416 réponses à ce sujet

[Pallid]

AlanC9 wrote...
Like I said upthread, I wish they'd forced that mission on us the moment it came up.

It was actually planned: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/5827347/7#5851102

It was supposed to be something like the Ash/Kaidan choice in ME1. Do you save your Normandy crew but risk your squad mates and the entire mission, or do you prepare more but potentially sacrifice the crew. We kind of failed at this goal on two accounts. 1. That decision wasn’t clear. 2. We gave the ability to save everyone if you did the mission order just right.

[P912]

Well, the way I think about it is, if there is some ultimate sacrifice that Shepard is asked to make, I'll gladly pay it.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

Battlefail Sucklactica was a terrible show (and not because of it's tone) so if ME3 is anything at all like it, I'll pass.

[jamesp81]

AlanC9 wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...
This is what annoys me.  It's not enough for you to have an ending you like.  You have to make sure I can't have an ending I like.

Unfortunately, that's exactly right. Because if you can get that ending, I have to deliberately make bad decisions or I'll get it too. I don't want to have to deliberately make bad decisions.

So, your preference is stomp on other people's story so you can get your own?  That doesn't track too well with a game where the idea is for you to write your character's own story.

[mopotter]

Lizardviking wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
However, note that there is a tradeoff for skipping content in ME2. Unless you delay doing the IFF mission (and you don't know you ought to do that unless you're metagaming), finishing up the LMs results in more of your crew being eaten.

Am I one the few who knew that the Reaper IFF mission was going to be something of a "endgame opener" of some sort and therefor should be played last?

Apparently.

I certainly didn't realize my crew deaths would increase depending on how long I waited before going after them.

[AlanC9]

jamesp81 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...
This is what annoys me.  It's not enough for you to have an ending you like.  You have to make sure I can't have an ending I like.

Unfortunately, that's exactly right. Because if you can get that ending, I have to deliberately make bad decisions or I'll get it too. I don't want to have to deliberately make bad decisions.

So, your preference is stomp on other people's story so you can get your own?

Sure. And you want to stomp on my preferred story so you can get your own. It's a zero-sum game; we can't both win it.

  That doesn't track too well with a game where the idea is for you to write your character's own story.

That's a lousy description of an RPG. People don't have that kind of freedom IRL. We can choose our actions, but neither the context of those actions nor the results of those actions. I don't want to be any more free to write Shepard's story than I am to write AlanC9's story.

[AlanC9]

Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...

Battlefail Sucklactica was a terrible show (and not because of it's tone) so if ME3 is anything at all like it, I'll pass.

Is that your own phrase? Never heard that one on the Syfy or TrekBBS boards, and there were a ton of haters there; mostly BSG:TOS fans.

[jamesp81]

AlanC9 wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...
This is what annoys me.  It's not enough for you to have an ending you like.  You have to make sure I can't have an ending I like.

Unfortunately, that's exactly right. Because if you can get that ending, I have to deliberately make bad decisions or I'll get it too. I don't want to have to deliberately make bad decisions.

So, your preference is stomp on other people's story so you can get your own?

Sure. And you want to stomp on my preferred story so you can get your own. It's a zero-sum game; we can't both win it.

  That doesn't track too well with a game where the idea is for you to write your character's own story.

That's a lousy description of an RPG. People don't have that kind of freedom IRL. We can choose our actions, but neither the context of those actions nor the results of those actions. I don't want to be any more free to write Shepard's story than I am to write AlanC9's story.

Real Life has no bearing on this at all.  One of the overarching themes of this series has been the ability for the player to write Shepard's story.  If you don't like that, maybe you should consider other games.

[AlanC9]

omskman wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Like I said upthread, I wish they'd forced that mission on us the moment it came up.

It was actually planned: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/5827347/7#5851102

It was supposed to be something like the Ash/Kaidan choice in ME1. Do you save your Normandy crew but risk your squad mates and the entire mission, or do you prepare more but potentially sacrifice the crew. We kind of failed at this goal on two accounts. 1. That decision wasn’t clear. 2. We gave the ability to save everyone if you did the mission order just right.

Thanks. It's good to know that Bio's intentions were good even if the execution was a bit off.

[AlanC9]

jamesp81 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
That's a lousy description of an RPG. People don't have that kind of freedom IRL. We can choose our actions, but neither the context of those actions nor the results of those actions. I don't want to be any more free to write Shepard's story than I am to write AlanC9's story.

Real Life has no bearing on this at all.  One of the overarching themes of this series has been the ability for the player to write Shepard's story.  If you don't like that, maybe you should consider other games.

Real Life (why the odd capitals?) does have a bearing on what I want from an RPG. The fact that you want something different in RPGs is of no interest to me.

Exactly what do you imagine I'm asking for that we wouldn't have gotten in ME2 if Bio had executed their original vision?

[Ahglock]

I kind of think the reaper IFF choice should be the beginning of ME3. The more missions you do, the bigger the losses of civilian lives but the better chance you have to succeed. If you do all the missions you might win with no losses to your party but the civilian loss rate would be much higher, if you go too early you just fail. But the problem with that on a game design level is you are motivating people to skip content shrinking the time of the game, so I am not really expecting this. .

[jamesp81]

AlanC9 wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
That's a lousy description of an RPG. People don't have that kind of freedom IRL. We can choose our actions, but neither the context of those actions nor the results of those actions. I don't want to be any more free to write Shepard's story than I am to write AlanC9's story.

Real Life has no bearing on this at all.  One of the overarching themes of this series has been the ability for the player to write Shepard's story.  If you don't like that, maybe you should consider other games.

Real Life (why the odd capitals?) does have a bearing on what I want from an RPG. The fact that you want something different in RPGs is of no interest to me.

Exactly what do you imagine I'm asking for that we wouldn't have gotten in ME2 if Bio had executed their original vision?

And the fact that you want to control how I experience the story is of no interest to me.  Leave me in peace to experience the game on my own terms and I'll happily do the same for you.

[AlanC9]

Good point, Ahglock. IIRC, the tracking data clearly shows that most players don't replay the games, so I can understand why Bio doesn't want to hurt them by making them miss a large percentage of content.

[mopotter]

jamesp81 wrote...

mopotter wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...

mopotter wrote...

I personally, don't play video games for educational purposes.  I play a video game to have fun and I play BioWare video games to have fun, enjoy a great story and feel good after I'm done. 

 
I don't understand what they've got to do with each other. I love history and reading can be both fun and educational. History is always sad, as is life itself. There is no happy ending: you, me, Shepard and everyone else is going to suffer and die in the end. Everything will be dust again, some day.

I prefer playing games that make an impression. I like to be staring at my monitor for a long time considering the hard choices that need to be made. That's the stuff I will remember, that's the stuff that creates real immersion, that's the stuff that makes (or breaks) games claiming to be about *decision making*. Up to this point, the only real decision we have made is the Kaidan / Ashley one. Everything else is only about helping someone or not (without any consequences). That is not only poor design but also a childish approach. I like games to be mature which, by definition, means you cannot have and/or do all.

P.S. Don't you think you'll feel happy when you finaly have destroyed the Reaper Invasion? Usually people are very happy when the war is over despite all the destruction, suffering and personal loss. Maybe you're mental state is influenced (too much) by Mass Effect's Paragon - Renegade system. You can still smile and feel happiness in the worst possible circumstances you know. Just saying :-)

Nice post.  Pleasure to read.

I am very very picky about the games I play and keep.  I still play - KOTOR; JE; DA: 2; Fall Out 3 with the extra DLC's; Force Unleashed, Fall Out New Vegas; Morrowind and Oblivion.  These are in my play forever pile.  Every one of them makes me feel great at the end and are fun for one reason or another.  Notice Fall Out 3 with DLC not without and   DA:O is not in this pile because I have a real personal problem with what they did to the Alistair romance.  Most people don't and that's fine, I do so it's in my don't keep pile.

Sure, I'll feel happy if I destroy the invasion.  But I'll feel happier and far more thrilled if I destroy the invasion with one game where I did this and everyone is there with me except the ones who have allready gone to the great video game in the sky.

I live a very ordinary life.  go to work, come home fix dinner talk to my husband, watch some tv or play my games, Visit here or somewhere else, go to bed get up and do it all over again.  I'm not a hero and I'll never be one.  I like being the person who can make it happen in a video game and in that video game when there are more than one endings, I like having one where I managed to do the whole thing in an amazing fashion and we all survived.  Not every ending, that would bore me, but one - definitely.   

History isn't always sad.  History is filled with both.  People live, die, love and laugh.  Both of my parents are dead, my grandparents are dead, I know what it feels like to have your loved ones die.  Don't need a video game for this.  These are sad memories.  But I also saw my grandfather bring my grandmother a flower from the fields on their farm.  Well actually it was a weed but it was still very sweet.  And I saw them holding hands while he was in bed dieing.    I want a video to make me happy, not depressed.  

I love fiction.   I've got every book Andre Norton wrote and most of the book Louis L'amour wrote;  I read The Count of Monte Cristo about every 2 or 3 years, and a lot of books by Alistair Maclean.  I've been reading books for over, well for a long time.     

A fellow reader

I agree with your post 1000%.

  Thanks.  

[KainrycKarr]

Modifié par KainrycKarr, 24 juin 2011 - 05:24 .

[AlanC9]

jamesp81 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Real Life (why the odd capitals?) does have a bearing on what I want from an RPG. The fact that you want something different in RPGs is of no interest to me.

Exactly what do you imagine I'm asking for that we wouldn't have gotten in ME2 if Bio had executed their original vision?

And the fact that you want to control how I experience the story is of no interest to me.  Leave me in peace to experience the game on my own terms and I'll happily do the same for you.

I want situations where Shepard simply is not able to shape the universe to his liking, where all consequenes are unpleasant but he nevertheless has some choice over which unpleasant outcome to pursue. Is that compatible with what you want?

If it is not, then our visions for an RPG are simply irreconcilable. And if they are irreconcilable, then I can't leave you in peace. At least, not until we play ME3 and find out whose vision has lost.

[AlanC9]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Hey, what happened to your post?

Anyway, I said I understood it, not that I agreed.