905 réponses à ce sujet

[tomas2377]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

tomas2377 wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

tomas2377 wrote...

sirgippy wrote...

tomas2377 wrote...

sirgippy wrote...

Wait.. so the good thing for Liara to do was to leave Shepard dead? Also, allow him to be sold to the collectors for who knows what purpose? Interesting.

Please read my post again.

I wrote that she should have given me to the Alliance instead. My body could have been cremated/turned to ashes. that way the Collectors would have been screwed and I wouldn't have had to suffer through ME2.

You wouldn't have to suffer ME3 either, because the Reapers would have entered the mass relay in the Batarian system and wiped everyone out.

ME3 has the potential to be a really great game.

Ash is back. Shepard is reinstated into the Alliance and my ME1 squad is back. Most of the customization options from ME1 will return also and the game is said to feature more heavily on RPG like ME1.

Now,  heres where I start to scratch my head here.  Liara ressurecting Shepard for Mass Effect 2 is BAD, but, if she didn't ressurect her she wouldn't be able to take part in mass effect 3?  Does it become a pro now,  or did she still "RUIN EVERYTHING!"

Not a pro. I meant ME1 squad in general. Garrus, Tali, Ash, Wrex (temporary as far as we know) and even Anderson in the beginning.

But without Liara you wouldn't have the chance to experince this reunion.  You'd either just be floating in space,  being turned into reaper goo,  or possibly burnt to ash because creamation makes everything better. 

Or the writers could have just given us a better choice in ME2.

Fly to the citadel to betray the Cerberus crew and hand them over to the Alliance, get EDI deleted, get reinstated into the spectres and the alliance and recruit your old squad back aboard.

[AngelicMachinery]

tomas2377 wrote...


Or the writers could have just given us a better choice in ME2.

Fly to the citadel to betray the Cerberus crew and hand them over to the Alliance, get EDI deleted, get reinstated into the spectres and the alliance and recruit your old squad back aboard.

But you died,  the writers caused this not Liara.  

I have a question for you.  What if Ashley somehow miraclously stumbled upon Shepard's corpse and perhaps in a moment of weakness she provided her corpse to TIM in hopes of a resurection.  Would this be bad?  Or would this be "Romantic."

And last but not least,  you're a monster for desiring to kill Edi.

[KawaiiKatie]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

But without Liara you wouldn't have the chance to experince this reunion.  You'd either just be floating in space,  being turned into reaper goo,  or possibly burnt to ash because creamation makes everything better. 

Some Shepards would argue that he/she would rather be dead than live in a world where Kaidan or Ash hates Shepard.

I'd also like ot mention that I'm agree with the comments that are disgusted with how Liara constantly comes on to Shepard even though Shepard is in a relationship with someone else. "I have everything that I want. So tell me what you want~" she says, while striking a suggestive pose and quirking an eyebrow. She subverts this is Shepard is in a relationship with an ME2 character, but if your Shepard is single or waiting faithfully for Ash/Kaidan, she just leaves her obvious come-on hanging there in the open.

And, of course, no matter what dialogue choices you make, the scene always ends with Shepard embracing Liara and saying, longingly, "Come back soon!"

...barf.

[Barquiel]

tomas2377 wrote...

I know that and I never said or implied that. That was just tough luck on Shepards part or just really bad writing. Take your pick but from a RP point of view did my Shepard die that day. Shepard from ME2 onwards is just an inferior clone in my RP playthrough.

Ok

You hate Liara because she gave your inferior Shepard clone a second (or first?) chance with Ashley in ME3? That doesn't make sense to me, sorry

[Barquiel]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

And, of course, no matter what dialogue choices you make, the scene always ends with Shepard embracing Liara and saying, longingly, "Come back soon!"

...barf.

Don't invite Liara up for drinks (it's completely optional)

Modifié par Barquiel, 07 juillet 2011 - 11:31 .

[tomas2377]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

tomas2377 wrote...


Or the writers could have just given us a better choice in ME2.

Fly to the citadel to betray the Cerberus crew and hand them over to the Alliance, get EDI deleted, get reinstated into the spectres and the alliance and recruit your old squad back aboard.

But you died,  the writers caused this not Liara.  

I have a question for you.  What if Ashley somehow miraclously stumbled upon Shepard's corpse and perhaps in a moment of weakness she provided her corpse to TIM in hopes of a resurection.  Would this be bad?  Or would this be "Romantic."

And last but not least,  you're a monster for desiring to kill Edi.

I wouldn't be able to trust Ashley anymore if she would have been the one who gave me to Cerberus. Maybe in time because I cared about her character at some point but I couldn't say for sure.

EDI is a danger to the ship because she was programmed by Cerberus. If the Cerberus programming could be removed I would be more than happy to keep her on my ship.

[KawaiiKatie]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I have a question for you.  What if Ashley somehow miraclously stumbled upon Shepard's corpse and perhaps in a moment of weakness she provided her corpse to TIM in hopes of a resurection.  Would this be bad?  Or would this be "Romantic."

Honestly, I hate that it was left to any one character to find Shepards body and deliver it to TIM. When Cerberus was searching for Shepard's body, they were doing so impartially, not because of an emotional connect. But Liara did it because she "couldn't let Shepard go," even though Shepard wasn't necessarily her friend in ME1. If Shepard was Liara's lover, it kind of makes sense for Liara to go hunting for Shepard's body, but if you were a jackass who yelled at Liara like I did, the fact that she scoured the galaxy in hopes of bringing you back to life screams stalker. And it creeps me out.

This would be true of any character. If Ash went around the galaxy hunting for Shepard's body even though Shepard spent most of the game yelling, "You're a racist and your religion is stupid!" then, yeah, I'd be just as creeped out.

[tomas2377]

Barquiel wrote...

tomas2377 wrote...

I know that and I never said or implied that. That was just tough luck on Shepards part or just really bad writing. Take your pick but from a RP point of view did my Shepard die that day. Shepard from ME2 onwards is just an inferior clone in my RP playthrough.

Ok

You hate Liara because she gave your inferior Shepard clone a second (or first?) chance with Ashley in ME3? That doesn't make sense to me, sorry

Would it help you understand if I told you that my Shepard is a pure Paragon and hates Cerberus since seeing and destroying their operations in ME1? They even killed Alliance Admiral Kahoku. Set rachni loose on Alliance soldiers. etc.

My Shep is an Alliance soldier through and through. It is in his blood.

The only way I could stomach ME2 was to RP as if that Shep was dead and a clone with his memories took his place. That way ME2 didn't seem so out of character for my Shep.

[KawaiiKatie]

Barquiel wrote...

Don't invite Liara up for drinks (it's completely optional)

Yeah, I know. That's what I did the first time, until it came to my attention that Liara was in possession of my old Alliance dogtags, and that she was specifically instructed to return them to me. ....unless I refused to have drinks with her.

So, thanks for punishing me for not being best friends with Liara, game. I'm sure Admiral Hackett will be thrilled to hear that Liara decided to keep those tags for herself. <_<

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 07 juillet 2011 - 11:36 .

[tomas2377]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Don't invite Liara up for drinks (it's completely optional)

Yeah, I know. That's what I did the first time, until it came to my attention that Liara was in possession of my old Alliance dogtags, and that she was specifically instructed to return them to me. ....unless I refused to have drinks with her.

So, thanks for punishing me for not being best friends with Liara, game. I'm sure Admiral Hackett will be thrilled to hear that Liara decided to keep those tags for herself. <_<

I know how you feel. It was my reason too. I wanted my dogtags back and that's why I invited her aboard. That scene was so annoying.

[AngelicMachinery]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

But without Liara you wouldn't have the chance to experince this reunion.  You'd either just be floating in space,  being turned into reaper goo,  or possibly burnt to ash because creamation makes everything better. 

Some Shepards would argue that he/she would rather be dead than live in a world where Kaidan or Ash hates Shepard.

I'd also like ot mention that I'm agree with the comments that are disgusted with how Liara constantly comes on to Shepard even though Shepard is in a relationship with someone else. "I have everything that I want. So tell me what you want~" she says, while striking a suggestive pose and quirking an eyebrow. She subverts this is Shepard is in a relationship with an ME2 character, but if your Shepard is single or waiting faithfully for Ash/Kaidan, she just leaves her obvious come-on hanging there in the open.

And, of course, no matter what dialogue choices you make, the scene always ends with Shepard embracing Liara and saying, longingly, "Come back soon!"

...barf.

Listen,  I know your set in your ways.  I know your just itching for a chance to get rid of Liara,  and you know what?  That’s great,  it shows your passionate about the game.  I’m never going to convince you that Liara is a decent character and you‘ll never convince me she‘s great (Arguing on the internet is silly,  though unavoidable). You can have your opinion, and I’ll have mine and we can coexist. 

I must admit I’ve never had much hatred for any of the characters I’ve encountered in Mass Effect.  Surprise, surprise,  I’m one of those people who can tolerate everyone (Yes,  even Jacob.)  So,  I’ve never particularly understood why “Hate threads” manifest for each character, and even more so pleas for the ability to kill someone.  The part of Mass Effect I hated most was Virmire,  it’s a tough choice much tougher than the suicide mission because you can’t save someone. 

I think people asking for death “Just cause” completely invalidate these rather emotional scenes myself.  The suicide mission doesn’t particularly count, since, you know… everyone lives unless you go out of your way to kill anyone. 

No one ever seems angry that Shepard and Wrex seem happy to see each other.  I suspect though, this comes down to romances and the perceived rivalry between Ash/Liara or Kaidan/Liara while Wrex is just that big loveable Krogan.

The thing is,  I do kind of get where your coming from.  I hated how Femme Shepard was forced into sexual harassment mode around every male love interest in ME2,  while she came off as rather chaste in conversations with women.  It felt rather out of place that my female Shepard who was established as liking women was interacting as such.  The thing is,  I don’t blame the characters…  I don’t kill poor Jacob on the suicide mission I suck it up. 


As for the recovery argument,  perhaps your right.  Though, I’ve never had a play through where I treated any Crew Member like dirt,  it seems like incredibly bad form for a commanding officer.  Though,  Liara is young and not particularly mature socially I could see her going after Shepard in hopes of changing her mind, and proving just how much she loves her.  It's not healthy,  but, it's not unheard of.

[Barquiel]

tomas2377 wrote...

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Don't invite Liara up for drinks (it's completely optional)

Yeah, I know. That's what I did the first time, until it came to my attention that Liara was in possession of my old Alliance dogtags, and that she was specifically instructed to return them to me. ....unless I refused to have drinks with her.

So, thanks for punishing me for not being best friends with Liara, game. I'm sure Admiral Hackett will be thrilled to hear that Liara decided to keep those tags for herself. <_<

I know how you feel. It was my reason too. I wanted my dogtags back and that's why I invited her aboard. That scene was so annoying.

1) You help Liara to kill the SB - optional
2) You invite her up for drinks (meta-gaming...because you need your dog-tags) - but still optional

And now you wonder why they act like friends?

Okay...

Modifié par Barquiel, 07 juillet 2011 - 11:57 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Given how many other reasons there are for Shepard to want to kill the Shadow Broker that have nothing to do with being Liara's bestest friend...

Liara still being infatuated with Shepard? Sure. Whatever. Shepard automatically liking Liara? Heck, you can be abrasive and disagree with Anderson more consistently than you can Liara.

Hopefully in ME3 there will be a 'I am not your friend, we just happen to have the same enemies' dialogue option, but I rather doubt it.

[Barquiel]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Given how many other reasons there are for Shepard to want to kill the Shadow Broker that have nothing to do with being Liara's bestest friend...

Liara still being infatuated with Shepard? Sure. Whatever. Shepard automatically liking Liara? Heck, you can be abrasive and disagree with Anderson more consistently than you can Liara.

Hopefully in ME3 there will be a 'I am not your friend, we just happen to have the same enemies' dialogue option, but I rather doubt it.

I think there are not many reasons why a "I am not your friend, we just happen to have the same enemies" Shepard would invite Liara up for drinks.

[tomas2377]

Barquiel wrote...

tomas2377 wrote...

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Don't invite Liara up for drinks (it's completely optional)

Yeah, I know. That's what I did the first time, until it came to my attention that Liara was in possession of my old Alliance dogtags, and that she was specifically instructed to return them to me. ....unless I refused to have drinks with her.

So, thanks for punishing me for not being best friends with Liara, game. I'm sure Admiral Hackett will be thrilled to hear that Liara decided to keep those tags for herself. <_<

I know how you feel. It was my reason too. I wanted my dogtags back and that's why I invited her aboard. That scene was so annoying.

1) You help Liara to kill the SB - optional
2) You invite her up for drinks (meta-gaming...because you need your dog-tags) - but still optional

And now you wonder why they act like friends?

Okay...

It would be all great if she would just act like a friend. I have nothing against it but she is coming on to my Shepard in a strong way. Always flirting with him. That's what makes her so creepy and unlikable. My Shepard is taken by Ashley. She should just accept that fact and move on.

[Dean_the_Young]

Barquiel wrote...


I think there are not many reasons why a "I am not your friend, we just happen to have the same enemies" Shepard would invite Liara up for drinks.

Hence why I didn't object to the second, though I can think of context that would explain it. (Shepard seeing and treating Liara as a tool, for one. Shepard wanting to check up on how his/her new Shadow Broker network is coming along.) But that scene is itself representative of a larger problem with Liara, and in fixing those problems could also have been changed. Liara could have told you she was preparing something of yours for later, so Shepard (even non-friend Shepard) could have been like 'gimmie.'


If the 'I'm not your friend' dialogue was only possible for Shepards who didn't do LotSB... well, fair enough. Definitely worth the ME2 replay to do it.

[Barquiel]

tomas2377 wrote...

It would be all great if she would just act like a friend. I have nothing against it but she is coming on to my Shepard in a strong way. Always flirting with him. That's what makes her so creepy and unlikable. My Shepard is taken by Ashley. She should just accept that fact and move on.

Friendship Liara cabin scene.

Where is your flirting?

[KawaiiKatie]

Barquiel wrote...

Friendship Liara cabin scene.

Where is your flirting?

"So tell me what you want~" *suggestive pose* *wink wink* *nudge nudge*

No, Liara, honey. Just no.

[Barquiel]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Friendship Liara cabin scene.

Where is your flirting?

"So tell me what you want~" *suggestive pose* *wink wink* *nudge nudge*

No, Liara, honey. Just no.

Liara tells you she's got *everything* she wants and asked Shepard what he/she is fighting for. That's flirting for you, really?

Modifié par Barquiel, 08 juillet 2011 - 12:38 .

[KawaiiKatie]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

You can have your opinion, and I’ll have mine and we can coexist.

Never said we couldn't. Never attacked anyone on this thread or implied that we couldn't get along. Nope, all of my rage is directed where it belongs: at Liara.

I think people asking for death “Just cause” completely invalidate these rather emotional scenes myself.

I agree, for the most part. I don't see myself ever slaughtering a character out of hand just for the heck of it, and I feel sorry for people who felt that the Virmire choice was an "easy" one because they didn't feel attached to either character. They're missing out on a huge emotional impact.

That said, most of my arguments (note that I'm not speaking for every anti-Liara statement, just those made by me) haven't been that Liara should die, just that she should be able to die. If she remains that only character who, over the course of three games, remains invicible and comes out unscathed by galactic war, it'll show a remarkable amount of favouritism for Liara, and I'll be extremely disappointed with Bioware.

Will I be terribly choked up when Liara dies? No. Will I be missing out an a huge emotional impact? Yes. Is that anyone's problem but my own? No. Does it invalidate the emotional impact it should have on anyone else? Absolutely not.

[KawaiiKatie]

Barquiel wrote...

Liara tells you she's got *everything* she wants and asked Shepard what he/she is fighting for. That's flirting for you, really?

Yeah, seeing as how the *hand on hip* suggestive "So tell me what you want, baby" line is what Liara uses as a segue to sex with Shepards who romanced her, I'd say that it's pretty flirtatious. Compounded with the fact that if Shepard can't reply "Ashley! Kaidan! The person I've been waiting faithfully for!" and that Liara never told the Virmire Survivor about recovering Shepard's body... yeah, it just seems like Liara is still holding out hope that she's gonna get to bump metaphysical uglies with Shepard.

Sorry, Liara. Just 'cause I didn't hook up with an ME2 character doesn't mean that I was waiting for you.

[Ophiskc]

KawaiiKatie it gives me the impression you´re being pretty paranoid. You have a clear option in Lotsb to say to Liara u dont even want to be friends and just to keep it professional. The excuse for not doing just that because of the lol dog-tags is not logical to me, she prolly will send u the damn things by "postal" anyway.

She saved your body not because she´s a stalker freak, but because u saved her once and she wants to pay u back, just like she feels the same with Feron; she is a sensible person that really values the people she comes to care about. You treated her like crap in M1, yes, but remember that she readed the deep in your mind also, and prolly saw something under the heartless layer of your Shep that she came to care about. In M1 you are her hero and she admires you. In Lotsb she is mature enough to accept you dont want to be her friend anymore. So just choose that option. The chances that Liara comes together with Feron if she is not your LI are very high anyway

My FemShep is a lesbian and is really annoying that all the males in the game are drooling for her, starting from Kaidan. But i dont go and make a fuss everywhere because of that like you guys always does when it comes to Liara

I very much agree with what AngelicMachinery also said btw

Modifié par Ophiskc, 08 juillet 2011 - 01:33 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Well, that impressive display convinced me. I'm sold.

[KawaiiKatie]

Ophiskc wrote...

KawaiiKatie it gives me the impression you´re being pretty paranoid. You have a clear option in Lotsb to say to Liara u dont even want to be friends and just to keep it professional. The excuse for not doing just that because of the lol dog-tags is not logical to me, she prolly will send u the damn things by "postal" anyway.

The fact that Liara already has bits of Shepard's armour on display in her bedroom tells me that I'm never going to see those dogtags again. My Shepard obviously wants nothing to do with her, so she's going to cling to whatever bits of me she can.

She saved your body not because she´s a stalker freak

I disagree... See above... Keeping bits of Shepard isn't what a sane person does. It's what a stalker does.

You treated her like crap in M1, yes, but remember that she readed the deep in your mind also, and prolly saw something under the heartless layer of your Shep that she came to care about.

Yes, under the xenophobic and ruthless exterior beats the heart of a lover. Though I spend my time pushing mercs out windows, it's all to cover up something good buried deep, deep down. Damn you Liara, for exposing my delicate vunerabilities!

So just choose that option. The chances that Liara comes together with Feron if she is not your LI are very high anyway

If she was able to accept that my Shepard isn't her friend, she would've given me my dogtags even after I said GTFO. That's what professionals do. But there's nothing in the current canon to suggest that she does anything but keep them for herself. There's even a "delivery" terminal in the Shadow Broker base where she could've dropped off Shepard's tags (you know, next to all that Palladium and the upgrades) but no, I think it's strongly implied that Liara keeps that trinket, along with the others in her apartment.

[Dean_the_Young]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Yes, under the xenophobic and ruthless exterior beats the heart of a lover. Though I spend my time pushing mercs out windows, it's all to cover up something good buried deep, deep down. Damn you Liara, for exposing my delicate vunerabilities!

My heart beats faster. Want to have hot, xeno-phobic pure human romance options?


(Which is another way of saying: you good, girl.)