210 réponses à ce sujet

[Ariella]

Savber100 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

For future DA releases, be honest with what you're aiming at. Tell us what to expect rather than sucker punching us with stripped features like no squad customization, no isometric camera, and much more especially after promising that DA2 is similar to the DA experience we all know and love just with faster combat. 

They discussed both of those things prior to release.

Maybe sucker punched is the wrong word.. 

When DA2 was first announced, Bioware made it appear it was with Origins with some improvements. Sure the origins was taken away but many still felt that the game would be a true sequel to Origins. 

Really, I never got this impression. From the get go, I got the sense that DA2 was going to be new and different set in the same world as DAO, but different.

Then, the rumors started. No full squad customization? No isometric camera? Plenty of us hoped that it isn't true and we never learned about this until months prior to DA2's release.

This is funny because I never saw where they were anything but clear on the matter. As for no isometric camera, neither the PS3 nor the 360 version of DAO had isometric, so unless you were playing the PC version I have to wonder how Isometric is a selling point. As for "full squad customization", what the heck does that mean? Such a broad term for a single aspect: the fact companions had their own armor. Other than that you can pick your squad, you can spend points in any skill they have for their class, you can give them any weapon for their class, and accessories are so variable it's overwhelming some times.

And you complain about not finding out about this "months before DA2's release", which meant you still had time to cancel a pre order or not buy the game when it came out.

When the devs FINALLY confirmed it after the hype began, they left us with some non-sensical reasons. 

The isometric camera was stripped so that we can have differently-structured roofs? Really? 

Signature looks so that these characters will be more recognizable? Wait.. what? 

As I've said more than once on these boards, the biggest complaint about DAO both critically and from fans was that things looked too genetic. Giving the NPCs their own signature style was part of the larger art plan, and an improvement over the armors that we got in DAO.

As for isometric, they only took it out of the PC version, so again, I don't see where PS3 and 360 players should be horrified. In fact, DA2 looks so much nicer that DAO on the console and the UI, especially the character screens are much more functional. And while I'd prefer them to put the descriptions of items back in the inventory card, I otherwise find no real complaint about the new UI.

If I got these reasons wrong, it's further proof that communication was not CLEAR between the devs and the fans. 

If YOU got these wrong it's further proof? That's rather arrogant of you. I read the same stuff here you did and got the exact picture of what I ended up playing Explain that?

Honestly, It seems to me to be selective hearing on the part of some fans rather than all on Bioware's shoulders, and it's continuing. A great example of this is the whole silent vs voiced protagonist thread, when the team has said that there will be no return to a silent protagonist. Yet the thread carries on as if nothing was said, and I've seen comments in other threads to the effect of "I hope they go back to a silent protagonist because if it's voiced I won't be buying it" like Bioware never said a thing about sticking with voiced protagonist.

After that, the issue was dodged and complaints were launched, no response for Laidlaw and Co except that the tune was changed. 

Now it was more "this isn't DA:Origins 2". To me, that sudden move was a punch to the guts. It didn't help that the communication made many fans feel like DA:O was unimportant etc. 

Considering that even before the game was released people were grousing about the game, and then right after it came out certain people were calling for the heads (literally and figuratively) of the development team, I understand why. Especially when anything they said was usually taken in the worst possible light.

In fact, Brent Knowles, the former lead designer for DA, even said that

"To be honest as a fan of the first game some of the comments being said [by marketing] are marginally offensive... kind of like telling the Dragon Age 1 fans that don't have good taste for liking the first one. I'm sure that's mostly miscommunication but I can understand the frustration in some fans at how they are being spoken to."

Source: blog.brentknowles.com/2011/02/13/dragon-age-2/
So yes, better communication if you please. 

Brent has the rather fortunate position of not being in the hot seat, so it's easy to make comments. He doesn't have to back them up. Add to that the link doesn't lead to the quote you use, so it's hard to gage exactly when he said it and in what context.

[Solar1101]

I want to see mages have the ability to construct their staves and upgrade them over time as they get more powerful...not simply the staff getting better as you do. It would make for some nice quest achievements and a bit more immersion if a mage can build his or her own focus.

[Ariella]

Solar1101 wrote...

I want to see mages have the ability to construct their staves and upgrade them over time as they get more powerful...not simply the staff getting better as you do. It would make for some nice quest achievements and a bit more immersion if a mage can build his or her own focus.

Now this is a nice idea, though I'm not sure how well it would work with the lore as I understand it since I think the staves are wood or metal worked with Lyrium, which is the province of the dwarves or the Formori branch of the Circle.

[Carmen_Willow]

IMO, ME2's Lair of the Shadow Broker was the best DLC I've ever purchased. It had a great story, fantastic pacing, two great bosses who each needed a different strategy to defeat and great loot and rewards at the end. The enviornments were pretty new, or if they were old, they were dressed so that I didn't notice. Great DLC.

In the DA world, I was one who enjoyed both Leliana's Song and Witch Hunt and found the story telling in LS to be excellent and the character interaction in WH to be fine. New environments would have been great, but I didn't mind that much. One thing WH needed was a better ending. LS ended well.

Great story telling, excellent character interaction and bosses who are interesting. That's what I want.

[Nadijeh]

I'm campaigning for a Starkhaven expansion.

I love this franchise, and it would be really idiotic to throw in the towl on it even after DA3. Not everything is meant for everyone, this is a kind of dark and bitter-sweet series which I can understand why that would be a turn off for some people, also many changes were made to the game that personally I thought were great, in many ways I enjoyed actually playing DA2 more than I did playing DA1. I just wish it were a little longer and there were more places to go, and that some characters would have had more depth to them. Like Sebastian, or Varric.

Modifié par Jesira, 07 août 2011 - 09:14 .

[blothulfur]

There is only one possible future for the dragon age games that cannot be argued or ignored, they must abandon all this snide frippery and cutesy pandering and bow down to the Qun. Only then will they find their true place in the world and come to the realisation that there is no truth greater than obedience.

Thought for the day: When I was a child I thought as a child and pursued childish pleasures, what foolishness to waste so many hours when the enlightenment of the Qun waited beyond the walls of my ignorances stronghold so bright that it might illuminate all creation.

Anaan esaam Qun.

[Tirfan]

blothulfur wrote...

There is only one possible future for the dragon age games that cannot be argued or ignored, they must abandon all this snide frippery and cutesy pandering and bow down to the Qun. Only then will they find their true place in the world and come to the realisation that there is no truth greater than obedience.

Thought for the day: When I was a child I thought as a child and pursued childish pleasures, what foolishness to waste so many hours when the enlightenment of the Qun waited beyond the walls of my ignorances stronghold so bright that it might illuminate all creation.

Anaan esaam Qun.

Death to all the Bas.
You sir, are correct.

[blothulfur]

No enlightenment to all the bas, any beast may kill but we are gifted with true knowing and must therefore spread our blessings to those who keep their eyes turned from the light.

[Persephone]

casa de morte wrote...

Unfortunately, with just a chunk of my post quoted you missed the rest of it. I had said, yes I was disappointed with the direction of DA2, but what really pushed me over the edge to not even give Bioware another chance was how some of the developers treated disgruntled fans. I have no problem with fans bashing fans that is expected, but when reasonable criticism has been given and THE DEVELOPERS come out to attack the fans, I have a problem. I.

Except....they haven't done this. Even though some fans attacked them/asked for them to be fired and even threatened them.

[jennamarae]

Ariella wrote...
You're right that perception plays a role, however I find it ....extreme, for a person who says he or she is a fan of Bioware to suddenly say "to hell with it" over one game.

One game can be all it takes though. I'm a relatively recent fan of Bioware games. I'd never played any of them until DAO came out. Then I came here and read comments about other Bioware games and went and bought them too. I would never have bought those games if I hadn't liked DAO. I loved DAO enough though that I took a chance on liking the rest of what Bioware had to offer, and it turned out that I did enjoy the other games. I'd ignored ME and ME2 because I didn't think I'd like them, until I came here and discovered they were more than just the shooter games they appeared to be. Now I love them.

On the other hand, I also loved Oblivion. I liked it enough to go in search of a copy of Morrowwind. Turns out I don't like Morrowwind, died 20 times before I made it out of the starting village, and only made it halfway through the game before I finally gave up. It was awful. Had I started the series with Morrowwind, I wouldn't have touched Oblivion with a ten foot pole. Since I didn't, I'm looking forward to Skyrim. One game is all it takes to sway someone towards liking a particular developer or game series, and one game can be enough to run them off.

That's not to say some people haven't gone to the extreme with their opinions, there are quite a few people on these boards who have bent over backwards to rail against or stick up for DA2. I don't see being turned off by DA2 to the point of just giving up on the franchise as extreme. I'd imagine that the DAO DLC's and Awakening not living up to their potential had something to do with it and DA2 was just the final straw. DA2 isn't the worst game ever created, but it isn't what many people were hoping for especially after being told it wouldn't be as bad as we feared. Nothing wrong with not supporting a franchise that doesn't offer what you want in a video game.

Modifié par jennamarae, 08 août 2011 - 12:09 .

[nitefyre410]

Persephone wrote...

casa de morte wrote...

Unfortunately, with just a chunk of my post quoted you missed the rest of it. I had said, yes I was disappointed with the direction of DA2, but what really pushed me over the edge to not even give Bioware another chance was how some of the developers treated disgruntled fans. I have no problem with fans bashing fans that is expected, but when reasonable criticism has been given and THE DEVELOPERS come out to attack the fans, I have a problem. I.

Except....they haven't done this. Even though some fans attacked them/asked for them to be fired and even threatened them.

shhh... don't tell him. 

[Savber100]

Ariella wrote...

Really, I never got this impression. From the get go, I got the sense that DA2 was going to be new and different set in the same world as DAO, but different.

I honestly can't argue this point simply because everyone's expectations were different on this matter but I'll leave you with this. 

When I hear sequel, i hear better, bigger, and improved. I hear Witcher becoming the Witcher 2. I hear Half Life becoming Half Life 2. I hear Baldur's Gate become Baldur's Gate 2. I don't expect a sudden leap from X-com: Strategic Defense to the butchering of the series with the current upcoming FPS X-com. When you make a sequel, you don't leap away by creating an entirely new base; you BUILD upon the old. Look at Bioshock Infinite where the original Bioshock was build upon System Shock 2. The improvements made were done to make the original core better. It was more accessible to audiences yet still complex and amazing. Yet Irrational Games didn't base their goals on accessiblity but on simply making a bloody good game worthy of System Shock 2. 

Ariella wrote...


This is funny because I never saw where they were anything but clear on the matter. As for no isometric camera, neither the PS3 nor the 360 version of DAO had isometric, so unless you were playing the PC version I have to wonder how Isometric is a selling point. As for "full squad customization", what the heck does that mean? Such a broad term for a single aspect: the fact companions had their own armor. Other than that you can pick your squad, you can spend points in any skill they have for their class, you can give them any weapon for their class, and accessories are so variable it's overwhelming some times.

And you complain about not finding out about this "months before DA2's release", which meant you still had time to cancel a pre order or not buy the game when it came out.

The PC version had higher ratings BECAUSE of the bigger emphasis on tactical combat due to the isometric camera. DA:O was marketed as the "spiritual successor of Baldur's Gate 2" and the isometric camera was the selling point of that. On the console, the lack of the camera made the game nothing more than an pause-n-action game and the lower reviews reflected that.

What's full squad customization? The ability to choose the armor your squadmates wear or choose what weapons that they use. I can turn Morrigan into an armor-plated Arcane Warrior in DA:O. You try changing Isabela to a tank in DA2. And no, I don't need devs to tell me what's right or wrong about customizing my own party. Why strip away these customization rather than improving upon it? What's this? Signature looks because people would recognize them better? That make sense... <_<

None of us really expected just how bad the changes were until it was too late. Back then, I just couldn't comprehend how Bioware would take away the main reasons why DA:O was great and toned it down. After all, Bioware had never really let me down with their games. Guess that's what faith does to you. 

Ariella wrote...


As I've said more than once on these boards, the biggest complaint about DAO both critically and from fans was that things looked too genetic. Giving the NPCs their own signature style was part of the larger art plan, and an improvement over the armors that we got in DAO.

As for isometric, they only took it out of the PC version, so again, I don't see where PS3 and 360 players should be horrified. In fact, DA2 looks so much nicer that DAO on the console and the UI, especially the character screens are much more functional. And while I'd prefer them to put the descriptions of items back in the inventory card, I otherwise find no real complaint about the new UI.

...what does generic has to with signature style? At the very least, they didn't have to strip away fully-equippable armor for squadmates. Work on IMPROVING rather than stripping down everything that had some flaws. So they really couldn't figure out a way to make less-generic armor while allowing us to equip them on squadmates as we please?  My Warrior Hawke found tons of magic robes that he could have just given to one of his mages to wear but because of restrictions, we couldn't equip them and we had to sell them instead. 

Ability to equp and shape your companions vs. signature looks? Is this even a fair contest in a ROLE-PLAYING game? 

Ariella wrote...


If YOU got these wrong it's further proof? That's rather arrogant of you. I read the same stuff here you did and got the exact picture of what I ended up playing Explain that?

Honestly, It seems to me to be selective hearing on the part of some fans rather than all on Bioware's shoulders, and it's continuing. A great example of this is the whole silent vs voiced protagonist thread, when the team has said that there will be no return to a silent protagonist. Yet the thread carries on as if nothing was said, and I've seen comments in other threads to the effect of "I hope they go back to a silent protagonist because if it's voiced I won't be buying it" like Bioware never said a thing about sticking with voiced protagonist.

Clear communication = no/little misunderstanding

If Bioware had wanted something different, let them say so rather than doublespeaking saying that it still is Origins but different and better. If you're saying that I was the only one that misunderstood the reasons given, you're wrong as I think the simple polarization of forum and the angry outcry among the community is more than clear that Bioware was sending a double-message of what audience they wanted to appeal. 

Ariella wrote...


Considering that even before the game was released people were grousing about the game, and then right after it came out certain people were calling for the heads (literally and figuratively) of the development team, I understand why. Especially when anything they said was usually taken in the worst possible light. 

Once again, trolls are trolls. That doesn't mean the opposite side don't have legitimate complaints. 

Ariella wrote...


Brent has the rather fortunate position of not being in the hot seat, so it's easy to make comments. He doesn't have to back them up. Add to that the link doesn't lead to the quote you use, so it's hard to gage exactly when he said it and in what context.

So is NOT being on the hot seat means that Brent Knowles is more honest mainly because they're no business executive breathing on every word you say? 

Read the bottom where he's commenting on the comments. 


NOTE: We obviously stand on two opposing sides and I honestly don't think arguing this will get us anyway. I expressed my opinions and you have expressed yours. I say that we agree to disagree for now. 

Modifié par Savber100, 08 août 2011 - 12:39 .

[LunarPhase]

Jesira wrote...

I'm campaigning for a Starkhaven expansion.

I love this franchise, and it would be really idiotic to throw in the towl on it even after DA3. Not everything is meant for everyone, this is a kind of dark and bitter-sweet series which I can understand why that would be a turn off for some people, also many changes were made to the game that personally I thought were great, in many ways I enjoyed actually playing DA2 more than I did playing DA1. I just wish it were a little longer and there were more places to go, and that some characters would have had more depth to them. Like Sebastian, or Varric.

There is much mention of Starkhaven, so I would also like to see this part of the DA universe expanded upon. However, there is still Orlais which we we were interested to discover and we all got a bit Rick Roll'd with when Leliana's Song DLC was released. I would like to explore both of these countries in DA 3. 

[Ariella]

jennamarae wrote...

Ariella wrote...
You're right that perception plays a role, however I find it ....extreme, for a person who says he or she is a fan of Bioware to suddenly say "to hell with it" over one game.

One game can be all it takes though. I'm a relatively recent fan of Bioware games. I'd never played any of them until DAO came out. Then I came here and read comments about other Bioware games and went and bought them too. I would never have bought those games if I hadn't liked DAO. I loved DAO enough though that I took a chance on liking the rest of what Bioware had to offer, and it turned out that I did enjoy the other games. I'd ignored ME and ME2 because I didn't think I'd like them, until I came here and discovered they were more than just the shooter games they appeared to be. Now I love them.

On the other hand, I also loved Oblivion. I liked it enough to go in search of a copy of Morrowwind. Turns out I don't like Morrowwind, died 20 times before I made it out of the starting village, and only made it halfway through the game before I finally gave up. It was awful. Had I started the series with Morrowwind, I wouldn't have touched Oblivion with a ten foot pole. Since I didn't, I'm looking forward to Skyrim. One game is all it takes to sway someone towards liking a particular developer or game series, and one game can be enough to run them off.

That's not to say some people haven't gone to the extreme with their opinions, there are quite a few people on these boards who have bent over backwards to rail against or stick up for DA2. I don't see being turned off by DA2 to the point of just giving up on the franchise as extreme. I'd imagine that the DAO DLC's and Awakening not living up to their potential had something to do with it and DA2 was just the final straw. DA2 isn't the worst game ever created, but it isn't what many people were hoping for especially after being told it wouldn't be as bad as we feared. Nothing wrong with not supporting a franchise that doesn't offer what you want in a video game.

Nothing wrong with it, but as I said, if someone's going to set in stone they'll never buy anything from Bioware again after DA2, just strikes me as odd,especially the extremely vocal ones. Usually when I get pissed off and disappointed about a game I'll go to my husband and my friends to rant how much it sucked. I don't tend to tell the world or at least the developer in pissy language.

[Ariella]

[quote]Savber100 wrote...

[quote]Ariella wrote...

Really, I never got this impression. From the get go, I got the sense that DA2 was going to be new and different set in the same world as DAO, but different.

[/quote]

I honestly can't argue this point simply because everyone's expectations were different on this matter but I'll leave you with this. 

When I hear sequel, i hear better, bigger, and improved. I hear Witcher becoming the Witcher 2. I hear Half Life becoming Half Life 2. I hear Baldur's Gate become Baldur's Gate 2. I don't expect a sudden leap from X-com: Strategic Defense to the butchering of the series with the current upcoming FPS X-com. When you make a sequel, you don't leap away by creating an entirely new base; you BUILD upon the old. Look at Bioshock Infinite where the original Bioshock was build upon System Shock 2. The improvements made were done to make the original core better. It was more accessible to audiences yet still complex and amazing. Yet Irrational Games didn't base their goals on accessiblity but on simply making a bloody good game worthy of System Shock 2. 
[quote]

Savber, you're going to tell me that you didn't find the whole theme of BG2 different than BG? I know I certainly did, in fact I was surprised they moved BG2 down into Amn. It makes sense story wise of course, but BG2 is different in many little and big ways from BG.

[quote]Ariella wrote...


This is funny because I never saw where they were anything but clear on the matter. As for no isometric camera, neither the PS3 nor the 360 version of DAO had isometric, so unless you were playing the PC version I have to wonder how Isometric is a selling point. As for "full squad customization", what the heck does that mean? Such a broad term for a single aspect: the fact companions had their own armor. Other than that you can pick your squad, you can spend points in any skill they have for their class, you can give them any weapon for their class, and accessories are so variable it's overwhelming some times.

And you complain about not finding out about this "months before DA2's release", which meant you still had time to cancel a pre order or not buy the game when it came out.

[/quote]

[quote]
The PC version had higher ratings BECAUSE of the bigger emphasis on tactical combat due to the isometric camera. DA:O was marketed as the "spiritual successor of Baldur's Gate 2" and the isometric camera was the selling point of that. On the console, the lack of the camera made the game nothing more than an pause-n-action game and the lower reviews reflected that.
[/quote]

Actually the PC version was rated higher because the console versions weren't done by Bioware, but by Edge of Infinity and the differences are obviouse. which is why Bioware went to the Lyceum Engine, and did everything in house this time for all three platforms, and thank God for it. I'll add you you can play tactical on a console, and you don't need a God like view to do so.

[quote]
What's full squad customization? The ability to choose the armor your squadmates wear or choose what weapons that they use. I can turn Morrigan into an armor-plated Arcane Warrior in DA:O. You try changing Isabela to a tank in DA2. And no, I don't need devs to tell me what's right or wrong about customizing my own party. Why strip away these customization rather than improving upon it? What's this? Signature looks because people would recognize them better? That make sense... <_<
[/quote]

Recognize them as being Dragon Age, not just some generic fantasy world. As for turning Isabela into a tank, why would you do something that makes no sense based on her class AND the story. A pirate isn't going to go around in heavy armor, as it'd drown them aboard ship. So making Isabela a wound sink makes no sense. And the characters have their own specializations that fit their story, which in some ways make more sense than the random second (or for Sten only) specialization. Everything else is up for grabs: do you want your warrior to be DPS or Tank. Do you want your mage to buff/heal or smack down with the forces of nature. There are a lot of choices there. I don't see where signature armor is a big deal, plus the armor become part of the "show me" process of character evolution for certain NPCs.

[quote]


None of us really expected just how bad the changes were until it was too late. Back then, I just couldn't comprehend how Bioware would take away the main reasons why DA:O was great and toned it down. After all, Bioware had never really let me down with their games. Guess that's what faith does to you. 
[/quote]

I watched every scap of video I could get, so it's hard for me to see that A) the changes were bad and even if they were percieved as such how one could miss them.

[quote]

[quote]Ariella wrote...


As I've said more than once on these boards, the biggest complaint about DAO both critically and from fans was that things looked too genetic. Giving the NPCs their own signature style was part of the larger art plan, and an improvement over the armors that we got in DAO.

As for isometric, they only took it out of the PC version, so again, I don't see where PS3 and 360 players should be horrified. In fact, DA2 looks so much nicer that DAO on the console and the UI, especially the character screens are much more functional. And while I'd prefer them to put the descriptions of items back in the inventory card, I otherwise find no real complaint about the new UI.

[/quote]
[quote]
...what does generic has to with signature style? At the very least, they didn't have to strip away fully-equippable armor for squadmates. Work on IMPROVING rather than stripping down everything that had some flaws. So they really couldn't figure out a way to make less-generic armor while allowing us to equip them on squadmates as we please?  My Warrior Hawke found tons of magic robes that he could have just given to one of his mages to wear but because of restrictions, we couldn't equip them and we had to sell them instead. 
[/quote]
[/quote]
It has everything to do with it. Designing signature styled for each character and giving DA a specific look for the entire frnachise that really wasn't established in DAO.  And another part of the point for the sig armors was it signified the character. The clothing/armor the character wore fit the personality of that character rather than throwning on some generic piece. It adds to who that character is in the story, and gives them life.



[quote]
Ability to equp and shape your companions vs. signature looks? Is this even a fair contest in a ROLE-PLAYING game? 
[/quote]

In most TT RPGs I've played iin, I didn't get to define the looks of my companions. My view on the squad is they aren't "my" characters. They belong to other people, and I interact with them. I really prefer that view to the old gold box days where the whole party was mine and all there was was combat and loot.

[quote]

[quote]Ariella wrote...


If YOU got these wrong it's further proof? That's rather arrogant of you. I read the same stuff here you did and got the exact picture of what I ended up playing Explain that?

Honestly, It seems to me to be selective hearing on the part of some fans rather than all on Bioware's shoulders, and it's continuing. A great example of this is the whole silent vs voiced protagonist thread, when the team has said that there will be no return to a silent protagonist. Yet the thread carries on as if nothing was said, and I've seen comments in other threads to the effect of "I hope they go back to a silent protagonist because if it's voiced I won't be buying it" like Bioware never said a thing about sticking with voiced protagonist.

[/quote]
[quote]
Clear communication = no/little misunderstanding

If Bioware had wanted something different, let them say so rather than doublespeaking saying that it still is Origins but different and better. If you're saying that I was the only one that misunderstood the reasons given, you're wrong as I think the simple polarization of forum and the angry outcry among the community is more than clear that Bioware was sending a double-message of what audience they wanted to appeal. 

[/quote]

Here's the thing, I never heard them say that this was origins but different and better, I also never said you were the only one. However, I am pointing out that your statement of you specifically getting a mixed message and then blaming all on Bioware is proof that Bioware's not communicating enough is faulty.

I've seen a lot of people beside myself who never got that double message, so honestly I believe fault lies somewhere in the middle.


[quote]

[quote]Ariella wrote...


Considering that even before the game was released people were grousing about the game, and then right after it came out certain people were calling for the heads (literally and figuratively) of the development team, I understand why. Especially when anything they said was usually taken in the worst possible light. [/quote]

Once again, trolls are trolls. That doesn't mean the opposite side don't have legitimate complaints. 


[quote]Ariella wrote...


Brent has the rather fortunate position of not being in the hot seat, so it's easy to make comments. He doesn't have to back them up. Add to that the link doesn't lead to the quote you use, so it's hard to gage exactly when he said it and in what context.

[/quote]
[quote]

So is NOT being on the hot seat means that Brent Knowles is more honest mainly because they're no business executive breathing on every word you say? 
[/quote]

No, that Brent can say anything he wants because he doesn't have irrate fans breathing down his neck. I just find it annoying that certain fans take Brent's comments as the Word of God ™ when it comes to Dragon Age, even though he's not involved anymore. It's always easier to be on the sidelines and be a commentator than actually be the guy in the thick of things. Sad but true.

[quote]

Read the bottom where he's commenting on the comments. 
[/quote]

If I'm reading the comment, and he's talking abour Silverman, who I think most people here (even those who like DA2 is a shmuck), he's not talking about the entire dev team. In fact Knowles goes out of his way to continuously complement the DA Dev team, not bash it.

NOTE: We obviously stand on two opposing sides and I honestly don't think arguing this will get us anyway. I expressed my opinions and you have expressed yours. I say that we agree to disagree for now. 

[/quote]

[Tirfan]

Meh, yeah, can't understand saying "I will never again buy anything form BW again"
I'm personally giving ME3 a chance. Seeing the reviews first - though I'm now only warily optimistic about it - I'm going to read some spoilers first however - If TIM is ruined, I'll go batsh*t insane and will not buy the game.

With DA3... it is a question of "Is there Morrigan in it?" if there is, I'll read spoilers to see if they ruined her and if not - I'll buy it. I don't expect it to be good - the best I can hope is "somewhat playable"

[Browneye_Vamp84]

I would like to see in DA3 is that your character gets to travel to the Tevinter

Imperium... but one can wonder

[Wozearly]

Looking back at the DA:O and ME DLC that I've liked the most, its been those which have been integrated into the original playthrough - ideally where you have to complete them to pick up any impressive weapons/armour etc, rather than being randomly given it for all new characters (I never quite understood why my fresh new alienage elf was toting Blood Dragon armour, the High Regard of House Dace and the Cinch of Skillful Manoeuvering...).

I've played through Return to Ostagar, Stone Prisoner and Soldier's Peak multiple times across playthroughs, and tend to move on to Awakening after DA:O to extend that character's story. Golems doesn't get much of a look-in, because it feels cut-and-pasted as a combat heavy encounter.

Plus, its a wee bit of a grind once you know the puzzle and although the golem fight and the Harvester are challenging, they're a bit of a PITA if you don't have respec books for the companions, which you can only get from Awakenings, which means you'd have to end the Warden's story after Golems...which doesn't make much sense progression wise or story wise, unless you want to end on the note of an epic fight.

So yeah, for preference, DLC that's integrated into DA2 would be welcomed. Plus something slightly devious and unexpected like the Darkspawn Invasion from DA:O. Wrecking Denerim brought a nice, warm feeling to my blight-tainted heart. *grins*

[Kothoses Rothenkisal]

Wozearly wrote...

Looking back at the DA:O and ME DLC that I've liked the most, its been those which have been integrated into the original playthrough - ideally where you have to complete them to pick up any impressive weapons/armour etc, rather than being randomly given it for all new characters (I never quite understood why my fresh new alienage elf was toting Blood Dragon armour, the High Regard of House Dace and the Cinch of Skillful Manoeuvering...).

I've played through Return to Ostagar, Stone Prisoner and Soldier's Peak multiple times across playthroughs, and tend to move on to Awakening after DA:O to extend that character's story. Golems doesn't get much of a look-in, because it feels cut-and-pasted as a combat heavy encounter.

Plus, its a wee bit of a grind once you know the puzzle and although the golem fight and the Harvester are challenging, they're a bit of a PITA if you don't have respec books for the companions, which you can only get from Awakenings, which means you'd have to end the Warden's story after Golems...which doesn't make much sense progression wise or story wise, unless you want to end on the note of an epic fight.

So yeah, for preference, DLC that's integrated into DA2 would be welcomed. Plus something slightly devious and unexpected like the Darkspawn Invasion from DA:O. Wrecking Denerim brought a nice, warm feeling to my blight-tainted heart. *grins*

I have still yet to see a DLC that fit into an existing campaign as well as Bring Down the Sky did into Mass Effect 1.  I did not even realise I was playing DLC in my first play through now THAT is how you make good DLC.  It should not stand out or be "different" it should integrate and expand on the good that is already there.

[TEWR]

Wozearly wrote...

Looking back at the DA:O and ME DLC that I've liked the most, its been those which have been integrated into the original playthrough - ideally where you have to complete them to pick up any impressive weapons/armour etc, rather than being randomly given it for all new characters (I never quite understood why my fresh new alienage elf was toting Blood Dragon armour, the High Regard of House Dace and the Cinch of Skillful Manoeuvering...).

I've played through Return to Ostagar, Stone Prisoner and Soldier's Peak multiple times across playthroughs, and tend to move on to Awakening after DA:O to extend that character's story. Golems doesn't get much of a look-in, because it feels cut-and-pasted as a combat heavy encounter.

Plus, its a wee bit of a grind once you know the puzzle and although the golem fight and the Harvester are challenging, they're a bit of a PITA if you don't have respec books for the companions, which you can only get from Awakenings, which means you'd have to end the Warden's story after Golems...which doesn't make much sense progression wise or story wise, unless you want to end on the note of an epic fight.

So yeah, for preference, DLC that's integrated into DA2 would be welcomed. Plus something slightly devious and unexpected like the Darkspawn Invasion from DA:O. Wrecking Denerim brought a nice, warm feeling to my blight-tainted heart. *grins*

Warden's Keep could've been great if you could actually renovate the base and start recruiting people (for all the **** the Wardens received, they still got support from many people. Some even wanted to join) and make it your barracks. your companions could be in certain areas

Warden -- Warden Commander. takes over Sophia Dryden's office but explores the Keep when you want to.
Alistair -- Warden Lieutenant, moves between the barracks and the Kitchen
Dog --- Kitchen
Morrigan --- spends time reading books in the Library
Sten --- Spends time on the bridge to Avernus' Tower, as something about being there reminds him of Seheron.
Leliana --- I believe there was a shrine in the Keep.
Wynne --- Also spends time in the library.
Zevran --- Outside training new recruits?
Oghren --- Drinking in the Kitchen. Naked.
Shale --- Chasing the birds that follow her around the Keep.


I enjoyed the story for Warden's Keep, but it's what happened afterwards that ruined it for me. You "acquire" a fortress that you can't even use. That you can't even renovate. You can't even talk to Avernus to find out more about the taint.

Of course. Hell I'd rather have had Warden's Keep become the new camp. It's not like you can't already travel between Orzammar and the Circle 30 times, when that apparently takes 2 weeks and four days to do according to Dagna, so time wouldn't be much of an issue.

Or instead of making it the only camp, make it an additional camp. Keep the one for the road, and have Warden's Keep for when you want to go there.

[AloraKast]

Kothoses Rothenkisal wrote...

Wozearly wrote...

Looking back at the DA:O and ME DLC that I've liked the most, its been those which have been integrated into the original playthrough - ideally where you have to complete them to pick up any impressive weapons/armour etc, rather than being randomly given it for all new characters (I never quite understood why my fresh new alienage elf was toting Blood Dragon armour, the High Regard of House Dace and the Cinch of Skillful Manoeuvering...).

I've played through Return to Ostagar, Stone Prisoner and Soldier's Peak multiple times across playthroughs, and tend to move on to Awakening after DA:O to extend that character's story. Golems doesn't get much of a look-in, because it feels cut-and-pasted as a combat heavy encounter.

Plus, its a wee bit of a grind once you know the puzzle and although the golem fight and the Harvester are challenging, they're a bit of a PITA if you don't have respec books for the companions, which you can only get from Awakenings, which means you'd have to end the Warden's story after Golems...which doesn't make much sense progression wise or story wise, unless you want to end on the note of an epic fight.

So yeah, for preference, DLC that's integrated into DA2 would be welcomed. Plus something slightly devious and unexpected like the Darkspawn Invasion from DA:O. Wrecking Denerim brought a nice, warm feeling to my blight-tainted heart. *grins*

I have still yet to see a DLC that fit into an existing campaign as well as Bring Down the Sky did into Mass Effect 1.  I did not even realise I was playing DLC in my first play through now THAT is how you make good DLC.  It should not stand out or be "different" it should integrate and expand on the good that is already there.

Exactly so!

My most enjoyable DLC thus far has been DLC seemlessly intergrated into the main game, one that becomes part of the game, which you can enjoy each and every time you do another playthrough of the entire game.

Stone Prisoner, Warden's Keep and Return to Ostagar did that beautifully.  And while Leliana's Song had an interesting story, I have to go outside of the game to experience that. And really after I play it once, perhaps twice, it becomes just another side story, an addition rather than an actual part of the game... just like Golems and Witch Hunt and Darkspawn Chronicles.

Also, going that extra step in having all the companion voice actors come back to record additional dialogue, adding that level of quality and personal connection... that would be ideal.

So basically a combination of the earlier DA:O DLC and Legacy DLC, while focussing on telling a great, meaningful, personal story while maintaing as many hooks into the main game as possible. That's what I'm looking for from a quality DLC.

And when it comes to expansions, I am definitely prepared for a continuation of the story where the main game ended, like we saw with Awakening. Sure, introduce new characters and new places and a new adventure... but at the same time maintain strong links to the main game, so as to avoid the expansion feeling as a comletely stand alone campaign (so again, having the companion voice actors back, although with an expansion I think you can get away withough having EVERYONE back more easily than with a seemlessly intergrated DLC - again, like we saw with Awakening).

But for a DA2 DLC or expansion, I would definitely like to see a post-main game addon, just to see what happens next... failing which I would very much enjoy getting a better look into those rather large gaps between Acts. But above all, concentrate on the story as well as maintaining that strong personal connection, involvement... heck, I would even love to see even more focus on your companions alone. A companion DLC with an adventure featuring all your companions, getting into some horrid mess that requires everyone to come together and overcome, allowing you to get to know your companions even better and bond with them even more... and yes, the LI relationship being given some more attention as well.

Yes, I know, I'm silly.

[Kothoses Rothenkisal]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Wozearly wrote...

Looking back at the DA:O and ME DLC that I've liked the most, its been those which have been integrated into the original playthrough - ideally where you have to complete them to pick up any impressive weapons/armour etc, rather than being randomly given it for all new characters (I never quite understood why my fresh new alienage elf was toting Blood Dragon armour, the High Regard of House Dace and the Cinch of Skillful Manoeuvering...).

I've played through Return to Ostagar, Stone Prisoner and Soldier's Peak multiple times across playthroughs, and tend to move on to Awakening after DA:O to extend that character's story. Golems doesn't get much of a look-in, because it feels cut-and-pasted as a combat heavy encounter.

Plus, its a wee bit of a grind once you know the puzzle and although the golem fight and the Harvester are challenging, they're a bit of a PITA if you don't have respec books for the companions, which you can only get from Awakenings, which means you'd have to end the Warden's story after Golems...which doesn't make much sense progression wise or story wise, unless you want to end on the note of an epic fight.

So yeah, for preference, DLC that's integrated into DA2 would be welcomed. Plus something slightly devious and unexpected like the Darkspawn Invasion from DA:O. Wrecking Denerim brought a nice, warm feeling to my blight-tainted heart. *grins*

Warden's Keep could've been great if you could actually renovate the base and start recruiting people (for all the **** the Wardens received, they still got support from many people. Some even wanted to join) and make it your barracks. your companions could be in certain areas

Warden -- Warden Commander. takes over Sophia Dryden's office but explores the Keep when you want to.
Alistair -- Warden Lieutenant, moves between the barracks and the Kitchen
Dog --- Kitchen
Morrigan --- spends time reading books in the Library
Sten --- Spends time on the bridge to Avernus' Tower, as something about being there reminds him of Seheron.
Leliana --- I believe there was a shrine in the Keep.
Wynne --- Also spends time in the library.
Zevran --- Outside training new recruits?
Oghren --- Drinking in the Kitchen. Naked.
Shale --- Chasing the birds that follow her around the Keep.


I enjoyed the story for Warden's Keep, but it's what happened afterwards that ruined it for me. You "acquire" a fortress that you can't even use. That you can't even renovate. You can't even talk to Avernus to find out more about the taint.

Of course. Hell I'd rather have had Warden's Keep become the new camp. It's not like you can't already travel between Orzammar and the Circle 30 times, when that apparently takes 2 weeks and four days to do according to Dagna, so time wouldn't be much of an issue.

Or instead of making it the only camp, make it an additional camp. Keep the one for the road, and have Warden's Keep for when you want to go there.

Wardens keep done in something like the Fashion Cross Roads keep was in NWN 2 (one of the highlights of that game for me) would have had me playing DA O twice as much as I did.  Hell I would happily pay for a DLC that allows me to rennovate it and rebuild it.  The job with the keep in Awakening was better than Wardens keep but even that felt a little bit Shallow in comparison.  Hell even the Ebon Hawk in KotOR felt more like a strong hold than Wardens keep did.

I love that part of RPGs aswell, one of the things I am looking forward to the most in the two games I am currently playing (Divinity 2 and Two worlds 2) is the building of my stronghold/village and filling the place out. 

I remember some one was working on a mod to expand the wardens keep content, not sure if they finished or not but I will try and track it down.

[Yuqi]

 In the near future/future of the franchise I would like/hope to see:

• The remaining bugs of DA2 fixed, especially the import of Zevran, and the sunder bug.Both are incredibly annoying.
  
• Closure, REAL closure for hawke., not just 'he/she dissapeared'. Iwant to see  a conclusion to hawkes story,before being shoved with another protagonist.
  
• Customization returned, not quite to the extent of origins. Like if you get new armour for a 2h warrior,make it change according to character. Something like a blue streak pattern on fenris's armour.
  
• The return of conversation history.
  
•  One straight LI for both genders. It gives it more realisim IMO
  
• No more new protogonists,please.

 An artbook for the Signature edition!