290 réponses à ce sujet

[Shepard the Leper]

Lumikki wrote...

What basicly is sayes here, people liked Bionic because the style and because they where Bionic Gods. Now if the fun was comming from been "powerful", then it's not really hard to fix. I have nothing agaist making Bionic overpowered so it can be fun for people. How ever, Please one favor, don't come after that in this forum and say game is too easy.

ME2 already has such an option, it can be found in the difficulty settings menu

People who like to feel all powerful (in order to have fun playing ME) should not play on Insanity. That level is meant for those who want to have fun without being all powerful.

ME is a single player game; difficulty levels are there for a reason. It's in fact the problem everyone who's moaning about biotics has - making Pull or Throw work through defenses is pointless at the default (Normal) setting because (almost) all enemies don't have protection.

The ME2 Adept is way too easy below Hardcore; I don't think that making Adepts equally easy (read boring imo) on the HARDEST difficulty levels would be a good thing.

Modifié par Shepard the Leper, 23 juin 2011 - 11:40 .

[l DryIce l]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

What basicly is sayes here, people liked Bionic because the style and because they where Bionic Gods. Now if the fun was comming from been "powerful", then it's not really hard to fix. I have nothing agaist making Bionic overpowered so it can be fun for people. How ever, Please one favor, don't come after that in this forum and say game is too easy.

ME2 already has such an option, it can be found in the difficulty settings menu

People who like to feel all powerful (in order to have fun playing ME) should not play on Insanity. That level is meant for those who want to have fun without being all powerful.

ME is a single player game; difficulty levels are there for a reason. It's in fact the problem everyone who's moaning about biotics has - making Pull or Throw work through defenses is pointless at the default (Normal) setting because (almost) all enemies don't have protection.

The ME2 Adept is way too easy below Hardcore; I don't think that making Adepts equally easy (read boring imo) on the HARDEST difficulty levels would be a good thing.

Many people on both sides of this argument are making the false assumption that it has to be either-or. I'd like to think that Bioware can make a game where biotics work through some protections, while still retaining the difficulty of the game. In other words, it doesn't have to be: take ME1's style or take ME2's style. I think the best option is to have a mixture of both. 

I already gave my suggestion earlier in the thread, so I'm not going to repeat myself here. 

[AnthonyDraft]

This discussion really reminds me of Dawn of War 2 discussions i.e the gameplay isn't fluffy enough Just throwing this out there.
As for my thoughts about this matter. Difficulty choices are there for a reason people. Don't play Hardcore or Insanity if you want all powerful biotic.

[TuringPoint]

I greatly enjoyed playing Sentinel and Infiltrator. I do think the rock-paper-scissors gameplay needs refining or gutting and replacement.

Ever since my second run through I played ME1 on Insanity, and never changed the difficulty after that unless I was doing a speed run. It actually takes about 500 shots (exaggeration, more than I'm willing to count) with the pistol on marksman to kill a guy with immunity on insanity at the higher levels. Headshots didn't matter, in case anyone forgot that's a new feature in ME2, and that added a small tactical element, really more of a shooter skill element when it comes down to it.

I think biotics should affect anything, when it comes to throwing stuff and people around. Just maybe not take away their shields so much? I hope they just give biotics what they need to be an intimidating foe, as much as their techie counterparts.

Modifié par Alocormin, 23 juin 2011 - 12:26 .

[l DryIce l]

AnthonyDraft wrote...

This discussion really reminds me of Dawn of War 2 discussions i.e the gameplay isn't fluffy enough Just throwing this out there.
As for my thoughts about this matter. Difficulty choices are there for a reason people. Don't play Hardcore or Insanity if you want all powerful biotic.

That's not the issue. I don't want an "all-powerful" ME1 biotic on Hardcore/Insanity. I want biotics to work (not to their full effect) through some protections (armor/shields). This can be done without making Adepts biotic gods on any difficulty. I want to be challenged, but not have to resort to singularity --> warp everytime I see an armored enemy. 

[Shepard the Leper]

l DryIce l wrote...

Many people on both sides of this argument are making the false assumption that it has to be either-or. I'd like to think that Bioware can make a game where biotics work through some protections, while still retaining the difficulty of the game. In other words, it doesn't have to be: take ME1's style or take ME2's style. I think the best option is to have a mixture of both. 

I'm afraid that's not possible. When all biotic powers negate protection it ruins gameplay in general and the Adept in particular.

Adepts already have Singularity which works through defenses; Stasis should have been part of the Adept's power layout from the beginning; Warp covers two out of three defenses. Only Pull, Throw and Shockwave are not very effective against protected enemies, but (except Shockwave) they're on a very fast cooldown so they become very useful the moment enemies lose their protection (well balanced).

I also don't understand why defenses are somehow *glorified*, all classes suffer once enemies start using protection: Ammo Powers are useless when enemies have defenses; Cryo Blast, Neural Shock and AI Hacking have the exact same issue as biotics yet there's hardly any complaining about Soldiers, Infiltrators, Vanguards, Sentinels and Engineers on Insanity, why? Are people only capable to play classes who don't use powers but buffs that have no effect on the enemy? Should every class get a ARush button to get all-in-one bullet time, easy aiming, super speed, massive damage boost and damage reduction? Or one power that beats all enemies regardless their status/condition?

Insanity Adepts demand the player to think before he or she acts, which is one thing I like about the class, but maybe that's too much for some other players (who somehow refuse to play on a level better suited to their abilities). It's also funny that a lot of the Adept haters also consider themselves rpg elitists, the same folk that complains about the *simplification, dumbing down, streamlining* of rpg games. Now they have a class that requires more thought than simply spamming one power to destroy everything and they want to simplify to entire system .... 

Modifié par Shepard the Leper, 23 juin 2011 - 12:15 .

[TuringPoint]

I'm pretty sure it is quite possible to compromise on biotics.  Part of the attraction of biotics is getting to throw people around. 

A simple compromise would be to make it possible to charge up a biotic attack.  That would certainly fit what we've seen in cutscenes.  

Having to spam your abilities doesn't solve ME1's problem of having to spam your freaking abilities.  ME2's mechanics do work in favor of alternating with tech and combat attacks as well as biotics, but Bioware hasn't solved anything yet.  In fact, perhaps there is no "compromise" needed; but the issue is more complicated than either/or.

Modifié par Alocormin, 23 juin 2011 - 12:24 .

[LemurFromTheId]

l DryIce l wrote...

That's not the issue. I don't want an "all-powerful" ME1 biotic on Hardcore/Insanity. I want biotics to work (not to their full effect) through some protections (armor/shields). This can be done without making Adepts biotic gods on any difficulty. I want to be challenged, but not have to resort to singularity --> warp everytime I see an armored enemy.

We've discussed this before. Other classes have no more options than adepts do for dealing with armor.

If biotics worked through protections any more than they do right now, adept would be insanely overpowered, it's as simple as that. You'd be able to keep one YMIR stundlocked with throws, while the other YMIR is relaxing in your singularity, while the third YMIR is in stasis, while the fourth YMIR is in Liara's stasis, while Samara is floating the fifht YMIR towards the bottomless pit.

I don't think there are that many YMIRs in the game, in fact.

[l DryIce l]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

Many people on both sides of this argument are making the false assumption that it has to be either-or. I'd like to think that Bioware can make a game where biotics work through some protections, while still retaining the difficulty of the game. In other words, it doesn't have to be: take ME1's style or take ME2's style. I think the best option is to have a mixture of both. 

I'm afraid that's not possible. When all biotic powers negate protection it ruins gameplay in general and the Adept in particular.

How do you it's not possible? Biotic powers don't have to "negate" protection as it did in ME1. Protection can severely reduce the effectiveness of biotic powers, instead of (pretty much) negating biotic powers as it did in ME2.

Say my pull has a duration of 5 seconds, but a cooldown of 6. An armored Krogan and his cronies just appeared and I use pull on the Krogan. Let's also say armor reduced pulls duration by half and the Krogan is only lifted for 2.5 seconds. This means the Krogan is up and his cronies are still shooting at me for ~3 seconds before I can use another power. Not completely gimped; not completely useless. It would really only be useful if the Krogan's charging you. 

And there you go. More options than just having to trap him in a singularity and warp bomb him. 

Adepts already have Singularity which works through defenses; Stasis should have been part of the Adept's power layout from the beginning; Warp covers two out of three defenses. Only Pull, Throw and Shockwave are not very effective against protected enemies, but (except Shockwave) they're on a very fast cooldown so they become very useful the moment enemies lose their protection (well balanced).

Singularity's main purpose isn't to get rid of defenses. I'm not even concerned with any biotic power except warp working against defenses. An Adept is supposed to be CC. But...yeah, singularity is fine the way it is. 

I also don't understand why defenses are somehow *glorified*, all classes suffer once enemies start using protection: Ammo Powers are useless when enemies have defenses; Cryo Blast, Neural Shock and AI Hacking have the exact same issue as biotics yet there's hardly any complaining about Soldiers, Infiltrators, Vanguards, Sentinels and Engineers on Insanity, why? Are people only capable to play classes who don't use powers but buffs that have no effect on the enemy? Should every class get a ARush button to get all-in-one bullet time, easy aiming, super speed, massive damage boost and damage reduction? Or one power that beats all enemies regardless their status/condition?

Ammo powers are used primarily to strip defenses. Not sure where you got the idea that they are "useless" against defenses. AI Hacking gives the controlled enemy shields, so it's balanced. And it would be nice if Cryo Blast/Neural Shock...or any CC ability for that matter had SOME uesful effect on SOME protected enemies. 
 

[TuringPoint]

Aedolon wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

That's not the issue. I don't want an "all-powerful" ME1 biotic on Hardcore/Insanity. I want biotics to work (not to their full effect) through some protections (armor/shields). This can be done without making Adepts biotic gods on any difficulty. I want to be challenged, but not have to resort to singularity --> warp everytime I see an armored enemy.

We've discussed this before. Other classes have no more options than adepts do for dealing with armor.

If biotics worked through protections any more than they do right now, adept would be insanely overpowered, it's as simple as that. You'd be able to keep one YMIR stundlocked with throws, while the other YMIR is relaxing in your singularity, while the third YMIR is in stasis, while the fourth YMIR is in Liara's stasis, while Samara is floating the fifht YMIR towards the bottomless pit.

I don't think there are that many YMIRs in the game, in fact.

Consider this, and don't take this as harrassment please:  Bioware has set up a simple game mechanic for different abilities to beat different types of protection.  If you think of everything on those terms, then sure, nothing could be improved.  

This isn't necessarily as fun as it could be, though.   

In general the rock-paper-scissors protection stuff is a matter of finding the right moment to get your head out of cover and trying to keep your allies alive enough to be any help to you.  Other than that it's point and shoot.  This is actually not a bad system in many ways, but it tends to weaken biotic and tech abilities, and give your guns and ability to find cover - which is somewhat over plentiful, maybe - a bigger role.

Ideally, a biotic user could assist a tech user could assist a run-and-gunner.  Many times the way Bioware increases difficulty level is by making enemies have tons more hitpoints.  It just so happens this means tons more armor, shield, biotic field hitpoints, as well.

Modifié par Alocormin, 23 juin 2011 - 12:39 .

[Lumikki]

l DryIce l wrote...

Many people on both sides of this argument are making the false assumption that it has to be either-or. I'd like to think that Bioware can make a game where biotics work through some protections, while still retaining the difficulty of the game. In other words, it doesn't have to be: take ME1's style or take ME2's style. I think the best option is to have a mixture of both. 

I already gave my suggestion earlier in the thread, so I'm not going to repeat myself here. 

I actually don't think that's the real issue here or solution.

I think some Bionic players in ME2 have same issue that they have with termal clips in ME2.

ME1 type of combat reminds me basic RPG combat, where it's more about using you most powerfull attacks to get enemy down. It's very agressive offensive gameplay, but also very simple. You can't really do it wrong, because it's just push the button and target enemy.

TPS combat dynamic how ever is different, it's not just about push the button, but also using right powers and weapons in right way and time. Meaning like bionic combat has now layers, it requires more effort. This means while it's still simple, it's not as simple than ME1 combat was. You need to pay attention in combat more and think more as what powers you use. Same happen in weapon based combat in ME2 too, you need to pay more attention what weapons to use and when. So, basicly this isn't about just Bionic powers, but hole difference as how combat dynamic works.

In my opinion, some people have hard time to get into TPS type of combat from RPG type of combat. If they want to get into, they have to do little bit effort for it as learn it. Same way that anyone has to do more effort to learn RPG features.

Modifié par Lumikki, 23 juin 2011 - 12:48 .

[l DryIce l]

Aedolon wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

That's not the issue. I don't want an "all-powerful" ME1 biotic on Hardcore/Insanity. I want biotics to work (not to their full effect) through some protections (armor/shields). This can be done without making Adepts biotic gods on any difficulty. I want to be challenged, but not have to resort to singularity --> warp everytime I see an armored enemy.

We've discussed this before. Other classes have no more options than adepts do for dealing with armor.

Yes, and I remember saying that I did not find that a good thing. 

If biotics worked through protections any more than they do right now, adept would be insanely overpowered, it's as simple as that. You'd be able to keep one YMIR stundlocked with throws, while the other YMIR is relaxing in your singularity, while the third YMIR is in stasis, while the fourth YMIR is in Liara's stasis, while Samara is floating the fifht YMIR towards the bottomless pit.

Because if we let biotics work through some protections, then all biotics must work on powerful enemies like the YMIR. <_<

It is possible to compromise without letting biotics be overpowered crazy death machines as they were in ME1. 

I don't think there are that many YMIRs in the game, in fact.

[l DryIce l]

Lumikki wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

Many people on both sides of this argument are making the false assumption that it has to be either-or. I'd like to think that Bioware can make a game where biotics work through some protections, while still retaining the difficulty of the game. In other words, it doesn't have to be: take ME1's style or take ME2's style. I think the best option is to have a mixture of both. 

I already gave my suggestion earlier in the thread, so I'm not going to repeat myself here. 

I actually don't think that's the real issue here or solution.

I think some Bionic players in ME2 have same issue that they have with termal clips in ME2.

ME1 type of combat reminds me basic RPG combat, where it's more about using you most powerfull attacks to get enemy down. It's very agressive offensive gameplay, but also very simple. You can't really do it wrong, because it's just push the button and target enemy.

TPS combat dynamic how ever is different, it's not just about push the button, but also using write powers and weapons in right way and time. Meaning like bionic combat has now layers, it requires more effort. This means while it's still simple, it's not as simple than ME1 combat was. You need to pay attention in combat more and think more as what powers you use. Same happen in weapon based combat in ME2 too, you need to pay more attention what weapons to use and when. So, basicly this isn't about just Bionic powers, but hole difference as how combat dynamic works.

In my opinion, some people have hard time to get into TPS type of combat from RPG type of combat. If they want to get into, they have to do little bit effort for it as learn it. Same way that anyone has to do more effort to learn RPG features.

I'm not suggesting (and never suggested) that we should resort to ME1's biotic combat. Having biotic powers actually work, but work less effectively, would give the player more options (and more situations to compliment those options) than we have currently. I fail to see how that MUST result in making biotics overpowered demi-gods. How does reduced biotic effectiveness not work, and why is it a worse alternative to negating biotic powers? It's not like I think pull with a 3 second cooldown time should be able to be spammed against an armored Geth Colossus. 

[TuringPoint]

Lumikki wrote...


TPS combat dynamic how ever is different, it's not just about push the button, but also using write powers and weapons in right way and time. Meaning like bionic combat has now layers, it requires more effort. This means while it's still simple, it's not as simple than ME1 combat was. You need to pay attention in combat more and think more as what powers you use. Same happen in weapon based combat in ME2 too, you need to pay more attention what weapons to use and when. So, basicly this isn't about just Bionic powers, but hole difference as how combat dynamic works.

In my opinion, some people have hard time to get into TPS type of combat from RPG type of combat. If they want to get into, they have to do little bit effort for it as learn it. Same way that anyone has to do more effort to learn RPG features.

What you're saying has merit.  It's just that how ME2 handled things forced you to take cover more, but you still basically get to use the same powers over and over again, and doing that isn't as satisfying in some ways.

I think ME2 could be improved.  Maybe not to have middle ground in ME3 with ME1, although it seems like it would be nice to bring back some fans of ME1.  Can't please everyone though.  Lots would love for ME1 to come back in all its painful, ability spamming glory.

[LemurFromTheId]

l DryIce l wrote...

How do you it's not possible? Biotic powers don't have to "negate" protection as it did in ME1. Protection can severely reduce the effectiveness of biotic powers, instead of (pretty much) negating biotic powers as it did in ME2.

Say my pull has a duration of 5 seconds, but a cooldown of 6. An armored Krogan and his cronies just appeared and I use pull on the Krogan. Let's also say armor reduced pulls duration by half and the Krogan is only lifted for 2.5 seconds. This means the Krogan is up and his cronies are still shooting at me for ~3 seconds before I can use another power. Not completely gimped; not completely useless. It would really only be useful if the Krogan's charging you.

And there you go. More options than just having to trap him in a singularity and warp bomb him.

With cooldown upgrades, throw and pull have a cooldown of 1.8 seconds. A krogan can't get up nearly that fast.

I've said this many times before:

Aedolon wrote...

Simply weakening biotics' power and duration would just make the game easy - because you could still juggle everything - and boring - because of comboing would be more difficult. It'd be the good old lift 'em and finish 'em days all over again.

l DryIce l wrote...

Singularity's main purpose isn't to get rid of defenses. I'm not even concerned with any biotic power except warp working against defenses. An Adept is supposed to be CC. But...yeah, singularity is fine the way it is.

You do realize that singularity actually does CC through defenses?
EDIT: Ignore the previous sentence, I misunderstood your point.

l DryIce l wrote...

Ammo powers are used primarily to strip defenses. Not sure where you got the idea that they are "useless" against defenses.

The reason why you use them primarily to strip defenses is precicely because the CC is useless against defenses. The best ammo powers in the game are the ones with crowd control: incendiary ammo, disruptor ammo, cryo ammo. Interestingly (though off-topic), these are precicely what soldier has, and none of the bonus ammo powers have CC capability.

Not entirely useless against defenses, though, because of the damage boost.

l DryIce l wrote...

AI Hacking gives the controlled enemy shields, so it's balanced. And it would be nice if Cryo Blast/Neural Shock...or any CC ability for that matter had SOME uesful effect on SOME protected enemies.

They're useful enough already. I use cryo blast all the time with my Insanity engineer.

Modifié par Aedolon, 23 juin 2011 - 12:58 .

[Lumikki]

Alocormin wrote...


What you're saying has merit.  It's just that how ME2 handled things forced you to take cover more, but you still basically get to use the same powers over and over again, and doing that isn't as satisfying in some ways.

Actually I agree with you.

This happens when your character have lower defence and force player from offensive gameplay to more defensive gameplay. In Bionic power case this can cause passive gameplay, because you can repeat same powers over and over from same cover positions forever. This same problem doesn't exist in weapon combat in ME2, because the termal clips prevented players ability use same weapons forever.

This is hard situation, because while Bionics needs more active gameplay, how to improve it without destroying weapon side allready active combat.

You can't really increase defence because it would destroy weapon based combat and idea why we go cover at all. So, there is two option left. Increase offence and lower the range of power. This would force player out of cover more often and make combat more active. But I'm pretty sure players don't like the other thing, even if it means more fun Bionic combat.

Modifié par Lumikki, 23 juin 2011 - 01:25 .

[l DryIce l]

Aedolon wrote...
With cooldown upgrades, throw and pull have a cooldown of 1.8 seconds. A krogan can't get up nearly that fast.

Why must people insist on cooldowns staying the same in ME3? What if they change the cooldown to 6 seconds? You pull a Krogan, and because he has armor, he's only in the air for 2 seconds (or some duration that won't let you spam a biotic power). This would make biotics such as pull and throw somewhat useful for situations where a protected enemy is charging you, but you don't want the larger cooldown time of singularity. 

Cooldown times and durations can change. 

[LemurFromTheId]

Alocormin wrote...

Consider this, and don't take this as harrassment please:

Don't worry, I love a good argument and never take things too seriously.

Alocormin wrote...

Bioware has set up a simple game mechanic for different abilities to beat different types of protection. If you think of everything on those terms, then sure, nothing could be improved.

This isn't necessarily as fun as it could be, though.

Things can always be improved, and I have full confidence in Bioware's ability to make things even better. Gameplay-wise ME2 is a big improvement over ME1. I don't see why they couldn't to it again. I just haven't seen many great ideas concerning adept coming from these forums, mainly because most of the ideas are coming from people, who - in my humble opinion - just don't seem to have a very in-depth understanding of the class.

Alocormin wrote...

In general the rock-paper-scissors protection stuff is a matter of finding the right moment to get your head out of cover and trying to keep your allies alive enough to be any help to you. Other than that it's point and shoot. This is actually not a bad system in many ways, but it tends to weaken biotic and tech abilities, and give your guns and ability to find cover - which is somewhat over plentiful, maybe - a bigger role.

It may be just that we talk about the same things with different words, but I'm sensing a difference in how we approach the class (and biotics in general).

You see, for me it's never about finding the right moment. It's always about creating the right moment.

I do think that cover has a bit too much role in this game, though.

Alocormin wrote...

Ideally, a biotic user could assist a tech user could assist a run-and-gunner. Many times the way Bioware increases difficulty level is by making enemies have tons more hitpoints. It just so happens this means tons more armor, shield, biotic field hitpoints, as well.

I think that combat, tech and biotic specialist have a lot of synergy in the game.

Optimally, higher difficulty level increases difficulty evenly in all aspects. Enemies are tougher, more skilled, more aggressive, more numerous. But it also means more advanced tactics are required from the player. Extra layers of protection achieve this quite well.

[Shepard the Leper]

l DryIce l wrote...

Say my pull has a duration of 5 seconds, but a cooldown of 6. An armored Krogan and his cronies just appeared and I use pull on the Krogan. Let's also say armor reduced pulls duration by half and the Krogan is only lifted for 2.5 seconds. This means the Krogan is up and his cronies are still shooting at me for ~3 seconds before I can use another power. Not completely gimped; not completely useless. It would really only be useful if the Krogan's charging you. 

And there you go. More options than just having to trap him in a singularity and warp bomb him. 

Not really, it would make Adept weaker instead:

1. Why would I use a power on a 6 second cooldown if I already have one doing the same thing (better) on a 4.5 seconds cooldown (Singularity)?
2. I don't thing a power which duration is shorter than its cooldown is good CC.
3. It's useless on the default settings (there are very few enemies with defenses).
4. Enemy defenses go down much faster than their health because powers and weapon receive massive multipliers when used against defenses (there are none against health). Defenses are also always the first to go down which means enemies will be around with only their health left much longer than with protection.
5. Which results in Pull being a far less effective power because the current (3 seconds) version can be used twice in the same amount of time (=twice the amount of CC + the current version of Pull has better duration).
6. Increasing cooldowns will only result in Adepts becoming more dependant on weapons instead of powers

It's easy to review powers seperately and tweak them so they can do the stuff you want them to do. It's much harder to fit that power back into the complex power-balance puzzle. There have been many attemps by posters to 'improve' powers, I've yet to read about one that actually makes sense and is viable. I'm afraid your proposal will do more damage than actually improving anything.

Singularity's main purpose isn't to get rid of defenses. I'm not even concerned with any biotic power except warp working against defenses. An Adept is supposed to be CC. But...yeah, singularity is fine the way it is. 

Singularities main purpose is to trap/hold enemies with protection. When you're playing below Hardcore you're a fool when you're using Singularity against enemies without protecion. Pull is a much better option. Only when you're up against elites and bosses, Singularity shows its strength.

Ammo powers are used primarily to strip defenses. Not sure where you got the idea that they are "useless" against defenses. AI Hacking gives the controlled enemy shields, so it's balanced. And it would be nice if Cryo Blast/Neural Shock...or any CC ability for that matter had SOME uesful effect on SOME protected enemies.

Ammo powers offer close to nothing when it comes to damage (versus defenses), only their CC effects are worthwhile and only work when defenses are out of the way. Only when you're able to save a shot (so you strip defenses in X-1 shots with ammo equiped compared to X shots without) it's useful which is hardly ever the case regardless weapons being used. When you're using Assault rifles - for example - researching the Piercing Upgrade will improve damage against all defenses a lot more than whatever (maxed) ammo power out there does.

[LemurFromTheId]

l DryIce l wrote...

Why must people insist on cooldowns staying the same in ME3? What if they change the cooldown to 6 seconds? You pull a Krogan, and because he has armor, he's only in the air for 2 seconds (or some duration that won't let you spam a biotic power). This would make biotics such as pull and throw somewhat useful for situations where a protected enemy is charging you, but you don't want the larger cooldown time of singularity.

Cooldown times and durations can change.

Again, you just removed biotic combos from the game. Welcome back, ME1!

[LemurFromTheId]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

It's easy to review powers seperately and tweak them so they can do the stuff you want them to do. It's much harder to fit that power back into the complex power-balance puzzle. There have been many attemps by posters to 'improve' powers, I've yet to read about one that actually makes sense and is viable. I'm afraid your proposal will do more damage than actually improving anything.

I see I found a soulmate. This is exactly as I feel.

[l DryIce l]

Aedolon wrote...

l DryIce l wrote...

Why must people insist on cooldowns staying the same in ME3? What if they change the cooldown to 6 seconds? You pull a Krogan, and because he has armor, he's only in the air for 2 seconds (or some duration that won't let you spam a biotic power). This would make biotics such as pull and throw somewhat useful for situations where a protected enemy is charging you, but you don't want the larger cooldown time of singularity.

Cooldown times and durations can change.

Again, you just removed biotic combos from the game. Welcome back, ME1!

Yep. You can't change cooldown times and duration, keep biotic combos, without tweaking the cooldown system. Giving players more options in combat while retaining difficulty isn't an easy thing to do. Now I'd rather keep ME2's system than going back to ME1's, but I don't think it's impossible to actually think about a fully capable compromise. 

[The Spamming Troll]

Aedolon wrote...

Aurellia wrote...

I do take issue with the kind of cheap way they took to increasing difficulty for adepts. By putting shields/armor on most enemies it made the game harder by nerfing a fun aspect of the game rather than doing other things that would add tactical depth. There is not a lot of depth to stripping shields and armor. Just do damage with a weapon, warp, overload or combos like warp detonation.

Adding to tactical depth is precisely what extra protection layers do. Simply weakening biotics' power and duration would just make the game easy - because you could still juggle everything - and boring - because of comboing would be more difficult. It'd be the good old lift 'em and finish 'em days all over again.

The reason people are crying is not because biotics are nerfed, but because the players themselves can't handle the added layer of tactical gameplay required of them. You are right, there is not much depth to stripping defenses - that's easy. Most of the extra armors are actually very thin. So why are people having so much difficulty? Because things that are simple in theory aren't always easy in practise. You do need to choose the right mook at the right moment. You need to pick your positions more carefully and plan ahead. You can't just spam your powers anymore.

This has been seen many times in this thread already. How many have complained that "there are few opportunities to use biotics"? To me, this reveals an absolutely passive, non-tactical approach to the game. There are opportunities everywhere, but you need to look for them and you really, really need to create them yourself. Biotics are proactive, not reactive.

how does eliminating the majority of the players abilities ADD something? being forced to use my gun more is considered adding moretactics? id have thought its the other way around. insanitys extra protections means NOTHING to any other class. its just more health but a different color. adepts on the other hand see any other color then red, and its goodby adept.

reducing duration and cooldowns wouldnt allow me to still throw everyone i want. do you want throw on a 1.5 second cooldown that staggers enemies, or throw on a 30 second cooldown that puts enemies on their ass? id take the latter, because im not investing in an ability thatll stagger someone for half a second.

it infuriates me to no end that you think "we" cant play an adept. your not better the anyone else at using biotics just because you dont have a problem with the adept.

the adept shouldnt have to do thing other classes dont have to do. simple as that.

[MELTOR13]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

the adept shouldnt have to do thing other classes dont have to do. simple as that.

So Engineers (Cryo Blast, AI Hacking), Sentinels (Throw, Cryo Blast), Vanguards (Pull, Shockwave), Infiltrators (AI Hacking), and Soldiers (Concussive Shot) don't have to strip protections to use some of their powers? 

Wow, that's enlightening. I guess I need to go back to ME2 and play through that again, figure out how these other classes are circumventing the protection system....learn something new every day. <_<

[Lumikki]

I do agree.

That if adepts want to rely on bionic powers, it should be valid options. Even if it's little odd that "Soldier" as what all classes are in end, doesn't use weapons at all. How ever, that should not mean we should force adept to use weapons if they don't want to. After all they are the full Bionic class.