that to mean the geth are literally building a dyson sphere. Which isn't actually the case at all, but unfortunately the meme has stuck and this is what we're left with.

Pretty sure Legion wasn't referring to the concept of a dyson sphere, but to the actual size of a dyson sphere. Its a "megastructure", and the closest human equivelent to that size is a "dyson sphere".

Either way, the point is that he used the Dyson Sphere as an analogy, not a direct explanation of what they were building. But that's what people choose to take away from the conversation anyways. So we end up with "the geth are building a Dyson Sphere" on the forums. 

[onelifecrisis]

Pups_of_war_76 wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Pups_of_war_76 wrote...

Folks overuse that term.

A lot of sci fi over use it period.

A Deus Ex Machina is a happy ending that is unearned, and therefore emotionally vapid. 

An ending in which Shepard and the allied fleet he has been gathering are on the verge of being defeated by the Reapers until a magical, heretofor unheard of fleet of benevolent alien superbeing swoops in to save them is a Deus Ex Machina.

An ending in which the tide is turned by an artifact or technology which required much searching, desperate fighting and sacrifice to recover and ends up being difficult and costly to employ is not a Deus Ex Machina. 

You seem to be forgetting that ME3 is the third part of a trilogy and not a standalone story. Even if the DEM device were introduced 5 minutes into ME3, that's still more than two-thirds of the way into the whole story, probably without even so much as a foreshadow prior to that.

[Pups_of_war_76]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Pups_of_war_76 wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Pups_of_war_76 wrote...

Folks overuse that term.

A lot of sci fi over use it period.

A Deus Ex Machina is a happy ending that is unearned, and therefore emotionally vapid. 

An ending in which Shepard and the allied fleet he has been gathering are on the verge of being defeated by the Reapers until a magical, heretofor unheard of fleet of benevolent alien superbeing swoops in to save them is a Deus Ex Machina.

An ending in which the tide is turned by an artifact or technology which required much searching, desperate fighting and sacrifice to recover and ends up being difficult and costly to employ is not a Deus Ex Machina. 

You seem to be forgetting that ME3 is the third part of a trilogy and not a standalone story. Even if the DEM device were introduced 5 minutes into ME3, that's still more than two-thirds of the way into the whole story, probably without even so much as a foreshadow prior to that.

you're assuming that it'd be something completely new and not derieved from hints that have already been introduced into the setting. 

[wombo87]

Pups_of_war_76 wrote... must be the same place the Destiny Ascension keeps all of its weaponry.

lol can someone tell how the DA actually functions? where are its guns, engine, etc? It just looks very strange to me.

[DialupToaster]

I think the idea with dreadnaughts is to have a lack of armor and lots of guns because who needs defense if the target is dead? I think thats how ships are generally built anyways. could be wrong, most likely wrong.

[rumination888]

marshalleck wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
They're working on some project that will allow them all to exist as one uploaded siingularity of gethy goodness. Legion explained it by way of analogy to the human concept of a dyson sphere...people being what they are, they took that to mean the geth are literally building a dyson sphere. Which isn't actually the case at all, but unfortunately the meme has stuck and this is what we're left with.

Pretty sure Legion wasn't referring to the concept of a dyson sphere, but to the actual size of a dyson sphere. Its a "megastructure", and the closest human equivelent to that size is a "dyson sphere".

Either way, the point is that he used the Dyson Sphere as an analogy, not a direct explanation of what they were building. But that's what people choose to take away from the conversation anyways. So we end up with "the geth are building a Dyson Sphere" on the forums. 

I also used Dyson sphere as an analogy to its size, hence the quotations and the word "megastructure" aftwerwards. So what exactly is your point?

[MrFob]

Pups_of_war_76 wrote...

MrFob wrote...

Hm, seeing how that bombardment on the quarian planet in the e3 gameplay demo hurt the reaper, I could even imagine a direct hit by a dreadnought could be effective.

Do we know whether ships can keep their barriers up in a planetary atmosphere? 

If it was unshielded, then that sequence didn't mean much. 

*cough* corrected embarrassing typo in my previous post *cough*

What? Where were we? Ah, yes.
In fact, we do know from Revelation that the Iwo Jima, an alliance frigate can operate their barriers in the atmosphere. Unfortunately it doesn't help the ship much but the novel describes how the shields are active and have to be overcome before the ship is destroyed.

[ratzerman]

Pups_of_war_76 wrote...
you're assuming that it'd be something completely new and not derieved from hints that have already been introduced into the setting. 

Like the Great Rift Valley on Klendagon? I wanna see the gun that fired that shot sooooooo bad.

[DoNotIngest]

I just watched the video; Sovereign is LASORing the Fleet out of the sky taking no damage, and Hackett calls them off. As soon as Saren turns to ash, Harbinger crackles with red electricity, and limply falls off of the Spire. The Fleet realizes his shields are down, and Joker killsteals him.


Didn't bother read past page one, btw.

[wombo87]

That dyson sphere analogue sounds interesting. I wonder what technology the geth can come up with to fight the reapers with all that computing power, with all the geth working towards that goal.

Edit: That's depending on how far along the project is though. Does legion say if it's near completion?

Modifié par wombo87, 22 juin 2011 - 02:45 .

[1136342t54_]

Pups_of_war_76 wrote...
A Deus Ex Machina is a happy ending that is unearned, and therefore emotionally vapid. 

An ending in which Shepard and the allied fleet he has been gathering are on the verge of being defeated by the Reapers until a magical, heretofor unheard of fleet of benevolent alien superbeing swoops in to save them is a Deus Ex Machina.

An ending in which the tide is turned by an artifact or technology which required much searching, desperate fighting and sacrifice to recover and ends up being difficult and costly to employ is not a Deus Ex Machina. 

It is a major cop out that is expected when fighting enemies like the Reapers. Even if they hint at it multiple times it wouldn't make much sense and would require a lot of explaining for the reasons why the Reapers haven't found it yet. The best way for Bioware to do this is if they found a multitude of technology and allies that can help hold back the Reapers while they found out the real reason for why they cull the galaxy. Actually Bioware hinted at that being a way to stop the Reapers. Now thats a smart way to do it.

It isn't a superweapon in the traditional sense. Its more about understanding your enemy being the way to defeat them.

[onelifecrisis]

Pups_of_war_76 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Pups_of_war_76 wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Pups_of_war_76 wrote...

Folks overuse that term.

A lot of sci fi over use it period.

A Deus Ex Machina is a happy ending that is unearned, and therefore emotionally vapid. 

An ending in which Shepard and the allied fleet he has been gathering are on the verge of being defeated by the Reapers until a magical, heretofor unheard of fleet of benevolent alien superbeing swoops in to save them is a Deus Ex Machina.

An ending in which the tide is turned by an artifact or technology which required much searching, desperate fighting and sacrifice to recover and ends up being difficult and costly to employ is not a Deus Ex Machina. 

You seem to be forgetting that ME3 is the third part of a trilogy and not a standalone story. Even if the DEM device were introduced 5 minutes into ME3, that's still more than two-thirds of the way into the whole story, probably without even so much as a foreshadow prior to that.

you're assuming that it'd be something completely new and not derieved from hints that have already been introduced into the setting. 

Yes, I am, and that assumption may yet be prove to be wrong, though I doubt it. Excluding text written on arifacts found on planets that most players never even visited (and other similarly obscure "hints") I see very little in the main story of ME1+2 that could feasibly lead to a reaper-defeating plot device. I'm afraid BW are going to have to pull something out of their arse.

[1136342t54_]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Yes, I am, and that assumption may yet be prove to be wrong, though I doubt it. Excluding text written on arifacts found on planets that most players never even visited (and other similarly obscure "hints") I see very little in the main story of ME1+2 that could feasibly lead to a reaper-defeating plot device. I'm afraid BW are going to have to pull something out of their arse.

I think he mentions how some planet descriptions and info from Cerberus New Network can give hints on long forgotten civs and tech that could lead to a Reaper killing weapon. ME2 had the Klendagon Rift and that was in a planet description.

[Aimi]

Pups_of_war_76 wrote...

A Deus Ex Machina is a happy ending that is unearned, and therefore emotionally vapid. 

An ending in which Shepard and the allied fleet he has been gathering are on the verge of being defeated by the Reapers until a magical, heretofor unheard of fleet of benevolent alien superbeing swoops in to save them is a Deus Ex Machina.

An ending in which the tide is turned by an artifact or technology which required much searching, desperate fighting and sacrifice to recover and ends up being difficult and costly to employ is not a Deus Ex Machina. 

No, a deus ex machina is the unexpected and unforeshadowed intervention of any outside force - the ending that results from it does not need to be happy, it just has to be unexpected, or rather, at odds with virtually everything that had happened up to that point.  

The key is unforeshadowed.  If Mass Effect 3 has us defeating the Reapers with a giant exploding batarian spoon, regardless of the casualties taken or the happiness of the ending, it's a deus ex machina, because nothing in either of the previous games even hinted that the batarians had a giant exploding spoon that would destroy the Reapers.  (Or an ocean of killer shrimp.  You get the idea.)  If, during the climactic, bloody battle for Earth, the spoon destroys the Reapers along with most of the galaxy, including humanity, then it's still a deus ex machina despite the fact that lots of sacrifice and fighting happened.

Whereas if the solution to defeating the Reapers involves dark energy, Prothean superweapons, or the technology from the Collector base, then it's not a deus ex machina regardless of how happy the ending is, because all of that stuff has been foreshadowed in the previous games.

[onelifecrisis]

1136342t54 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Yes, I am, and that assumption may yet be prove to be wrong, though I doubt it. Excluding text written on arifacts found on planets that most players never even visited (and other similarly obscure "hints") I see very little in the main story of ME1+2 that could feasibly lead to a reaper-defeating plot device. I'm afraid BW are going to have to pull something out of their arse.

I think he mentions how some planet descriptions and info from Cerberus New Network can give hints on long forgotten civs and tech that could lead to a Reaper killing weapon. ME2 had the Klendagon Rift and that was in a planet description.

Spiel on the Cerberus Network can hardly be counted as foreshadowing, nor can a planet description that most players never even read. And besides, the Klendagon Rift was irrelevant from a plot perspective.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 22 juin 2011 - 03:26 .

[onelifecrisis]

daqs wrote...

Whereas if the solution to defeating the Reapers involves dark energy, Prothean superweapons, or the technology from the Collector base, then it's not a deus ex machina regardless of how happy the ending is, because all of that stuff has been foreshadowed in the previous games.

Do you really think that the mere mention of Dark Energy in two bits of dialogue (one from a character that doesn't even appear for some players, and the other buried in an Investigate section of one bit of dialogue) really counts as foreshadowing? Foreshadowing of what? That Dark Energy exists?

[Aimi]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Do you really think that the mere mention of Dark Energy in two bits of dialogue (one from a character that doesn't even appear for some players, and the other buried in an Investigate section of one bit of dialogue) really counts as foreshadowing? Foreshadowing of what? That Dark Energy exists?

You're forgetting, sport.  Veetor brings up dark energy on Freedom's Progress (no Investigate needed) and Tali/Kal'Reegar bring it up multiple times on Haestrom and on the Flotilla.  Not really a magnitude of difference from what you're mentioning, and it's not exactly a key plot thread or anything.  Doesn't have to be, to be "foreshadowing", though - it just has to be there.  

You're making a distinction without difference.  The fact that some of the possible avenues of approach haven't been sufficiently hinted at for you doesn't mean they don't exist and/or are irrelevant.  How many times did the Sanctuary Moon, the second Death Star, Ewoks, or any of that stuff come up in The Empire Strikes Back? 

I guess, too, that I'm being a bit too broad with how I'm applying "deus ex machina", because honestly, if something came up within the third game and the third game was about trying to figure out how to find it and use it to defeat the Reapers, then it wouldn't really be "out of the blue".  But if you spend the whole game trying to figure out how to defeat the Reapers, and thirty hours in, you've got this colossal space pretzel to defeat the Reapers, only it doesn't work in the final battle and it's a time-traveling flotilla of Austrian ironclads that saves the day, that'd be a deus ex machina.

Modifié par daqs, 22 juin 2011 - 03:37 .

[1136342t54_]

onelifecrisis wrote...
Spiel on the Cerberus Network can hardly be counted as foreshadowing, nor can a planet description that most players never even read. And besides, the Klendagon Rift was irrelevant from a plot perspective.

Tela Vasir was mentioned on Cerberus Network multiple times. The Klendagon Rift was involved in one of the most important missions of ME2. Remember when you had to board the Derelict Reaper?

[marshalleck]

daqs wrote...

 But if you spend the whole game trying to figure out how to defeat the Reapers, and thirty hours in, you've got this colossal space pretzel to defeat the Reapers,

What a twist that would be!

Modifié par marshalleck, 22 juin 2011 - 03:46 .