65 réponses à ce sujet

[Medhia Nox]

@LTiberious - let's be fair though. Everything we don't like - we call a trope derisively.

There's not a single idea that can't be categorized this way.

[LTiberious]

Ok, lets go another way.


"Hero goes insane, fights with his mind, struggles to stay sane" - is a trope. We've seen it in a series of game (Hello Dead Space).

ME is more of an Action-RPG game, and not an horror (that's what mindgames are called) game.

I think you get it

[MarchWaltz]

Alice madness returns

[eternalnightmare13]

''You can't help me'' isn't realistic? Wha?  Totally diagree with that.  The kid's in shock and scared ****less after seeing giant ccthulhus stomp the **** outta the city and people he's known for his short life.  Why would he think one dude could save him.  And don't give me 'oh but it's Shepaloo'.  A scared/traumitized kid ain't gonna give a **** about that.

Bocks wrote...

I don't remember if I saw this somewhere else, but imagine if Shepard's mind starts to deteriorate as the story progresses further and further. The Reapers might be indoctrinating Shepard on a great level, and some hints as to that insanity manifesting itself might be the little kid at the start of the ME3 Escape from Earth demo. I don't know about you, but "You can't help me" isn't exactly a very believeable line for a little kid. Either the writers are abandoning realism for emotional power (which I really hope isn't the case, or if it is, I hope it manifests itself only a little) or the Reapers are playing tricks on him.

Don't be surprised if at the end of Mass Effect 3, while on Earth, you start seeing old enemies appearing all around Shepard, who kills them all, one by one.

Only to realise he just killed off his entire ground team.

[Destroy Raiden_]

I strangely like watching my characters loose their minds in some media. Siren did well with this the average people trapped in hell and slowly they all find out they'll turn Shibito eventually if the insanity doesn't kill them first, then we have Ezio hearing voices then he'll be seeing the bleedover effect within Revelations, Desmond see's people and hears things when out of the animus, so I'm not apposed to insanity I would probably have a difficult time if I was a civilian in ME3 but if I was a soldier trained as much as shep has been in 3 I would probably have a borderline type of sanity. Shep should experience stress, have issues with the beacon visions, and such but outright insanity I don't think so.

Now shep could have his eyes hacked by reapers who insert say Saren everywhere or mosterlike creatures and shep thinks he's killing them but infact is killing his squadmates. The sight hacking worked terrifically well in Ghost in the Shell sense these characters were cyborg their bodies could be hacked and then they were given illusion to think someone was attacking them but in fact it was they who attacked themselves by say shooting themselves in the arm or the hacker could rewrite what the person sees the hacker could erase their visual appearance from the victims eyes so the person sees an empty street but the hacker is still there only feet away from them. That would be horrifying having your vision messed with or loosing control of your body.

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 22 juin 2011 - 12:20 .

[Sarcastic Tasha]

If they do go down the indoctrination route it would have to be subtle. Maybe we could even find out that a few things from ME2 were the start of the indoctrination (nothing big though).
As for the kids comment "you can't help me" it just seemed to me like foreshadowing, telling us we can't save everyone.

[Warlock Adam]

It's also been done in Call of Duty Black Ops, and look how that turned out.

Did the main character have any actual personality aside from "MY NAME EES VEECTOR REZZNOFF"?

[Destroy Raiden_]

I agree the kids words are foreshadowing like Newt was in Aliens at points. I also think there are signs of indoctrination or at leasts there could be I'm starting to think Arrival was the first sign of it sense the vision didn't have a sign over the relay saying This relay goes to arrival relay please use in a single file line. That relay shep saw in the vision could've been any unknown relay and shep being made to blow up the Batarians was done so Earth would be distracted when the reapers showed up. Make the humans look one way while the reapers come in through the side door type of thing.

[sterling_archer]

Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway was another game where the player character was somewhat insane from PTSD and it was somewhat well done. You would see Halucinations of characters that had been killed occasionally see enemies that weren't actually there. The game ended with Baker (the main char) coming to terms with some of the decisions he had made and realizing that the worst was still to come.

I don't want something like this to happen in ME3 (as others have pointed out- it has been done alot) but I would like Shepard to show more emotions other than "pissed off " and/or "forgiving". We've been through two games now and the only time we've seen Shepard reflect on him/herself's actions and future are at the end of LotSB. I guess I'm saying that it would be too big of a gap between Shep completely losing his/her mind and being Black and White morality machine.

[marshalleck]

Shepard dealing with emotional/psychological fallout from his experiences does not have to be exclusively limited to hallucinations. I swear I will never understand why people on the internet become so single-mindedly fixated on one aspect of any discussion at hand.

There are many avenues the writers could take for exploring Shepard's psyche in greater detail, and they do not have to involve hallucinations, flashbacks, etc. Making Shepard more of an actual human being (even N7 rank spec ops does not preclude one from being human, and possessing human psychological and behavioral traits) would be a good thing. Fortunately despite the people claiming Shepard needs to continue to be an entirely unsympathetic meathead oaf with all the personality of a brick, Mac Walters seems to agree with the need for greater Shepard characterization according to his tweets. Whether that's good or bad remains to be seen, but I'm glad he's recognizing it at least.

Bioware made the decision a long time ago that Shepard was already at least partially defined, when they decided to use a voiced protagonist and cinematic presentation of dialogue. Now they need to own that decision and improve Shepard's presentation, which includes giving him/her more of a personality and including emotional/psychological reactions to the past and present.

Modifié par marshalleck, 22 juin 2011 - 12:59 .

[mopotter]

Skirata129 wrote...

if they tried to pull this main hero losing his mind crap it would ****** me off. Shep is too stong willed to begin having flashbacks to a difficult childhood or hallucinating in the middle of combat.

Yes.  It would also mean I had wasted 4 + years of my life, which would increase my anger.  

[sterling_archer]

marshalleck wrote...

Shepard dealing with emotional/psychological fallout from his experiences does not have to be exclusively limited to hallucinations. I swear I will never understand why people on the internet become so single-mindedly fixated on one aspect of any discussion at hand.

There are many avenues the writers could take for exploring Shepard's psyche in greater detail, and they do not have to involve hallucinations, flashbacks, etc. Making Shepard more of an actual human being (even N7 rank spec ops does not preclude one from being human, and possessing human psychological and behavioral traits) would be a good thing. Fortunately despite the people claiming Shepard needs to continue to be an entirely unsympathetic meathead oaf with all the personality of a brick, Mac Walters seems to think otherwise according to his tweets. Whether that's good or bad remains to be seen, but I'm glad he's recognizing it at least.

That's what I was kind of getting at and I agree with you. I mean whether you're a full renegade and paragon, Shepard never bats an eye at killing hundreds of people over the course of the series (hundreds of thousands in Arrival). Shepard never really seems to care when allies are killed. Shepard's love interest could be killed in the suicide mission and it never seems to bother him/her. I think the main thing that needs to be dealt with is how Shepard feels about death, killing, and decisions that get people killed. We as the player may feel bad about these things but we get nothing in return from Shep. We aren't playing a namless, faceless, mute protagonist. Let's see some humanity in our galactic savior.

[Bocks]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

''You can't help me'' isn't realistic? Wha?  Totally diagree with that.  The kid's in shock and scared ****less after seeing giant ccthulhus stomp the **** outta the city and people he's known for his short life.  Why would he think one dude could save him.  And don't give me 'oh but it's Shepaloo'.  A scared/traumitized kid ain't gonna give a **** about that.

Because hiding in the vents of a building which will ultimately be destroyed instead of going with a military man is a much better idea. Kids aren't stupid. If I were that kid, I'm absolutely sure I'd go with the man instead of waiting for a cuttlefish to stomp me into paste.

[F00lishG]

No I think the kid is real, and was placed in the game so Shepard can convey more emotion. Like people have been asking for.

[marshalleck]

Bocks wrote...

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

''You can't help me'' isn't realistic? Wha?  Totally diagree with that.  The kid's in shock and scared ****less after seeing giant ccthulhus stomp the **** outta the city and people he's known for his short life.  Why would he think one dude could save him.  And don't give me 'oh but it's Shepaloo'.  A scared/traumitized kid ain't gonna give a **** about that.

Because hiding in the vents of a building which will ultimately be destroyed instead of going with a military man is a much better idea. Kids aren't stupid. If I were that kid, I'm absolutely sure I'd go with the man instead of waiting for a cuttlefish to stomp me into paste.

Because all children think just like you, right? 

I don't know how old you are or if you have children of your own, but here's a hint: frightened children are rarely rational beings. If they were, there'd be much less pre-bedtime checking of closets and under the bed for monsters.

Modifié par marshalleck, 22 juin 2011 - 11:15 .

[Dexi]

Shepard to be Black Ops'd in ME3?


Mmmno thanks.

[Bocks]

marshalleck wrote...

Bocks wrote...

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

''You can't help me'' isn't realistic? Wha?  Totally diagree with that.  The kid's in shock and scared ****less after seeing giant ccthulhus stomp the **** outta the city and people he's known for his short life.  Why would he think one dude could save him.  And don't give me 'oh but it's Shepaloo'.  A scared/traumitized kid ain't gonna give a **** about that.

Because hiding in the vents of a building which will ultimately be destroyed instead of going with a military man is a much better idea. Kids aren't stupid. If I were that kid, I'm absolutely sure I'd go with the man instead of waiting for a cuttlefish to stomp me into paste.

Because all children think just like you, right? 

I don't know how old you are or if you have children of your own, but here's a hint: frightened children are rarely rational beings. If they were, there'd be much less pre-bedtime checking of closets and under the bed for monsters.

Are you really saying that a frightened kid would not want to go with a military man instead of hiding? A member of the army? Someone who is supposed to bring hope and protection to the people of a nation? You said it yourself: children are rarely rational beings. If one were to see a soldier, it's safe to assume that they believed there was hope.

[marshalleck]

Military men in sharp uniforms carrying big guns can be frightening as well. Granted, not as frightening as space cthulhu warships, but still. Children can very much be creatures of instinct when frightened, and that instinct tells them to get into the smallest, most quiet place they can and hide until danger passes. Whether that space is an air vent during a Reaper invasion or pulling the covers over their heads when a pile of discarded clothing in front of a night-light is casting a strange shadow on the wall, it's a powerful instinct honed by millions of years of natural selection. It doesn't strike me at all odd that the child's first reaction is to climb deeper into the vents, out of view of the Reapers outside.

Modifié par marshalleck, 22 juin 2011 - 11:27 .

[Kreid]

I will only say it once, if Shepard were to break down he/she would have long ago.
Shepard's will is too strong THAT'S why he/she is the hero/heroine.

[Undertone]

marshalleck wrote...

Shepard dealing with emotional/psychological fallout from his experiences does not have to be exclusively limited to hallucinations. I swear I will never understand why people on the internet become so single-mindedly fixated on one aspect of any discussion at hand.

There are many avenues the writers could take for exploring Shepard's psyche in greater detail, and they do not have to involve hallucinations, flashbacks, etc. Making Shepard more of an actual human being (even N7 rank spec ops does not preclude one from being human, and possessing human psychological and behavioral traits) would be a good thing. Fortunately despite the people claiming Shepard needs to continue to be an entirely unsympathetic meathead oaf with all the personality of a brick, Mac Walters seems to agree with the need for greater Shepard characterization according to his tweets. Whether that's good or bad remains to be seen, but I'm glad he's recognizing it at least.

Bioware made the decision a long time ago that Shepard was already at least partially defined, when they decided to use a voiced protagonist and cinematic presentation of dialogue. Now they need to own that decision and improve Shepard's presentation, which includes giving him/her more of a personality and including emotional/psychological reactions to the past and present.

Amen to that. The Lazarus project had a lot of potential - unfortunately Shepard never stops once to think of what he/she has become and if he/she is the same person. I find that incredibly bizzare.

[Kreid]

Undertone wrote...
Amen to that. The Lazarus project had a lot of potential - unfortunately Shepard never stops once to think of what he/she has become and if he/she is the same person. I find that incredibly bizzare.

Well, when Liara gives you the dogtags at the end of LotSB you can choose a "I'm not that person anymore" dialogue option, that sounded to me like Shepard acknowledging that he/she has changed after Lazarus, the actual dialogue didn't reflect the sentiment though. 

[Homebound]

insanity seems to be a cliche diabolus ex machina of sorts nowadays...

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

It would be great if Shepard had some reactions to all the tech which Cerberus used to ressurect him/her. Sure Miranda says Shepard doesn't have any type of tech that could alter personality, but this is Cerberus, lying is easy.

[Guitar-Hero]

I would like to see some desperation to some degree, but Shep. has a strong will, so he shouldn't go bat****/Jack Torrance crazy.

[Bocks]

Creid-X wrote...

I will only say it once, if Shepard were to break down he/she would have long ago.
Shepard's will is too strong THAT'S why he/she is the hero/heroine.

That's not the point. It's not Shepard's will that's driving him insane, it's the Reapers.

Thousands of them, all trying to break into his mind.

Hellbound555 wrote...

insanity seems to be a cliche
diabolus ex machina of sorts nowadays...

It's not a "diabolus ex machina" as you say, because the fact that Reapers can indoctrinate has been established already in the series.

Modifié par Bocks, 22 juin 2011 - 12:24 .