27 réponses à ce sujet

[Adara]

Anyone know if the Anders Rivalry ending is fixed? Can you get him to side with the templars now?

[berelinde]

Yes, if you are at 100% rival and have completed his Act 3 Questioning Beliefs. You will need to use a save from before visiting him in Darktown to learn about the Justice quest and in order to get the QB dialogue, you will need to complete the quest, all the way through to the end of the Chantry visit. If a deep-voiced entity takes over during the QB dialogue and you have met the other conditions, he will follow you if you side with the templars.

I played through it without using any console commands, so I know it's working.

[ashyraine]

I had to do what berelinde suggested and replay act 3 to fix the bug. I suggest having some tissues on hand when you get to the end if you care about Anders at all

[Raya Aroukii]

Is the rivalry romance with him fixed? Last I knew, he'd give the same speech at the Gallows to a Hawke that friendship romanced him.

[berelinde]

Raya Aroukii wrote...

Is the rivalry romance with him fixed? Last I knew, he'd give the same speech at the Gallows to a Hawke that friendship romanced him.

Two out of three posts in this thread confirm it. How many more do you need?

Conditions:
- Rivalry 100%
- Start with save from early in Act 3, before first Act 3 Darktown visit
- Complete Justice quest in its entirety (no skipping the Chantry visit)
- Urge Anders to try to undo whatever it is he's done (guy with the big boomy voice shows up)
- Spare Anders and choose the star dialogue option

Unlike what happens if you murder-knife Anders on the box of shame, going this route will enable you to complete the romance and get the trophy (if you romanced him), but his dialogue at the end is not exactly kittens and rainbows. When I played through this way, I wished that I killed him instead.

[LT123]

Raya Aroukii wrote...

Is the rivalry romance with him fixed? Last I knew, he'd give the same speech at the Gallows to a Hawke that friendship romanced him.

If you side with the mages and rival romanced him, he does give the same speech at the Gallows as when you friendship romanced him.

[FieryDove]

LT123 wrote...

If you side with the mages and rival romanced him, he does give the same speech at the Gallows as when you friendship romanced him.

I haven't had the guts to rivalmance anyone yet. Does he stay with you according to Varric?

[CulturalGeekGirl]

FieryDove wrote...

LT123 wrote...

If you side with the mages and rival romanced him, he does give the same speech at the Gallows as when you friendship romanced him.

I haven't had the guts to rivalmance anyone yet. Does he stay with you according to Varric?

He is not mentioned as staying with you in the epilogue, it is unknown whether or not this is intended.

[ashyraine]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

LT123 wrote...

If you side with the mages and rival romanced him, he does give the same speech at the Gallows as when you friendship romanced him.

I haven't had the guts to rivalmance anyone yet. Does he stay with you according to Varric?

He is not mentioned as staying with you in the epilogue, it is unknown whether or not this is intended.

If you side with templars instead of having a change of heart and siding with the mages at the end it's pretty much implied that he's going to kill himself after the battle. "I can't live past this" Between that and the goodbye kiss I cried like a little girl

[River5]

I've watched videos on YouTube of Anders' dialogue after the "big boom" where he says that Justice took over, and that Hawke must kill him to prevent other tragedies from occurring, for he has lost faith that he will ever be able to control himself (and Justice)...

But every video I have seen have Hawke asking Anders to make up for what he did by helping him and the Templars restore order.

My question is this.  What does Hawke and Anders say if you choose to execute him instead?

Does he still say:

"You have to pay for what you've done"
to which Anders replies either:
"For what it's worth, I'm glad it's you.  It was nice to be happy for a while"
or
"The sooner I die, the sooner my name will live on to inspire generations"?
(I'm probably paraphrasing a bit since I didn't go back to listen to the dialogues)

Or do they say something different?

That "the sooner I die" bit seems highly unlikely since Anders seems completely distraught over what he did.

"I need to die...  Kill me before there is nothing left of me..." followed by "my name will live on to inspire generations" just doesn't seem to match.  That would be a major WTF moment...  Not that it's never been known to happen!  Lol!  But still, that would definitly be weird.  Bipolar Anders at his finest. 

[LT123]

River5 wrote...

I've watched videos on YouTube of Anders' dialogue after the "big boom" where he says that Justice took over, and that Hawke must kill him to prevent other tragedies from occurring, for he has lost faith that he will ever be able to control himself (and Justice)...

But every video I have seen have Hawke asking Anders to make up for what he did by helping him and the Templars restore order.

My question is this.  What does Hawke and Anders say if you choose to execute him instead?

Does he still say:

"You have to pay for what you've done"
to which Anders replies either:
"For what it's worth, I'm glad it's you.  It was nice to be happy for a while"
or
"The sooner I die, the sooner my name will live on to inspire generations"?
(I'm probably paraphrasing a bit since I didn't go back to listen to the dialogues)

Or do they say something different?

That "the sooner I die" bit seems highly unlikely since Anders seems completely distraught over what he did.

"I need to die...  Kill me before there is nothing left of me..." followed by "my name will live on to inspire generations" just doesn't seem to match.  That would be a major WTF moment...  Not that it's never been known to happen!  Lol!  But still, that would definitly be weird.  Bipolar Anders at his finest. 

Rivalmance and siding with templars results in the "You hace to pay for what you've done" and "For what it's worth..." lines.

[ipgd]

River5 wrote...

I've watched videos on YouTube of Anders' dialogue after the "big boom" where he says that Justice took over, and that Hawke must kill him to prevent other tragedies from occurring, for he has lost faith that he will ever be able to control himself (and Justice)...

But every video I have seen have Hawke asking Anders to make up for what he did by helping him and the Templars restore order.

My question is this.  What does Hawke and Anders say if you choose to execute him instead?

Does he still say:

"You have to pay for what you've done"
to which Anders replies either:
"For what it's worth, I'm glad it's you.  It was nice to be happy for a while"
or
"The sooner I die, the sooner my name will live on to inspire generations"?
(I'm probably paraphrasing a bit since I didn't go back to listen to the dialogues)

Or do they say something different?

That "the sooner I die" bit seems highly unlikely since Anders seems completely distraught over what he did.

"I need to die...  Kill me before there is nothing left of me..." followed by "my name will live on to inspire generations" just doesn't seem to match.  That would be a major WTF moment...  Not that it's never been known to happen!  Lol!  But still, that would definitly be weird.  Bipolar Anders at his finest. 

Just checked for non-romance. He says: "I know. You should have done this long ago."

Modifié par ipgd, 23 juin 2011 - 05:10 .

[berelinde]

ipgd wrote...
Just checked for non-romance. He says: "I know. You should have done this long ago."

So... after all his secrecy and deception, all with the intent of giving you plausible deniability, "It won't come back to you," he says that? Way to transfer the guilt, Anders!

No, I know that he's in a wretched place and intends to absolve the PC of guilt for stabbing him in the back, not blame Hawke for not killing him before he had a chance to cause mischief, but still...

Well, it would make it easier to go through with it, so I guess that's something.

[ipgd]

berelinde wrote...

So... after all his secrecy and deception, all with the intent of giving you plausible deniability, "It won't come back to you," he says that? Way to transfer the guilt, Anders!

No, I know that he's in a wretched place and intends to absolve the PC of guilt for stabbing him in the back, not blame Hawke for not killing him before he had a chance to cause mischief, but still...

Well, it would make it easier to go through with it, so I guess that's something.

I don't really think his intent was to blame Hawke there. He is just... moping, basically.

[River5]

ipgd wrote...

River5 wrote...

I've watched videos on YouTube of Anders' dialogue after the "big boom" where he says that Justice took over, and that Hawke must kill him to prevent other tragedies from occurring, for he has lost faith that he will ever be able to control himself (and Justice)...

But every video I have seen have Hawke asking Anders to make up for what he did by helping him and the Templars restore order.

My question is this.  What does Hawke and Anders say if you choose to execute him instead?

Does he still say:

"You have to pay for what you've done"
to which Anders replies either:
"For what it's worth, I'm glad it's you.  It was nice to be happy for a while"
or
"The sooner I die, the sooner my name will live on to inspire generations"?
(I'm probably paraphrasing a bit since I didn't go back to listen to the dialogues)

Or do they say something different?

That "the sooner I die" bit seems highly unlikely since Anders seems completely distraught over what he did.

"I need to die...  Kill me before there is nothing left of me..." followed by "my name will live on to inspire generations" just doesn't seem to match.  That would be a major WTF moment...  Not that it's never been known to happen!  Lol!  But still, that would definitly be weird.  Bipolar Anders at his finest. 

Just checked for non-romance. He says: "I know. You should have done this long ago."

Thank you so much!  

So...  Let me get this straight...

If you get full rivalry with Anders, manage to brainwash him into believing that joining (and/or collaborating) with Justice is wrong, and choose to side with the Templars.

You can either:
A) execute him on the spot (after he pretty much begs you to kill him);
 have him betray everything he has ever stood for, and join in the efforts to slaughter every mage left in the city...  Only to have him commit suicide afterwards.

There really isn't a possibility for a happy conclusion for you and Anders (as romantic partners, or friends) with that scenario, is there?

I might try it some day if I feel like making a very evil play through (for example: giving Fenris back to Danarius; letting the Qunari leave with the relic, Isabela, and a nice gift basket; siding with Varnell and Petrice; etc.), but I don't know if I'm ready for that just yet...  Lol!

Even if I wanted to kill him (something I've never been able to bring myself to do so far), I'd much rather he died being at peace with what he did, and thinking that he succeeded.

[Captain_Obvious]

River5 wrote...

Even if I wanted to kill him (something I've never been able to bring myself to do so far), I'd much rather he died being at peace with what he did, and thinking that he succeeded.

I did kill him once.  Boy, I've never felt like such a jerk as I did that day.  I don't think I'll ever be able to do it again.  I think the rivalmance might make me clinically depressed.  Thank Andraste for youtube, or I'd never even see the rivalmance. 




 

[happy_daiz]

Captain_Obvious wrote...

River5 wrote...

Even if I wanted to kill him (something I've never been able to bring myself to do so far), I'd much rather he died being at peace with what he did, and thinking that he succeeded.

I did kill him once.  Boy, I've never felt like such a jerk as I did that day.  I don't think I'll ever be able to do it again.  I think the rivalmance might make me clinically depressed.  Thank Andraste for youtube, or I'd never even see the rivalmance. 



 

Agreed, although I haven't watched the videos on YouTube. I just can't bring myself to knowing more than I've read on here. To see it would just be heartbreaking... although I will say that he HAS gotten to meet my Hawke's murder knife in a few playthroughs. That just seems a little more merciful to me. (Mostly I was trying to please that taint Sebastian. Grrr.)

[River5]

happy_daiz wrote...

Captain_Obvious wrote...

River5 wrote...

Even if I wanted to kill him (something I've never been able to bring myself to do so far), I'd much rather he died being at peace with what he did, and thinking that he succeeded.

I did kill him once.  Boy, I've never felt like such a jerk as I did that day.  I don't think I'll ever be able to do it again.  I think the rivalmance might make me clinically depressed.  Thank Andraste for youtube, or I'd never even see the rivalmance. 



 

Agreed, although I haven't watched the videos on YouTube. I just can't bring myself to knowing more than I've read on here. To see it would just be heartbreaking... although I will say that he HAS gotten to meet my Hawke's murder knife in a few playthroughs. That just seems a little more merciful to me. (Mostly I was trying to please that taint Sebastian. Grrr.)

The reason why I could never bring myself to kill him is first and foremost the complete lack of compassion in the dialogue choices ( "You have to pay for what you've done")...  That, and the fact that you just stab him in the back and walk away, not bothering to offer him any kind of comfort as he dies, or even check to make sure that he's really gone (not just laying there paralysed and in pain with a knife in his back while slowly agonizing).

A man that you barely knew, Wesley, was offered a more compassionate end than someone who has either been your friend, and/or your lover for nearly a decade!

I *might* have considered the idea of killing Anders in order to free both Justice and himself, and protect him from the hardships he would have to face after what he's done.  But there's absolutely nothing merciful in the way that you are allowed to make it happen.  There's no option to say that you forgive him, that you still love him and always will...  To say that you are doing this not to make him pay, but to free him...

So really, I just can't do it.  Unless I would play an evil character, that is... 

[River5]

Captain_Obvious wrote...

River5 wrote...

Even if I wanted to kill him (something I've never been able to bring myself to do so far), I'd much rather he died being at peace with what he did, and thinking that he succeeded.

I did kill him once.  Boy, I've never felt like such a jerk as I did that day.  I don't think I'll ever be able to do it again.  I think the rivalmance might make me clinically depressed.  Thank Andraste for youtube, or I'd never even see the rivalmance. 




 

Right there with you!  It breaks my heart to see him lose faith in himself, Justice, and his cause...  And witness him and Justice always fighting for control of the same mind / body (his memory lapses), when I know that on the friendship path, they end up working together "as one" instead, and seem to adapt pretty well to their condition in the end.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Yeah, not being able to comfort him is my biggest problem. I'm actually all right with "you have to pay," because he's essentially given you that 'out' already. And in his mind, both what he has done and what you must do to him are both Justice, and right.

I have one Hawke who actually considered doing it because she was such an ardent supporter of reform. Despite the fact that she cared about Anders and actually agreed with what he did, she believed that killing him might give her more power and credibility in the ensuing fight than they would have if they were together and alive. If she killed him and then sided with the mages, she'd be seen as a paragon of fairness and justice, and thus be in a better position to fight for mage rights in the future.

But since there's no way to explain that to him in game, or at the very least stay with him while he dies... I can't actually do it, yet. I do have a save file for that, in case she turns out to be right and Anders-knifing Hawkes have a significant political advantage. But I doubt that Bioware would actually implement that; it would be too random and cruel.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 23 juin 2011 - 10:18 .

[Jessihatt]

Urgh, reading about Anders rivalmance is mean.. he kills himself and is a hollow shell of a man??
I don't want to do it now. But I must.

He doesn't stay with Hawke in the end?

[River5]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Yeah, not being able to comfort him is my biggest problem. I'm actually all right with "you have to pay," because he's essentially given you that 'out' already. And in his mind, both what he has done and what you must do to him are both Justice, and right.

I have one Hawke who actually considered doing it because she was such an ardent supporter of reform. Despite the fact that she cared about Anders and actually agreed with what he did, she believed that killing him might give her more power and credibility in the ensuing fight than they would have if they were together and alive. If she killed him and then sided with the mages, she'd be seen as a paragon of fairness and justice, and thus be in a better position to fight for mage rights in the future.

But since there's no way to explain that to him in game, or at the very least stay with him while he dies... I can't actually do it, yet. I do have a save file for that, in case she turns out to be right and Anders-knifing Hawkes have a significant political advantage. But I doubt that Bioware would actually implement that; it would be too random and cruel.

Well, "you have to pay to give what you did greater meaning" could work for me...    And you've got a point there in stating that in Anders/Justice's mind, "you have to pay for what you've done" sounds perfectly right (so it's not going to hurt him)...  But you can't even give him a last kiss, or tell him that you still love him for crying out loud!  Arrrg!

Also, I really like what you were trying to do with that play through you just described.  That's probably one of the best reasons I've ever read in favor of executing Anders for his (so-called) crimes.

There's a line in one of my favorite TV shows (BTVS's spin-off, Angel) where Angel asks Buffy "How can we be together if it costs us our lives, or the lives of others?"

So I could easily imagine one of my "Hawkes" deciding that their cause is greater than either of their lives, and being willing to sacrifice Anders in order to devote herself entirely to their fight for mages rights, and give it a greater chance of success.

[Ryzaki]

CommanderJessica wrote...

Urgh, reading about Anders rivalmance is mean.. he kills himself and is a hollow shell of a man??
I don't want to do it now. But I must.

He doesn't stay with Hawke in the end?

 

Not sure. He might kill himself...or it might be a bug. 

[River5]

CommanderJessica wrote...

Urgh, reading about Anders rivalmance is mean.. he kills himself and is a hollow shell of a man??
I don't want to do it now. But I must.

He doesn't stay with Hawke in the end?

That's the rumor!

If you choose the option:
This is the best way a.k.a. "We must show that the revolution failed.  Then the mages can work for peaceful change"
He replies
"Perhaps they will.  But I will not be part of it.  I will do my best to make up for the damage I caused, but I cannot live past this.  Vengeance will always be inside me.  I cannot risk losing myself to him again.  But if I die - now or after - perhaps it will be Justice and not Vengeance who rises from my corpse".

Then he either tells you "Goodbye, Hawke.  You've been a better friend than I ever knew."
or
"I will always love you" and kisses you one last time if you are romancing him.

And someone on this thread has confirmed that Varric won't mention him as still staying at your side in the end even though you have completed the romance (so it's assumed that he either killed himself, or got himself killed somehow if he survived the final battle, just like he said he would).

So the only way to complete the romance, and not have him die (by his hand or yours) is to side with the mages.

[UrsulaCousland]

berelinde wrote...

Yes, if you are at 100% rival and have completed his Act 3 Questioning Beliefs. You will need to use a save from before visiting him in Darktown to learn about the Justice quest and in order to get the QB dialogue, you will need to complete the quest, all the way through to the end of the Chantry visit. If a deep-voiced entity takes over during the QB dialogue and you have met the other conditions, he will follow you if you side with the templars.

I played through it without using any console commands, so I know it's working.

Do you have to romance him, or can he just be 100% Rival?