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[BlueMagitek]

Nightwriter wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

As I recall, Liara has a mental breakdown after you rescue her. >_>

If by "mental breakdown" you mean "completely and totally hilarious hallucination dialogue sequence that should totally be the default no matter what but is cruelly only available to people who wait to recruit her until the story is almost over," then yes.

I was talking about the part after that on the Normandy, where the conversation is basically:

Liara:  I study Protheans and why they've disappeared, I have some theories--.
Shepard: Yeah, Reapers did that.
Liara: What?
VS: Also, Shepard has the Cipher, the one thing that completely allows a person to understand Prothean knowledge and culture.
Liara: O_o
Shepard:  Oh, we also know we have to use the Muu relay to get to an ancient Prothean world of some kind.
Liara: This isn't fair!  I've studied Protheans for decades and you come in waltzing with all the answe-- ERROR  ERROR REBOOT

Actually, has it all.

[Dariustwinblade]

can't ......let......thread......die.


Something about this thread makes me smile.


It may be the hatered filled pages of Liara hate and tardism.

[Merchant2006]

Joker's lack of death too. Let's not forget about that!

[KotorEffect3]

I will never get the Liara hate. So because she can't get killed people hate her? That makes no sense. Of course most of the time these days the bsn makes no sense.

[BlueMagitek]

^ It isn't so much the lack of death as it her being shoved into an important role in the story, regardless of what she probably would have been doing at the time.  Come on now, what sort of self respecting archaeologist wouldn't jump on the chance to be on the team that gets to dig up Ilos?

It isn't even the "recover Shep's body"; there were only three options for that (Tali, VS, Liara) because Garrus & Wrex could be not recruited/dead.  I doubt the VS would have handed the body to Cerberus, so it's down to Tali or Liara, and I don't think Tali would risk the fleet's safety by gaining the ire of the Shadow Broker.  

But then she has a complete career shift?  And then LotSB?  Come on now. ~_~

Merchant2006 wrote...

Joker's lack of death too. Let's not forget about that!

He did kill Shep and get away with it. ~_~

[graciegrace]

BlueMagitek wrote...
It isn't even the "recover Shep's body"; there were only three options for that (Tali, VS, Liara) because Garrus & Wrex could be not recruited/dead.  I doubt the VS would have handed the body to Cerberus, so it's down to Tali or Liara, and I don't think Tali would risk the fleet's safety by gaining the ire of the Shadow Broker. 

And also, since Shepard's body was handled in a comic, the VS survivor couldn't have done it, since it would require canonizing one of them surviving.  

Liara's the only one who makes sense to recover Shepard's body outside the game.  She's the only one with the freedom to do so (as you said, Tali wouldn't risk the fleet's safety, as well as her necessity to return to the fleet anyway), and that leaves her the only character completely outside the realm of player choice.

[IndigoWolfe]

OH, FOR PETE'S SAKE!

[The Sarendoctrinator]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I will never get the Liara hate. So because she can't get killed people hate her? That makes no sense. Of course most of the time these days the bsn makes no sense.

I can only speak for myself here, but I think there might be others with the same reasons as mine.

I never liked Liara. Her personality, her story in general - she's just the type of character who doesn't interest me, and can be annoying at times. There were only a few qualities about her character that I liked. I basically avoided her in my first playthroughs. But then, I decided to go through all of her conversations in ME1. The MaleShep I was playing at the time, in a NG+ to perfect all of his choices before importing him into ME2, happened to be one who doesn't get along with or trust her. When my options came up on the dialogue wheel - romance, friends, or not interested - I played him according to character and chose "not interested." As it turns out, that line is a romance trap. No way to get out of it once you choose that option, not even when he shouted and told her off at the Normandy lockdown scene.

Now, I don't have as much time to play games as I would like. That playthrough took me three-four months to reach near-completion, and because of a romance trap, it all has to be redone. Yeah, I'm still bitter about it. I still haven't replayed that MaleShep.

The problem is, even though it's a glitch and not really the character's fault, it's easy to resent the character for what comes off as someone who doesn't know how to take a hint, that the person she insists she's in a romantic relationship with has no interest in her whatsoever. Because of this, people have to plan ahead, either ignoring her or recruiting her last so the romance can't activate. Then in the sequels, she takes on a forced-friend role to Shepards who could have been downright mean to her in ME1.

If it wasn't for the romance trap, I would probably still just dislike her. But with romance trap in addition to forced-friendship that can contradict the way Shepard previously treated her, it makes me feel like Liara just won't leave my Shepards alone. She's become a character that they desperately need to avoid if they're not romantic or friends with her, unless they're willing to lie.

I know plenty of other people who have chosen their Virmire casualty based on who is more likely to trap-romance them. This hasn't been possible with Liara yet, but if it was, I'd take the option a few times to keep my Shepards safe, for sure.

[The Sarendoctrinator]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Although I successfully avoid romance-trapping, I do that anyway, just to be on the safe side. Kill opposite-gender VS and romance opposite-gender Dextro, that's my standard plan.

That's actually what my MaleShep was doing (Ashley died on Virmire when he chose to protect the nuke that Kaidan was guarding, and he's supposed to romance Tali in ME2) until Liara trapped him.

[Ryzaki]

The Sarendoctrinator wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I will never get the Liara hate. So because she can't get killed people hate her? That makes no sense. Of course most of the time these days the bsn makes no sense.

I can only speak for myself here, but I think there might be others with the same reasons as mine.

I never liked Liara. Her personality, her story in general - she's just the type of character who doesn't interest me, and can be annoying at times. There were only a few qualities about her character that I liked. I basically avoided her in my first playthroughs. But then, I decided to go through all of her conversations in ME1. The MaleShep I was playing at the time, in a NG+ to perfect all of his choices before importing him into ME2, happened to be one who doesn't get along with or trust her. When my options came up on the dialogue wheel - romance, friends, or not interested - I played him according to character and chose "not interested." As it turns out, that line is a romance trap. No way to get out of it once you choose that option, not even when he shouted and told her off at the Normandy lockdown scene.

Now, I don't have as much time to play games as I would like. That playthrough took me three-four months to reach near-completion, and because of a romance trap, it all has to be redone. Yeah, I'm still bitter about it. I still haven't replayed that MaleShep.

The problem is, even though it's a glitch and not really the character's fault, it's easy to resent the character for what comes off as someone who doesn't know how to take a hint, that the person she insists she's in a romantic relationship with has no interest in her whatsoever. Because of this, people have to plan ahead, either ignoring her or recruiting her last so the romance can't activate. Then in the sequels, she takes on a forced-friend role to Shepards who could have been downright mean to her in ME1.

If it wasn't for the romance trap, I would probably still just dislike her. But with romance trap in addition to forced-friendship that can contradict the way Shepard previously treated her, it makes me feel like Liara just won't leave my Shepards alone. She's become a character that they desperately need to avoid if they're not romantic or friends with her, unless they're willing to lie.

I know plenty of other people who have chosen their Virmire casualty based on who is more likely to trap-romance them. This hasn't been possible with Liara yet, but if it was, I'd take the option a few times to keep my Shepards safe, for sure.

I'm pretty similar.

And the bolded is why Ash is left on Virmire at the AA tower 99% of the time.

[LucidStrike]

Shepard Lives wrote...

The thread title made me lol.

She's "deathless." D:

[Ryzaki]

jreezy wrote...

Merchant2006 wrote...

Joker's lack of death too. Let's not forget about that!

Indeed. Joker should've died in ME2.

Or Shep should've at least been able to chew him out. <_<

[The Sarendoctrinator]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

How evil of her. I always pick the neutral option, so I manage to avoid her snare. I did romance her once, but it was on purpose, not a trap.

This poor MaleShep of mine never got to romance Tali. ): His playthroughs have been put on hold until after ME3.

Where is Tali with that shotgun when he needs her? ...Oh right, the engine room. He should hide there next time.

Ryzaki wrote...

I'm pretty similar.

And the bolded is why Ash is left on Virmire at the AA tower 99% of the time.

I don't know what my MaleShep said to Ashley to make this happen, but the subject of romance never came up with her during his playthrough. It seemed so natural. They didn't get along, hardly had anything in common, didn't agree with each other most of the time, and she didn't want to date him. I wish Liara's dialogue had worked out like that.

[Ryzaki]

The Sarendoctrinator wrote...
I don't know what my MaleShep said to Ashley to make this happen, but the subject of romance never came up with her during his playthrough. It seemed so natural. They didn't get along, hardly had anything in common, didn't agree with each other most of the time, and she didn't want to date him. I wish Liara's dialogue had worked out like that.

He probably told her to knock it off when she was going about Garrus and Wrex poking around the stations. Sadly most of my Sheps aren't douchenozzles. (The one that was though agreed with her on that front so he had to get ninja'd until he told her to keep it professional * )

[DarkDragon777]

jreezy wrote...

Merchant2006 wrote...

Joker's lack of death too. Let's not forget about that!

Indeed. Joker should've died in ME2.

[kglaser]

Everyone should be able to die. Everyone.

[The Sarendoctrinator]

That must have been what I did, telling Ashley off when she talked about Garrus and Wrex. At least I probably won't have any trouble having it work out that way again. I just have to choose the one that sounds most in-character for my MaleShep, as I did the first time. Now I worry for the others who are less extreme though.

I always have more respect for characters when they don't have romance traps. Even if I like nothing else about them, then at least I can respect them for that. I hope ME3 won't have any of these problems, but just in case, I'll be avoiding everyone but Team Dextro and unromanceable characters again. I won't even speak to Liara at times when it's not required on my first playthrough.

Cthulhu42 wrote...

My condolences to your poor MShep. Perhaps you should just avoid Liara altogether, just to be safe.

I'll be recruiting her last when I replay him. That way, I can get funny hallucination dialogue and avoid romance.

[PrinceLionheart]

The Sarendoctrinator wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I will never get the Liara hate. So because she can't get killed people hate her? That makes no sense. Of course most of the time these days the bsn makes no sense.

I can only speak for myself here, but I think there might be others with the same reasons as mine.

I never liked Liara. Her personality, her story in general - she's just the type of character who doesn't interest me, and can be annoying at times. There were only a few qualities about her character that I liked. I basically avoided her in my first playthroughs. But then, I decided to go through all of her conversations in ME1. The MaleShep I was playing at the time, in a NG+ to perfect all of his choices before importing him into ME2, happened to be one who doesn't get along with or trust her. When my options came up on the dialogue wheel - romance, friends, or not interested - I played him according to character and chose "not interested." As it turns out, that line is a romance trap. No way to get out of it once you choose that option, not even when he shouted and told her off at the Normandy lockdown scene.

Now, I don't have as much time to play games as I would like. That playthrough took me three-four months to reach near-completion, and because of a romance trap, it all has to be redone. Yeah, I'm still bitter about it. I still haven't replayed that MaleShep.

The problem is, even though it's a glitch and not really the character's fault, it's easy to resent the character for what comes off as someone who doesn't know how to take a hint, that the person she insists she's in a romantic relationship with has no interest in her whatsoever. Because of this, people have to plan ahead, either ignoring her or recruiting her last so the romance can't activate. Then in the sequels, she takes on a forced-friend role to Shepards who could have been downright mean to her in ME1.

If it wasn't for the romance trap, I would probably still just dislike her. But with romance trap in addition to forced-friendship that can contradict the way Shepard previously treated her, it makes me feel like Liara just won't leave my Shepards alone. She's become a character that they desperately need to avoid if they're not romantic or friends with her, unless they're willing to lie.

I know plenty of other people who have chosen their Virmire casualty based on who is more likely to trap-romance them. This hasn't been possible with Liara yet, but if it was, I'd take the option a few times to keep my Shepards safe, for sure.

Romance trap aside, a lot of people hate the idea of their PC being railroaded into having a certain personality. Anyone who is indifferent towards Liara is forced into become besties with her during the LoTSB. 

Not a big deal for me, but it can be a deal breaker.

[GuardianAngel470]

Personally I didn't like Liara in ME1 (but wasn't hostile toward her), didn't really warm up to her in ME2 (but always helped her with her mission), and then played LotSB and decided to have at least one romance with her where I didn't pick someone else.

My grievances with her character are numerous but I'd sound like a jerk if I listed them so I won't. I will say that I don't really care if she is the only person that can't die in either ME1 or ME2. I see it more as a coincidence than an evil master plan. Each game had their "canon"* romance. In ME1 it was Liara. In ME2 it was Tali. I don't really think there's that much significance and even if there is, I don't really care.

*"Canon" isn't strictly accurate, but consider that in ME1 Liara is the only romance option with their own introductory mission and that in she is the only romance available for both genders. Also consider that she is the only one that is... emphasized to the player.

In ME2 Tali is the only one where romantic dialog is given during a loyalty mission. None of the other romances have a line like "I got better Shepard; I got you." let alone delivered in such an emotional way.

[Riero3]

Liara's plot armor doesn't bother me. At least they gave her a rest in ME2. Tali and Garrus being shoved down our throats in all three games is far more annoying for me.