210 réponses à ce sujet

[PsychaDurmont]

Personally I would love to see actual consequences to your stealing.  I mean honestly.. you walk into a persons house/store talk to them, then go through their bookshelves, trunks, desks with no repercussions!  This is a major flaw.  I know you need to gain money but if you are a good character you shouldnt be doing this.

And If you are a darker character then I would love to see:  

You rob a nobles wares.
the consequence is that they report you to the city guards
the result: you have a warrent for your arrest and every time you enter that city area you have to seriously avoid the guards. Or the nobles hire an assassin and you spend a portion of your game running from this assassin or having to kill him.

This opens up some serious fun.  You can even have the potential of being caught and imprisoned which can lead to a cool escape which your companions can do if you have a good companionship rating.  If not they can come to your cell and taunt you.  This can also effect the quest lines available (similar to making a verbal dark choice during a dialogue option to a good character). 

Just brainstorming here for what I would like to see attempted in a future DA.

[LunarPhase]

PsychaDurmont wrote...

Personally I would love to see actual consequences to your stealing.  I mean honestly.. you walk into a persons house/store talk to them, then go through their bookshelves, trunks, desks with no repercussions!  This is a major flaw.  I know you need to gain money but if you are a good character you shouldnt be doing this.

And If you are a darker character then I would love to see:  

You rob a nobles wares.
the consequence is that they report you to the city guards
the result: you have a warrent for your arrest and every time you enter that city area you have to seriously avoid the guards. Or the nobles hire an assassin and you spend a portion of your game running from this assassin or having to kill him.

This opens up some serious fun.  You can even have the potential of being caught and imprisoned which can lead to a cool escape which your companions can do if you have a good companionship rating.  If not they can come to your cell and taunt you.  This can also effect the quest lines available (similar to making a verbal dark choice during a dialogue option to a good character). 

Just brainstorming here for what I would like to see attempted in a future DA.

The second paragraph you wrote sounds exciting! It would introduce some fast paced action and perhaps even give the players an unexpected plot twist. I'd look forward to a feature like this. Not only is it more realistic but it is intriguing. 

Modifié par LunarPhase, 29 juin 2011 - 01:14 .

[In Exile]

It's realistic, but it won't work unless you design an entire game around it. Asking Bioware to make reactive content after DA2 (where Mage Hawke's only explanation is Cullen is mentally incompetent) is just asking for a bad game.

[Maria Caliban]

PsychaDurmont wrote...

Personally I would love to see actual consequences to your stealing.

I'd hate this. Honestly, stealing is the only time my rogue feels like a rogue. The rest of the time, they're just Warrior Lite™ - Only 10 Calories!

[FieryDove]

Maria Caliban wrote...

PsychaDurmont wrote...

Personally I would love to see actual consequences to your stealing.

I'd hate this. Honestly, stealing is the only time my rogue feels like a rogue. The rest of the time, they're just Warrior Lite™ - Only 10 Calories!

But then things like being yelled at by the great bearded one would never have happened. No one should miss something like that!

[devSin]

It also makes it kind of worthless, at least in the sense of mechanics. Then all the player does is spend a bunch of time trying to figure out how to get away with it, all for something that takes two seconds and has zero impact on the game 99% of the time.

Maybe it feels more satisfying getting that greenstone gem if you have to spend thirty minutes before you can successfully filch it, who knows, but I don't think that even remotely means that it's good gameplay.

I'd also rather the designer spend their time on fun, not on intricately scripting every single house to have something happen if even a spoon is moved out of place (and with where BioWare is these days, I think they'd sooner remove the spoon from the game entirely than waste somebody's time scripting a reaction to its theft).

Modifié par devSin, 29 juin 2011 - 04:22 .

[Sad Dragon]

Maria Caliban wrote...

PsychaDurmont wrote...

Personally I would love to see actual consequences to your stealing.

I'd hate this. Honestly, stealing is the only time my rogue feels like a rogue.

So how about making it so that you can get away with it and making it so that Rogues are more adapt at stealing? I mean its not like you are taking away the option for a rogue to steal in either case, but you could make it into something that helps define the role of the rogue just likc pick locks currently does.

devSin wrote...

It also makes it kind of worthless, at
least in the sense of mechanics. Then all the player does is spend a
bunch of time trying to figure out how to get away with it, all for
something that takes two seconds and has zero impact on the game 99% of
the time.

Maybe it feels more satisfying getting that greenstone
gem if you have to spend thirty minutes before you can successfully
filch it, who knows, but I don't think that even remotely means that
it's good gameplay.

If you have ways that the player can get away with it that are described to the player in the tutorial then you wouldnt be standing around trying to figure out how to acomplish this. Of course the Devs would have to figure out how this would be done -- while designing this they can use this as a stepping stone to further diversify the classes from eachother. For instance the rogue might get a combat ability called "Slight of Hand" which in combat means they get bonus to hit -- while out of combat it alows them to steal things easier.

You can also get away from the trouble with the greenstone gem by simply making the loot more valuable. It now comes with consequences if you get cought after all -- so the reward could be greater.


Now I am not saying that it would necessarally be a good idea to implement a potential consequence for stealing, but I have no doubt that it can be made to work -- and most importantly, in the context of this thread, it can be implemented in an DLC or expansion.

-TSD

[LunarPhase]

Since we're moving towards ideas for gameplay in future DLC's/expansions, I'd like to add a suggestion:

---During boss fights, the boss should have a health meter displayed somewhere on the screen. This is always a very useful feature and I hope it can be implented.

So, what does everyone else think? ^^ 

[Sad Dragon]

LunarPhase wrote...

---During boss fights, the boss should have a health meter displayed somewhere on the screen. This is always a very useful feature and I hope it can be implented.

Isn't that already implemented? It might be an option though I'm not sure, but I swear that I had a health meter for the boss battles.

[philippe willaume]

Yes I would like to see consequence for stealing or rummaging lockers in camps or in house where there are people having consequences.
That would make a stealing skill worthwhile

I am not especially keen on it myself but I can see the appeal but as Maria caliban pointed out you might need a bit of a rethink on the rogue as a class.

[LunarPhase]

Sad Dragon wrote...

LunarPhase wrote...

---During boss fights, the boss should have a health meter displayed somewhere on the screen. This is always a very useful feature and I hope it can be implented.

Isn't that already implemented? It might be an option though I'm not sure, but I swear that I had a health meter for the boss battles.

I do remember the dragon boss fights in two different locations. Something was missing. I think the boss health bar is a very important addition in games. 

[PsychaDurmont]

To give a better example of what I was meaning with my earlier post... During DA:O there was a theft line where you had to try and steal stuff (From picking pockets to stealing from rooms and a final quest that I dont think was ever finished - I really wanted that fame too).  There was once during this line I had to go and lvl up my character to get her to steal better because the guards just booted me from the area my mark was on.  This was the basic idea that I liked and wanted expanded upon. 

I just wanted a more advance version of the DAO version.  Something a bit more vicious and possibly detrimental. 

This is something I could see DA2 implementing for an expansion.  It is not something that would derail the major questlines but something I think that could enhance one in progress.  And if the player so desired avoided entirely by simply not giving into temptation and just going onward with the major storyline.

[Sad Dragon]

@Psycha: Ah! You mean the Crime Wave questline! That was actually a nice addition to the game. As I normally play a 2h warrior I missed that quest line until my final play through for the DA2 import.

The questline did however have some flaws in the fact that it tried to use the games party based gameplay during the sneaking quests -- which rendered them more or less hack and slash quests anyway. You could however go in alone and through that finish the quest using your sneaking skill rather then through pure combat -- if you had a party of all rogues that would of course work as well.

This could have been improved on by simply giving partymembers other tasks during your infiltration leaving you to do the sneaking -- that way you don't need to worry about companion AI -- but at the same time having the quest play out differently depending on who you took with you. Some might create a diversion others might be able to sneak in and deactivate traps and what not.

You would also have to improve the consequences for the quest as the Crime Wave didn't add up to more then one or two lines of dialogue. Of course BioWare games are not known for handling choice and consequences beyond flavouring but they wouldn't have to go too much further for such a questline to have an affect on the story -- be it in a small part. For instance lets say you are going out to get ahold of some documents and there are three levels of success.

1. You get the documents and no one knows what happened.
2. You get the documents but the owner get suspicious as they notice something is wrong and find out that the documents are missing.
3. You get the documents but you get spotted.

Point 1 would be a complete success and you only reap the rewards.
Point 2 might mean that the owner of the documents alters their plan so while you get the reward for completing the quest you don't get all the additional benefits when the time comes to use the documents against their owner.
Point 3 might lead to a blackmailing scenario where the person that spotted you are demanding you pay them or they will tell the owner everything -- which could lead to a subquest in and of itself.


Now I have to say I like the idea of a thievery questline and I would love to see something similar for mages and warriors but I would definitely like to see something like this in the future. A good thing about this is that it's definitely something that could be put into a DLC. Hell you could even make a DLC for each class like they did with the weapons and -- ideally -- bundle them with the item pack for the class, essentially creating a class specific DLC.

Just some crazy ideas of mine, hope you all find them at least somewhat interesting -- and if not interesting that at least amusing.

-The Sad Dragon

[nubbers666]

up coming war with orlais and what happen to every one at the end of the game before they left and went there separate ways

back ground story as to how anders came to low town as a grey warden when i sent him away
and how he manage to steal sir pounce alot when he was in my inventory lol

[Cutlasskiwi]

Sad Dragon wrote...

Now I have to say I like the idea of a thievery questline and I would love to see something similar for mages and warriors but I would definitely like to see something like this in the future. A good thing about this is that it's definitely something that could be put into a DLC. Hell you could even make a DLC for each class like they did with the weapons and -- ideally -- bundle them with the item pack for the class, essentially creating a class specific DLC.

Just some crazy ideas of mine, hope you all find them at least somewhat interesting -- and if not interesting that at least amusing.

-The Sad Dragon

I'm all for class specific content and I hope we'll see it in the future and I would definitely feel more inclined to play through the game with each class.

Not a crazy idea at all. Now I find myself hoping for exactly that. Make it so BioWare!

[erynnar]

Destination Unknown wrote...

Yellow Words wrote...

Sad Dragon wrote...

Now I have to say I like the idea of a thievery questline and I would love to see something similar for mages and warriors but I would definitely like to see something like this in the future. A good thing about this is that it's definitely something that could be put into a DLC. Hell you could even make a DLC for each class like they did with the weapons and -- ideally -- bundle them with the item pack for the class, essentially creating a class specific DLC.

Just some crazy ideas of mine, hope you all find them at least somewhat interesting -- and if not interesting that at least amusing.

-The Sad Dragon

I'm all for class specific content and I hope we'll see it in the future and I would definitely feel more inclined to play through the game with each class.

Not a crazy idea at all. Now I find myself hoping for exactly that. Make it so BioWare!

^^ A very interesting and novel idea.  I am very curious to see what other players think of this.

I find that intriguing! Very!

[Sad Dragon]

Sorry to put a dampener on the idea of class specific DLCs but something just occurred to me in regards to my previous post.

There is actually one, quite big, downside to my thoughts on questbased class-specific DLCs that might even be a show stopper. The problem is that in making such an DLC you would have to involve all the different parts of the dev-team as well as the voice actors as the DLC is quest driven. Add to this that not everyone will buy a DLC then you might have a situation where class specific DLCs become financially risky to make. My thoughts here are that even those who are likely to buy a DLC might only buy the DLC for their favourit class and as such might not buy the other two DLCs.

Sure you might end up with a situation where one or two DLCs sell well enough that the third DLC can just tag along without generating any real revenue -- sadly i don't think that would be enough.

I still think class-specific DLC's could be made, just thought I would post this point of view on the subject as well.

-The Sad Dragon

[In Exile]

class specific DLCs won't just be financially risky to make - they're essentially unjustifiable financially unless you could find a way to show that including class specific DLCs would encourage people to buy the base game more. With how DA2 is set up (and how any Bioware game is set up, actually) class specific DLCs essentially require the entire production team (as you said) with less payoff.

In other words, Bioware would consciously make DLC that costs as much as all 3 class DLC but sell it to fans of only one class, instead of just making a DLC that sells to all 3 classes.

[Arken]

PsychaDurmont wrote...
You rob a nobles wares.
the consequence is that they report you to the city guards
the result: you have a warrent for your arrest and every time you enter that city area you have to seriously avoid the guards. Or the nobles hire an assassin and you spend a portion of your game running from this assassin or having to kill him.

This opens up some serious fun.  You can even have the potential of being caught and imprisoned which can lead to a cool escape which your companions can do if you have a good companionship rating.  If not they can come to your cell and taunt you.  This can also effect the quest lines available (similar to making a verbal dark choice during a dialogue option to a good character). 

Just brainstorming here for what I would like to see attempted in a future DA.

In Dragon Age: Origins if you robbed people in Denerim the guards would eventually ambush you. If you robbed the Dalish then a small group would eventually ambush you.

Origins already had something similar in it. It would be a nice touch if robbing regular NPCs would cause them to report you to the guard if they caught you. If nobles catch you then the guards would go after you, but if they didn't catch you then you would just hear the guards talking about how they are looking for thief.

I can see something like that being implemented in an expansion or DLC.

NPCs having pathfinding would be nice. Give each one a daily routine to make the town look a little less static. Though I don't see Bioware ever doing this since NPCs usually stay in one place the entire game with a couple of line of dialogue. Would be nice to see this change but I really doubt it. Not that it would be that hard to implement. Just add some script to NPCs so that they each have their own routine. Of course this would only be truly efficient if day and night cycles worked as we played rather than when a button was clicked. 

[LunarPhase]

Arken wrote...

PsychaDurmont wrote...
You rob a nobles wares.
the consequence is that they report you to the city guards
the result: you have a warrent for your arrest and every time you enter that city area you have to seriously avoid the guards. Or the nobles hire an assassin and you spend a portion of your game running from this assassin or having to kill him.

This opens up some serious fun.  You can even have the potential of being caught and imprisoned which can lead to a cool escape which your companions can do if you have a good companionship rating.  If not they can come to your cell and taunt you.  This can also effect the quest lines available (similar to making a verbal dark choice during a dialogue option to a good character). 

Just brainstorming here for what I would like to see attempted in a future DA.

In Dragon Age: Origins if you robbed people in Denerim the guards would eventually ambush you. If you robbed the Dalish then a small group would eventually ambush you.

Origins already had something similar in it. It would be a nice touch if robbing regular NPCs would cause them to report you to the guard if they caught you. If nobles catch you then the guards would go after you, but if they didn't catch you then you would just hear the guards talking about how they are looking for thief.

I can see something like that being implemented in an expansion or DLC.

NPCs having pathfinding would be nice. Give each one a daily routine to make the town look a little less static. Though I don't see Bioware ever doing this since NPCs usually stay in one place the entire game with a couple of line of dialogue. Would be nice to see this change but I really doubt it. Not that it would be that hard to implement. Just add some script to NPCs so that they each have their own routine. Of course this would only be truly efficient if day and night cycles worked as we played rather than when a button was clicked. 

This is an interesting idea; to breathe life into the NPC's and show that they have a life in the city other than just standing about. It would give a different (more immersive) feel to the game. You're right, that Bioware might not agree with it but it would be appreciated. 

Modifié par LunarPhase, 07 juillet 2011 - 05:16 .

[LunarPhase]

 When we move away from combat, we can focus on the true element of Bioware's games. That is the RPG element... and more specifically the ability to converse with your companions and NPC's found in various locations. This is where Bioware truly shines. 



However, I'd like to state something concerning the recently added dialogue wheel (DA II) and why there should be a few changes in future installments in the series:
I choose answers/questions according to the way I myself would talk in such a situation or based on certain events. So, the 3 reply/ask options and accompanying icons are not always what I'd like to choose from and don't always fit the discussion you're having. I know the wheel was probably a redesign so a list of dialogue choices wouldn't fill the screen like in DA:O. It also seems to work easily with a voiced protagonist.



Perhaps there can be another choice, for example if you want to say something honestly. (Or just normally) Except for the option to inquire further, there was no neutral response you could make. And also what if you didn't really want to lie to certain people? There was no choice; you had to. I really don't want to see anymore of that. xD



Also, since us players role-play in this game, we don't want our character to just stroll into the scene and begin chatting without us initiating the talk. This seems strange, because in all the cut scenes we will control our character. (This may be a minor issue to most, but it happened way too much to ignore)
I'll leave it at that for now.  Anyone have any similar ideas?  Of course, we're keeping this discussion polite and positive. 

Modifié par LunarPhase, 07 juillet 2011 - 06:48 .

[The_11thDoctor]

Make dlc on par with "Arrival" in ME2 and we'll have solid gold. Just make the DLC have all new areas, story, a patch to custom armor for all party members, take out pop in enemies and allow strategy, make it look amazing, add a tiny bit of banter and take my money... Arrival and Overlord and Kasumi, were the most amazing dlcs Ive seen out of any company and I would like to see that in DA2.

I hope the new DLC doesn't disappoint.

As for DA3, Make it like DA2 with the combat - pop in, - bugs everywhere, + custom armor to all of party,+ blizzard spell, make world as big as DAO with Uncharted 2 filled environments, + choices that effect the world and not just tone of conversation = my money in pockets of Bioware.