290 réponses à ce sujet

[Bozorgmehr]

Does anyone feel gimped or weak when playing Adept on Normal?

Why do you think some enemies have protection when playing on Normal?

The answers to both questions explains everything about ME2 gameplay.

[locowolfie]

the problem i see reading trough this discussion is that people are confusing 2 things.
1. It's a gameplay vs lore discussion.
2. The transition from ME1 to ME2 gameplay.

Because i agree that the lore says that biotics are basicly ''gods'' on te battlefield no if or but.
Only problem with that is (as we all saw in ME1) it makes for a pispoorly balanced gameplay.

So Bioware remedied it but imo went to far the other way, now gameplay is more balanced but its out of sink with the lore, as are other gameplay vs lore topics(heatsinks anyone).

so what it comes down to is what is more important gameplay or lore.

(sorry for any misspelling i am dutch so not a native english speaker

Modifié par locowolfie, 22 juin 2011 - 10:40 .

[efrgfhnm_]

Biotics did get a major decrease in power in between games, but it does mean that the problems caused in ME didn't carry over. It was undeniably frustrating to blast an enym and for them to fall under the walkway and be unreachable, or for Shep to be knocked over and get stuck in a wall or something

[Adanu]

Kronner wrote...

Warheadz wrote...

Game mechanics meaning warp to destroy barrier, fire thingy to destroy armor and overload to destroy shields? You don't have to assume I'm stupid. But even with all those used, you have to shoot about 6 bursts to the head with a AR if there was more than one enemy. "Game mechanics"? Pfft... It was a tiresome rock-paper-scissors version.

I recommend you check out some videos/guides in the ME2 strategy subforum. Killing enemies (with both weapons AND powers) on Insanity in ME2 MUCH faster than in ME1. It's not even close.

Computer_God91 wrote...

Oh lord, guy. Get over yourself.
Warheadz was probably exaggerating, but that's no reason to say they
have no idea what they are talking about when Insanity was basically
adding armor and shields to EVERYTHING even Varren.

Of course he was. And obviously he has no idea about what he's talking about when he says stuff like that.

I've played a full playthrough of insanity with an Adept, and he pretty much described it perfectly. Get over yourself.

[SkittlesKat96]

Warheadz wrote...

They should just make Biotics fun again. In ME1 you actually felt slightly powerful... But in ME2 the powers are nothing more than a little toy. The opportunities to use the powers eficciently are few, as most of the time the enemies have low enough health that it's just quicker to shoot 'em.

True enough, that said though the biotics could be slow at times in ME 1 and since the combat was so awful you usually got shot up heaps and had a Krogan charge right past your cover and start killing you while you were trying to use your biotics

Biotics are underpowered in ME 1 and its even been confirmed...they were meant to have destructable environments and more prop damage (for example biotics could smash blocks or pillars into people) but they took it out and didn't really get a chance to balance it very well

[Kronner]

Adanu wrote...
I've played a full playthrough of insanity with an Adept, and he pretty much described it perfectly. Get over yourself.

So enemies can take 20-30 headshots or 6 AR bursts before going down? I didn't think so.
Adept on Insanity can be this good:


Get over yourself.

[Seeker Sparrow]

Computer_God91 wrote...

I am a veteran Mass Effect player.

I stopped reading when i saw this.

[Cainne Chapel]

Still not understanding how you want Biotics to work like the Lore, when they didnt work like Lore in ME1 either?

All this boils down to, to me anyway, is that some dont like ALL their powers being inneffective against some enemies.

I really dont have a problem with that, I dont think any one class should run rough shod over all enemies in the game. My Adept and Vanguard can clear a room MUCH more quickly than my Soldier or Infiltrator can, and I LOVE my Infiltrator to death (Favorite class). Sure some protections can stymie that... but thats why theres powers like Warp/Overload, etc to remove said protection.

I dont miss walking into a base, slapping on singularity and totally removing all challenge from it

Besides I dont think it'd be fun to Limit shept to 3 or 4 BIotic maneuvers and then have to rely on your pistol or SMG for the remainder of the mission... that just sounds anti-climactic to me. Same goes for biotic teammates.

[00_Gundam]

Having biotics affect enemies regardless of shields or armor is nice but then they would be able to do the same to you. Imagine being hurled midair while in a firefight you are powerless and just a sitting duck for your enemies to shoot.The most important thing about Biotics would be to balance them in a way that makes us powerful yet not so and also vulnerable

[Beerfish]

I just think it would be too easy if biotics went back to ignoring shields and such. If that was the case my group would be very biotic heavy on each and every assignement. The way it is in me2 there is a real incentive to have a balanced group with someone that can take down shields. If the barriers did not exist I'd have Samarra, Jack and my vanguard all of the time just flinging people about, especially with the very quick recharge times.

[MELTOR13]

As stated before many times in this thread, Normal is the baseline experience for Mass Effect. Play on Normal difficulty if you want to feel like a biotic god.

[Bozorgmehr]

00_Gundam wrote...

Having biotics affect enemies regardless of shields or armor is nice but then they would be able to do the same to you.
Imagine being hurled midair while in a firefight you are powerless and just a sitting duck for your enemies to shoot.The most important thing about Biotics would be to balance them in a way that makes us powerful yet not so and also vulnerable

That's not possible. The moment defenses stop blocking some (biotic) powers is the moment ME's gameplay dies.

Think about it. Why would anyone use anything other than Pull or Throw? I cannot think of a single situation in which Singularity, Stasis, Reave, Warp, Slam, Shockwave or Dominate would be better or more effective. Removing the protection system will render almost all powers completely useless - not an option imo.

[locowolfie]

It's getting tiring to hear people say play normal if its to hard blah blah its not about being to hard or easy its about lore vs gameplay inconsistensy. That is what OP was refering to.




EDIT: And i would ad that i like the layered more tactical play of ME 2 (it's just not right lorewise)

Modifié par locowolfie, 22 juin 2011 - 01:55 .

[MELTOR13]

There is no gameplay inconsistency on Normal, or at least very little, if any.

You can't make the lore consistent on every level of gameplay or then it turns back into ME1 and you get to keep an entire room floating in the air while you shoot at them for 2 minutes.

[atheelogos]

Computer_God91 wrote...

 Seriously, I hate how armor or shields blocks out Biotics when honestly they shouldn't unless its a Biotic barrier. What do you guys think? Should they make Biotics actually function like they should?

Yes they should and they need to get rid of reave and dominate. They're lore breaking

[Bozorgmehr]

locowolfie wrote...

It's getting tiring to hear people say play normal if its to hard blah blah its not about being to hard or easy its about lore vs gameplay inconsistensy. That is what OP was refering to.

To me it looks like the OP wants the broken ME1 system back:

Computer_God91 wrote...

Exactly! and I agree in ME1 you actually felt powerful walking into a room using a push and everyone go slamming into the nearest wall.

lol. I did the very same thing [modding ME2 to make protection pointless] and it did make it alot more fun.

Insanity was basically adding armor and shields to EVERYTHING even Varren.

However you should be able to pull/lift/throw/singularity someone regardless if the shield/armor is up or not.

When I played insanity I seriously thought to myself "Really armor on EVERYTHING? Husks and Varren? This is pretty stupid" so I dropped to Hardcore after I finished my insanity run.

I don't read about lore here; only someone who's feeling frustrated for not being the ME1 biotic god when playing ME2 on Insanity. The OP is talking about gameplay and difficulty levels - not lore.

And you've said it yourself: Gameplay >>>> Lore. 

[Exolyps]

How I can see to fix this is that shields/armor reduces the effectiveness of the biotic power.

So push someone with an armor on and instead of a 700N effect you manage get a 400N effect.
Lift someone with a shield and the duration is reduced. (The shield absorbs the power over time and thus reduces the time it is effective)

[Bozorgmehr]

Exolyps wrote...

How I can see to fix this is that shields/armor reduces the effectiveness of the biotic power.

So push someone with an armor on and instead of a 700N effect you manage get a 400N effect.
Lift someone with a shield and the duration is reduced. (The shield absorbs the power over time and thus reduces the time it is effective)

That still allows an Adept - without weapons, squadmates and only one point in Pull or Throw - to take on 3 YMIRs and beat them to death without taking any damage.

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 22 juin 2011 - 02:33 .

[MELTOR13]

Exolyps wrote...

How I can see to fix this is that shields/armor reduces the effectiveness of the biotic power.

So push someone with an armor on and instead of a 700N effect you manage get a 400N effect.
Lift someone with a shield and the duration is reduced. (The shield absorbs the power over time and thus reduces the time it is effective)

That would either A) be massively overpowered going back to ME1 style or require a huge overhaul of the combat mechanics of the game. 

Throwing someone with armor, even if the effect is lessened, would keep them stun-locked for eternity. Same thing with Lift, all of the powers. They would need to significantly increase the cooldowns for powers, which would kill the gameplay. 

[CajNatalie]

I tried turning off shields blocking powers once with a Sentinel with Slam.
I was slamming YMIRs constantly and the game was a joke, lol. Which is obviously a bad thing for gameplay, regardless of how lulzily fun it was.
I removed my mods after I was done with that Sentinel...

[Hathur]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Sure, as long as they make Shep susceptible to biotics as well. None of this blue glow and slump to the ground like in ME1, actually give the enemies the chance to throw your Shep off a ledge, or fling Shep high into the sky, or get dizzy and throw up after spinning aruond a singularity.

I would <3 that ... it would make the game a lot more tactical & strategic in how you approach combat... you'd have to carefully consider your own positioning and when to pop out of cover to make sure you don't get snagged by a pull, lift or throw 

I would at least love to see it on insanity difficulty anyway.

[sp0ck 06]

Kronner wrote...

Adanu wrote...
I've played a full playthrough of insanity with an Adept, and he pretty much described it perfectly. Get over yourself.

So enemies can take 20-30 headshots or 6 AR bursts before going down? I didn't think so.
Adept on Insanity can be this good:


Get over yourself.

This.

I highly disagree with most people in this thread.  Biotics are extremely powerful in ME2, they just require actual thought to use effectively.  Unlike in ME1, where biotics were admittedly fun, but so insanely overpowered it rendered most encounters a joke.  

If you feel biotics are useless in ME2, I highly encourage you to go to the strategy forums and check out some of the Adept threads.  There's definitely a learning curve to ME2 biotics, but once you start to master them the Adept becomes an absolute beast.

The only major problem I have with biotics in ME2 is redundancy.  Pull and Throw serve the same purpose, yet you're forced to put points into both.  I found this quite irritating, especially since power selection is already so limited in ME2.

[locowolfie]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

locowolfie wrote...

It's getting tiring to hear people say play normal if its to hard blah blah its not about being to hard or easy its about lore vs gameplay inconsistensy. That is what OP was refering to.

To me it looks like the OP wants the broken ME1 system back:

Computer_God91 wrote...

Exactly! and I agree in ME1 you actually felt powerful walking into a room using a push and everyone go slamming into the nearest wall.

lol. I did the very same thing [modding ME2 to make protection pointless] and it did make it alot more fun.

Insanity was basically adding armor and shields to EVERYTHING even Varren.

However you should be able to pull/lift/throw/singularity someone regardless if the shield/armor is up or not.

When I played insanity I seriously thought to myself "Really armor on EVERYTHING? Husks and Varren? This is pretty stupid" so I dropped to Hardcore after I finished my insanity run.

I don't read about lore here; only someone who's feeling frustrated for not being the ME1 biotic god when playing ME2 on Insanity. The OP is talking about gameplay and difficulty levels - not lore.

And you've said it yourself: Gameplay >>>> Lore. 

First im not saying that i agree with OP views, just that it is lore breaking. Just as they broke the lore with the heatsink thing (Also a gameplay bettering lore breaking improvement)

seccondly it's not the only post he made and some were on lore breaking (just not thst one )

[dreman9999]

Warheadz wrote...

They should just make Biotics fun again. In ME1 you actually felt slightly powerful... But in ME2 the powers are nothing more than a little toy. The opportunities to use the powers eficciently are few, as most of the time the enemies have low enough health that it's just quicker to shoot 'em.

.....What setting are you playing on?They are never easier to shot for an adept and you can kill groups with warp bomb...Learn to us it.
And if you want know why protection is better it because :1. The tech from Geth Barrier is use in mass in ME2 with protection.
2. The adepts powers in ME1 was overpowered. It was boring because nothing can challange you.

[Exolyps]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Exolyps wrote...

How I can see to fix this is that shields/armor reduces the effectiveness of the biotic power.

So push someone with an armor on and instead of a 700N effect you manage get a 400N effect.
Lift someone with a shield and the duration is reduced. (The shield absorbs the power over time and thus reduces the time it is effective)

That still allows an Adept - without weapons, squadmates and only one point in Pull or Throw - to take on 3 YMIRs and beat them to death without taking any damage.

MELTOR13 wrote...

Exolyps wrote...

How I can see to fix this is that shields/armor reduces the effectiveness of the biotic power.

So push someone with an armor on and instead of a 700N effect you manage get a 400N effect.
Lift
someone with a shield and the duration is reduced. (The shield absorbs
the power over time and thus reduces the time it is effective)

That
would either A) be massively overpowered going back to ME1 style or
require a huge overhaul of the combat mechanics of the game. 

Throwing
someone with armor, even if the effect is lessened, would keep them
stun-locked for eternity. Same thing with Lift, all of the powers. They
would need to significantly increase the cooldowns for powers, which
would kill the gameplay. 

You guys are right, without a overhaul in some way it'd not work. Having a 2 sec CD  (after mods and stuffs) push that'd push things, even armored around would indeed be a bit powerful.

But then again, as things are now, it was silly weak in my oppinion. Saw no point in having singulary avaible for example as I feelt other classes (in my case sentinel) had better alternatives. To be honest, I was cool with the ME1 CD, but then again, I rarely used my biotics there and just gunned everything down. Using it way more now.

Either way, making biotics a bit stronger (and as far as I can recall, they have already comfirmed that they will do that) is needed.