290 réponses à ce sujet

[The Spamming Troll]

MELTOR13 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

the adept shouldnt have to do thing other classes dont have to do. simple as that.

So Engineers (Cryo Blast, AI Hacking), Sentinels (Throw, Cryo Blast), Vanguards (Pull, Shockwave), Infiltrators (AI Hacking), and Soldiers (Concussive Shot) don't have to strip protections to use some of their powers? 

Wow, that's enlightening. I guess I need to go back to ME2 and play through that again, figure out how these other classes are circumventing the protection system....learn something new every day. <_<

your really not this dense are you?

do you really need me to point out that engineers also have abilities that remove those protections. they also have an ability in drone that trumps the adepts CC in singularity. sentinels have warp and sabo, i shouldnt have to explain why theres no problem with the sentinel on insanity. vanguards dont need to remove protections in order to charge and infiltrators dont remove protections to cloak. soldiers could care less if the health bar is yellow, red or blue. if i want to play an adept on insanity, i spam singularity, or i have to use my gun, my squadmates, my bogus bonus power, whatever in order to use my biotics. i dont see tacticall advantages to adding enemy protections, i see road blocks.

protections mean more to an adept then any other class. the color is right in front of your eyes. the difference between me and you is that youve accepted the adepts need for needing more things to beat insanity, then other classes, while i think its total BS for the adept. even starting with sidearms is weaksauce. if anything caster classes should get more weapons playing insanity.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 23 juin 2011 - 05:32 .

[Shepard the Leper]

Lumikki wrote...

I do agree.

That if adepts want to rely on bionic powers, it should be valid options. Even if it's little odd that "Soldier" as what all classes are in end, doesn't use weapons at all. How ever, that should not mean we should force adept to use weapons if they don't want to. After all they are the full Bionic class.

Adepts are elite soldiers who can use biotic powers to boost their combat performance. Soldiers are elite soldiers with access to combat powers instead. There is no difference between classes except the powers they can use (to make them more effective soldiers). The very soul of Mass Effect gameplay is about combining shooter and rpg elements; playing the Adept without using weapons is exactly like playing a Soldier without using powers.

[Shepard the Leper]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

how does eliminating the majority of the players abilities ADD something? being forced to use my gun more is considered adding moretactics? id have thought its the other way around. insanitys extra protections means NOTHING to any other class. its just more health but a different color. adepts on the other hand see any other color then red, and its goodby adept.

You have a rather poor understanding of what tactics really are. Protection puts limits on certain powers, but also strengthens others. The master tacticians are blessed with something the French call coup d'oeil, the ability to discern at one glance the tactical (dis)advantages of the battlefield.

Adepts need tactics to kick ass on Insanity, they don't have powers that are always the most effective option, like other classes have, but rely on using weapons, teammates and all their powers at exactly the right time. To play Adept on Insanity without pausing requires a little coup d'oeil too. Those brutal Youtube Adept videos are about shooter and tactical skills. You'll need a good sense of the things going on around you, thinking one step ahead, anticipating before enemies can become really dangerous, using weapons and powers combined, deploy and command your teammates etc etc.

Whenever I play Adept on Insanity, I don't feel I'm just Shepard. I feel like I'm Commander Shepard, a master of weapons, biotics and tactics. It's the most fun I had with Mass Effect 2.

[MajorStranger]

As an Infiltrator, I must protest and say no to powerful biotic power.

[Aurellia]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

You have a rather poor understanding of what tactics really are. Protection puts limits on certain powers, but also strengthens others. The master tacticians are blessed with something the French call coup d'oeil, the ability to discern at one glance the tactical (dis)advantages of the battlefield.

Adepts need tactics to kick ass on Insanity, they don't have powers that are always the most effective option, like other classes have, but rely on using weapons, teammates and all their powers at exactly the right time. To play Adept on Insanity without pausing requires a little coup d'oeil too. Those brutal Youtube Adept videos are about shooter and tactical skills. You'll need a good sense of the things going on around you, thinking one step ahead, anticipating before enemies can become really dangerous, using weapons and powers combined, deploy and command your teammates etc etc.

Whenever I play Adept on Insanity, I don't feel I'm just Shepard. I feel like I'm Commander Shepard, a master of weapons, biotics and tactics. It's the most fun I had with Mass Effect 2.

But this is the fallacy.  I have beaten the game multiple times on insanity with different classes.  I've beaten every game I play on the hardest mode.  While I'm not an ME god like Bog or others I am pretty good at figuring out tactics.

I m happy to need tactics, but i want the tactics to be fun and rewarding, not boring and limiting.  Infamous and Halo are good examples of the former.  ME2 is a good example of the later.

Playing rock scissors with warp, overlord, and guns is not fun or rewarding for someone who wants to play adept.  I've done this and I've beaten the game on insanity.  Vanguard is much more fun.  I miss having fun with an Adept.  Why? because they used a cheap way to increase difficulty.

I think people who read my earlier suggestion about using shield/armor/barrier % to affect failure chance/effect reduction/reflection chance may have not understood what I was getting at.

If shields are 100% then there is a 100% chance the biotic will fail.  If it is 50% then it works half the time.  Similar for armor and barrier.  Biotic reflect on barrier would be pretty dangerous.

The second half of my suggestion was to localize these things so it wasn't on all enemies maybe half or a third but give them AOE effects so the guys coming in with a Legionare get the immunity and even worse is that unless you attack the guy with the generator then his shield stays up.  Your only option is shooting until you take out or at least damage the guy's shield.  With the % stuff this would give you the option to take the shield down to half and have a 50% chance per mob of affecting them.  Make these shields regenerate.

If done right and powers rebalanced this should be just as "hard" as the current scheme but create richer tactics.  For example as an inflitrator I might shoot the shield guy down to 50% shield and charge him knocking him and the 3 others with him apart like billiard balls and then I can biotic his minions freely.

While you are at it get rid of fast health regen and give me back a health bar so my mistakes earlier own wear me down for later.  In halo I had those experiences where my health bar was a sliver and I had to survive on my shield.  Some of those fights were insane and fun.

I want hard that is not boring.



 

Modifié par Aurellia, 23 juin 2011 - 06:20 .

[dreman9999]

Kakistos_ wrote...

Thank the Biotic God for this thread. I have issue with the "Biotic" powers Reave and Dominate. Lore-wise these should not be possible. Like other Biotics in ME2, they were just toys to play with and shouldn't show up in ME3 if Biotics are to be taken seriously. Also, my ideal Adept in ME3 should be able to unlock ALL Biotic Powers, with the sacrifice to weapon and armor points/upgrades and not just one extra power at a time via research.

The problem is with this complain is that we don't know the full limits of Biotic power. Everything in ME1 about Biotic power is base on what Humans know and the knowlwge of one Asari that still consedered a child to her people. It's pretty clear with the Benesia fight in ME1, that they are untapped limit with biotic. Lore wise, just the basics have been stated in ME1. Don't take it as an apsolute.

[dreman9999]

The main problem with Adepts is in particular to the classes learning curve and nostalgia factor for old players. The ME1 lover want the new system to be like in some way like the old system and they simply don't want to understand the new system. The problem being that it we allow even the tiniest bit of Shield/protection bypass without penalty will brake the game...Period...
Though I agree the new system is harder to deal with and if trying to learn it hampers the fun of the game, it should be changed. But not taken out.
The biotic protection must stay, but give biotics ways to destroy protection. I feel instead of giving them a power to do so, we just need to make biotics stronger, so strong it brakes protection on contact.....But with a COST....
They can give players the ability to charge Adepts power.
Lore wise and game play wise, it's been stated that their are ways to charge and increase biotic powers in battle.
In Samara's recruit mission we saw it with read sand. In the LftSB dlc,
we saw this with Tal Visir as she charged herself up to do a heavy
biotic charge And it's been described many times in the books.
I propose that Adepts get a power to do the same thing. It would be
it's own power with a fast cooldown time at the same speed as a ammo powers that lets you charge biotic energy to put in any power.

You can charge up and use it with warp ammo for more damage, or with
a number of power to use to over power shields.And it would be a lasting power like barrier but with a much shortor lasting time. It can be update as the power evolve and
your passives improve.
To balance it, the power would have the same defect that the red sand in Samara's recruit
mission, the more energy you have the more it can effect your health. The more
power you charge up the more your health drains over time. Full charges
can take off any protection on enemies but leave you unprotected and
low on health. It can also add more effects on powers like a fully
charge adept can cast a singularity at the same level as a singularity
gun.Effect like that that also drastically increases cooldown times and
slows down health recovery .

Their would be 3 levels of this type of biotic boosting. Level 1 effect you
Shields only, but it only strengthens powers enough to take off all but
the last 4th of shields, more depending on the power. Level 2 takes of lower enemies
Shields, or armour depending on the power you use and effect some of
your health . Level 3 does the strongest damage to enemies and effect the majority of your health.

In short, You can charge you powers to a degree that it can destroy protection with sheer force at one blow but at a cost of your Health. So the more powerful biotics you use, the less heath you have, meaning the higher likeliness you can die. This would balance this new power.

[Shepard the Leper]

Aurellia wrote...

But this is the fallacy.  I have beaten the game multiple times on insanity with different classes.  I've beaten every game I play on the hardest mode.  While I'm not an ME god like Bog or others I am pretty good at figuring out tactics.

I m happy to need tactics, but i want the tactics to be fun and rewarding, not boring and limiting.  Infamous and Halo are good examples of the former.  ME2 is a good example of the later.

Playing rock scissors with warp, overlord, and guns is not fun or rewarding for someone who wants to play adept.  I've done this and I've beaten the game on insanity.  Vanguard is much more fun.  I miss having fun with an Adept.  Why? because they used a cheap way to increase difficulty.

It's easy to understand the simple Mass Effect 2 combat system, but it's difficult to become a true master. This Bozorgmehr guy can do stuff with his Adept I wouldn't believe possible until I watched him do it in his videos, which means I haven't mastered the Adept like he has because I can only do those things on Veteran difficulty.

What's fun is personal preference, if you think Vanguards are more fun to play then more power to you. I loved playing Vanguard for a while, but got tired of using Charge over and over again. Its style is about close combat, nothing really tactical, but killing enemies with a shotgun is pretty cool too. Mass Effect offers plenty of ways to play six classes on different difficulty settings. I like the Adept playstyle on Insanity, not because it's the fastest way to kill, but because it makes me feel happy when a plan comes together.

The option to use whatever power whenever you want is totally not tactical by the way, which doesn't mean it cannot be fun to play in such a way.

I think people who read my earlier suggestion about using shield/armor/barrier % to affect failure chance/effect reduction/reflection chance may have not understood what I was getting at.

If shields are 100% then there is a 100% chance the biotic will fail.  If it is 50% then it works half the time.  Similar for armor and barrier.  Biotic reflect on barrier would be pretty dangerous.

The second half of my suggestion was to localize these things so it wasn't on all enemies maybe half or a third but give them AOE effects so the guys coming in with a Legionare get the immunity and even worse is that unless you attack the guy with the generator then his shield stays up.  Your only option is shooting until you take out or at least damage the guy's shield.  With the % stuff this would give you the option to take the shield down to half and have a 50% chance per mob of affecting them.  Make these shields regenerate.

If done right and powers rebalanced this should be just as "hard" as the current scheme but create richer tactics.  For example as an inflitrator I might shoot the shield guy down to 50% shield and charge him knocking him and the 3 others with him apart like billiard balls and then I can biotic his minions freely.

I'm not sure I like your idea. There are few enemies with shields and they are all elites and bosses. When you can use Pull and Throw on them, with a reasonable chance of successfully pulling and knocking them down, with their current cooldown, makes playing the Adept easier than it already is on the default difficulty level.

I also don't like the concept of chance. When I use a power I like to know what to expect of it. Having to wait behind cover to see if your attack is successful or not, is not going to improve overall gameplay IMHO.

While you are at it get rid of fast health regen and give me back a health bar so my mistakes earlier own wear me down for later.  In halo I had those experiences where my health bar was a sliver and I had to survive on my shield.  Some of those fights were insane and fun.

I want hard that is not boring.

I had lots of those moments with the ME2 Vanguard and also with my Adept using Barrier to get out of trouble.

Yeah, I would also love play football the way Messi does. But I never will, because regardless how talented I am (not :-) it requires many long, hard and boring training sessions to get there. You cannot have something challenging and easy. Something easy isn't hard nor challenging. It however is hard and challenging (and possibly boring) to make something hard look easy. That's the true excellence!

[MELTOR13]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

MELTOR13 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

the adept shouldnt have to do thing other classes dont have to do. simple as that.

So Engineers (Cryo Blast, AI Hacking), Sentinels (Throw, Cryo Blast), Vanguards (Pull, Shockwave), Infiltrators (AI Hacking), and Soldiers (Concussive Shot) don't have to strip protections to use some of their powers? 

Wow, that's enlightening. I guess I need to go back to ME2 and play through that again, figure out how these other classes are circumventing the protection system....learn something new every day. <_<

your really not this dense are you?

Engineers can only remove Shields and Armor, Drone only affects a single enemy at a time while Singularity can lock up multiple enemies at a time.

Sentinels are the only real class that can easily deal with all protections without teammates, but that's what their class is meant for. 

Vanguards don't need to get rid of protections to Charge, no...but unless they are OK with only using one power all game, they have to strip protections at some point. Infiltrators and Soldiers fall into the "i just shoot everything category" so no, they don't really worry about protection stripping, but they do have powers that don't work unless protections are stripped. 

You made a statement, I provided a counter point, and then you follow up with insults and information that we both already know. Adepts are not the only class to deal with protections, so don't make it out to be. You also fail to recgonize that you have squadmates for a reason. They are very good at stripping protections so an Adept can then make short work of enemies. Please don't provide your biased opinions as fact. 

[The Spamming Troll]

dreman9999 wrote...

The main problem with Adepts is in particular to the classes learning curve and nostalgia factor for old players. The ME1 lover want the new system to be like in some way like the old system and they simply don't want to understand the new system. The problem being that it we allow even the tiniest bit of Shield/protection bypass without penalty will brake the game...Period...
Though I agree the new system is harder to deal with and if trying to learn it hampers the fun of the game, it should be changed. But not taken out.
The biotic protection must stay, but give biotics ways to destroy protection. I feel instead of giving them a power to do so, we just need to make biotics stronger, so strong it brakes protection on contact.....But with a COST....
They can give players the ability to charge Adepts power.
Lore wise and game play wise, it's been stated that their are ways to charge and increase biotic powers in battle.
In Samara's recruit mission we saw it with read sand. In the LftSB dlc,
we saw this with Tal Visir as she charged herself up to do a heavy
biotic charge And it's been described many times in the books.
I propose that Adepts get a power to do the same thing. It would be
it's own power with a fast cooldown time at the same speed as a ammo powers that lets you charge biotic energy to put in any power.

You can charge up and use it with warp ammo for more damage, or with
a number of power to use to over power shields.And it would be a lasting power like barrier but with a much shortor lasting time. It can be update as the power evolve and
your passives improve.
To balance it, the power would have the same defect that the red sand in Samara's recruit
mission, the more energy you have the more it can effect your health. The more
power you charge up the more your health drains over time. Full charges
can take off any protection on enemies but leave you unprotected and
low on health. It can also add more effects on powers like a fully
charge adept can cast a singularity at the same level as a singularity
gun.Effect like that that also drastically increases cooldown times and
slows down health recovery .

Their would be 3 levels of this type of biotic boosting. Level 1 effect you
Shields only, but it only strengthens powers enough to take off all but
the last 4th of shields, more depending on the power. Level 2 takes of lower enemies
Shields, or armour depending on the power you use and effect some of
your health . Level 3 does the strongest damage to enemies and effect the majority of your health.

In short, You can charge you powers to a degree that it can destroy protection with sheer force at one blow but at a cost of your Health. So the more powerful biotics you use, the less heath you have, meaning the higher likeliness you can die. This would balance this new power.

the complaints arent about ME2 being to hard or someone not having the mental fortitude to create tactics in a game as easy as ME2. im not even sure ME2 requires much tactics at all, except for classes that cant use their abilites, like adepts.

i like the charge up idea, but i hope the reason ability evolutions are implemented is so i can use throw on a protected enemy. if im investing a large portion of my points into an ability, id appreciate more then a half second stagger.

[The Spamming Troll]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Aurellia wrote...

But this is the fallacy.  I have beaten the game multiple times on insanity with different classes.  I've beaten every game I play on the hardest mode.  While I'm not an ME god like Bog or others I am pretty good at figuring out tactics.

I m happy to need tactics, but i want the tactics to be fun and rewarding, not boring and limiting.  Infamous and Halo are good examples of the former.  ME2 is a good example of the later.

Playing rock scissors with warp, overlord, and guns is not fun or rewarding for someone who wants to play adept.  I've done this and I've beaten the game on insanity.  Vanguard is much more fun.  I miss having fun with an Adept.  Why? because they used a cheap way to increase difficulty.

It's easy to understand the simple Mass Effect 2 combat system, but it's difficult to become a true master. This Bozorgmehr guy can do stuff with his Adept I wouldn't believe possible until I watched him do it in his videos, which means I haven't mastered the Adept like he has because I can only do those things on Veteran difficulty.

bozs vids are extremely deceiving. thats not one adept your looking at there. your seeing an adept with the revenant, claymore, multiple bonus powers and liara as a squadmate. ofcorse the adept is gonig to seem awesome, when your playing that kind of adept.

i also wanted to say, Pft.

[The Spamming Troll]

MELTOR13 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

MELTOR13 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

the adept shouldnt have to do thing other classes dont have to do. simple as that.

So Engineers (Cryo Blast, AI Hacking), Sentinels (Throw, Cryo Blast), Vanguards (Pull, Shockwave), Infiltrators (AI Hacking), and Soldiers (Concussive Shot) don't have to strip protections to use some of their powers? 

Wow, that's enlightening. I guess I need to go back to ME2 and play through that again, figure out how these other classes are circumventing the protection system....learn something new every day. <_<

your really not this dense are you?

Engineers can only remove Shields and Armor, Drone only affects a single enemy at a time while Singularity can lock up multiple enemies at a time.

Sentinels are the only real class that can easily deal with all protections without teammates, but that's what their class is meant for. 

Vanguards don't need to get rid of protections to Charge, no...but unless they are OK with only using one power all game, they have to strip protections at some point. Infiltrators and Soldiers fall into the "i just shoot everything category" so no, they don't really worry about protection stripping, but they do have powers that don't work unless protections are stripped. 

You made a statement, I provided a counter point, and then you follow up with insults and information that we both already know. Adepts are not the only class to deal with protections, so don't make it out to be. You also fail to recgonize that you have squadmates for a reason. They are very good at stripping protections so an Adept can then make short work of enemies. Please don't provide your biased opinions as fact. 

drone is singularity with an infinite radius, legs, heat seeking, draws attention from every enemy on screen, its also on half the cooldown of singularity. singularity in ME2 is almost no better then bastion stasis from ME1. its slightly better because sometimes it holds more then one person, although sometimes i did that with stasis in ME1 too. although you cant use drone to setup warpbombs, oh my, oh my.

there are vanguard players who arent ok with charging all game? the vangaurd doesnt need pull or shockwave, because it has charge.

yes, every class deals with protections, but not every class is as obviously hurt by them as much as adepts are. any excuse you give me about an adept not sucking on insanity is only because you bring up things unrelated to being an adept. in terms of adding enemy protections, what OTHER class needs squadmates to play as that class?

[MELTOR13]

I can't argue with someone who blantantly post lies as facts.

Drone doesn't draw attention from every enemy on screen. It locks up one enemy at a time. It only moves to a different target if either A) you active the power again, creating a new drone, or the current target dies.

Drone is not on half the cooldown of singularity.

Stasis in ME1 does NOT hold more than one enemy.

Yes, there are vanguard players who don't enjoy using charge as their only active power...just like you don't like "spamming" warp or singularity on an Adept. Your posts are always full of hyprocrisy. You lambast one class for using their signature power too much and yet put another on a pedestal for the exact same thing.

Engineers can handle Shields and Armor....Adepts can handle Armor and Barriers. Engineers can't handle Barriers. Adepts can't handle shields.

Things that Engineers need Teammates to do: 1 (take down Barriers)
Things that Adepts need Teammates to do: 1 (take down Shields)
Teammates with Warp/Reave (for Barriers): 3
Teammates with Overload/Energy Drain (for Shields): 3

And yet you complain that Adept has to deal with protections more, when they are just as equipped as Engineers are.

I'm done arguing if all you are going to do is spout lies and false information.

[Someone With Mass]

The SMGs can take down barriers and shields just fine.

[dreman9999]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The main problem with Adepts is in particular to the classes learning curve and nostalgia factor for old players. The ME1 lover want the new system to be like in some way like the old system and they simply don't want to understand the new system. The problem being that it we allow even the tiniest bit of Shield/protection bypass without penalty will brake the game...Period...
Though I agree the new system is harder to deal with and if trying to learn it hampers the fun of the game, it should be changed. But not taken out.
The biotic protection must stay, but give biotics ways to destroy protection. I feel instead of giving them a power to do so, we just need to make biotics stronger, so strong it brakes protection on contact.....But with a COST....
They can give players the ability to charge Adepts power.
Lore wise and game play wise, it's been stated that their are ways to charge and increase biotic powers in battle.
In Samara's recruit mission we saw it with read sand. In the LftSB dlc,
we saw this with Tal Visir as she charged herself up to do a heavy
biotic charge And it's been described many times in the books.
I propose that Adepts get a power to do the same thing. It would be
it's own power with a fast cooldown time at the same speed as a ammo powers that lets you charge biotic energy to put in any power.

You can charge up and use it with warp ammo for more damage, or with
a number of power to use to over power shields.And it would be a lasting power like barrier but with a much shortor lasting time. It can be update as the power evolve and
your passives improve.
To balance it, the power would have the same defect that the red sand in Samara's recruit
mission, the more energy you have the more it can effect your health. The more
power you charge up the more your health drains over time. Full charges
can take off any protection on enemies but leave you unprotected and
low on health. It can also add more effects on powers like a fully
charge adept can cast a singularity at the same level as a singularity
gun.Effect like that that also drastically increases cooldown times and
slows down health recovery .

Their would be 3 levels of this type of biotic boosting. Level 1 effect you
Shields only, but it only strengthens powers enough to take off all but
the last 4th of shields, more depending on the power. Level 2 takes of lower enemies
Shields, or armour depending on the power you use and effect some of
your health . Level 3 does the strongest damage to enemies and effect the majority of your health.

In short, You can charge you powers to a degree that it can destroy protection with sheer force at one blow but at a cost of your Health. So the more powerful biotics you use, the less heath you have, meaning the higher likeliness you can die. This would balance this new power.

the complaints arent about ME2 being to hard or someone not having the mental fortitude to create tactics in a game as easy as ME2. im not even sure ME2 requires much tactics at all, except for classes that cant use their abilites, like adepts.

i like the charge up idea, but i hope the reason ability evolutions are implemented is so i can use throw on a protected enemy. if im investing a large portion of my points into an ability, id appreciate more then a half second stagger.

The Idea of boosting biotic is that it would destry shields in one throw if powered up enough, but atthe cost of life.

[sevach]

Shepard the Leper wrote...


ME2 already has such an option, it can be found in the difficulty settings menu

People who like to feel all powerful (in order to have fun playing ME) should not play on Insanity. That level is meant for those who want to have fun without being all powerful.

ME is a single player game; difficulty levels are there for a reason. It's in fact the problem everyone who's moaning about biotics has - making Pull or Throw work through defenses is pointless at the default (Normal) setting because (almost) all enemies don't have protection.

The ME2 Adept is way too easy below Hardcore; I don't think that making Adepts equally easy (read boring imo) on the HARDEST difficulty levels would be a good thing.

That's exactly it.

[Aurellia]

dreman9999 wrote...

The main problem with Adepts is in particular to the classes learning curve and nostalgia factor for old players. The ME1 lover want the new system to be like in some way like the old system and they simply don't want to understand the new system. The problem being that it we allow even the tiniest bit of Shield/protection bypass without penalty will brake the game...Period...

You state this as a fact.  Please elaborate.  I don't believe allowing some bypass will break the game if you balance the powers appropriately.  Please prove my belief wrong.

Though I agree the new system is harder to deal with and if trying to learn it hampers the fun of the game, it should be changed. But not taken out.

Again it is was not hard for me to learn.  It is just less interesting or fun for me as a biotic lover.

The biotic protection must stay, but give biotics ways to destroy protection. I feel instead of giving them a power to do so, we just need to make biotics stronger, so strong it brakes protection on contact.....But with a COST....
They can give players the ability to charge Adepts power.
Lore wise and game play wise, it's been stated that their are ways to charge and increase biotic powers in battle.
In Samara's recruit mission we saw it with read sand. In the LftSB dlc,
we saw this with Tal Visir as she charged herself up to do a heavy
biotic charge And it's been described many times in the books.
I propose that Adepts get a power to do the same thing. It would be
it's own power with a fast cooldown time at the same speed as a ammo powers that lets you charge biotic energy to put in any power.
You can charge up and use it with warp ammo for more damage, or with
a number of power to use to over power shields.And it would be a lasting power like barrier but with a much shortor lasting time. It can be update as the power evolve and
your passives improve.
To balance it, the power would have the same defect that the red sand in Samara's recruit
mission, the more energy you have the more it can effect your health. The more
power you charge up the more your health drains over time. Full charges
can take off any protection on enemies but leave you unprotected and
low on health. It can also add more effects on powers like a fully
charge adept can cast a singularity at the same level as a singularity
gun.Effect like that that also drastically increases cooldown times and
slows down health recovery .

Their would be 3 levels of this type of biotic boosting. Level 1 effect you
Shields only, but it only strengthens powers enough to take off all but
the last 4th of shields, more depending on the power. Level 2 takes of lower enemies
Shields, or armour depending on the power you use and effect some of
your health . Level 3 does the strongest damage to enemies and effect the majority of your health.

In short, You can charge you powers to a degree that it can destroy protection with sheer force at one blow but at a cost of your Health. So the more powerful biotics you use, the less heath you have, meaning the higher likeliness you can die. This would balance this new power.

Although I disagree with your earlier points I think this is an interesting approach to solving some of the problem.

My main issue is if I am playing an Adept I want the option to be breaking shields in an Adepty way rather than falling back to shooting which is the soldier way of getting rid of defenses.  I know that combos and what not help here but still it is currently unsatisfying 

I would still add some of the ideas that different defenses have different effects on biotics.

[The Spamming Troll]

sevach wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...


ME2 already has such an option, it can be found in the difficulty settings menu

People who like to feel all powerful (in order to have fun playing ME) should not play on Insanity. That level is meant for those who want to have fun without being all powerful.

ME is a single player game; difficulty levels are there for a reason. It's in fact the problem everyone who's moaning about biotics has - making Pull or Throw work through defenses is pointless at the default (Normal) setting because (almost) all enemies don't have protection.

The ME2 Adept is way too easy below Hardcore; I don't think that making Adepts equally easy (read boring imo) on the HARDEST difficulty levels would be a good thing.

That's exactly it.

and if i wanted to be challenged i play with enemy protections.

except i think that challenge is bogus for my adept.

thats the complaint.

[Aurellia]

[quote]Shepard the Leper wrote...

It's easy to understand the simple Mass Effect 2 combat system, but it's difficult to become a true master. This Bozorgmehr guy can do stuff with his Adept I wouldn't believe possible until I watched him do it in his videos, which means I haven't mastered the Adept like he has because I can only do those things on Veteran difficulty.

[/quote]

While I am not in Boz's class by a long shot, I have mastered Adept enough to beat the game.  The fact that I was using my powers to their full effect a fraction of the time made me feel less like an Adept with a gun than a soldier with some biotics.  Even Boz does what he does because he has a revenant and all the power ups.  Starting from a fresh Adept is quite a bit less awesome.

[quote]

What's fun is personal preference, if you think Vanguards are more fun to play then more power to you. I loved playing Vanguard for a while, but got tired of using Charge over and over again. Its style is about close combat, nothing really tactical, but killing enemies with a shotgun is pretty cool too. Mass Effect offers plenty of ways to play six classes on different difficulty settings. I like the Adept playstyle on Insanity, not because it's the fastest way to kill, but because it makes me feel happy when a plan comes together.

The option to use whatever power whenever you want is totally not tactical by the way, which doesn't mean it cannot be fun to play in such a way.

[/quote]

My issue is that I enjoyed both Vanguard and Adept in ME1 and they had some interesting differences due to power cool downs and Adrenaline Rush.  Admittedly biotics == easy mode after a certain point on Insanity in ME1 but it was at least fun to me.

In ME2 I feel like they took most of the fun out of being an Adept and I think they could have kept more of the Adept fun while making it much harder.  This they did not succeed at for this player.

[quote]

I'm not sure I like your idea. There are few enemies with shields and they are all elites and bosses. When you can use Pull and Throw on them, with a reasonable chance of successfully pulling and knocking them down, with their current cooldown, makes playing the Adept easier than it already is on the default difficulty level.
[/quote]

Just to be clear my idea here is for insanity level only.   I'd make all mobs that had shields/armors/barriers in default difficulty keep the mechanic the same as now.

[quote]

I also don't like the concept of chance. When I use a power I like to know what to expect of it. Having to wait behind cover to see if your attack is successful or not, is not going to improve overall gameplay IMHO.

[/quote]

Well the change goes away if you strip it completely.  In general since biotics tend to be about AOE crowd control I don't think chance will hurt as much as you think.  You throw singularity or pull field on 10 husks that have had their armor stripped odds are high that you will thin the heard a bit.  Also with singularity,  each pulse could give it another chance to land.  I think if done correct this could be awesome.

[quote]
While you are at it get rid of fast health regen and give me back a health bar so my mistakes earlier own wear me down for later.  In halo I had those experiences where my health bar was a sliver and I had to survive on my shield.  Some of those fights were insane and fun.

I want hard that is not boring.[/quote]

I had lots of those moments with the ME2 Vanguard and also with my Adept using Barrier to get out of trouble.

Yeah, I would also love play football the way Messi does. But I never will, because regardless how talented I am (not :-) it requires many long, hard and boring training sessions to get there. You cannot have something challenging and easy. Something easy isn't hard nor challenging. It however is hard and challenging (and possibly boring) to make something hard look easy. That's the true excellence!
[/quote]

And again I am delighted to meet and over come challenging.  While I'm not Boz or messi level, I'm not frustrated because I can't beat the thing.  I beat it pretty easily.  I have beaten dozens of games at the highest difficulty level.  I do take the time it takes to learn and develop the skills.

I am not sure where in my quoted comment you think I wish for easy.  If I wanted that I could simply lower the difficulty level.

So to repeat, my issue is that ME2 insanity for an adept is not that it is hard for me in any way, but rather it is boring

[LemurFromTheId]

Aurellia wrote...

My main issue is if I am playing an Adept I want the option to be breaking shields in an Adepty way rather than falling back to shooting which is the soldier way of getting rid of defenses. I know that combos and what not help here but still it is currently unsatisfying

These are the adepty ways of breaking shields:
- use squad mates' powers
- use your weapons
- use warp bomb
- use bonus ability (energy drain)
- use melee
- use squad mates' weapons
- use warp, singularity or throw to wear the shields off
- use environment (exploding things)
- use heavy weapons - this is too often overlooked, Avalanche is superb at removing defenses

Seriously, how can this be such a huge problem for you guys? (Oh yeah, these ways are not adepty enough. Silly me. The class must be broken.)

Out of curiosity, how does engineer break barriers in an engineery way? Do note, that while an adept only needs one non-protected mook to start the chain reaction, engineer does not have that luxury.

[The Spamming Troll]

MELTOR13 wrote...

I can't argue with someone who blantantly post lies as facts.

Drone doesn't draw attention from every enemy on screen. It locks up one enemy at a time. It only moves to a different target if either A) you active the power again, creating a new drone, or the current target dies.

Drone is not on half the cooldown of singularity.

Stasis in ME1 does NOT hold more than one enemy.

Yes, there are vanguard players who don't enjoy using charge as their only active power...just like you don't like "spamming" warp or singularity on an Adept. Your posts are always full of hyprocrisy. You lambast one class for using their signature power too much and yet put another on a pedestal for the exact same thing.

Engineers can handle Shields and Armor....Adepts can handle Armor and Barriers. Engineers can't handle Barriers. Adepts can't handle shields.

Things that Engineers need Teammates to do: 1 (take down Barriers)
Things that Adepts need Teammates to do: 1 (take down Shields)
Teammates with Warp/Reave (for Barriers): 3
Teammates with Overload/Energy Drain (for Shields): 3

And yet you complain that Adept has to deal with protections more, when they are just as equipped as Engineers are.

I'm done arguing if all you are going to do is spout lies and false information.

opps. i thought drone drew all the enemies attention. i didnt notice drone only drawing one enemies fire, but i dont play with drone alot. i also thought it was on a 3 second cooldown and singularity is on a 6 second cooldown.

ive played ME1 and held more then one person in stasis. and not just once.

i dont care about any other class, except the adept and any opinion i might have given on that classes subject i care very little about. the other classes offer more then just one thing tho. the adepts choices are CC and pistols. if you take away the CC with enemy protections, your leaving me with pistols.

i agree, engineers also suck on insanity too. but like i said, i dont care aboutthe engineer. im playing ME BECAUSE OF BIOTICS. so im taking enemy protections a little more seriosuly then "yeah but you can just bring garrus and miranda on every mission."

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 23 juin 2011 - 09:29 .

[LemurFromTheId]

Aurellia wrote...

While I am not in Boz's class by a long shot, I have mastered Adept enough to beat the game. The fact that I was using my powers to their full effect a fraction of the time made me feel less like an Adept with a gun than a soldier with some biotics.

You can beat Insanity with a vanguard without ever using charge. Just because you've beaten Insanity with an adept does not mean you've learned to use the class to it's full potential.

The fact that you were using your powers to their full effect a fraction of the time tells me you're not playing adept the way it's supposed to be played, and that's why you find it so boring. You feel like a soldier with some biotics because you play it like a soldier with some biotics.

I'm sorry to say, but it's not the class. It's not biotics.

It's you.

[LemurFromTheId]

MELTOR13 wrote...

Drone doesn't draw attention from every enemy on screen. It locks up one enemy at a time. It only moves to a different target if either A) you active the power again, creating a new drone, or the current target dies.

This is a little off-topic, but some may find this interesting...

There is a third possibility: C) the drone loses sight of its target and finds a new one. It's previous target is likely to come back to attack it. This happens very rarely, though. You could try throwing the drone's target behind a corner while the drone is surrounded by other enemies.

[LemurFromTheId]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i agree, engineers also suck on insanity too.

You're kidding, right? Oh, it must be the barriers. They can do nothing about barriers. The class if broken!

I'm getting the feeling you guys are unable to play any class that requires you to do more than just point and shoot.

[The Spamming Troll]

has anyone ever made a thread about engineers sucking?

how many threads are there on adepts sucking?

maybe its not easy to explain, buts its fairly easy to see.