254 réponses à ce sujet

[DoNotIngest]

Chillax, everybody. This is thread of looooooove! So what if Morinth likes to mind-f*ck a few people? So what if Garrus gets frustrated sometimes and takes it out on some people? Everything's coooool.


*takes a puff*

Modifié par DoNotIngest, 22 juin 2011 - 06:51 .

[Raiil]

thatguy212 wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

Garrus has never murdered a teenaged girl to get a pleasure kick.

Garrus murders people all the time to satisfy his blood lust. He's not on Omega offering the people anything. He's just a reckless force waging war in the streets.

We've met the kind of people Garrus kills a lot of them aren't bad. They're just trying to make a life in a hard place. Then Garrus comes in and starts preaching at gun point.

He's a fool and a psychopath.

Garrus does not have bloodlust. Bloodlust is defined as a desire for extreme violence and carnage. He doesn't have a hardon to hurt people just to hurt them; he wants to hurt people who hurt others. He's a vigililante. Grunt is a better, if not perfect, example of someone with bloodlust.

And what kind of people has Garrus killed that aren't bad? He went after mercenaries on Omega. Am I forgetting something?

Isn't the whole point of his loyalty mission him trying to satisfy his bloodlust? He shoots through a pack of mercs, steps on a guy's neck, then shoots him in the knee cap, all so he can kill the man who wronged him

No, because bloodlust is indiscriminate- there is a desire for it in whatever form one can take it. As I said before, Grunt is a better example- he wants to fight, he doesn't care who he's fighting. In that particular instance, it's a revenge killing. Nothing more, nothing less. He wants vengeance for his fallen comrades, who were betrayed and slaughtered.

[jlb524]

Let's do Liara next.

*dirty mind goes places*

[Raiil]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Garrus does not, by definition, have bloodlust. There is no uncontrollable slaughter, there is no desire for indiscrimate death and carnage.

Yes there is. As someone else just said it is the premise for his loyalty mission.

No, it isn't. Revenge is. It is not an overriding theme in his life, as it is not a borderline pyschosexual desire he has- he wants his brand of justice, not just to spread the pain everywhere. Whether you think it's justice is up to the player, and I won't debate it because that's largely subjective. 

[InvaderErl]

The point is Garrus wants revenge against the man who got his squad killed and he's falling apart and losing himself in that quest. He ultimately doesn't even want to kill Sidonis but rather expunge the feelings of guilt he's suffering - and that he can get talked down sinks this notion of Garrus has some bloodthirsty maniac.

Saphra Deden wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

Except the people took to calling him Archangel which kind of torpedos the notion that Garrus didn't offer them anything.

What people? The only people calling Garrus Archangel that I met wanted to kill him. I never met any of these supposed oppressed citizens who saw him as a hero. Not a single one. The only Omega dwellers we met were all quite content to have the Blue Suns around and regretted the plague weakening them.

The fact that he was given the moniker of Archangel is outright stated. So that's that. The wife of one of the dead men also e-mails and you and tells you that her husband was doing good work and taking Omega back from the gangs. Unless you actually want to argue the game's own material here...

Saphra Deden wrote...
The point is, Garrus isn't offering anything constructive for Omega. He is fighting a war he can't ever hope to win and when we arrive we see the results of his little crusade has been. He's killed a lot of people, changed nothing on Omega, and gotten himself backed into a corner.

I agree Garrus was shortsighted and its a character flaw. He should have known that hammering the gangs was going to provoke that kind of reaction but he just saw victory after victory and didn't plan for tomorrow. He's not perfect, it doesn't make him into the lunatic you're describing.

Saphra Deden wrote...
Several of the residents in the plague zone. One batarian, erroneously blamed the Blue Suns for extoring him. They weren't though. They quarantined him to stop him from spreading the plague.

Nobody says that. We know they control the district and are stuck as well and therefore are trying to avoid being infected. We know that they collect protection money and tried to force their way into the one safe clinic in the district.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 22 juin 2011 - 06:56 .

[DoNotIngest]

jlb524 wrote...

Let's do Liara next.

*dirty mind goes places*

And play "I'm Blue" while we're at it...

[jlb524]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

No, because bloodlust is indiscriminate- there is a desire for it in whatever form one can take it. As I said before, Grunt is a better example- he wants to fight, he doesn't care who he's fighting. In that particular instance, it's a revenge killing. Nothing more, nothing less. He wants vengeance for his fallen comrades, who were betrayed and slaughtered.

Will you concede defeat now? (let me guess: no)

Defintion of "Bloodlust"

It is a simple definition and Garrus' actions clearly fall under it.

LOL, that could apply to any character in a certain context.

[AdmiralCheez]

InvaderErl wrote...

Garrus has never murdered a teenaged girl to get a pleasure kick. Garrus kills criminals, he might be extreme in that task but we've never had any instance of anything approaching the cruelty that Morinth exhibits. He doesn't murder defenseless people who had the misfortune of crossing paths with him.

True, but the difference here is that he could stop any time he wanted to.  Yes, he is capable of deep compassion for others and only acts out of a desire to help people and protect/avenge the ones he cares about the most, but remember that kid you run into on your way out of the merc recruiter's little office?  Know what happens when you don't paragon interrupt?

I am not saying Garrus is evil.  However, he is capable of doing evil things--a hero who's one bad day away from becoming a very dangerous villain.  Makes for some fascinating character development.

Morinth might be suffering from an illness but she was the one who chose to go on the run and she was the one that chose to start feeding off of people. I find her interesting but she deserves no sympathy, she's an outright sociopath.

We know she ran away from home as a kid to avoid a life of imprisonment.  We don't know when she started killing or why.  Hell, for all we know her first victim could have been someone she honestly loved and cared about, and was absolutely distraught and horrified when she killed him/her by accident, and even more horrified when she found she enjoyed it.  Maybe she clung to her "good side" as long as she could before completely devolving, but a series of dumb choices and stupid mistakes over centuries on the run slowly turned her into what she is.

[thatguy212]

I think i accidentally derailed your thread AdmiralCheez oops, so back on topic, love all the squadmembers and can't wait to see who returns as squadmembers again, also hope that any new squadmembers will be just as lovable and memorable as the past ones we've had

[DoNotIngest]

You know Saphra, thinking negative thoughts is bad for you. Raises your blood pressure. Your facial muscles clench, you get wrinkles sooner & in larger number. Your smiles look more awkward with your muscles constantly melded into a frown.

[InvaderErl]

Saphra Deden wrote...


Yeah, he's succumbing more and more to bloodlust.

Nope, he does want absolution though and he thinks the only way to do that is to kill the guy who sold out the team that came to rely on him.

Its why he finally hesitates when he realizes Sidonis is experiencing the same guilt.

Saphra Deden wrote...
The name is given. Not the context and not the meaning. The only people we see refering to Garrus as Archangel want him dead. The name could easily be a sarcastic moniker and not a heroic one. The fact is, we never see any of the people Garrus claims he is saving.

If you're just going to make up things then you might as well not bother - how can you carry on a discussion if you're just going to ignore what the game tells us.

Aria describes him as an outright do-gooder, I think she's certainly the one who would know.

Saphra Deden wrote...

Play the damn game again and gain an understanding of the topic you're arguing about before attempting to debate me.

Oh come on now, don't get all short. Chillax.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 22 juin 2011 - 07:03 .

[jlb524]

Saphra Deden wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

LOL, that could apply to any character in a certain context.

It certainly could. I take it this is your way of saying "I was wrong and you were right. Thanks for setting me straight."

You're welcome.

Yes, all the squad mates are blood thristy...no need to single one or two out

[AdmiralCheez]

thatguy212 wrote...

I think i accidentally derailed your thread AdmiralCheez oops, so back on topic, love all the squadmembers and can't wait to see who returns as squadmembers again, also hope that any new squadmembers will be just as lovable and memorable as the past ones we've had

Ha, it's okay, I participated in the derailing

@Saph: As for "Archangel," the only people we talked to about him were Aria and the mercs.  Bit of a sampling bias there.

[Clover Rider]

Yeah I just about like everyone, some took time for me to like such as Miranda and Jack and Thane but now we all are bros.

Modifié par Some Geth, 22 juin 2011 - 07:04 .

[wildannie]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

No, because bloodlust is indiscriminate- there is a desire for it in whatever form one can take it. As I said before, Grunt is a better example- he wants to fight, he doesn't care who he's fighting. In that particular instance, it's a revenge killing. Nothing more, nothing less. He wants vengeance for his fallen comrades, who were betrayed and slaughtered.

Will you concede defeat now? (let me guess: no)

Defintion of "Bloodlust"

It is a simple definition and Garrus' actions clearly fall under it.

Well according to my dictionary (OED) it means 'uncontrollable desire to kill'  - that is not Garrus.

re OP, I appreciate all the characters as being good characters but I'm not so keen on all of them...although sometimes I like them more than others.

[Raiil]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

No, because bloodlust is indiscriminate- there is a desire for it in whatever form one can take it. As I said before, Grunt is a better example- he wants to fight, he doesn't care who he's fighting. In that particular instance, it's a revenge killing. Nothing more, nothing less. He wants vengeance for his fallen comrades, who were betrayed and slaughtered.

Will you concede defeat now? (let me guess: no)

Defintion of "Bloodlust"

It is a simple definition and Garrus' actions clearly fall under it.

That's a vast oversimplification of what bloodlust actually entails. There's a much bigger ASPD angle to it. People with bloodlust revel in carnage. Garrus doesn't.

[InvaderErl]

AdmiralCheez wrote...


@Saph: As for "Archangel," the only people we talked to about him were Aria and the mercs.  Bit of a sampling bias there.

And as I said Aria describes him as an idealistic do-gooder trying to fight for the side of good - she never describes him as a lunatic getting innocent people killed.

Nobody does.

[InvaderErl]

Saphra Deden wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...[

If you're just going to make up things then you might as well not bother - how can you carry on a discussion if you're just going to ignore what the game tells us.

I'm not making anything up. Find me somebody who calls him Archangel who isn't a merc out for his head or a hostile Omega-based News Agency and I'll relent.

You won't though, because there is nobody. The only people who ever call him Archangel are people who want him dead. Garrus calls himself this once and he does it while wilting as he admits to what he's been doing on Omega. There are any number of ways to read that scene and so far it looks like sarcasm to me.

Aria.