290 réponses à ce sujet

[Computer_God91]

Kronner wrote...

This again? You should realize that NORMAL difficulty is the baseline Mass Effect experience. If you like being a biotic God, play on Normal and enjoy.
Do not take Insanity experience away from those who like it. Please.

I play on Hardcore normally. I never said anything about the games difficulties. Making Biotics function properly isn't saying make the game easier its saying make the biotics work the way they are supposed to.

[Warheadz]

Kronner wrote...

Warheadz wrote...

Kronner wrote...

This again? You should realize that NORMAL difficulty is the baseline Mass Effect experience. If you like being a biotic God, play on Normal and enjoy.
Do not take Insanity experience away from those who like it. Please.

Insanity experience? What's that? All I remember from my ME2 Insanity run is every enemy having a ****load of different type of health bars, and my Shepard shooting 20-30 headshots to kill someone.

LOL
Well that right here tells me you never played on Insanity, so you have no idea what you're talking about.
Maybe if you actually took some time to learn game mechanics, you would not spit such nonsense all over this thread.

Game mechanics meaning warp to destroy barrier, fire thingy to destroy armor and overload to destroy shields? You don't have to assume I'm stupid. But even with all those used, you have to shoot about 6 bursts to the head with a AR if there was more than one enemy. "Game mechanics"? Pfft... It was a tiresome rock-paper-scissors version.

[Computer_God91]

Kronner wrote...

Warheadz wrote...

Kronner wrote...

This again? You should realize that NORMAL difficulty is the baseline Mass Effect experience. If you like being a biotic God, play on Normal and enjoy.
Do not take Insanity experience away from those who like it. Please.

Insanity experience? What's that? All I remember from my ME2 Insanity run is every enemy having a ****load of different type of health bars, and my Shepard shooting 20-30 headshots to kill someone.

LOL
Well that right here tells me you never played on Insanity, so you have no idea what you're talking about.
Maybe if you actually took some time to learn game mechanics, you would not spit such nonsense all over this thread.

Oh lord, guy. Get over yourself. Warheadz was probably exaggerating, but that's no reason to say they have no idea what they are talking about when Insanity was basically adding armor and shields to EVERYTHING even Varren.

[Kronner]

Computer_God91 wrote...

Kronner wrote...

This again? You should realize that NORMAL difficulty is the baseline Mass Effect experience. If you like being a biotic God, play on Normal and enjoy.
Do not take Insanity experience away from those who like it. Please.

I play on Hardcore normally. I never said anything about the games difficulties. Making Biotics function properly isn't saying make the game easier its saying make the biotics work the way they are supposed to.

In that case you'd be able to use two, maybe three biotic powers in 20 or 30 minutes, then you'd be exhausted.

Gameplay >>> Lore

Simple as that. And thank God for that. And biotics function properly, I would think that teamwork (as in Garrus strips the shield, you Pull the enemy and Thane detonates him with Warp etc.) would be welcome on Hardcore or Insanity. If you don't like that, play on Normal. Enemies still look the same (wearing the same armor outrfit), but they (most of them anyway) do not have Shield/Barrier/Armor bar so you are free to be Biotic God. So what is your problem exactly?

The fact that enemies have Shield/Barrier/Armor bar on Hardcore and Insanity results in much more interesting gameplay for veteran Mass Effect players. Why should that change?

Modifié par Kronner, 22 juin 2011 - 06:44 .

[Praetor Knight]

Warheadz wrote...

Game mechanics meaning warp to destroy barrier, fire thingy to destroy armor and overload to destroy shields? You don't have to assume I'm stupid. But even with all those used, you have to shoot about 6 bursts to the head with a AR if there was more than one enemy. "Game mechanics"? Pfft... It was a tiresome rock-paper-scissors version.

Then you should also know about the health to protection ratios too in ME2.


And the 210 damage Heavy Incinerate power can work against Barriers and Shields quite well if memory serves.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 22 juin 2011 - 06:47 .

[Kronner]

Warheadz wrote...

Game mechanics meaning warp to destroy barrier, fire thingy to destroy armor and overload to destroy shields? You don't have to assume I'm stupid. But even with all those used, you have to shoot about 6 bursts to the head with a AR if there was more than one enemy. "Game mechanics"? Pfft... It was a tiresome rock-paper-scissors version.

I recommend you check out some videos/guides in the ME2 strategy subforum. Killing enemies (with both weapons AND powers) on Insanity in ME2 MUCH faster than in ME1. It's not even close.

Computer_God91 wrote...

Oh lord, guy. Get over yourself.
Warheadz was probably exaggerating, but that's no reason to say they
have no idea what they are talking about when Insanity was basically
adding armor and shields to EVERYTHING even Varren.

Of course he was. And obviously he has no idea about what he's talking about when he says stuff like that.

[Massadonious1]

I would say the armor on everything part wasn't really much of an exaggeration.

[Computer_God91]

Kronner wrote...

In that case you'd be able to use two, maybe three biotic powers in 20 or 30 minutes, then you'd be exhausted.

Gameplay >>> Lore

Simple as that. And thank God for that. And biotics function properly, I would think that teamwork (as in Garrus strips the shield, you Pull the enemy and Thane detonates him with Warp etc.) would be welcome on Hardcore or Insanity. If you don't like that, play on Normal. Enemies still look the same (wearing the same armor outrfit), but they (most of them anyway) do not have Shield/Barrier/Armor bar so you are free to be Biotic God. So what is your problem exactly?

The fact that enemies have Shield/Barrier/Armor bar on Hardcore and Insanity results in much more interesting gameplay for veteran Mass Effect players. Why should that change?

Oh my god. *Facepalm*

I think you're missing what I'm saying here. I am a veteran Mass Effect player. I've played both ME games over ten times minimum. I am not talking about difficulty at all period. When I say make them function like they should I mean work through what the are supposed to work through i.e. Shields Do NOT cancel biotics therefore lift on a shielded enemy should still lift them. Instead they shrug it off like nothing happened.

Biotics don't function properly in the sense that they don't work on armored or shielded people when they should. What you discribe Garrus strips shields > You pull > Thane detonates is exactly what you have to do and what I do. However you should be able to pull/lift/throw/singularity someone regardless if the shield/armor is up or not.

Have you even played the first Mass Effect?

[Bogsnot1]

Praetor Shepard wrote...
Then you should also know about the health to protection ratios too in ME2.

And the 210 damage Heavy Incinerate power can work against Barriers and Shields quite well if memory serves.

It does server you well.

From the wiki:

Incinerate deals the listed damage amount against barriers, shields and
organic health. Synthetic enemies are fire resistant and take
significantly less damage to both health and armour.

On higher difficulties, a leveled up Incinerate may be a better, and more damaging alternative to Overload
against weakly shielded enemies. This is because Incinerate is capable
of not only depleting an enemy's shields, but causing additional damage
to their health. Whereas Overload would take down their shields and
cause no further damage.

[Computer_God91]

Massadonious1 wrote...

I would say the armor on everything part wasn't really much of an exaggeration.

Hell no it wasn't. When I played insanity I seriously thought to myself "Really armor on EVERYTHING? Husks and Varren? This is pretty stupid" so I dropped to Hardcore after I finished my insanity run.

[Warheadz]

[MrFob]

Hey, guys wasn't this thread supposed to be about biotics, rather than difficulty levels and who knows how much about game mechanics?
I think biotics were very limited in ME2 and it would be great if they were more interactive in ME3 and if they were more lore consistent and (see my earlier post) that they would provide more diversity in fights if enemies could use them.
No one suggested to make the game easier or to make biotics all powerful gods. It's all a question of how it is implemented.

[Praetor Knight]

Computer_God91 wrote...

Oh my god. *Facepalm*

I think you're missing what I'm saying here. I am a veteran Mass Effect player. I've played both ME games over ten times minimum. I am not talking about difficulty at all period. When I say make them function like they should I mean work through what the are supposed to work through i.e. Shields Do NOT cancel biotics therefore lift on a shielded enemy should still lift them. Instead they shrug it off like nothing happened.

Biotics don't function properly in the sense that they don't work on armored or shielded people when they should. What you discribe Garrus strips shields > You pull > Thane detonates is exactly what you have to do and what I do. However you should be able to pull/lift/throw/singularity someone regardless if the shield/armor is up or not.

Have you even played the first Mass Effect?

I've played both and maybe I pay too much attention.

There are armor and armor mods fromME1 that can account for the "diminished" effects seen in ME2 against biotics.

So the issues, I guess, are the gameplay abstractions from the changes between ME1 and ME2.

[Computer_God91]

MrFob wrote...

Hey, guys wasn't this thread supposed to be about biotics, rather than difficulty levels and who knows how much about game mechanics?

Seriously, I agree. Can we get back on topic here?

MrFob wrote...
I think biotics were very limited in ME2 and it would be great if they were more interactive in ME3 and if they were more lore consistent and (see my earlier post) that they would provide more diversity in fights if enemies could use them.
No one suggested to make the game easier or to make biotics all powerful gods. It's all a question of how it is implemented.

This is basically what Im saying here.

[Praetor Knight]

MrFob wrote...

 It's all a question of how it is implemented.

Yes, I agree.

I would simply prefer building from the template ME2 provides.



And maybe there will be some new armor mods that can give a boost?

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

It's funny...

In ME1, I hated playing as a biotic because light armor sucked, and medium armor wasn't much better. I died a lot during that mission on the moon. Never put points into Wrex's biotics either.

In ME2, I loved playing as an adept and especially as a vanguard. Once I unlocked the Tempest, it was smooth sailing from that point on. I would like to see Throw do more damage, though. As it stands right now, it just pushes people over.

[Kronner]

Computer_God91 wrote...

Oh my god. *Facepalm*

I think you're missing what I'm saying here. I am a veteran Mass Effect player. I've played both ME games over ten times minimum. I am not talking about difficulty at all period. When I say make them function like they should I mean work through what the are supposed to work through i.e. Shields Do NOT cancel biotics therefore lift on a shielded enemy should still lift them. Instead they shrug it off like nothing happened.

Biotics don't function properly in the sense that they don't work on armored or shielded people when they should. What you discribe Garrus strips shields > You pull > Thane detonates is exactly what you have to do and what I do. However you should be able to pull/lift/throw/singularity someone regardless if the shield/armor is up or not.

Have you even played the first Mass Effect?

Of course I have.
If you went back to ME1 style with biotics working on pretty much everything, you would have to bring back the ridiculous number of hitpoints enemies have in ME1. You could CC them right away and turn them into defenseless kites, and then you would have to shoot them until they die. In ME2 biotics allow for much faster killing speed. I much prefer ME2 style because it is much more rewarding and fun, for me anyway.
And the way biotics work in ME1 is NOT like the lore says they do either. I'll just leave it at that.

[Computer_God91]

Kronner wrote...

Of course I have.
If you went back to ME1 style with biotics working on pretty much everything, you would have to bring back the ridiculous number of hitpoints enemies have in ME1. You could CC them right away and turn them into defenseless kites, and then you would have to shoot them until they die. In ME2 biotics allow for much faster killing speed. I much prefer ME2 style because it is much more rewarding and fun, for me anyway.
And the way biotics work in ME1 is NOT like the lore says they do either. I'll just leave it at that.

If you read the books you'll see people throwing other people with Shields around and also throwing tanks. So tell me how it makes sense that because someone has an armor bar or Shield bar this is canceled out? It doesn't and shouldn't. Making people into defenseless kites is basically what Biotics do, but it is also very tiring.

One way to solve this is not make it possible to spam biotics (which was mostly solved in ME2) and turn everyone in the room into ragdolls but allow you to use a lift (or whatever) on a sheilded or armored opponent so that biotics actually have power behind them and can be used to temporarly disable someone.

You could make a seperate global cooldown for Biotics and make the cooldowns as long as they were in ME1 so that you really can only unlease 2-3 biotic powers in a fight but have them have the muscle they had in ME1. You could take the AoE off them because I really don't think a push or a pull would be easy to cast on multiple people.

Also be able to move cover around again would be great like I talked about earlier. It would be cool just to use lift on someones cover to life it above them and then shoot them instead of just always having to cast it on someone.

Modifié par Computer_God91, 22 juin 2011 - 07:34 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Computer_God91 wrote...

MrFob wrote...

Hey, guys wasn't this thread supposed to be about biotics, rather than difficulty levels and who knows how much about game mechanics?

Seriously, I agree. Can we get back on topic here?

This topic is about difficulty - not biotics. If you can't handle protection, play on Normal (= how ME2 is balanced). Please don't confuse your own inability to play (effectively) on Insanity with how certain powers work. In ME1 you press Lift and Singularity (you don't have to be an Adept, bringing Liara is all that's needed) and you've won. ME1 biotics completely broke the game - no challlenge, no fighting, no teamwork, nothing - only mindless butchering harmless enemies.

In ME2 biotics are great; and they are at their best when playing on Insanity. Again, if you think differently, play on an easier difficulty level and learn how to use biotics first.

[shadowreflexion]

Computer_God91 wrote...

 Seriously, I hate how armor or shields blocks out Biotics when honestly they shouldn't unless its a Biotic barrier. What do you guys think? Should they make Biotics actually function like they should?

With biotics, I expected a lot more visual flash. Being a biotic to me is about the up close and personal in your face power. Not invincible but more primal in battle. If someone has shields then I think a biotic "crush" coupled with an unstable warp should strip the protection completely. To me, the barriers are justifiable protection but biotics should still be allowed to throw that target not at a great distance but enough to give the biotic "breathing" room.
While I don't fully support superhuman strength for the biotic, I do support a more primal rage.

I'm a sucker for visual style (not to be mistaken with a graphics who**) in the such that having that full body eerie blue glow emanating like Samara, Jack, Liara, and Vasir adds to the feel of playing as a biotic.

Powers I think should be available is something like "crush" from the Jack, "Fight for the Lost" trailer.
To keep it M rated, a "Tear" like feature used on synthetics. (Rips them apart)
LotSB showed that biotics manipulated objects in battle, so why not have some objects that can be thrown or even moved to hurt or make cover? Not in the way Bioshock and Dead Space handled it though. Something that places you in the shoes of the biotic.

On a somewhat but not fully related note. The evolution of the powers should in no way be limited as they were in ME1 and ME2. If you want to build that character to have every available power at your disposal to obtain that Biotic mastery, then so be it.

[Kronner]

Computer_God91 wrote...

If you read the books you'll see people throwing other people with Shields around and also throwing tanks. So tell me how it makes sense that because someone has an armor bar or Shield bar this is canceled out? It doesn't and shouldn't. Making people into defenseless kites is basically what Biotics do, but it is also very tiring.

One way to solve this is not make it possible to spam biotics (which was mostly solved in ME2) and turn everyone in the room into ragdolls but allow you to use a lift (or whatever) on a sheilded or armored opponent so that biotics actually have power behind them and can be used to temporarly disable someone.

You could make a seperate global cooldown for Biotics and make the cooldowns as long as they were in ME1 so that you really can only unlease 2-3 biotic powers in a fight but have them have the muscle they had in ME1. You could take the AoE off them because I really don't think a push or a pull would be easy to cast on multiple people.

Also be able to move cover around again would be great like I talked about earlier. It would be cool just to use lift on someones cover to life it above them and then shoot them instead of just always having to cast it on someone.

Again, you CAN already do that..on Normal (for example).

Hardcore and Insanity are made differently ON PURPOSE. This is not question of lore or biotics working on this or that. Those two difficulty modes provide additional difficulty (for those who like it) by adding defensive layer on top of pretty much every enemy. This has nothing to do with lore or anything. It is a gameplay decision.

[LemurFromTheId]

I really don't know what to say. You guys claim you don't want adept to be overpowered, yet you also claim he's weak in ME2, doesn't feel powerful and should be able to use his powers regardless of defenses? Does not compute.

Adepts feel pretty powerful to me. I feel powerful when clearing collector platforms with warp bombs. I feel powerful when throwing krogans 20 meters into the air. Killing speed is generally right behind soldier and vanguard - and sometimes it's better than that, depending on situation. On Normal and Veteran adepts can do absolutely whatever they please. On Hardcore and Insanity you need to play tactically, but idea that enemy defenses somehow remove biotics from play is just demonstrably false. Most defenses are pretty thin, and you only need one mook in the air.

It's true that biotics don't work quite the way they do in the lore (what does?), but to me, that's a blessing. Throwing one superpower and then spending the rest of the battle sipping Gatorade and spraying bullets from the SMG is not what I want this game to be. I wan't to be using my biotics, constantly - and that's how I play in ME2. It's as it should be. It makes the game tactical, it makes it fun.

And how on Earth is ME2 more straighforward than ME1? In ME1, adepts just throw in whatever they got, no matter what the enemy is, no matter what the situation is. In ME2, you need to constantly think. You need to react. When opportunity shows itself, you need to take advantage. You need to create your own oppportunities. You need to play the right card at the right time.

In short, you need to play tactically. To me that's fun.

[CaolIla]

Wow that's sad: one party says "Let biotics work on armoured/shielded enemies" the other party says "If you want to have an easier gameplay change the settings".

Seriously, if it was integrated in a good way, than it wouldn't be easier or less tactical. If an armored and shielded Opponent gets thrown into the sky and warpbombed that would maybe just strip his shield or something similar and then he could fight on... they never said they wanted to instant kill someone, just to have the biotics work on them.

And I love those "Yeah you should learn this and that" and "you just don't know how to do this and that" comments.... classy!

I don't want the game to be easy on a higher difficulty, hell I'm scared of the footage shown till know, cause it looks like a walk in the park and WAY too easy. I fear that they'll don't scale it right and Insanity will also be a "no cover, blast everything rambostyle away" experience, which it already was in ME2 with soldier class.

That said: if Biotics were implemented well in the way it was said before it could add a new flavor to the gameplay and be just as hard as it was in ME2. And I think it could be additionally challenging to deal with enemies with biotic barriers, in ME2 it's all the same with the enemies, you have a clear strategy against all the enemies and it's basically always the same just with different powers. But you would have to change tactics drastically, if those powers would work differently depending on the Shield/Barrier of the opponent.

[Dem_B]

Easier to just shoot the enemy than to apply the biotic skills. 

If would be advantageous to use biotic abilities, then I would have preferred to play for one of the biotic classes, now I'm playing for the Infiltrator.

In the cutscene Jack can kill Ymir's fist and Samara can throw tens of collectors, but in game is not as powerful. 

I would like to use biotics do not for fatality, but as a force capable of helping me in a battle with a powerful enemy.
 

[Juha81FIN]

For me biggest issue is that I am playing adept almost sameway as I am playing soldier, except I have to choose from squad members to get different ammo powers for adept. I hope this can be made better.