290 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

MELTOR13 wrote...

I can't argue with someone who blantantly post lies as facts.

Drone doesn't draw attention from every enemy on screen. It locks up one enemy at a time. It only moves to a different target if either A) you active the power again, creating a new drone, or the current target dies.

Drone is not on half the cooldown of singularity.

Stasis in ME1 does NOT hold more than one enemy.

Yes, there are vanguard players who don't enjoy using charge as their only active power...just like you don't like "spamming" warp or singularity on an Adept. Your posts are always full of hyprocrisy. You lambast one class for using their signature power too much and yet put another on a pedestal for the exact same thing.

Engineers can handle Shields and Armor....Adepts can handle Armor and Barriers. Engineers can't handle Barriers. Adepts can't handle shields.

Things that Engineers need Teammates to do: 1 (take down Barriers)
Things that Adepts need Teammates to do: 1 (take down Shields)
Teammates with Warp/Reave (for Barriers): 3
Teammates with Overload/Energy Drain (for Shields): 3

And yet you complain that Adept has to deal with protections more, when they are just as equipped as Engineers are.

I'm done arguing if all you are going to do is spout lies and false information.

opps. i thought drone drew all the enemies attention. i didnt notice drone only drawing one enemies fire, but i dont play with drone alot. i also thought it was on a 3 second cooldown and singularity is on a 6 second cooldown.

ive played ME1 and held more then one person in stasis. and not just once.

i dont care about any other class, except the adept and any opinion i might have given on that classes subject i care very little about. the other classes offer more then just one thing tho. the adepts choices are CC and pistols. if you take away the CC with enemy protections, your leaving me with pistols.

i agree, engineers also suck on insanity too. but like i said, i dont care aboutthe engineer. im playing ME BECAUSE OF BIOTICS. so im taking enemy protections a little more seriosuly then "yeah but you can just bring garrus and miranda on every mission."

.......You really don't know the classes... Singularity has a 4.50 second cooldown. At max cooldown that 2.30 seconds.
Engineers have the most cooldown bonuses of all the classes, Drone has a very fast cooldown.
And engineers don't suck on insanity....

[Computer_God91]

Aedolon wrote...

Aurellia wrote...

My main issue is if I am playing an Adept I want the option to be breaking shields in an Adepty way rather than falling back to shooting which is the soldier way of getting rid of defenses. I know that combos and what not help here but still it is currently unsatisfying

These are the adepty ways of breaking shields:
- use squad mates' powers
- use your weapons
- use warp bomb
- use bonus ability (energy drain)
- use melee
- use squad mates' weapons
- use warp, singularity or throw to wear the shields off
- use environment (exploding things)
- use heavy weapons - this is too often overlooked, Avalanche is superb at removing defenses

Seriously, how can this be such a huge problem for you guys? (Oh yeah, these ways are not adepty enough. Silly me. The class must be broken.)

Here's where I stand on this whole thing. In ME1 Biotics had the ability to use their biotics on anyone no matter their defenses. I want this to come back because by the time you strip your enemy of their defenses you may as well just shoot them to death.

In ME1 you could walk into a room full of guys and use throw to lob them all into a wall and made you feel like you were powerful. In ME2 if they have armor or shields they shrug it off like nothing happened and makes you feel powerless almost. Unless you strip them all the way down to health you really can't walk into a room use throw and have someone crumple to the floor. Even when you do they only floor backwards on their ass and get back up.

I think that in ME3 they should return (not completely) to the way ME1 did Biotics, where regardless of their defenses Biotics will work on the target, unless they have a biotic barrier up. This would seem really unbalanced but it wouldn't be if it was implemented correctly. Such as either longer cooldowns for certain AoE powers or longer cooldowns in general for Biotic powers because according to lore these powers take alot of focus and are exhausting so if you make the global cooldown on Biotic powers seperate and alot longer (like in ME1 around 40 seconds) then you'll really only have access to these powers a couple times in a fight.

Also being able to lift or throw the cover someone is hiding on would be awesome too and make Biotic users feel more powerful. I also support Shepard being able to be affected by Biotics too.

[Aurellia]

Aedolon wrote...

You can beat Insanity with a vanguard without ever using charge. Just because you've beaten Insanity with an adept does not mean you've learned to use the class to it's full potential.

The fact that you were using your powers to their full effect a fraction of the time tells me you're not playing adept the way it's supposed to be played, and that's why you find it so boring. You feel like a soldier with some biotics because you play it like a soldier with some biotics.

I'm sorry to say, but it's not the class. It's not biotics.

It's you.

Nice way to make your point with an ad hominem remark.

I may not have learned how to play the class to its maximum potential.  I never claimed to.  I'm not forced to.  I can beat the game easily with various boring strategies.  So using the other posters rebuttal, let's go over the ways to break shields.  If you have some super cool other way to do this that you can school me in, since it's obviously me, then please enlighten me:)

These are the adepty ways of breaking shields:
- use bonus ability (energy drain)

at the expense of having a more useful ability like reave which I can spam and is more effective.
Reave + plasma shottie is awesome, but that is more vanguard than adept

- use warp, singularity or throw to wear the shields off
- use squad mates' powers (overload or reave or warp)

This takes spamming the same power 2-3 times or bringing squad mates with redundant powers and spam across squadies (snore)

Also spamming warp/reave with overload is the common dumb/boring way to play through.

- use warp bomb

This is an interesting combo.  I assume learning to use this well is one of the things you are alluding to.  I don't find this very much fun.  Maybe with practice it might become fun.

- use your weapons 
- use squad mates' weapons
- use heavy weapons - this is too often overlooked, Avalanche is superb at removing defenses- use melee- use environment (exploding things)

These are all soldier and generic activities not adept and biotic activities.

I like the arc protector which kicks ass at removing defenses.  I used this in the Rho fight to get that achievement on insanity.   But I miss being a real adept.   I think the choice used for making insanity more challenging is not the right one.  

You keep telling me that this is because I don't know how to play an adept.  Unless you can show me some really cool tricks that I may have missed in playing and seeing people debate Adept for the past year or two, then I stand by my position that it is boring to me.

I'd love to learn how I can play purely as an Adept like I could in ME1 (note I'm not wanting to be a god here just to play in an adept style)  without having to resort to soldiering to strip defenses

I rewatched 

And even Boz says in his video that  basically you strip shields to health and then do the good stuff.  See the part where he talks about choosing the Geth Pulse rifle.

About the only thing I don't do as much as he does is take advantage of unstable warp so I'll have to go give that a try.

But even with that Adept is not as much fun as it was in ME1 and that's what I'm really looking for, hard in a fun way not a boring or tedious way. 

Modifié par Aurellia, 23 juin 2011 - 11:21 .

[LemurFromTheId]

Computer_God91 wrote...

Here's where I stand on this whole thing. In ME1 Biotics had the ability to use their biotics on anyone no matter their defenses. I want this to come back because by the time you strip your enemy of their defenses you may as well just shoot them to death.

That's just untrue. Most enemies have more health than protections. Weapons get bonuses against protections, but never against health. Direct damage powers get bonuses against protections, but never against health.

Besides, finishing enemies with guns is usually pretty idiotic. Use them as warp bomb fuel, thus reducing the protections of all the other enemies surrounding it.

Computer_God91 wrote...

In ME1 you could walk into a room full of guys and use throw to lob them all into a wall and made you feel like you were powerful. In ME2 if they have armor or shields they shrug it off like nothing happened and makes you feel powerless almost. Unless you strip them all the way down to health you really can't walk into a room use throw and have someone crumple to the floor. Even when you do they only floor backwards on their ass and get back up.

Yes, we are all aware that adepts could do whatever they wanted in ME1. Luckily this is only possible in ME2 when playing below Hardcore difficulty.

Why aren't you playing below Hardcore difficulty? It's not like ME1 was ever difficult.

Computer_God91 wrote...

I think that in ME3 they should return (not completely) to the way ME1 did Biotics, where regardless of their defenses Biotics will work on the target, unless they have a biotic barrier up. This would seem really unbalanced but it wouldn't be if it was implemented correctly. Such as either longer cooldowns for certain AoE powers or longer cooldowns in general for Biotic powers because according to lore these powers take alot of focus and are exhausting so if you make the global cooldown on Biotic powers seperate and alot longer (like in ME1 around 40 seconds) then you'll really only have access to these powers a couple times in a fight.

Are you serious? 40 second global cooldown for biotics? Please tell me that was a joke.

[PrinceLionheart]

Warheadz wrote...

Also, in ME1 you could occasionally use lift to remove the enemy's cover. And vice versa And the enemy could do the same. It added some slight flavor to the combat.... I felt like things in ME2 were just a bit too straight forward.

Chest high walls are impervious to biotics.

[LemurFromTheId]

[quote]Aurellia wrote...

[quote]Aedolon wrote...

You can beat Insanity with a vanguard without ever using charge. Just because you've beaten Insanity with an adept does not mean you've learned to use the class to it's full potential.

The fact that you were using your powers to their full effect a fraction of the time tells me you're not playing adept the way it's supposed to be played, and that's why you find it so boring. You feel like a soldier with some biotics because you play it like a soldier with some biotics.

I'm sorry to say, but it's not the class. It's not biotics.

It's you.[/quote]

Nice way to end with an ad hominem remark.[/quote]

How do you make an ad hominem out of that? It wasn't. Not even close.

[quote]Aurellia wrote...

I may not have learned how to play the class to its maximum potential. I never claimed to. I'm not forced to. I can beat the game easily with various boring strategies.[/quote]

You can beat the game with any class, using any number of boring strategies. It doesn't mean there's something wrong with the class you're playing.

[quote]Aurellia wrote...

So using the other posters rebuttal, let's go over the ways to break shields. If you have some super cool other way to do this that you can school me in, since it's obviously me, then please enlighten me:)
[quote]
These are the adepty ways of breaking shields:
- use bonus ability (energy drain)
[/quote]

at the expense of having a more useful ability like reave which I can spam and is more effective.
Reave + geth shottie is awesome, but that is more vanguard than adept[/quote]

Reave is generally a poor choice for adept. You already have warp, which you'll need for warp explosions and for unlocking throw.

[quote]Aurellia wrote...

[quote]
- use warp, singularity or throw to wear the shields off
- use squad mates' powers (overload or reave or warp)
[/quote]
This takes spamming the same power 2-3 times or bringing squad mates with redundant powers and spam across squadies (snore)
[/quote]

What do you mean by "redundant"? If you have problems with shields, bring someone who can provide overload, energy drain or disruptor ammo.

[quote]Aurellia wrote...

Also spamming warp/reave with overload is the common dumb/boring way to play through.
[/quote]

Using overload to remove shields is dumb and boring? I guess nothing is good enough for you.

[quote]Aurellia wrote...

[quote]
- use warp bomb[/quote]

This is an interesting combo. I assume learning to use this well is one of the things you are alluding to. I don't find this very much fun. Maybe with practice it might be come fun.
[/quote]

You assume correctly. I'm sorry you don't find it fun. I find it fun when I see my enemies flying helplessly through the air.

[quote]Aurellia wrote...

[quote]
- use your weapons
- use squad mates' weapons
- use heavy weapons - this is too often overlooked, Avalanche is superb at removing defenses- use melee- use environment (exploding things)[/quote]

These are all soldier and generic activities not adept and biotic activities.
[/quote]

Yes, I was listing pretty much all the ways you can use to remove shields. These are all methods that adepts use and they shouldn't be ignored.

[quote]Aurellia wrote...

I like the arc protector which kicks ass at removing defenses. I used this in the Rho fight to get that achievement on insanity.

Unless you can show me some really cool tricks that I may have missed in playing and seeing people debate Adept for the past year or two, then I stand by my position that it is boring to me.

I'd love to learn how I can play purely as an Adept like I could in ME1 without having to resort to soldering to strip shields

I rewatched

And even Boz says in his video that basically you strip shields to health and then do the good stuff. See the part where he talks about choosing the Geth Pulse rifle.

About the only thing I don't do as much as he does is take advantage of detonation so I'll have to go give that a try.

But even with that Adept is not as much fun as it was in ME1 and that's what I'm really looking for, hard in a fun way not a boring or tedious way. [/quote]

Sentinels can strip all defenses, while soldiers and half-soldiers don't need to care about defenses too much. The inescapable fact is that adepts and engineers have to find some way past shields and barriers, respectively. That you can't avoid.

Adepts and engineers are armed with SMGs, which have largest bonuses against shields and barriers. That's not a coincidence. But it seems you're not interested in using SMGs, despite the fact that whatever class you play, Shepard is a soldier.

There are many ways to strip shields. I listed most of them. If you find all of them boring, adept - as it is - is probably not for you.

I find sentinel boring. But there's nothing wrong with sentinel. It's just me.

[The Spamming Troll]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

Warheadz wrote...

Also, in ME1 you could occasionally use lift to remove the enemy's cover. And vice versa And the enemy could do the same. It added some slight flavor to the combat.... I felt like things in ME2 were just a bit too straight forward.

Chest high walls are impervious to biotics.

....except charge. theres was somebody earlier saying they had a problem with reave and dominate. what about charge allowing shepard and gear to "phase" through walls?

dreman9999 wrote...

[smilie]../../../../images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie].......You really don't know the classes... Singularity has a 4.50 second cooldown. At max cooldown that 2.30 seconds.
Engineers have the most cooldown bonuses of all the classes, Drone has a very fast cooldown.
And engineers don't suck on insanity....

so were comparing 4.5 seconds to 3 seconds instead of 6 to 3. big whoop, dude. but wait, then you said drone has a very fast cooldown. so now drone is way faster then singularities cooldown, not just 1.5 seconds?

there just words. you dont have to take them so meaningfully.

Aedolon wrote...

Aurellia wrote...

I may not
have learned how to play the class to its maximum potential. I never
claimed to. I'm not forced to. I can beat the game easily with various
boring strategies.

You can beat the game with any class,
using any number of boring strategies. It doesn't mean there's
something wrong with the class you're playing.

......if you can convince one person in here that the adepts stategy doesnt change from veteran to hardcore, ill send you a million dollars.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 24 juin 2011 - 03:45 .

[D.Kain]

who would know wrote...

Fine the way it is. Pick the difficulty that is attuned to how you play.

D.Kain wrote...

OH and last thing. NO projectiles!!! Every power should work instantely! Throw looks like in ME1.

Nope. If throw didn't follow a trajectory, you wouldn't be able to curve it around cover or even aim it deliberately. There's appeal in making something like Incinerate instant... but not biotics.

I made it instant curve in my post. 

[Reptillius]

Speaking purely from personal experience. I had a lot more issues using Biotics on the highest difficulties in ME1 than I did ME2 and my pure biotic would basically flatten groups armour and all with jsut a few casts on insanity in ME2. The only one that really seemed weak in ME2 was the singature power of shockwave... This supposed freight train power that if I was lucky knocked the enemy off and they died that way more than actually doing real damage to them and if I was really unlucky threw them towards me. Granted Grunt was good at catching the ones thrown towards me with a shotgun blast but still...

[Avalon Aurora]

I don't think Armor should block biotic attacks, but I think Shields and Barriers should help protect from them. Armor only enemies should be highly vulnerable to biotics.

Enemies that previously might have had armor only as an early biotic protection, should instead have just a tiny, weak shield, that only really needs a single shot from even the weakest of weapons to disrupt it before using biotics.

[Fordtransit]

Well Dont touch reave! I am just reaving thru Insanaty !

[Whyp_2]

I support this thread, but not sure it's gonna happen.

*looks at Holmes post*

[Kakistos_]

dreman9999 wrote...

Kakistos_ wrote...

Thank the Biotic God for this thread. I have issue with the "Biotic" powers Reave and Dominate. Lore-wise these should not be possible. Like other Biotics in ME2, they were just toys to play with and shouldn't show up in ME3 if Biotics are to be taken seriously. Also, my ideal Adept in ME3 should be able to unlock ALL Biotic Powers, with the sacrifice to weapon and armor points/upgrades and not just one extra power at a time via research.

The problem is with this complain is that we don't know the full limits of Biotic power. Everything in ME1 about Biotic power is base on what Humans know and the knowlwge of one Asari that still consedered a child to her people. It's pretty clear with the Benesia fight in ME1, that they are untapped limit with biotic. Lore wise, just the basics have been stated in ME1. Don't take it as an apsolute.

I was referring to the mind control aspect of those powers. It is one thing to link nervous systems but to control them is quite another issue that was completely left out of Asari lore.

[Ahriman]

Sorta support this thread, I'd prefer more powerfull biotic abilties with longer cooldown for adept, but I understand that people who enjoyed ME2 won't like this. Anyway devs already decided to keep it ME2 way, so whatever.
Still I have problem with this barrier concept. That's just impossible, only VI can react fast enough to use shield. inb4 special VI for biotics - biotic is an intentional act and VI cannot control your brain, technology for such mind speeding up doesn't exist in ME universe.
Were these barriers really necessary? I mean, did it really improve the game?

Kakistos_ wrote...

Thank the Biotic God for this thread. I have issue with the "Biotic" powers Reave and Dominate. Lore-wise these should not be possible. Like other Biotics in ME2, they were just toys to play with and shouldn't show up in ME3 if Biotics are to be taken seriously. Also, my ideal Adept in ME3 should be able to unlock ALL Biotic Powers, with the sacrifice to weapon and armor points/upgrades and not just one extra power at a time via research.

I don't remember, was it really referenced as biotic power in game?

Modifié par Wizz, 27 juin 2011 - 11:10 .

[Kakistos_]

Wizz wrote...

Sorta support this thread, I'd prefer more powerfull biotic abilties with longer cooldown for adept, but I understand that people who enjoyed ME2 won't like this. Anyway devs already decided to keep it ME2 way, so whatever.
Still I have problem with this barrier concept. That's just impossible, only VI can react fast enough to use shield. inb4 special VI for biotics - biotic is an intentional act and VI cannot control your brain, technology for such mind speeding up doesn't exist in ME universe.
Were these barriers really necessary? I mean, did it really improve the game?

Kakistos_ wrote...

Thank the Biotic God for this thread. I have issue with the "Biotic" powers Reave and Dominate. Lore-wise these should not be possible. Like other Biotics in ME2, they were just toys to play with and shouldn't show up in ME3 if Biotics are to be taken seriously. Also, my ideal Adept in ME3 should be able to unlock ALL Biotic Powers, with the sacrifice to weapon and armor points/upgrades and not just one extra power at a time via research.

I don't remember, was it really referenced as biotic power in game?

Reave is as it employs Biotic fields. Enemies under the effect of Dominate have a Biotic-effect sheen to them.

[DrinkySmurf]

You are weaker in ME2 in terms of biotics than you were in ME1. Even on lower difficulties. In ME1 you could use singularity or lift to attack large groups, not anymore. And no, this is not only on hard difficulties. I guess for insanity players this does not matter, most people seem to prefer the ME2 system. I personally think ME1 was better in every way but graphically than ME2. But especially how weak your biotics are in ME2.