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Liara's lack of death


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#326
Ophiskc

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So maybe you should kill Legion too, because he has also a piece of your armor so is clearly another stalker. People who has a guitar that belonged to a singer they like are stalkers too, etc. You can come with an argument for everything you want, but that doesnt make it necessarily true.

You have no idea what M3 will bring, can be you get your precious pixel dog-tags then, or maybe not, because the tags stuff is so ridiculous that probably the writers didnt even thought on that in the moment they created the player options about how to continue with Liara, or thought any player will actually care.

Maybe your Shep spend his time pushing mercs out windows, but he is damn sensible if he goes all crazy because he dont have his dogs tag.

As i said before, haters gonna hate, is pointless even to answer them, so i will not anymore

My FemShep is very happy with Liara, thats the important ;) 

#327
KawaiiKatie

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Ophiskc wrote...

So maybe you should kill Legion too, because he has also a piece of your armor so is clearly another stalker. People who has a guitar that belonged to a singer they like are stalkers too, etc. You can come with an argument for everything you want, but that doesnt make it necessarily true.


Legion IS a stalker. Legion is SUCH a stalker. And if someone actually searches for the decayed corpse of a singer he/she admired in hopes of resurrecting said singer, then yeah, he/she is a stalker, too. Just because you think it's sweet that Liara searched the galaxy for your beloved femShep doesn't mean that it's "sweet" that she searched the galaxy for my jerkass manShep. In your canon, she's a grieving, devote lover. In my canon, she's a crazed stalker. But Bioware assumes that your canon is everyone's canon, and never takes mine into consideration. That's very frustrating.

Again, I've never said that Liara should die, or that I want to kill her. In fact, I say otherwise on the VERY FIRST PAGE of this thread. But Liara should be able to die in the next game. That's all. No one should be safe in the climax of this series.

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 08 juillet 2011 - 02:24 .


#328
AngelicMachinery

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KawaiiKatie wrote...


Legion IS a stalker. Legion is SUCH a stalker. And if someone actually searches for the decayed corpse of a singer he/she admired in hopes of resurrecting said singer, then yeah, he/she is a stalker, too.


I'm sorry Mister Cobain.

#329
KawaiiKatie

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AngelicMachinery wrote...

KawaiiKatie wrote...


Legion IS a stalker. Legion is SUCH a stalker. And if someone actually searches for the decayed corpse of a singer he/she admired in hopes of resurrecting said singer, then yeah, he/she is a stalker, too.


I'm sorry Mister Cobain.


Did you... Did you see my graphic? I was pretty proud of it. ^_^

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#330
Dean_the_Young

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:wub::wub::wub:

#331
Minty-Fresh

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KainrycKarr wrote...

It means Bioware absolutely, for sure, unavoidably wanted Liara as the new Shadow Broker, and to be in ME3.


Or she is the cannon LI

Don't say there isn't canon EVERY game as one canon storyline.

#332
KawaiiKatie

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Minty-Fresh wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

It means Bioware absolutely, for sure, unavoidably wanted Liara as the new Shadow Broker, and to be in ME3.


Or she is the cannon LI

Don't say there isn't canon EVERY game as one canon storyline.


The only "cannon" LI is the Normandy's Thanix Cannon.

And no, there is no "canon." Some games have a "canon," but Mass Effect isn't one of them. That's why Shepard's gender is avoided in the novels. Even things like manShep's Sheploo face (the one from all the advertisements) isn't the "canon," he's the default. There's a world of difference there.

So no, as fun as it is to joke about, Liara is not the "canon" love-interest.

#333
Dean_the_Young

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Why didn't you join years ago? I've been waiting for more people like you!

#334
Minty-Fresh

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KawaiiKatie wrote...

Minty-Fresh wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

It means Bioware absolutely, for sure, unavoidably wanted Liara as the new Shadow Broker, and to be in ME3.


Or she is the cannon LI

Don't say there isn't canon EVERY game as one canon storyline.


The only "cannon" LI is the Normandy's Thanix Cannon.

And no, there is no "canon." Some games have a "canon," but Mass Effect isn't one of them. That's why Shepard's gender is avoided in the novels. Even things like manShep's Sheploo face (the one from all the advertisements) isn't the "canon," he's the default. There's a world of difference there.

So no, as fun as it is to joke about, Liara is not the "canon" love-interest.


I very kindly disagree.

I know shes not, Miranda is.

#335
KawaiiKatie

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Minty-Fresh wrote...

I very kindly disagree.

I know shes not, Miranda is.


Well played, good sir or madam. :lol:

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#336
Magicman10893

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Trinity66 wrote...

Why are people making such a big deal out of this? You have an option to save everyone in your team and that's important. (well, except Virmire thing in ME1).


Yeah, but not everyone saves everyone. The reason that Wrex wasn't a huge part of ME2 was because he could possibly be dead. For someone that didn't kill him, that would work, but for someone that did end up killing him, it would leave a huge plothole or ruin the game. That is why Garrus and Tali are full squad mates in ME2 because there was no way they could die in ME1. Now that they could potentially die in ME2, that leaves only Liara as the only squadmate that can't die (so far) meaning Bioware means for her to be really important.

#337
mb94

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And is this such a bad thing? I too hope there is a way to kill her in me3 (I don't plan to, but just to make the game more realistic) - we needed someone with knowledge to survive all 3... Sure, Joker survives, but he's not a prothean expert... Someone needed to survive all 3, if it were garrus, or tali (or whomever your favourite character is), I doubt so many people on this thread would be complaining :)

#338
Dariustwinblade

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Actually ppl would complain if Tali and Garrus was unkillable.

I am happy Liara is unkillable.

I was OUTRAGED you can't kill Joker.

I was similarly furious that my Colonist War Hero only got the death of 300,000 Batarians. I need to kill moar Batarians it should have been 5,000,000+ dead Batarians.

What do I do? I....deal with it.

#339
ozenglish

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AngelicMachinery wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Well, we had our Tali hate thread, now we have a Liara hate thread. Who's next folks? I vote for Zaeed, he never gets any hate-thread love.


How can you hate Zaeed?  He kinda reminds me of my Grampa.


LIKE!! Other than the shifty eye, he sounds and looks a lot like my army cadet commanding officer. One hell of an awesome bloke he was, and had very similar stories like Zaeed. He was ex tactical cop and peacekeeper! Yeah, Zaeed is one of my favourites just on those points right there!

#340
The Twilight God

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Liara is the canon LI.
The canon best friend.
The canon "most crucial person besides Shepard".
She is superior to all other companions.

As Garrus is also Shepard's brofriend even if you never recruited him, his recruitment and friendship are canon as well.

Tali's romantic interest in Shepard occurs rather you treat her like crap and deny her the geth data. Therefore, Shepard being nice to her is canon.

Do not fight it.

#341
KawaiiKatie

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The Twilight God wrote...

Liara is the canon LI.
The canon best friend.
The canon "most crucial person besides Shepard".
She is superior to all other companions.

...
Do not fight it.


NO! I REFUSE! I WILL NEVER STOP FIGHTING!

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#342
The Twilight God

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KawaiiKatie wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Liara is the canon LI.
The canon best friend.
The canon "most crucial person besides Shepard".
She is superior to all other companions.

...
Do not fight it.


NO! I REFUSE! I WILL NEVER STOP FIGHTING!


You are a speck of dust struggling against cosmic wind... a great biotic cosmic wind.

You will  be thrashed about in the wind that is Liara T'Soni being the canon romance.

You will be tossed like a ragdoll in the face of the canon Garrus bromance.

You will smell the greatness that is canonically being good friends with Tali'Zorah vas Normandy.

This hurts you,  KawaiiKatie. Why fight the inevitable?

We are the Harbinger of your role playing experience!!!

#343
KawaiiKatie

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The Twilight God wrote...

This hurts you,  KawaiiKatie. Why fight the inevitable?

We are the Harbinger of your role playing experience!!!


Maybe you're right. Maybe I can't win this.

But I'll fight Liara regardless! Just like I did in the first game! Just like I'm doing now!

However "insignificant" I might be, I will fight! I will sacrifice! And I will find a way!

Because that's what roleplayers do.

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 09 juillet 2011 - 10:21 .


#344
AngelicMachinery

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KawaiiKatie wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

This hurts you,  KawaiiKatie. Why fight the inevitable?

We are the Harbinger of your role playing experience!!!


Maybe you're right. Maybe I can't win this.

But I'll fight Liara regardless! Just like I did in the first game! Just like I'm doing now!

However "insignificant" I might be, I will fight! I will sacrifice! And I will find a way!

Because that's what roleplayers do.


Would you say your only course of action is "We fight or we die, that's the plan?"

#345
KawaiiKatie

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AngelicMachinery wrote...

Would you say your only course of action is "We fight or we die, that's the plan?"


At least it's a plan! :D

#346
The Twilight God

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KawaiiKatie wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

This hurts you,  KawaiiKatie. Why fight the inevitable?

We are the Harbinger of your role playing experience!!!


Maybe you're right. Maybe I can't win this.

But I'll fight Liara regardless! Just like I did in the first game! Just like I'm doing now!

However "insignificant" I might be, I will fight! I will sacrifice! And I will find a way!

Because that's what roleplayers do.


Twilight God: Rudimentary creatures of console and PC, you try to roleplay your Shepard, fumbling in ignorance to figure out which bad paraphrase will say what you actual want to hear, incapable realizing your ideal Shepard.

There is a realm of set in stone character developement so far beyond your personal preference, you can't even see it coming. The will of the writters supercedes your Shepard's choices. I am Twilight God.

Random Forumite: Twilight God isn't just some Liara fanboy, he's the actual Canon.

Twilight God: Canon. A concept intorduced by players to give voice to their roleplaying frustrations. In the end, what they chose to call the futility of their companion interaction choices is irrelevent. We simple are.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 10 juillet 2011 - 08:54 .


#347
Garlador

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Ironically, and maybe it's just me, but Liara's "lack of death" has caused me to care less about her because her plot-armor makes me know that, regardless of my actions or vested interest in her, she'll emerge just fine (at least until ME3). For all the other characters, that threat of death makes me more driven to care for their well-being and safety, and by extension I care for them as characters more than Liara.

Liara is still one of my favorite characters (all Bioware characters are great), but when you have a nigh-invulnerable, all-powerful information overlord who can't die no matter what you do and who routinely runs off to do her own thing without you, or a girl like Tali (or Jack or Ashley or anyone else) who realizes that they need your help and who willingly marches off into the hellfire on a self-appointed suicide mission where you know even one tiny mistake can end their life, I just feel much stronger emotions for those that could be lost.

I accidentally lost Mordin in a playthrough. I had no idea it was going to be HIM. I loved Mordin and his singing and his quirks. The loss of Mordin caused my following playthrough to ensure I definitely looked out for him, and I felt an attachment to him that far eclipsed that of Liara, who I knew was immune to the same sort of missteps from my decisions.

Basically, Bioware games, especially Mass Effect, thrive on actions and repercussions. Liara is the only one who is not only immune to death, but she's also relatively immune to your actions. No matter how you play the game, she will always do the same key things regardless of the way you treat her and follow the same path, no matter if you're male, female, renegade, paragon, love interest or not. She is rigid in a game that's fluid. You can influence small things about her (mainly if she's a love interest), but even Kelly is more easily impacted by your decisions and conversations.

It's not so much a criticism as an observation. It works for Liara to move the plot along, but at the expense of the attachment I feel towards other party members. For others, it could be different; a reassuring relief that their favorite character is immune from stupid leadership decisions and bad strategic suicide runs. Yet that's why she's so detached from me, or I'm so detached from her.

I'm much more interested in seeing how my decisions at Tali's trial concerning her father and the impact I've had with Legion and the Quarian/Geth war, as well as my intimacy with Tali on a personal level, will impact my friendship and relationship with her in the third game; where will she fall into place? As a leader of her people? As a vagabond without a home? As an embittered orphan? As a casualty of a foolish war I helped instigate? A girl matured by her experiences, or perhaps weakened by the immune system complications of our relationship? Can she die in ME3? How will her death in ME2 affect Shepard in ME3? Will the loss be significant? Will her appearance be highly beneficial?

All those variables aren't really applicable to Liara. Liara is unchanging, unmoving, and very consistent. No matter how you play the game, Liara survives both games, is essential to your resurrection, and ends up as the most powerful information broker in the galaxy by the end, no matter how much you screw everything else up. Her role must be the easiest to define and to write, but, for me, that makes her one of the least interesting because that story, her journey, rarely changes, unlike the sweeping and varied emotional character arcs of Jack, of Garrus, of Samara, of Thane, of Ashley, and many others, who can end up as entirely different people with entirely different fates depending on how you play the game.

#348
Priximus

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I can understand what many here are thinking yes Liara should be killable for the sake of justice but if you dont want her to die simply do everything to keep her alive and i am an Liara fan just so you know but only because she is one of my favs then she shouldnt be invincible but Bioware should NOT make it any harder to keep Liara alive than any other squadmates in ME3. (otherwise i would freakout and some employees may go missing xD) so im simply saying that bioware should make her killable but that you can keep her alive (like the loyalty thingy in ME2).

#349
Sshodan

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There are "plot character" and "squad characters" as far as the writing goes. The squad/sidekick chars are there to shoot. look good and make players fell good about themselves. Story character does not necessary have to be liked, it's purpose is to move the story along, and steer up discussions. Everyone who eve written an adventure story would be familiar with the concepts.
Liara is the only story char in our party - she is the "seer" who leads the hero in the first part, and the one who makes his resurrection possible in the second, I can bet that she is going to be the one who gives us key info in the third. Liara is connected to the story firmly through her role, relations and design.
The bottom line: you can't kill the IM untill it's time, you can't kill Anderson, Undina or any other significant plot personal, so neither you can kill Liara, not until she served her role at last. She is not a squaddie, and shuld not be seen as such - dragging her along on missions in ME1 is a bonus not a purpose of her. So comparing her to pure squad mate characters is futile.

Modifié par Sshodan, 11 juillet 2011 - 02:59 .


#350
Dariustwinblade

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^Interesting way of looking at her never thought of it that way.