21 réponses à ce sujet

[M. Rieder]

The 3rd-level wizard's spell Clairaudience & Clairvoyance, in its current form, is marginally useful at best, providing a +10 bonus to listen and spot checks.  I think that this should be a more useful spell and want to change it to allow the Wizard to gain a better understanding of his/her environment through the use of this spell. 

I am already scripting specific instances when this spell will be useful, but I was also trying to think of a more general way to use the spell.  Any ideas?

[painofdungeoneternal]

I would suggest hooking it up to the spell hook for your module, then implement "visions" and other information which is not easily found in other ways in your module. Most of it's utility in PNP has little to do with combat bonuses, and more to do with the story and module specifics. For example you learn what is in that nearby dungeon without having to go in, or learn it's full of mind flayers so you can cast mind blank on your party. On a PW a message to the dm when it's cast can allow the dm to give the player customized info.

[BartjeD]

I have a spell script which creates an instanced area which the player can explore for the duration of the spell. All creatures are there but triggers and encounters are removed. They have no AI and attacking or otherwise doing anything but examining will end the spell. (creatures with the Non-Detection spell don't show up though)

There is also the possibility of stumbling on someone else while scrying (this is my scrying spell) such as Aldanon keeping tabs on you or a range of other creatures. This has a small chance of happening. (Githyanki amongst others may also gate to your location and attack if they encounter you while scrying from the astral)

A copy of the PC remains in the original area and if it is attacked then the spell ends as well with the PC inheriting all damage inflicted on it. The same for any effects that it may get affected with.

Another divination spell is to give survial 30 skill so the player can see enemies in the area for the duration.

[Edit] This *should* be possible through the spell hook as well on both counts 

Modifié par BartjeD, 21 juin 2011 - 07:21 .

[Arkalezth]

What pain said. Similar to track/survival for rangers. Maybe for some kind of puzzle too.

I've never used this spell, personally.

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

Following Arkalezth, a simple solution may be to temporarily give the tracking feat along with a survival skill bonus.

You could also open up a conversation that gives you hints or other bits of information based on quest state.

Or maybe an invisible companion that you can control and use to explore the area ahead of your party.

[The Fred]

In BG it explored outdoor areas for you. This is pretty useless in NWN2, but if you were to use Lance's Fog of War system, you could make it function that way. It's still only useful if you have large outdoor areas with things worth exploring, though (although you could make it, say, reveal map pins as well, which might be interesting).

[PJ156]

I always found it painful in BG, the fog of war was less useful for hiding where you are going as showing you where you have been.

I think mod specifc use is fine but you need to give the pc a hint when to use it.

My interpretation is that is is a link to a spirit plane and that the spirits give you insights into your current situation that you might not otherwise have. I personally think simply telling you where monsters are is a little trite but that could be you question. I.e. what is behind that door or who is in that grove. Remembering the spell requires that you know the location, thus it cannot be used for exploration.

This is off interpretation for the D&D spell I think but how about when you cast it a spirit is summoned. You may ask that spirit one question then it leaves. Thus you can manage the transfer of information through a convo. With tests on location and current position in the story arc you can keep the questions relevant and make the spell useful without spoiling surprises.

PJ

[M. Rieder]

These suggestions are excellent. I am definitely going to incorporate custom area and plot based information, and I am considering the tracking+survival bonus as well. That is a very clever and simple solution.

Regarding the spirit plane, perhaps I could make the spell summon a spirit and in a conversation with the spirit, I can learn certain things based on my location and quest states. Maybe there can be a limit to how many questions I can ask the spirit.

Everyone, these suggestions have really given me something to think about. Thanks.

If anyone else wishes to contribute, please do. I havent made any changes yet and am still open to suggestions.

[Arkalezth]

I like Lugaid's ideas. An invisible companion may be fun, and similar to BG's system. The "problem" is that you could go invisible yourself (or the familiar) to the same effect, so no much change there. Giving the feat Track temporaly sounds good and (from what Lugaid says) simple, if we can't come up with anything better.

If you could see through walls and the like, it'd be cool, but I don't think that can be done in this game.

That said, I don't remember the exact description of the spell. I should take a look at it.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 22 juin 2011 - 01:39 .

[kamal_]

You want to give undead tracking feat as well, since you could see them via clarivoyance. Undead don't get tracked by default.

[Arkalezth]

kamal_ wrote...

Undead don't get tracked by default.

Rangers can track them, as any other enemy, in my experience. Not sure about other classes, I rarely take track/survival with non-rangers.

[M. Rieder]

I like the invisible companion idea. I could make it invisible and set faction to neutral so that nothing would bother it. On the other hand, I'd have to change all my trigger scripts to not trigger when the invisible companion comes by.... hmm.... that's not appealling. We'll see. I think I may stick with the tracking feats and the special plot related information.

Maybe I could make the spell give an option: 1) gain tracking abilities 2) answer questions about the area/plot.

[M. Rieder]

Ooohhh! I just thought of a problem with the tracking feat idea. Lots of my enemies are spawned from encounters, so the PC wouldn't see them on their minimap until they were spawned.... any thoughts on circimventing this?

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

You could always just spawn a bunch of rats or something at the location of each encounter, and then de-spawn them when the spell wears off. You could even make a ninja using the invisible man appearance.

It might be simplest, if time-consuming, to lay down waypoints with a particular tag at each encounter, enough to represent the average strength of the encounter. In the spell script, you run a loop that cycles through the waypoints by using GetNearestObjectByTag, and spawn an encounter ninja at each waypoint. Then you use another loop at spell end to destroy the ninjas.

[The Fred]

If you want to use it to scout enemies, that could work, but you could just make it so that you visit an instanced area with no creatures in for terrain-scouting purposes. The player could even be made cutscene ghost so that they can float through doors and things.

[BartjeD]

You can use the instanced area idea to spawn the encounters, set their AI's to off and remove all scripts.Thereby preventing combat & conversation. This can be done by using the function TriggerEncounter although I have yet to implement this into the scrying spell.

That way the PC sees everything that was originally in the area, barring triggers which you delete in the instance but can't get into fights. Encounter creatures are spawned and can then be examined too.

I check for whatever action the PC is doing using a mini heartbeat while the spell is active or until the PC's clone in the "real world" is attacked / harmed. That way you cannot escape into the scrying world to heal.

Creatures without scripts can't converse either so you can spawn in creatures in the instanced area the PC can converse with without having to worry about him conversing with creatures from the original area. This can be used to represent spirits or whatever. I use it to show other people that are sometimes watching what the PC is doing such as Aldanon, a bored Lich etc..

This means that you won't have to include conversation as an action that cancels the spell allowing you to do story events in the clairvoyancy / instanced area

[edit] Just PM me if you want the spell script, it can be adapted to the spell hook

Modifié par BartjeD, 22 juin 2011 - 12:38 .

[BartjeD]

The Fred wrote...

If you want to use it to scout enemies, that could work, but you could just make it so that you visit an instanced area with no creatures in for terrain-scouting purposes. The player could even be made cutscene ghost so that they can float through doors and things.

I tried setting the PC and a clone of the PC as cutscene ghost and spawning them inside / on top of one another. To get the effect of the PC leaving his real body behind and going off to explore the area with his mind through magical means.

It doesn't work, the PC won't load into the instanced area within a clone copy. (2 clones, one in the real area and one in the instanced area)

Is this possible? It would be a very neat effect!

Modifié par BartjeD, 22 juin 2011 - 12:40 .

[Ykhare]

On PWs that spell is actually part of the "few-buttons major pain in the behind kit" from stealthers' POV, as one of the ways to rake such a massive hike to perceptive skills that even a character who developped average spot/listen can get pretty good at nabbing way better stealthers at a moment's notice.

Maybe include some situation(s) where the PC gets access to some kind of early initiative combat advantage, bonus or easter egg if (s)he's lucky, talented or buffed enough to notice someone or something fairly stealthy skulking about.

[The Fred]

Well, the spell name literally means something like "Clear Hearing / Clear Seeing", right? So, you could just make it an improved See Invisibility type spell, like See Invis + Blindness / Deafness Immunity, perhaps with part of the skill bonus thrown in. That wouldn't be very exciting, mind, but it'd be functional and somewhat useful without being too powerful or too much work. I think I'd rather see one of these other ideas in action, though.

[Arkalezth]

Arkalezth wrote...

kamal_ wrote...

Undead don't get tracked by default.

Rangers can track them, as any other enemy, in my experience. Not sure about other classes, I rarely take track/survival with non-rangers.

I think I know how it works now, as I'm playing a character with a few ranks in Survival and no Track feat. As kamal said, undead don't get tracked apparently, but other enemies do. They get tracked if you have Track.

Now the question is: what does the feat Track does, other than track undead? I don't see any difference with other enemy types.

[MasterChanger]

Arkalezth wrote...

Arkalezth wrote...

kamal_ wrote...

Undead don't get tracked by default.

Rangers can track them, as any other enemy, in my experience. Not sure about other classes, I rarely take track/survival with non-rangers.

I think I know how it works now, as I'm playing a character with a few ranks in Survival and no Track feat. As kamal said, undead don't get tracked apparently, but other enemies do. They get tracked if you have Track.

Now the question is: what does the feat Track does, other than track undead? I don't see any difference with other enemy types.

I'm pretty sure that with Survival ranks but no Track feat, you can track only Humanoids and Animals (and perhaps Beasts, but I'm not sure about that one). So anything like Vermin, Outsiders, Undead, Constructs would all not be trackable unless you have the Track feat.

Since this is all manifested through the map GUIs, however, I wonder whether eventually someone will create a system to recreate tracking with custom parameters. It's probably a lot of information to keep track of in a manual way, but Lance's Fog of War system has convinced me that it's likely doable.

[kamal_]

Gray orc: track is a racial feat, and their smell ability means even otherwise undetectable opponents like invisible enemies show on the minimap. Nothing escapes a GO druid or ranger.

Off topic for thread though.