Alley-oop!marshalleck wrote...
daqs wrote...
But if you spend the whole game trying to figure out how to defeat the Reapers, and thirty hours in, you've got this colossal space pretzel to defeat the Reapers,
What a twist that would be!
Dreadnaughts vs Reapers
Débuté par
wombo87
, juin 21 2011 03:19
#101
Posté 22 juin 2011 - 03:46
Aimi
-
- Members
- 4 616 messages
Retour en haut
#102
Posté 22 juin 2011 - 03:46
onelifecrisis
-
- Members
- 2 829 messages
daqs wrote...
You're forgetting, sport. Veetor brings up dark energy on Freedom's Progress (no Investigate needed) and Tali/Kal'Reegar bring it up multiple times on Haestrom and on the Flotilla. Not really a magnitude of difference from what you're mentioning, and it's not exactly a key plot thread or anything. Doesn't have to be, to be "foreshadowing", though - it just has to be there.onelifecrisis wrote...
Do you really think that the mere mention of Dark Energy in two bits of dialogue (one from a character that doesn't even appear for some players, and the other buried in an Investigate section of one bit of dialogue) really counts as foreshadowing? Foreshadowing of what? That Dark Energy exists?
You're making a distinction without difference. The fact that some of the possible avenues of approach haven't been sufficiently hinted at for you doesn't mean they don't exist and/or are irrelevant. How many times did the Sanctuary Moon, the second Death Star, Ewoks, or any of that stuff come up in The Empire Strikes Back?
I wouldn't exactly hold up Return of the Jedi as a prime example of how to end a trilogy, but it serves well enough as a comparison for what we're discussing here. The Emperor was defeated (and Darth Vader turned) by Luke. The Ewoks helped ensure the victory in the battle outside which was the icing on the cake, not the central plot. The central plot revolved around Luke, his father, and the emperor. The importance of the identity of Luke's father was strongly hinted at in the first film and confirmed at the end of the second. The importance of the emperor and of Luke himself were stated in plain English at the start of the second film.
Now allow me to bring SW more in line with the ME series and Dark Energy: imagine if you will that Luke had not even appeared in Episode 4 and had been only mentioned in passing (his name and no more) in Episode 5. Then imagine he suddenly shows up in Ep 6 and defeats the emperor and Darth Vader, the pair of antagonists who until that point seemed undefeatable. DEM? Yes.
#103
Posté 22 juin 2011 - 03:48
marshalleck
-
- Members
- 15 645 messages
I couldn't resist.daqs wrote...
Alley-oop!marshalleck wrote...
daqs wrote...
But if you spend the whole game trying to figure out how to defeat the Reapers, and thirty hours in, you've got this colossal space pretzel to defeat the Reapers,
What a twist that would be!
#104
Posté 22 juin 2011 - 03:51
Reapinger
-
- Members
- 1 248 messages
marshalleck wrote...
I couldn't resist.daqs wrote...
Alley-oop!marshalleck wrote...
daqs wrote...
But if you spend the whole game trying to figure out how to defeat the Reapers, and thirty hours in, you've got this colossal space pretzel to defeat the Reapers,
What a twist that would be!
These pretzels... ARE MAKIN' ME THIRSTY!!!!
#105
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 22 juin 2011 - 03:51
Guest_Puddi III_*
Guest_Puddi III_*
-
- Guests
annihilator27 wrote...
Filament wrote...
We must upload Vista into their mothership.
Fixed
Whoa now, talk about overkill. I think a virus will suffice.
#106
Posté 22 juin 2011 - 04:58
AC5
-
- Members
- 38 messages
Alright first off the dreadnought is a terrible weapon that could only survive with the aid of political penis envy which btw I do applaud BW for portraying rather well.
The dreadnought functions on the impossible theory of sacrificing mobility for defenses so thick they can't be penetrated and, a gun so large nothing can stop it all of these traits the reapers clearly have the advantage in thus rendering the dreadnought useless.
But more importantly than that is that a fleet built for close range combat would never pass up the chance to use their FTL drives to instantly get in so close all of their opponents hull length MA cannons would be near useless.
Now for the weapon according to ME2 the Everest class dreadnought fires a 20 kilo ferrous slug at 1.3% of light speed an absolutely pathetic weapon when you compare it to what ME scientist could have made the FTL torpedo a weapon that can be fired with out the forcing the parent vessel to face the target also the launch would in no way contribute to the vessels heat. On top of that would be that the speed of the weapon would mean the torp could be made with little no guidance thus enabling a too dumb to jam system. Above this though would be that a mere 5 ton torpedo would be 250 times heavier and at least 77 times faster which would then guarantee it's immunity to GUARDIAN systems and it's sheer force would bring serious doubt in kinetic barriers ability either deflect or block the attack much less from multiple attackers, this is of course assuming they are even designed to activate against such a fast moving threat.
While such a weapon would indeed be extremely expensive it's very existence would give commanders the motivation to leave those glorified bombardment platforms in the parades and museums where they belong. Even if the Kodiak shuttle is the smallest FTL platform possible it would just make such a weapon that much more dangerous although less numerous. Also there is nothing with in the ME lore to suggest that any race even the reapers are prepared to deal with a threat such as this. While I do not mean this as a attach FTL weapons and you will beat the reapers easily as their numbers are still immense but, it would still be nice if humanity was allowed to draw from the lessons we so painfully taught each other.
Anyway sorry for the WoT It just always bothered me about how bad the people of ME are at killing each other.
The dreadnought functions on the impossible theory of sacrificing mobility for defenses so thick they can't be penetrated and, a gun so large nothing can stop it all of these traits the reapers clearly have the advantage in thus rendering the dreadnought useless.
But more importantly than that is that a fleet built for close range combat would never pass up the chance to use their FTL drives to instantly get in so close all of their opponents hull length MA cannons would be near useless.
Now for the weapon according to ME2 the Everest class dreadnought fires a 20 kilo ferrous slug at 1.3% of light speed an absolutely pathetic weapon when you compare it to what ME scientist could have made the FTL torpedo a weapon that can be fired with out the forcing the parent vessel to face the target also the launch would in no way contribute to the vessels heat. On top of that would be that the speed of the weapon would mean the torp could be made with little no guidance thus enabling a too dumb to jam system. Above this though would be that a mere 5 ton torpedo would be 250 times heavier and at least 77 times faster which would then guarantee it's immunity to GUARDIAN systems and it's sheer force would bring serious doubt in kinetic barriers ability either deflect or block the attack much less from multiple attackers, this is of course assuming they are even designed to activate against such a fast moving threat.
While such a weapon would indeed be extremely expensive it's very existence would give commanders the motivation to leave those glorified bombardment platforms in the parades and museums where they belong. Even if the Kodiak shuttle is the smallest FTL platform possible it would just make such a weapon that much more dangerous although less numerous. Also there is nothing with in the ME lore to suggest that any race even the reapers are prepared to deal with a threat such as this. While I do not mean this as a attach FTL weapons and you will beat the reapers easily as their numbers are still immense but, it would still be nice if humanity was allowed to draw from the lessons we so painfully taught each other.
Anyway sorry for the WoT It just always bothered me about how bad the people of ME are at killing each other.
Modifié par AC5, 22 juin 2011 - 04:59 .
#107
Posté 22 juin 2011 - 05:30
onelifecrisis
-
- Members
- 2 829 messages
AC5 wrote...
<snip>
LOL that was awesome.
#110
Posté 22 juin 2011 - 07:04
AC5
-
- Members
- 38 messages
Not quite the FTL drive is nothing more than an engine so it doesn't need to be manned. However there really isn't much to stop the Normandy from strapping the Kodiak to the bottom of the ship accelerating to FTL speeds and flinging it at a reaper but, this would be more of a last ditch effort than a devolved weapon designed to kill Large vessels.
My previous post is really about nothing more than modifying our own current cruise missile technology to that of ME's level and, trying to show how laughable big gun ships are. Also you should take into account that Sovereign showed extreme vulnerability even to slow disruptor torpedoes once it's barriers were disabled thus designing a weapon which would deliver tens of thousands of times more force than a dreadnought's main gun just might overwhelm their barriers and to the squishy reaper center and, as a bonus the launching ship would only need to be in the combat area long enough to launch it's payload which would allow the vessel to then activate it's FTL drive and egress.
My previous post is really about nothing more than modifying our own current cruise missile technology to that of ME's level and, trying to show how laughable big gun ships are. Also you should take into account that Sovereign showed extreme vulnerability even to slow disruptor torpedoes once it's barriers were disabled thus designing a weapon which would deliver tens of thousands of times more force than a dreadnought's main gun just might overwhelm their barriers and to the squishy reaper center and, as a bonus the launching ship would only need to be in the combat area long enough to launch it's payload which would allow the vessel to then activate it's FTL drive and egress.
#111
Posté 22 juin 2011 - 07:50
wombo87
-
- Members
- 35 messages
AC5 your talking about a relativistic kill vehicle right? I thought that they would be an awsome weapon to use against the reapers, but it seems that no species in mass effect universe has deliberatly developed that type of weapon. Well except for the turian terrorist thing on CDN, but that was using a ship in a suicide run wasn't it?
Anyway it would come down to how fast the R&D and production would take vs how long they can last against the reapers. You sound like you're alot more informed than me so how long do you think it would take?
Anyway it would come down to how fast the R&D and production would take vs how long they can last against the reapers. You sound like you're alot more informed than me so how long do you think it would take?
#112
Posté 22 juin 2011 - 07:59
raist747
-
- Members
- 165 messages
From what I read in the lore Reapers are basically super-sized, hyper-advanced Dreadnaughts when it comes to combat. Citidel race Dreadnaughts are clearly outclassed unless they are all of a sudden shooting projectiles at 90% the speed of light or something (the projectile would impact at a force equal to its weight in Anti-matter).
#113
Posté 22 juin 2011 - 08:36
AC5
-
- Members
- 38 messages
Yes I am and the reason I used the Kodiak example was to show how easy it would be to shift a common everyday product it to a very effective weapon with little more than a quick VI modification. This would of course be a stop gag until more sophisticated, compact, producible and, high density weapons could be produced but, that doesn't stop you from chucking a disruptor warhead inside the shuttle in the mean time.
I brought it because reapers appear to be built for slugging matches like dreadnoughts which means they would likely be more susceptible to these weapons and, would likely not be able to develop a counter on the spot.
I brought it because reapers appear to be built for slugging matches like dreadnoughts which means they would likely be more susceptible to these weapons and, would likely not be able to develop a counter on the spot.
#114
Posté 22 juin 2011 - 10:08
julian08
-
- Members
- 284 messages
The biggest advantage of a dreadnaught is its main gun. Bigger ship = longer main gun = greater acceleration = bigger kabloom.
However, dreadnaughts are basically sniper weapons that pick off enemies from afar, and in close ship to ship combat they cannot use their devastating main gun. Reapers on the other hand have their molten-stream-of-annihilation wave guns and can cut a cruiser sized ship in half with one shot in close combat. I just hope the turians installed Thanix Cannons in a lot of ships the last few years.
Plus, they have much greater speed and maneuverability than any other ship their size, have nearly impenetrable kinetic barriers and can enter a planet's atmosphere. I guess if a dreadnaught could score a direct hit on a reaper from a distance it would smart pretty bad, but a reaper seems to be superior to pretty much any dreadnaught in existence.
However, dreadnaughts are basically sniper weapons that pick off enemies from afar, and in close ship to ship combat they cannot use their devastating main gun. Reapers on the other hand have their molten-stream-of-annihilation wave guns and can cut a cruiser sized ship in half with one shot in close combat. I just hope the turians installed Thanix Cannons in a lot of ships the last few years.
Plus, they have much greater speed and maneuverability than any other ship their size, have nearly impenetrable kinetic barriers and can enter a planet's atmosphere. I guess if a dreadnaught could score a direct hit on a reaper from a distance it would smart pretty bad, but a reaper seems to be superior to pretty much any dreadnaught in existence.
