210 réponses à ce sujet

[gingerbill]

DLC's never really intrest me as they just dont have the work put in , i would happily spend the money if they were good . The only DAO DLC i purchased was leliana's song' and though i loved her character in DAO i didnt like the DLC , it felt cheap. And i hear that was one of the better ones . Morrigan was my favourite character in DAO and i was eager for her story to continue but i never purchased 'witch hunt' as it sounded like it would be a let down.

I'd rather they just made DA3 unless they can pull off a great DLC.

[In Exile]

I think Bioware needs a redesign. It doesn't have to be radical, but essentially, I would say that a new DLC has to be a 'mini game' as a test-pilot for a different direction in DA3.

We need new and detailed environments, not just a reskin of a previous area. We need truly branching choice and outcomes. We need the ability to interact with our party beyond the 'it looks like a quest' journal entry - even ME1-ME2 have more than that, although they run out of dialogue pretty fast.

[Aaleel]

DLC won't decide the fate of the series IMHO. DA2 is always going to be DA2 for better or worse, nothing can change that now.

DA3 I think is the crossroads. They'll find out whether the gamble for short term profit was worth it, how many fans they lost, and just how many new fans they brought in.

But if they do make DLC, first and foremost it has to add new unique areas, under no circumstances can it have you running around the same areas again. It should also fill in what happened during some of those 3 year time skips to flesh the story out more.

They shouldn't try to delve into the mage/templar conflict, that should be an entirely new game.

[AngryFrozenWater]

When I look at DA:O's DLCs then I see lots of different quality levels. The ME franchise has the same problem. I've given that some thought, but I cannot come up with a reason why.

DLCs that require an import don't add any replay value to me. I only play those once. I rather have one that plays before the end of the story and wouldn't mind if they could be played after that as well. One that can only be played after is not something I like and would play it only once.

I wish the PC would be Hawke and all companions be available, fully voice acted, and recognize past events. I am not interested to play someone else. It's Hawke's story and I like to see that continued in the DLCs.

I am absolutely not interested in a combat only DLC.

A lot of feedback has been given already, so I take it that it will contain new locations and no recycled maps. The waves of enemies that pop up from thin air should be gone as well. Things like that.

The Sebastian DLC did a great job in expanding the grand cleric. I would love something like that for Meredith or Orsino. In Orsino's case maybe something that explains why he turns against you even when you've chosen his side.

But I rather have BW dream up the story. They are capable enough to dream one up.

High-end unique weapons and armor as rewards (maybe with some cool lore which you learn in-game) would be great.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 21 juin 2011 - 07:39 .

[LordPaul256]

As fans who love this wondrous world and who do not desire to see its demise, which type of DLCs would you like Bioware to produce?

I can't honestly imagine a DLC fixing this game.  First of all, I can't see many people who dislike the game currently being willing to pay more to 'fix' the game.  Some, sure, but not a majority.  Releasing it for free isn't a better option, as it would be seen as a message of defeat or having erred.  That does not seem to be the PR stance at present, not to mention it would be a financial loss.

Taking all that into consideration, the DLC would have to be on the level of Mask of the Betrayer.  Large, expansive, given to player agency, and very good value.  It would be a hard sell no matter what, and creating something exceptional is not a mere matter of willing it to happen, so I'd have to return to my original point of I can't see DLC working.

What type of improvements would you like Bioware to incorporate that will enliven or add continuity to Dragon Age II?

Continuity?  (SOME SPOILERS).  Making the optional deaths of Zevran & Leliana in the first game actually matter would be nice.  I understand that Zevran's possible appearance in DA2 was bug, but that Leliana's alive no matter what.  Returning that player agency would be nice.  I know it's frowned upon to bring up, for some reason, but how Wrex was handled in ME2 is a good example of how to do it right.

I have absolutely no idea how the Anders continuity could be fixed.  It's... well, unfixable really.  Too bad, that.

As for improvements?  Nothing beyond what has already been mentioned ad infinitum.  Waves, re-used envrionments, etc.  I heard 1.03 fixed some balancing, but it's not enough to make me reinstall the game. 

Perhaps you were looking for minor improvements that could actually implemented?  In that case, I don't think it would be worth the manpower to do, though the gesture by BioWare would be nice.  Like adding item descriptions, stuff like that.  Pipe dream, perhaps.

What do you fans desire Bioware to concentrate upon, in your opinion,
which will keep the features that worked in DA II while implementing
some of the features, if any, from DA:O that you enjoy, meshing it all
together to create, if not the ideal, but a pleasurable game experience?

Asking a lot, there.

I liked the visceral feel of combat in DA2, but not the execution.  I replayed DA:O recently, and while the combat was slower (as if that is a bad thing) I enjoyed it authenticity and sense of strategy.  How one could merge the two, I do not know, as I'm not a game designer, merely an armchair quarterback.

I do like the skill tree improvements.  That's a straight-up improvement to me.

Other than that...

I really have nothing.  I had a list of positives and negatives of the game I was making up when it was released, but during the wave of back 'n' forth in the forums since then I've decided it wasn't worth the effort to even mention most of it, as others already had and the cream would, in theory, float to the top.  I since think the cream has hijacked a car and is fighting a Thunderdome style battle witht the milk while wielding electronic-powered maces, but that was my though process at the time.  

I remember my list being mostly minor negatives with a few major ones in-between.  There were more very minor positives... but they've been lost to time and the recesses of my memory.  Something about a cat?  No, it's been lost to me.

I'm not even sure why I'm responding to this thread, but I guess it's nice to try and vent my views before the back 'n' forth starts and someone says something I disagree with so strongly that I can no longer be objectionable.  Good luck with this thread, and I hope it fairs better that most threads of its ilk have of late.  

[LunarPhase]

gingerbill wrote...

DLC's never really intrest me as they just dont have the work put in , i would happily spend the money if they were good . The only DAO DLC i purchased was leliana's song' and though i loved her character in DAO i didnt like the DLC , it felt cheap. And i hear that was one of the better ones . Morrigan was my favourite character in DAO and i was eager for her story to continue but i never purchased 'witch hunt' as it sounded like it would be a let down.

I'd rather they just made DA3 unless they can pull off a great DLC.

I understand your point of view and where you're coming from, but perhaps you could elaborate on this? Please tell us more about what you'd like to see in a DLC/expansion? What you don't think would work? 

As for me, I feel that one of the most important elements in Dragon Age Orgins was the ability to interact with your companions. You could always have an interesting conversation. (Until they ran out of things to say)
However, this is also what made it different from other games. The combat and gameplay were in my opinion, a bit stiff. In DA II, we experience a new style of gameplay but the interaction is not the same. We cannot speak to them in the outside world.  Destiny explains this subject better than I can, so it's best if you acknowledge her ideas instead. ^

Destination Unknown wrote... 

 if companions are part of any DLCs or expansions that they be more interactive/communicative.  For example, if our protagonist clicks on a companion, it would be cool if the companion states: 'hey you just clicked on me.  I have nothing new to add."  If our PC clicks on the companion later, the companion might have something new to say.  For example, he or she might say this time:  "Yes, I'm glad you clicked on me.  I would like to talk with you if you have the time.” To me that would a very immersive and very personal experience… that would add life into the game, in my opinion.

But DLC's are fine by me if they move along a bit of the main plot. I would like for them to add new chapters in each one. That is because the last few Dragon Age DLC's felt like spin-offs of the actual story. I think there are many more possibilities to be explored. 

Modifié par LunarPhase, 21 juin 2011 - 08:13 .

[Thelzar]

LordPaul256 wrote...

I have absolutely no idea how the Anders continuity could be fixed.  It's... well, unfixable really.  Too bad, that.

Varric got it wrong. He told the story to Cassandra at least 6 years after Anders showed up if I remember correctly (and that is assuming he told the story straight after Act 3), and he remembered the year wrong.
Or he has reason to lie. Come up with a reason why Varric wants the Chantry Seekers to believe Anders came to Kirkwall 2-3 years earlier than he really did (and that should not be so hard), and I believe everything makes sense again. Anders and Varric seemed to be good friends, and they may have cooked up a plot together.

It should work if everybody else (in later games, books and so on) referes to the correct timeline, and only Varric get it wrong.

It is cheap perhaps, but that is what unreliable narrators are for. What is the point of a narrator if everything is true and in the proper order?

Modifié par Thelzar, 21 juin 2011 - 08:48 .

[Wusword77]

I want Bioware to come up with DLC that keeps the community from rehashing the arguments we heard when ME2 launched.

If Bioware can't do that I'd like to see story based DLC that looks to fill in what happened between the years between the Acts of the story. Something that focuses on the other characters in the party would be cool. Maybe even do a specific DLC for the siblings adventures after Act 1.

An epilogue would also be kind of cool, something to lead into what happened to the Warden and the Champion.

As for Improvements to the gameplay itself I don't really see any need for them. Any real issues I had were fixed in Patch 1.03 so there's nothing to really bother me.

[LunarPhase]

Aaleel wrote...

DLC won't decide the fate of the series IMHO. DA2 is always going to be DA2 for better or worse, nothing can change that now.

DA3 I think is the crossroads. They'll find out whether the gamble for short term profit was worth it, how many fans they lost, and just how many new fans they brought in.

But if they do make DLC, first and foremost it has to add new unique areas, under no circumstances can it have you running around the same areas again. It should also fill in what happened during some of those 3 year time skips to flesh the story out more.

They shouldn't try to delve into the mage/templar conflict, that should be an entirely new game.

I  agree with you on this. The game before was limited to only a few locations. But mostly I suppose that's where the devs wanted to have the story based in. The world of Dragon Age is a unique place and I believe there should be new places to discover. Traveling the world or at least even half of it  and going to different places is what also gives the player a feeling of an epic adventure taking place.

I was curious about what happened during the time leaps as well. DLC's might be able to fill in a few gaps here and there. (lol)

[Schamino]

I think I would like any DLC's. I have had so much fun an joy with these games DA:O and and DA II, especially DA:O. But also DA II was a good game to me. I have said it before, the recycled maps was a set back and the game could be a little longer but that is my point of view. I still had a lot of fun with it.

A nice DLC to me would be through the deeproads, and maybe explore some more of Thedas, meet old characters from DA:O. And if they would exclude the recycled maps and add some more fullness I would be very happy about it.

[Sad Dragon]

The problem with DLCs is their scope. They are, by nature, a cheaper product and are meant to be smaller in its scope then an expansion pack. Now that doesn't necessary make them all bad, sure they are suppose to be fast and cheap to make but you can make a lot of awesome things on a budget and DLCs are no exception.

Sadly their scope is sadly something that makes it harder for them to 'fix' the perceived problems with DA2 -- though I am still not sold on the idea that the main problems with DA2 was game mechanics related. People have split opinions about the voiced protagonist, not being able to customize the armor of the companions or the lack of a top down view. I'm sure you could make a DLC that lacked a voiced protagonist and let you customize the armor of your companions, though i think the top down view would be a bit of a stretch. Of course the problem then becomes that people who liked the voiced protagonist would be complaining and more resources would go into making every armor fit the companions not to mention getting the top down view in.

Now I personally liked the fact that the companions had their own sense of identity but there are still ways to improve on this -- not going to go into details on exactly how here because, iirc, the last time i did it ended up being a ½ page (A4) discussion. The same can be said for most aspects of the game -- though it can be said for any aspect in any game really.

So what would I, realistically, like to see in a DLC. For one I would like to be able to play a proactive protagonist rather then a solely reactive one. Make the connection between the protagonist and the companions a bigger part and add more dialog between them. I do not care if I get to play Hawke or a new protagonist either would work for me -- though I honestly think you can make more interesting stories with a new protagonist then with Hawke. Maybe more diverse combat encounters as well, rather then having the wave approach they can spice it up -- now they don't need to do away with the waves, just mix things up a big.

So unrealistically then? Well I'm glad you asked. If we bend the limits a bit I would like to see the personalities expanded upon and making them faction based rather then taking complete control over the protagonist -- thats to say a more diverse system that takes into account who you are speaking to when determining the protagonists personality. Maybe I'm always sarcastic with companion X but agressive towards companions Y and always polite with members of Z faction. Depending on how they have coded the system I cant see this as being that much work as you already have the different dialogs recorded, you just need to have input when selecting which personality the protagonist is in any given situation.

So to sum things up, I would want a Story and Dialog focused DLC rather then a Combat one -- sadly this is more expensive to produce then a DLC which is 90% combat. So I would be happy if it at least got close to 50/50.

Going to stop here as this is getting a bit long. Looking forward to see how this topic evolves.

- The Sad Dragon

[Faust1979]

I would like to see download content containing story content that takes place before act 1 when you have to do slave work.

[errant_knight]

There's nothing that Bioware can do with DA2 that will make me buy more of it, short of a complete redo with entirely different gameplay endgoals, I'm afraid. At this point, whether I continue to play Dragon Age games depends entirely on how much they return to the DA:O model for DA3.

[LunarPhase]

errant_knight wrote...

There's nothing that Bioware can do with DA2 that will make me buy more of it, short of a complete redo with entirely different gameplay endgoals, I'm afraid. At this point, whether I continue to play Dragon Age games depends entirely on how much they return to the DA:O model for DA3.

When you say DA: O models do you mean the landscapes, enemies or the PC and NPCs? The design for Dragon Age II is more updated but there are less options that allow for complete customization of your character's face. A good example of the difference in design would be Leliana. In the first game, I say she has a more natural look. 

Also, I think a lot of us would like to see the old darkspawn design return. XD

[Loc'n'lol]

In the grim darkness of the Dragon Age's future, there is only... forum flamewar ?

[Blood-Lord Thanatos]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

In the grim darkness of the Dragon Age's future, there is only... forum flamewar ?

And the Nerdrage of cursing gamers

[RangerSG]

I don't think DLCs can fix anything. They're too small, too low a production value. It's more of the same problem DA2 has in itself.

It would take an expansion pack-sized addition to fix the problems in DA2 and make it playable to the majority of fans of the series. But I'm all but certain EA is unwilling to entertain the idea of expansion packs. DLCs are their marketing strategy. Low risk, easy to make a profit. But I didn't buy Sebastian's because I'm not interested in abetting that thought process, and I'm not going to buy a future DLC unless it's one in name only.

Expansion pack, yes. Anything less, no.

[LunarPhase]

RangerSG wrote...

I don't think DLCs can fix anything. They're too small, too low a production value. It's more of the same problem DA2 has in itself.

It would take an expansion pack-sized addition to fix the problems in DA2 and make it playable to the majority of fans of the series. But I'm all but certain EA is unwilling to entertain the idea of expansion packs. DLCs are their marketing strategy. Low risk, easy to make a profit. But I didn't buy Sebastian's because I'm not interested in abetting that thought process, and I'm not going to buy a future DLC unless it's one in name only.

Expansion pack, yes. Anything less, no.

Well, the opening post did not just focus on DLC's as a possibility but expansions as well. We want to talk about what can help change the game (DA II) or add  to it. There were some good points in the game. Let's remain optimistic! 

[kazuya246]

In Exile wrote...

I think Bioware needs a redesign. It doesn't have to be radical, but essentially, I would say that a new DLC has to be a 'mini game' as a test-pilot for a different direction in DA3.

We need new and detailed environments, not just a reskin of a previous area. We need truly branching choice and outcomes. We need the ability to interact with our party beyond the 'it looks like a quest' journal entry - even ME1-ME2 have more than that, although they run out of dialogue pretty fast.

I agree with your second paragraph, but i would prefer for dragon age 3 to come out and be far above our expectations. I want the dragon age 2 expansion to look like DA2 but it should have brand new environments. No two areas should look the same. It should also have a more focused story structure.

In short i want it to be what DA2 should have been not what i am expecting from DA3. DA3 has to blow away DAO and DA2 combined.

[Iwasdrunkbro]

Bioware will continue to water down the series in the name of 'innovation' while moving farther and farther away from what made Origins successful and what fans of the series truly want. Kind of like Fable.

[Brockololly]

How to fix DA2? Honestly, I don't really know that you can "fix" DA2 via DLC. If the past DLC products are any indication, DLC just lacks the scope and budget to do anything super ambitious and manage to do it very well.

Personally, I won't be getting any of the DA2 DLC barring near universal praise from select sources I trust. I just don't want to support anything associated with DA2 at this point- I disliked the game that much.


But I am still potentially interested in Dragon Age overall as a universe and hope that maybe they can use the DLC to lay the groundwork for a better DA3. So what I might like to see out of DLC?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


- Unique environments:
A recycled environment is ok if its being acknowledged as one, not the stupid clone caves in DA2 which were technically different. And even then, if the player is returning to an old area, react to that somehow. Maybe like in Witch Hunt where you had recycled environments but you saw some little changes over time in the Mage Tower or being able to acknowledge having been to Cadash Thaig before to your companions.

But more unique environments, maybe with some unique weather? Just more variation, especially after the boredom of Kirkwall, with especially some new assets to create the environments and not the same copy/paste objects and so forth.


- Better Combat Encounter Design:
The waves are stupid. I'd much prefer fewer numbers of enemies than just a mass of cannon fodder to work through. For a horde like enemy such as the darkspawn or for a specific scenario waves are fine.

But what I want more of is having to use the environment strategically/tactically in fights. And thus a greater reliance on positioning and being able to actually position without having paratroopers materialize out of thin air.  So maybe if you're in a cave and there is a wave of enemies coming from behind, you could use your mage to cause a cave in or break some rocks free to crush the enemy.


-Don't feel cheap:
One of the bigger problems with the DAO DLC was that it all mostly felt cheap. Like it was being made on a much smaller budget than the main game. Thus you never had your old companions with you and outside of Awakening always had old environments even though the story likely led one to think those stories maybe could/should have taken place in new areas (like Leliana's Song being in Ferelden as opposed to Orlais and Witch Hunt having Morrigan come back to Ferelden instead of keeping her going west of the Frostbacks towards Orlais).

Even in the ME DLC, you often had the silent companions. Just have the DLC feel like it fits within the same production values of the main game. With Origins, I never felt like the post release content, Awakening included, felt up to the same level of polish as the base game.


-No bugs:
I know they're never desirable or intended but make sure whatever DLC you have has been tested inside and out for bugs/import problems and so forth. The whole problem with Witch Hunt's import issues was pretty terrible, yet sadly, not surprising. This goes for plot/quest scripting too- given how BioWare's trying to focus all on their "interactive narratives" as their calling card, the bugs/retcons/botched flags can be just as annoying and game breaking as a technical crash. I hope they just take their time with whatever they're doing and DON'T RUSH IT.


-Don't have terrible, disingenuous marketing:
Case in point, Witch Hunt:


Yeah...not exacty the case. Pretty sure Witch Hunt didn't answer any Morrigan questions outside of the potential gender of the Old God Baby.  I know its marketing, but don't overhype to the point of being almost an outright falsehood, please? Same thing happened with DA2- try to manage people's expectations better and maybe you wouldn't have as many disappointed people either.


-A Good story with Meaningful and Varied Choice and Consequences:
Even if its a single main quest in the DLC, give some meaningful choices AND consequences. Not the one size fits all crap in DA2, where it doesn't matter whether you madeChoice A, B or C it all boils down to the same Consequence no matter what.

And as for the story, if we're still talking DA2, have it be something interesting please? There are enough loose ends and unexplained stuff I don't think that would be hard- the Enigma of Kirkwall, the red lyrium, the idol- any of those would be potentially excellent.

And give some options as to how to approach the quest. Something beyond "HEY I'M MASS MURDERER HAWKE! TIME TO SLAUGHTER EVERYTHING THAT MOVES!!!!" You know, like maybe allowing Hawke to resolve things through dialogue or non combat skills? Its probably too  much to ask for in a DLC, but how great it would be to not only be able to level up a PC's combat skills, but maybe some non combat skills too?
-----------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------

But like I said, I'm more curious as to how DA3 should shape up. I just think there is too much wrong with DA2 at a fundamental level to necessarily fix in a bunch of DLC packs. 

But probably the one thing that could really restore a little of my faith in DA and BioWare more than any DLC could?

Update the toolset.

Modifié par Brockololly, 22 juin 2011 - 03:37 .