905 réponses à ce sujet

[The Elder King]

Dariustwinblade wrote...

Why are ppl so pissed off about he not dying. I hate killing off squadmates why can't there be one unkillable character. For the sake of the plot Liara should be completely unkillable for the entire trilogy.

DA 2 had Varric and Flameth and Sandle.
KOTOR had Mandalore.
DA:O and DA:A had Morrigan, Leliana and Anders.

Why are ppl b*tching so much about one consistant character.
Some characters are more important than others. Deal with it!

In DA:O Leliana could die in the Urn of Sacred Ashes. And Anders can die in DA:A (for the Vigil's Keep bug he died in DAA), but he'll return to live thanks to Justice.
Flemeth and Sandal aren't companions.

About Liara, I don't have problem with her being impossible to kill. My only problem is the force friendship on LOTSB (my Shepard is generally a friend with Liara, but why I have to be friend with her if I decided to not be her friend in ME and ME2?).

[KawaiiKatie]

Roxy12 wrote...

But you know that Liara's ME2 content is completely optional, yes? You don't even have to visit Illium to start the collector base mission.

Yeah, but if you want Thane or Samara, you have to visit Liara, and the moment you do so, no matter how your Shepard may feel about her, Shepard opens his/her arms and throws them around Liara. No one else gets that kind of greeting, except for the Virmire Survivor, if Shepard was in a relationship with him or her.

Now try to finish the game without Garrus. You're right, Shepard can tell Garrus to bugger off in ME1 - and Garrus is still Shepards canon buddy in Mass Effect 2.

Again, I'm going to have to disagree with you, here. Garrus is not Shepard's "canon buddy" and doesn't act like it at all if you didn't recruit him in ME1. In fact, I don't think he ever says, "Just like old times!" the way he does with Shepards who he already served with. Yes, he's a required character to recruit in ME2 (like Miranda and Jacob) but Shepard is not required to befriend him. Shepard's negligence, in fact, can get Garrus killed.

But no matter what happens, Liara lives on! Though Virmire is getting nuked and Wrex is growing hostile and Collector Bases are exploding... Liara strives on, ready to star in her own comics and DLC.

No one should be safe in ME3. Liara, like everyone else, should be able to die.

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 03 juillet 2011 - 09:47 .

[mineralica]

Dariustwinblade wrote...

Why are ppl so pissed off about he not dying. I hate killing off squadmates why can't there be one unkillable character. For the sake of the plot Liara should be completely unkillable for the entire trilogy.

DA 2 had Varric and Flameth and Sandle.
KOTOR had Mandalore.
DA:O and DA:A had Morrigan, Leliana and Anders.

Why are ppl b*tching so much about one consistant character.
Some characters are more important than others. Deal with it!

Just random mind wandering from a woman getting old.

Yes, some characters should be constant for sake of plot. Yes, this is irritating for some fans - "why can't I get rid of X?". What can authors do to irritate fans less? Lessen the influence of constant characters and lessen their screen time, so if someone is already irritated may pretend that their PC is also irritated and not want to spend time with named person while people who love him will go squee. Small concentration of returning character causes happiness from remembering who is it - "look it's X!" while large concentration may cause "finally, X, leave me alone!". This worked for Sandal.

Another thing which may help raging fans - death/exiling from party of returning character. Even if they are returning later, you may always replay the moment of their death and be partially satisfied. From people you named, Flemeth may be - temporarily - killed, Morrigan may be exiled from party (though she'll return before final battle with "proposal") and killed more or less permanently during Witch Hunt, Leliana may be not recruited in DA:O, killed at Urn of Sacred Ashes (temporarily. Great job, DA2), Anders may be given to templars at the beginning of DA:A or ...something may happen with him at the end of DA2 tralala don't know if spoilers are allowed).

Don't know anything amout Mandalore because I didn't play KOTOR. The only reference in my memory is Canderous...

And now we get to Varric. Yes, he's unkillable and extremely important to plot, but he's DA2-only, he hasn't got questionable moments and major problems as most of squadmates. In another words, he hasn't got sharp edges - something like spherical dwarf covered with humor as with chocolate.

And what we have in ME? Constant character who was tightly connected with plot in ME1, was a key to two characters in ME2 and in addition it's only character who has own DLC. She can't die - at least isn't in party in 2nd game; and has plenty of "sharp edges" (giving Shepard's body to Cerberus and not telling anyone, personality shift between ME1 and ME2, not at all pleasing moment "be careful and not turn into who are you fight against" - "said former SpeCTRe working for terrorists"). I understand that returning characters are necessary for continuation of plot, but for now this combination of features doesn't make fans happy from seeing familiar face - it irritates many as "favouritism". Maybe connection between the games might be done in more subtle way?

Modifié par mineralica, 03 juillet 2011 - 12:27 .

[Robhuzz]

Yes, some characters should be constant for sake of plot. Yes, this is irritating for some fans - "why can't I get rid of X?". What can authors do to irritate fans less? Lessen the influence of constant characters and lessen their screen time, so if someone is already irritated may pretend that their PC is also irritated and not want to spend time with named person while people who love him will go squee.

If an important character (important enough to be unkillable at least) isn't important enough for the story to have a decent amount of screen time and influence, one has to wonder why this character is important enough not be killable in the first place...

Don't know anything amout Mandalore because I didn't play KOTOR. The only reference in my memory is Canderous...

They're the same. Canderous Ordo becomes the leader of the Mandalorians, known as Mandalore in KOTOR 2

[Asari_Party]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

But no matter what happens, Liara lives on! Though Virmire is getting nuked and Wrex is growing hostile and Collector Bases are exploding... Liara strives on, ready to star in her own comics and DLC.

Do you really think any fan of Tali/Garrus/Miranda etc. would be happy with a comic/DLC if their respective favorite characters get a crappy 5 min cameo role in ME3? That's your definition of favoritism?

Modifié par Roxy12, 03 juillet 2011 - 12:47 .

[Kreid]

It's because awesome characters can't die, and if they do, they are revived as transhuman zombie-cyborgs.

[kumquats]

In theory Garrus could have been the one who rescues Shepard's corpse and they could have made him Shepard's canon friend.
But I guess they heavily featured a male protagonist for the ME series and wanted to have a female "lead" character. Someone who will be in all the games.

The question is, could you make a story without constants, only based on variables? I think that would be a nightmare for a writer.

Modifié par kumquats, 03 juillet 2011 - 03:07 .

[Dariustwinblade]

InviolateNK you bring up a good point. Joker is in all 3 games. Why dosent ppl call that favouritism. Why can't I not have Joker. Why do I have to save his cripple ass. I should have been in the shuttle not hauling Joker's ass into it and getting myself killed. Even than after being responsible for his death I an forced to be his friend.

[ladyvader]

Since this thread came back to the front page.

This is to those that think that Shepard was wrong in grabbing Liara instead of the other squad member when the yahg threw the table. Replay that scene. Liara is about one foot to Shepard's right. Very close. The other squad member is about three feet behind Shepard and to the left. The Yahg threw the table in between Shepard the other squad mate. There is no way, Shepard is going to dive backwards when Liara is closer. And if Shepard would have dove the other way, Shepard would have been hit with the table too.

Like I said, replay that scene and take a close look.

I recorded it last night and I have not had a time to edit the video plus the quality of the vid is poor.

[Saberchic]

Liara is now the SB, and she will have an important role to play. I just figured that she needed plot armor.

She was always going to be around for ME3, just like whoever you chose to be the VS. The VS got plot armor too.

Besides, it'll be the 3rd game. Nobody should have plot armor then.

[ladyvader]

Saberchic wrote...

Liara is now the SB, and she will have an important role to play. I just figured that she needed plot armor.

She was always going to be around for ME3, just like whoever you chose to be the VS. The VS got plot armor too.

Besides, it'll be the 3rd game. Nobody should have plot armor then.

I said that earlier in the thread that I think everyone including Shepard could die in ME3.   I also think Liara gets attacked by Cerberus and that is why she is on the Normandy instead at the Hagalaz base.  Hagalaz hasn't even been a confirmed planet yet.  Illium is.  Which makes me wonder if that is where we pick her up at. 

[ISpeakTheTruth]

It is unfair that she is the only character that we can't remove from our game if we don't want her. In ME if you don't like a character than at some point in the two games you had the ability to remove said character but not her? It clearly seems like favortism to me and that I don't like.

[Raizo]

She obviously has an important role to play in ME3, Casey Hudson has hinted as much in interviews where he has explained why the VS and Liara were not recruitable in ME2.

God I can't stand the fact that Me3 is going to be dominated by characters that I have little or no love for.

[Saberchic]

ladyvader wrote...

Saberchic wrote...

Liara is now the SB, and she will have an important role to play. I just figured that she needed plot armor.

She was always going to be around for ME3, just like whoever you chose to be the VS. The VS got plot armor too.

Besides, it'll be the 3rd game. Nobody should have plot armor then.

I said that earlier in the thread that I think everyone including Shepard could die in ME3.   I also think Liara gets attacked by Cerberus and that is why she is on the Normandy instead at the Hagalaz base.  Hagalaz hasn't even been a confirmed planet yet.  Illium is.  Which makes me wonder if that is where we pick her up at. 

Sounds like we're on the same wavelength.
Liara getting attacked by Cerberus wouldn't be out of line with the direction we know we're going so far in the game.

I think some people are bitter at Liara for their own reasons, and regardless of the plot's necessities, just don't want to see her and therefore claim "favoritism."

[Robhuzz]

ladyvader wrote...

Saberchic wrote...

Liara is now the SB, and she will have an important role to play. I just figured that she needed plot armor.

She was always going to be around for ME3, just like whoever you chose to be the VS. The VS got plot armor too.

Besides, it'll be the 3rd game. Nobody should have plot armor then.

I said that earlier in the thread that I think everyone including Shepard could die in ME3.   I also think Liara gets attacked by Cerberus and that is why she is on the Normandy instead at the Hagalaz base.  Hagalaz hasn't even been a confirmed planet yet.  Illium is.  Which makes me wonder if that is where we pick her up at. 

It would be a little highly anticlimactic if we contact Liara using the normandy's ftl comm system and have EDI tell us Liara's signal is coming from Illium. Once there, Liara tells us that Cerberus attacked the base and because she didn't want that information falling into the wrong hands, she destroyed it, not to say I don't see this coming... I do think there are better ways to do this though.

Hagalaz doesn't really need to be confirmed (imo) because we won't be landing on the planet itself. Like Liara mentioned, it becomes boiling hot during the day then freezing cold 10 minutes after sundown. Not a place for Shepard to land on. Not to mention there's little more than a vast ocean there.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Raizo wrote...

She obviously has an important role to play in ME3, Casey Hudson has hinted as much in interviews where he has explained why the VS and Liara were not recruitable in ME2.

God I can't stand the fact that Me3 is going to be dominated by characters that I have little or no love for.

This.

I don't like that the two characters that were the most bland in ME1 are going to be forced onto my team and into my face. The three characters that I want in my game are Miranda, Legion, and Mordin these are my all time favorite characters and I bet none of them will be permanent squad members because they've been squeezed out to make room for characters that I never liked.

[ladyvader]

Raizo wrote...

She obviously has an important role to play in ME3, Casey Hudson has hinted as much in interviews where he has explained why the VS and Liara were not recruitable in ME2.

God I can't stand the fact that Me3 is going to be dominated by characters that I have little or no love for.

I didn't like being with Cerberus and having an them spy on Shepard the whole time.  I don't like Miranda and yet she is forced on me, same with Jacob.  Jacob at least served with the Alliance, and to quote Jack, Miranda is nothing but a Cerberus cheerleader.  I don't care if she quit or not.  She still think Cerberus is a good thing and tried too hard to get Shepard to like the group.

My advice since you seem bent about it, don't play ME3.  Or go with the story and enjoy that.  There are reasons for why Liara and VS are back.  Either deal with it or don't play it.  Simple choice.  

[CheeseEnchilada]

Raizo wrote...

She obviously has an important role to play in ME3, Casey Hudson has hinted as much in interviews where he has explained why the VS and Liara were not recruitable in ME2.

God I can't stand the fact that Me3 is going to be dominated by characters that I have little or no love for.

This hits the nail on the head for me. I don't dislike Liara or the VS, but knowing that they're going to be huge, pivotal characters makes me sigh a little. My own set of favorites either haven't been confirmed or are unlikey to return in a large role, and I fully admit it makes me a little bitter.

I hang out with Liara in ME1. I get her the SB job in ME2. Annnd she's back on my squad in ME3.

I'm sure she's got a good reason why she isn't doing the SB job, and I'm not going to toss her out an airlock or anything. But knowing that she's got plot armor and a large role in all three games while my favorites may be delegated to cameos doesn't help.

Some characters are more important to the plot than others. I understand, and it makes sense. Once we get information on other squadmates, I'll be at peace. 

And as for Liara being unable to die?

I don't wish flaming death rained upon her by any means, but having anyone be able to die would, in my mind, enhance the game and raise the stakes. Not that I want everyone dropping dead like flies, mind you--but no one should have plot immunity minus Shepard, and that's only until the endgame. If I have to send someone to certain death, I should be able to pick anyone, and live with the consequences. 

Modifié par CheeseEnchilada, 03 juillet 2011 - 05:41 .

[Dariustwinblade]

I wanted to renagade interrupt the VS on Horizon and b*tchslap them into submission.

All I got"I can see you wont listen to reason"

I wanted to smash Joker out the nearest airlock why do I have to be stuck with him for all the 3 games. Even take control of him to make sure he lives. If he dosen't live its a "critical mission failure".

What do I do I ignore it relax and play the game. XD

[tomas2377]

I liked Liara as a friend during ME1. Didn't romance her because her character didn't appeal to me in that way. More like in a big sister kind of way. I cared about the character in a friendly/family way.

Like my avatar suggests I romanced Ashley and stayed loyal to her. What got a lot annoying about Liara was that she was always hitting on me during ME1 and ME2. Hey, I am taken. I'm with Ashley. Stop it! But she never did. That's when I began to get very frustrated with her. No hate yet. Just being frustrated with her behavior towards me because she didn't get or wanted to understand a perfectly clear "No way!" about a possible relationship with her.

What really drove me to the hate camp of Liara is the fact that she betrayed Shepard to Cerberus. I hated Cerberus since ME1.

I believe that I don't have to recount all the bad things that they did and being forced to work for Cerberus (terrorists) in ME2 made my hatred grow for them.

Finding then out that a member of your so called extended family betrayed you to them was the icing on the cake. Annoyance and frustration turned into pure hatred for Liara.

I will be hugely disappointed if she is again unkillable in ME3. As soon as I have the choice to kill her off/let her die I will without a second thought.

I am sorry and I apologize to any Liara fans who might take this as a personal insult. Rest assured. No insult is intended. Those are just my feelings towards Liara.

Modifié par tomas2377, 03 juillet 2011 - 06:05 .

[Lozark]

I'm increasingly wary of Liara, honestly.  This is a Bioware game, but no one in Shep's squad has turned to the dark side or betrayed Shep or anything.  The only character who's guaranteed to be in all three games is Liara...

The knife is coming, but I am not letting her anywhere near my back in ME3.  I am on to her.

[ladyvader]

Dariustwinblade wrote...

I wanted to renagade interrupt the VS on Horizon and b*tchslap them into submission.

All I got"I can see you wont listen to reason"

I wanted to smash Joker out the nearest airlock why do I have to be stuck with him for all the 3 games. Even take control of him to make sure he lives. If he dosen't live its a "critical mission failure".

What do I do I ignore it relax and play the game. XD

I will agree, the writers dropped the ball when it comes to Horizon.  That could have been written in a different way and better. 

[AngelicMachinery]

Dariustwinblade wrote...


I wanted to smash Joker out the nearest airlock why do I have to be stuck with him for all the 3 games. Even take control of him to make sure he lives. If he dosen't live its a "critical mission failure".

If Joker dies you won't have a ship to go back to bro,  of course it's a critical mission failure.